Author Topic: I give up  (Read 6463 times)

Offline rigpapa

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Re: I give up
« Reply #15 on: August 06, 2018, 09:12:29 pm »
@rigpapa

WWN = World Weather N??

Works With Nest, it's Vera's own plugin for official Nest integration.
Author of Reactor, DelayLight, SiteSensor, Rachio, Deus Ex Machina II, Intesis WMP Gateway, Auto Virtual Thermostat and VirtualSensor plugins. Vera Plus w/100+ Z-wave devices. Vera3 sandbox.

Offline ninkasi

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Re: I give up
« Reply #16 on: August 06, 2018, 09:17:15 pm »
Guess I'll start by putting a battery in it and excluding or powering up a device not powered ATM but excluding and re-including devices is a pain as I not only have to drag my Vera all over the house, garage and yard with Ethernet in tow, I have open the plastic box containing the FortrezZ MIMO pump control relays and climb ladders to access the Garage Switch and Christmas Lights Switch. Then all scenes and plugins for these  devices need to be re-done.

Quite the undertaking and who knows if it'll work and if it does, how long. I should not have to do this much maintenance as this is supposed to simplify my life, not complicate it and add additional work to it.

Agree it's a total pain - for me fortunately it was only the two devices and associated scenes, but even then it did require a ladder and time. Way back when I used to use a power lead and an ethernet to wifi adapter to enable me to bring the Vera close to the devices when pairing - maybe that might be something to think about for you? But yeah, definitely I'd just start with the battery - it's possible if your other devices are some distance away that they are relying somehow on the motion sensor to be part of the greater Zwave network.....
Home Automation veteran. Rolled own, then MisterHouse and X10, now Vera - mysensor arduino and ESP8266 network - zwave lights, locks, switches - milights - yeelights - google home(s) - Broadlink RM - raspberry pi(s) with various scripts for power and weather station - Logitech Harmony - Imperihome

Offline ninkasi

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Re: I give up
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2018, 09:25:42 pm »
...oh, and of course, I'd see if you can still operate those devices that are showing as 'can't be detected' - if so, then I reckon it's a network error. You might also be able to use some of this (http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/ZWave_Debugging) to find out what the issue is and fix it that way, or try to force (it's supposed to run automatically now) a 'heal network' using Altui or via these steps (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,34413.msg276593.html#msg276593) if you want to get your geek on. Note that after starting a network heal it can take ages (ie many hours) for it to finish.
Home Automation veteran. Rolled own, then MisterHouse and X10, now Vera - mysensor arduino and ESP8266 network - zwave lights, locks, switches - milights - yeelights - google home(s) - Broadlink RM - raspberry pi(s) with various scripts for power and weather station - Logitech Harmony - Imperihome

Offline kigmatzomat

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Re: I give up
« Reply #18 on: August 07, 2018, 12:07:53 am »
Guess I'll start by putting a battery in it and excluding or powering up a device not powered ATM but excluding and re-including devices is a pain as I not only have to drag my Vera all over the house, garage and yard with Ethernet in tow, I have open the plastic box containing the FortrezZ MIMO pump control relays and climb ladders to access the Garage Switch and Christmas Lights Switch. Then all scenes and plugins for these  devices need to be re-done.

One way to make your life somewhat easier is to enable the wifi gateway & DHCP on the vera with a hardcoded IP address. Then use phone/tablet connected to vera hotspot for gui inclusions/exclusions.  I use a small ups as I had no idea what run time is left on that old vera battery that's been sitting in a box.

Offline rafale77

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Re: I give up
« Reply #19 on: August 07, 2018, 04:17:24 am »
That is some very usefull input rigpapa & rafale77. Perhaps Vera devs will see this and give some thought to it. (But I doubt it)

Sadly you are right. It seems to me like the design direction of the UI is going in the complete opposite direction from anything improving stability. I have sent numerous messages to CC with only very rare signs of design improvements and instead have seen degradation.
The nightly heal for example cannot be disabled anymore. It is helpful only up until one has a solid established network. After that it is more likely to break things than anything so it should be left to the users to decide.
For devices involving child devices and for all devices in general, the ideal UI would give the user the ability to decide whether or not to add the child device or delete it, what parameter it should report and actuate, likewise it should ask the user before deleting or hiding devices. Instead of deleting a device, a prompt should come to offer to fix it and highlighting why it is invalid... Instead the vera these days creates invalid devices as I experienced with the Keen vents and the Aeotec dimmer 6 going into infinite loop reloads deleting an recreating the invalid devices and hidding them without allowing users to do anything about it. ALTUI actually helps a lot in many of these deficiencies but aren't we all puzzled that 3rd party plugins in general work better than the native ones (ALTHUE, PLEG or Rigpapa's plugins for example?).

