Author Topic: MIOS Acquisition  (Read 32160 times)

Offline Don Phillips

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #180 on: September 12, 2018, 08:25:26 pm »
I strongly echo - the cost of the controller is not an issue.  An easy to use UI that works is what we need.

My Vera 3 is still going strong. The AltHue plug-in I installed tonight - flawless. Within minutes of installing it, it was controlling my 1 bulb (the other 3 are to come when I have time). Did not even try the Hue or Hue 2 plug-ins since this forum warned me it is broken. I was worried I would spend hours trying to get everything - but nope, working within minutes on the first try.
Vera 3, 1.7.1030, CT101, Everspring motion sensor, GE/Jasco switch, Leviton outlet, AeonLabs sensor, NuTone garage door, Blue Iris, Sricam SP011, iPhone locator, APCUPSD, VeraMate, VeraAlerts, PLEG, House Modes, Countdown Timer, DVR, Virtual/Multi Switch, Weatherunderground, LB60Z-1 bulb, Hue, Alexa

Offline wilme2

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #181 on: September 13, 2018, 05:40:28 pm »
I am betting that you will find no one who has stuck with Vera will complain about the cost of the box. That?s not the issue. Seriously, every company that goes cheap on hardware punishes it?s users unnecessarily. The Home Automation market isn?t broke college students, it?s made up of people who can pay for the ability to control their homes.

Well said, and some of the statements here by Melih along this line of hardware cost concern me. 

When it was finally time for me to upgrade to UI7 back in January I went ahead and bought a VeraSecure instead of upgrading my Vera3.  Why?  Because I knew I would spend several days on the migration, and the risk that the Vera3 hardware was not robust enough to do everything I wanted under UI7 was not worth saving the $299 price of the VeraSecure.

(I actually planned ahead for the upgrade and got a Black Friday sale price - although truly I would have paid full price had it not been for the sale).
Long Live UI5!  (OK finally made the switch to UI7 in January 2018, and am pretty happy....)

Offline melih

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #182 on: September 13, 2018, 06:43:19 pm »
I am betting that you will find no one who has stuck with Vera will complain about the cost of the box. That?s not the issue. Seriously, every company that goes cheap on hardware punishes it?s users unnecessarily. The Home Automation market isn?t broke college students, it?s made up of people who can pay for the ability to control their homes.

Well said, and some of the statements here by Melih along this line of hardware cost concern me. 

When it was finally time for me to upgrade to UI7 back in January I went ahead and bought a VeraSecure instead of upgrading my Vera3.  Why?  Because I knew I would spend several days on the migration, and the risk that the Vera3 hardware was not robust enough to do everything I wanted under UI7 was not worth saving the $299 price of the VeraSecure.

(I actually planned ahead for the upgrade and got a Black Friday sale price - although truly I would have paid full price had it not been for the sale).

Can someone explain what is wrong with making a better, faster, smaller more stable product and do so cheaper? These are basic pillars of improvements in technology! You don't see Computers getting bigger, slower and more expensive do you??

Anyone who wants to pay the difference between old price and new price can make a donation to their favorite charity!

Offline lastmacuser

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #183 on: September 13, 2018, 06:52:25 pm »
I am betting that you will find no one who has stuck with Vera will complain about the cost of the box. That?s not the issue. Seriously, every company that goes cheap on hardware punishes it?s users unnecessarily. The Home Automation market isn?t broke college students, it?s made up of people who can pay for the ability to control their homes.

Well said, and some of the statements here by Melih along this line of hardware cost concern me. 

When it was finally time for me to upgrade to UI7 back in January I went ahead and bought a VeraSecure instead of upgrading my Vera3.  Why?  Because I knew I would spend several days on the migration, and the risk that the Vera3 hardware was not robust enough to do everything I wanted under UI7 was not worth saving the $299 price of the VeraSecure.

(I actually planned ahead for the upgrade and got a Black Friday sale price - although truly I would have paid full price had it not been for the sale).

Can someone explain what is wrong with making a better, faster, smaller more stable product and do so cheaper? These are basic pillars of improvements in technology! You don't see Computers getting bigger, slower and more expensive do you??

Anyone who wants to pay the difference between old price and new price can make a donation to their favorite charity!

I think everybody would go crazy with better, faster, smaller, more stable and cheaper. Unfortunately for a lot of people on this board, it has been promised a million times and has never come to fruition.

Offline Forzaalfa

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #184 on: September 14, 2018, 03:10:53 am »
One factor i haven't seen metioned is the lifespan of the new controllers.
This is usually a big downside to the cheaper sort of consumer electronics, where you almost have to count in a replacement after 1-2 years. I would always go for the more expensive alternative if it promised a longer usable life.

HA controllers usually have a protected life on some shelf indoors, and consdering the reasonably low performance requirements, it should be no problem to keep it running for 5-10 years.