One other area of instability is I believe the network error handling. When a device is starting to fail and sends garbage or errors back to the vera, I suspect the vera only does a luup reload. I would prefer it sends a excerpt of the log or sends an alert instead of a luup reload. All these would need to be optional.
The source of intermittent lag in the zwave network is due to the command queuing in the zwave stack. This is another area needing some improvements and is the reason for missed sensor status updates and lag in command executions. I don't believe the system has been stress tested. Try sending 25 commands within 1 sec and see what happens. I do this quite often and can see the vera get bogged down while other controllers send all the commands without waiting for ack response.
openLuup (97 devices, 134 scenes, 20 apps) controlling HomeAss + VeraPlus (138 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 205 devices, 20 scenes , 2 app) Bridged to Homekit and Alexa. VeraPlus ExtRooted!

Offline Sammy2

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Re: I give up
« Reply #20 on: August 07, 2018, 01:48:49 pm »
Guess I'll start by putting a battery in it and excluding or powering up a device not powered ATM but excluding and re-including devices is a pain as I not only have to drag my Vera all over the house, garage and yard with Ethernet in tow, I have open the plastic box containing the FortrezZ MIMO pump control relays and climb ladders to access the Garage Switch and Christmas Lights Switch. Then all scenes and plugins for these  devices need to be re-done.

One way to make your life somewhat easier is to enable the wifi gateway & DHCP on the vera with a hardcoded IP address. Then use phone/tablet connected to vera hotspot for gui inclusions/exclusions.  I use a small ups as I had no idea what run time is left on that old vera battery that's been sitting in a box.

Why would I want yet another WiFi network in my house for people to connect to? I do have my Vera with a Static IP address set in my Router. It is my understanding that the Z-Wave Controller needs to be near any device being included, not my phone but is this not the case if one connects one's phone to the Vera's WiFi network and then use the phone to include the device?

Offline Sammy2

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Re: I give up
« Reply #21 on: August 07, 2018, 01:54:06 pm »
Guess I'll start by putting a battery in it and excluding or powering up a device not powered ATM but excluding and re-including devices is a pain as I not only have to drag my Vera all over the house, garage and yard with Ethernet in tow, I have open the plastic box containing the FortrezZ MIMO pump control relays and climb ladders to access the Garage Switch and Christmas Lights Switch. Then all scenes and plugins for these  devices need to be re-done.

Quite the undertaking and who knows if it'll work and if it does, how long. I should not have to do this much maintenance as this is supposed to simplify my life, not complicate it and add additional work to it.

Agree it's a total pain - for me fortunately it was only the two devices and associated scenes, but even then it did require a ladder and time. Way back when I used to use a power lead and an ethernet to wifi adapter to enable me to bring the Vera close to the devices when pairing - maybe that might be something to think about for you? But yeah, definitely I'd just start with the battery - it's possible if your other devices are some distance away that they are relying somehow on the motion sensor to be part of the greater Zwave network.....

Okay. This is what I've done thus far..

I excluded the Motion Sensor and power-cycled the Garage Door Opener Relay. I the re-included the Motion Sensor but I think I chose the wrong model. It paired but said it was a AEON not a Zooz so it is not reliably connected. OTOH, the Garage Door Relay is happy and the near-by Christmas Lights in-box switch is as well. Issues with my Pool Pumps seem to have gone away too but that was always intermittent so time will tell if it comes back. Things are looking up!

Offline Giddy

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Re: I give up
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 09:49:44 pm »
I the re-included the Motion Sensor but I think I chose the wrong model. It paired but said it was a AEON not a Zooz so it is not reliably connected.

The above comment encapsulates the core of the issues. You say you chose the wrong model but I ask why on earth were you asked to choose a model in the first place? You shouldn't be asked to choose a make, a model or any such thing. The core of the ZWave protocol means that when the embedded ZWave chip in the Vera includes a new device, the muanufacturer code, the make and model of the specific device that has been added becomes available to the Vera software. These codes are unambiguous and unique to the device. Vera should therefore know exactly what device has been added, who made it, and exactly what capabilities it has. Its right there in the protocol and always has been. A couple of dozen lines of code is all it takes.

If you add a device Vera can access that device's capabilities and embedded components by asking the device simple questions about itself. Are you a basic switch (on / off), a multi-level switch (dimmer / blind controller), a colour changing switch (RGB / RGBW), a binary sensor (movement, moisture etc), a multi-level switch (temperature, UV), and are you battery powered etc? Also, how many embedded components have you got, ie are you a double light switch or a single light switch? All simple stuff, even if ZWave makes it a little more convoluted than it needs to be at a messaging level.

With the above info immediately available directly from the device when it is included, there should be absolutely no need to ask the user to select a device type, make model or any such thing. Additionally there should be no need to wait for Vera to release new firmware to support the basic features of any new zwave device, unless that device contains manufacturer specific command classes and even then all of the other device capabilities should work immediately.

So how do I know this?

I walked away 2 years ago after a FW updated bricked my Vera and support kindly offered to sell me a full price replacement. It was the final straw and forced me to make some difficult decisions. Years of reboots, chlunky scripting, and out of contol device and network management was written off. I looked around for a replacement and it just so happened that the ZWave protocol was released to the public. I had a play with witing some code and was amazed how simple it was to talk to ZWave devices. Tell them to turn on, off, up, down, and get status information from sensors etc. So I wrote me own ZWave controller which does pretty much everything that Vera does but it does it 24/7 without any restarts, delays etc.

ZWave as a protocol has some significant flaws and the public documentation is pretty bad (incomplete) and some of these flaws are things that the application designer (Vera etc) cannot necessarily overcome as they are inate to the chip level communications. However as a one man band building an app from scratch to control a ZWave network I can tell you that instability is not something that you should expect or tollerate. Devices and their underlying components are either included in the network or they are not. Included devices are stored on the ZWave chip itself while the app simply maintains metadata about the included devices. As such the devices shouldn't appear or disappear. They can be included or excluded. They can change state. They can become non-communicardo. But they should never disappear unless the user wants them to be hidden.

I share this info with you not because I think most of you will be interested in building your own, and not because I want you to give up on Vera, and not because I want you to use any other system. I give you this information to help ask Vera the questions that need to be asked about the core of their product design. You can put lipstick on a pig but its still a pig. Likewise if Vera keeps building layers of fluffy stuff on top of the core design issues then reliability, stability and usability are only to be found in the marketing documents.

Years on all the same issues exist. I glad a chose to take a different path but that is not an option for everybody. For the person who doesn't like reading about other people's problems, I'm a little confused as to why you come to a forum like this. That is exactly the purpose of a forum, ie to talk about problems, discuss ideas, seek help and make enough noise that product development takes note and prioritises core issues above fluffy new marketable features.
« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 02:27:06 am by Giddy »

Offline randya

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Re: I give up
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 10:32:04 pm »
I wanted to through my 2 cents in also.  I have had Vera for, I don't know, 10 years??  I started with the Vera2.  I changed every switch in my house to Leviton switches, fan controllers, scene controllers, dimmers.  I also had aeon labs door/ window sensors and schlage locks.  As you can tell by my apparent "newbie" title on the left, I generally don't do as much with forums, or anything too complex like most of you.  So I would only occasionally come to the forum and look something up or get a vibe for what is going on in the community.  I think the only custom code I needed back in the day was the "isnight()" function when scenes didn't have the ability to tell if it was day or night yet.  So eventually I "upgraded" to a vera lite and also eventually to UI7.  I have been moderately happy with being able to open a gate and have a light turn on or use the phone app to do something.  But the point I want to echo, that I believe most of you have also, is I have never been EXCITED about vera, and I want to be!.  The UI has always been lacking and therefore frustrating.  Case in point: how old is UI7 now?  where is UI8?  What is UI8?  is there ever going to be a UI8?  It is hard to showoff an automated home to non-techie when those questions we can't answer about customizing the interface. it just doesn't look like anything new (can i customize the dashboard?  what if I don't want to see those alerts?).  I recently moved, and have a started setting up new scenes and with new tech that wasn't out 10 years ago like Alexa, Harmony hub, arduinos, etc etc. I have started getting new devices and trying to get them to work in vera.  On one level I am surprised that it basically works, dare I say easily.  I have solar panels and a pool in my new place i didn't have in the old place.  I put an aeotec home energy monitor on the electrical panel to meter what I make and use.  So it was easy to get the device added to vera but hard to do anything useful with it.  Ideally I want a graph of solar production and then nighttime energy use.  Maybe that is beyond vera, I got do it outside vera but where is the database?  oh, I need a plugin for that.  That kinda surprises me.  We live in a data centric world now.  They have an energy section for vera but you have to share your data.  I really don't want to do that just to total up some numbers.    I now also have a nest.  The nest was easy to integrate as installing a plugin.  How awesome!  oh, and it looks like crap in the interface. I really don't want to see the WWN dummy device.  I don't want to see the zwave extender device either.  So we have to resort to what I call old school tricky in putting things in fake rooms to hide them.  And speaking of rooms, I can't have a ceiling fan in more than one room?  I have to name it something like fan1 of BR1, and fan2 for BR2?  And...We really, after all these years, can't change an icon for a switch?  Not every switch is a light.  So like the original post on this thread I too feel like giving up.  I have a vera plus I just got from a friend and it is (should be) an upgrade from my vera lite but reading the forums so many people have had issues with the vera plus, so I am hesitant.  But what I am thinking of doing, and looking for your opinion on, is doing the upgrade to vera plus but only for the devices.  I am looking at Home Assistant and their new LoveLace UI.  And I can run it in docker.  There are always pros and cons to everything and i feel bad for leaving (partially leaving) vera.  The phone app is ok (hated the period when I would get their ads for verasecure), integration with Alexa was good (I jumped on the beta on that and loved it from day one).  But the UI is so bad (by today's standards) and not improving.  How else is using Home Assistant ?  What do you like / not like about it?

and sorry if I rambled or went in to many directions... just agreeing with what I thought i read that vera works (mostly) but are falling behind quickly and IMO a lot has to do with the UI.

Offline shapshere

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Re: I give up
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2018, 10:25:07 am »
Very well said!


I wanted to through my 2 cents in also.  I have had Vera for, I don't know, 10 years??  I started with the Vera2.  I changed every switch in my house to Leviton switches, fan controllers, scene controllers, dimmers.  I also had aeon labs door/ window sensors and schlage locks.  As you can tell by my apparent "newbie" title on the left, I generally don't do as much with forums, or anything too complex like most of you.  So I would only occasionally come to the forum and look something up or get a vibe for what is going on in the community.  I think the only custom code I needed back in the day was the "isnight()" function when scenes didn't have the ability to tell if it was day or night yet.  So eventually I "upgraded" to a vera lite and also eventually to UI7.  I have been moderately happy with being able to open a gate and have a light turn on or use the phone app to do something.  But the point I want to echo, that I believe most of you have also, is I have never been EXCITED about vera, and I want to be!.  The UI has always been lacking and therefore frustrating.  Case in point: how old is UI7 now?  where is UI8?  What is UI8?  is there ever going to be a UI8?  It is hard to showoff an automated home to non-techie when those questions we can't answer about customizing the interface. it just doesn't look like anything new (can i customize the dashboard?  what if I don't want to see those alerts?).  I recently moved, and have a started setting up new scenes and with new tech that wasn't out 10 years ago like Alexa, Harmony hub, arduinos, etc etc. I have started getting new devices and trying to get them to work in vera.  On one level I am surprised that it basically works, dare I say easily.  I have solar panels and a pool in my new place i didn't have in the old place.  I put an aeotec home energy monitor on the electrical panel to meter what I make and use.  So it was easy to get the device added to vera but hard to do anything useful with it.  Ideally I want a graph of solar production and then nighttime energy use.  Maybe that is beyond vera, I got do it outside vera but where is the database?  oh, I need a plugin for that.  That kinda surprises me.  We live in a data centric world now.  They have an energy section for vera but you have to share your data.  I really don't want to do that just to total up some numbers.    I now also have a nest.  The nest was easy to integrate as installing a plugin.  How awesome!  oh, and it looks like crap in the interface. I really don't want to see the WWN dummy device.  I don't want to see the zwave extender device either.  So we have to resort to what I call old school tricky in putting things in fake rooms to hide them.  And speaking of rooms, I can't have a ceiling fan in more than one room?  I have to name it something like fan1 of BR1, and fan2 for BR2?  And...We really, after all these years, can't change an icon for a switch?  Not every switch is a light.  So like the original post on this thread I too feel like giving up.  I have a vera plus I just got from a friend and it is (should be) an upgrade from my vera lite but reading the forums so many people have had issues with the vera plus, so I am hesitant.  But what I am thinking of doing, and looking for your opinion on, is doing the upgrade to vera plus but only for the devices.  I am looking at Home Assistant and their new LoveLace UI.  And I can run it in docker.  There are always pros and cons to everything and i feel bad for leaving (partially leaving) vera.  The phone app is ok (hated the period when I would get their ads for verasecure), integration with Alexa was good (I jumped on the beta on that and loved it from day one).  But the UI is so bad (by today's standards) and not improving.  How else is using Home Assistant ?  What do you like / not like about it?

and sorry if I rambled or went in to many directions... just agreeing with what I thought i read that vera works (mostly) but are falling behind quickly and IMO a lot has to do with the UI.

Offline hellovn

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Re: I give up
« Reply #25 on: August 08, 2018, 11:49:54 am »
Here is my journey with Vera Control.

1. I bought a house in 2011 and recognized it has a bunch of wires for the security system. The wires looked ugly so I decided I am going to install a DSC security alarm by myself. I am cheap and I do not want to pay any monthly subscription fee for the security company. It took me a few months to install a DSC system and it worked great.

2. As a software engineer, when reading an article, I found out that I could control my DSC security alarm through my phone and automate it. A device with no monthly fee and a reasonable price is a must for me so I decided to buy a Veralite and an Envisalink 3.

3. After automating my DSC alarm, I started to buy some other z-devices for my house: my front door lock, cameras, my garage door, light switches, bathroom fans, thermostats, fans...

4. More and more, I am addicted to automate everything in my house. I spent hours and hours and try to automate everything. That was when I automated my Fireplace, my Rangehood, my water shutoff valve, my flood sensors...

5. After 2 years of service, I found out that my Veralite is a bit sluggish so I bought a VeraEdge. The upgrade was seamless and I did not have to do the migration from scratch. I am using my Veralite to do some scenes that do not need any z-wave devices. Unluckily, the Veraedge had a problem after a year so I have to upgrade to a Veraplus under warranty. This upgrade was also seamless. I just had a few warning "Can't detect device" but everything was working fine.

6. Sometimes I forget to play with my Veraplus for a few months and everything in my house was working fine with PLEG automation. However, being addicted to automation, I keep trying to tweak my system everyday :D.

7. I would love to have IFTTT and Google Home integration for my Veraplus. However, when trying to use Openhab as a bridge between IFTTT (My Ring Doorbell motion sensor) and my Veraplus, I never see a need for IFTTT as the notification events were very slow. Some events take up to 1 hour to be triggered. It is just nice to have.

8. In summary, being cheap and staying away from paying too much money is one of the main reasons I stay with Vera. Another example is I could buy a nest thermostat for 325$ but I bought 3 2gig ct100 for the same price. More importantly, my veraplus has been rock solid in the last 2 years. Sometimes, I have to unpair a device and pair it again but this is very rare. My LUUP may restart once every 2 days but all my scenes are handled so that It will try again after 5 minutes if the first one failed.

9. I plan to buy a new VeraSecure when my Veraplus could not handle with my growing devices :).

Here are a few graphs of my current system :)



« Last Edit: August 08, 2018, 11:54:06 am by hellovn »

Offline hellovn

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Re: I give up
« Reply #26 on: August 08, 2018, 11:51:16 am »
Here is my journey with Vera Control.

1. I bought a house in 2011 and recognized it has a bunch of wires for the security system. The wires looked ugly so I decided I am going to install a DSC security alarm by myself. I am cheap and I do not want to pay any monthly subscription fee for the security company. It took me a few months to install a DSC and it worked great.

2. As a software engineer, when reading an article, I found out that I could control my DSC security alarm through my phone and automate it. A device with no monthly fee and a reasonable price is a must for me so I decided to buy a Veralite and an Envisalink 3.

3. After automating my DSC alarm, I started to buy some other z-devices for my house: my front door lock, cameras, my garage door, light switches, bathroom fans, thermostats, fans...

4. More and more, I am addicted to automate everything in my house. I spent hours and hours and try to automate everything. That was when I automated my Fireplace, my Rangehood, my water shutoff valve, my flood sensors...

5. After 2 years of service, I found out that my Veralite is a bit sluggish so I bought a VeraEdge. The upgrade was seamless and I did not have to do the migration from scratch. I am using my Veralite to do some scenes that do not need any z-wave devices. Unluckily, the Veraedge had a problem after a year so I have to upgrade to a Veraplus under warranty. This upgrade was also seamless. I just had a few warning "Can't detect device" but everything was working fine.

6. Sometimes I forget to play with my Veraplus for a few months and everything in my house was working fine with PLEG automation. However, being addicted to automation, I keep trying to tweak my system everyday :D.

7. I would love to have IFTTT and Google Home integration for my Veraplus. However, when trying to use Openhab as a bridge between IFTTT (My Ring Doorbell motion sensor) and my Veraplus, I never see a need for IFTTT as the notification events were very slow. Some events take up to 1 hour to be triggered. It is just nice to have.

8. In summary, being cheap and staying away from paying too much money is one of the main reasons I stay with Vera. Another example is I could buy a nest thermostat for 325$ but I bought 3 2gig ct100 for the same price. More importantly, my veraplus has been rock solid in the last 2 years. Sometimes, I have to unpair a device and pair it again but this is very rare. My LUUP may restart once every 2 days but all my scenes are handled so that It will try again after 5 minutes if the first one failed.

Here are a few graphs of my current system :)

A few more graphs:


Offline randya

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Re: I give up
« Reply #27 on: August 08, 2018, 01:20:13 pm »
How are you collecting data over time (database?) ?
What are you using for the graphs?  is that AltUI? Something else?




Offline hellovn

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Re: I give up
« Reply #28 on: August 08, 2018, 11:06:54 pm »
How are you collecting data over time (database?) ?
What are you using for the graphs?  is that AltUI? Something else?

I mount the log folder to my raspberry pi. After that, I use Telegraf + InfluxDB to parse and store my log information into the database. Finally, I use Grafana to display the data from InfluxDB. I use this approach as I don't want to install another plugin and put more stress on my Veraplus :). Another advantage is I could visualize everything that is in Vera log.

Offline Sammy2

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Re: I give up
« Reply #29 on: August 09, 2018, 01:41:18 pm »
Guess I'll start by putting a battery in it and excluding or powering up a device not powered ATM but excluding and re-including devices is a pain as I not only have to drag my Vera all over the house, garage and yard with Ethernet in tow, I have open the plastic box containing the FortrezZ MIMO pump control relays and climb ladders to access the Garage Switch and Christmas Lights Switch. Then all scenes and plugins for these  devices need to be re-done.

Quite the undertaking and who knows if it'll work and if it does, how long. I should not have to do this much maintenance as this is supposed to simplify my life, not complicate it and add additional work to it.

Agree it's a total pain - for me fortunately it was only the two devices and associated scenes, but even then it did require a ladder and time. Way back when I used to use a power lead and an ethernet to wifi adapter to enable me to bring the Vera close to the devices when pairing - maybe that might be something to think about for you? But yeah, definitely I'd just start with the battery - it's possible if your other devices are some distance away that they are relying somehow on the motion sensor to be part of the greater Zwave network.....

Okay. This is what I've done thus far..

I excluded the Motion Sensor and power-cycled the Garage Door Opener Relay. I the re-included the Motion Sensor but I think I chose the wrong model. It paired but said it was a AEON not a Zooz so it is not reliably connected. OTOH, the Garage Door Relay is happy and the near-by Christmas Lights in-box switch is as well. Issues with my Pool Pumps seem to have gone away too but that was always intermittent so time will tell if it comes back. Things are looking up!


Issues with my pumps have returned but the Garage Switch and Christmas Lights have been stable for a couple of days now. That said, my back patio lights are getting flaky again. Come on Vera! This just needs to work reliably. Is that too much to ask?