Not saying this is a problem for Vera or eZLO, i' just interested in your thougts on it.
Vera Plus - RFXtrx433e

Offline korttoma

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #185 on: September 14, 2018, 03:44:47 am »
@Melih I think that some of us are concerned that you will have trouble making enough money to continue software development if you start selling the controllers to cheep.

If you have now doubled the development resources you will have to make double the profit of each sold device.

What people are saying is that if you have good "stable" controller(s) to sell you will not have to keep the price unnecessary low to be able to sell devices anyway.
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Offline Thorden

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #186 on: September 14, 2018, 03:51:36 am »
@Melih I think that some of us are concerned that you will have trouble making enough money to continue software development if you start selling the controllers to cheep.

If you have now doubled the development resources you will have to make double the profit of each sold device.

What people are saying is that if you have good "stable" controller(s) to sell you will not have to keep the price unnecessary low to be able to sell devices anyway.

That is a very valid point.

On the other hand, if they succeed in creating better, faster, smaller, more stable and cheaper, they will increase market share. This market is going to be huge going forward, so the loss in margin can easily be compensated with volume. And that is probably the right way to go if you want to rule the world. Of course, both volume and high margin is even better, but this is probably not the right kind of market for that, besides it is very hard to achieve. 

Offline melih

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #187 on: September 14, 2018, 04:06:48 am »
One factor i haven't seen metioned is the lifespan of the new controllers.
This is usually a big downside to the cheaper sort of consumer electronics, where you almost have to count in a replacement after 1-2 years. I would always go for the more expensive alternative if it promised a longer usable life.

HA controllers usually have a protected life on some shelf indoors, and consdering the reasonably low performance requirements, it should be no problem to keep it running for 5-10 years.

Not saying this is a problem for Vera or eZLO, i' just interested in your thougts on it.

Because our business model is NOT making money from hardware, its our interest to give you something that is rock solid, cost effective, fast and lasts a long time!

Offline melih

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #188 on: September 14, 2018, 04:08:52 am »
@Melih I think that some of us are concerned that you will have trouble making enough money to continue software development if you start selling the controllers to cheep.

If you have now doubled the development resources you will have to make double the profit of each sold device.

What people are saying is that if you have good "stable" controller(s) to sell you will not have to keep the price unnecessary low to be able to sell devices anyway.

Thank you, I think the business model of making money from hardware will make less money in the long run as a controller provider. Its the wrong business model.

Offline Sender

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #189 on: September 14, 2018, 04:13:03 am »
I think that if you do not havce a complete working eco system you will fail. Meaning that currently the hardware is fine and if you choose a model to make your software "hardware undependable" this will introduce all other kinds of problems and issues.
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Offline cswroe

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #190 on: September 14, 2018, 07:38:21 am »
It would be best to fix the pile you have now instead of trying to be the next Elon.

Although, underpowered in the grand scheme of things, it was more than adequate when UI5 and earlier was deployed. It wasn't until recent years there was a disastrous shift in philosophy that lead to the demise of Vera. Just fixing that mess sould be Paramount above all else. Selling a new product when the current base is vocal about the problems of the current product line is not reassuring to potential buyers.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 07:44:42 am by cswroe »

Offline Matsohl

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #191 on: September 14, 2018, 01:10:45 pm »
Thank you, I think the business model of making money from hardware will make less money in the long run as a controller provider. Its the wrong business model.

Unfortunately I think you're right. It will be very difficult to build a business model based on just selling hardware a few couple of times, this will not provide a stable income for the company and It's the same for apps. The solution, of course, is to have a service model connected that provides a stable income to the company and developers.
I bought a Vera to stay away from monthly or yearly fees but realized that this model just provides us with insufficient and unstable updates, slow inclusion of new hardware, probably due to lack of resources (although the support is +1).
I'm well in to the DIY with Pi's and Ardunio's but for my home I, and family :), want a stable system that dosen't need a lot of attention and fixing all the time. But there are some important things to consider: stability, security, local and friendly. Then, I can also consider a service model with reasonable fees.
« Last Edit: September 14, 2018, 01:21:07 pm by Matsohl »
Vera Plus and Vera Edge with (Hue, Fibaro, Qubino, IKEA, Nexa, Sonos, Telldus, Sensative, Imperihome etc.) and Arduino, ESP8266

Offline wilme2

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #192 on: September 14, 2018, 03:12:51 pm »
Then, I can also consider a service model with reasonable fees.

I completely agree.  But lots of people on this forum are die-hard set against monthly fees.  If somehow the switch to a modest monthly fee makes Vera better, stronger, faster, I am open it to...
Long Live UI5!  (OK finally made the switch to UI7 in January 2018, and am pretty happy....)

Offline melih

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #193 on: September 14, 2018, 03:30:34 pm »
I think that if you do not havce a complete working eco system you will fail. Meaning that currently the hardware is fine and if you choose a model to make your software "hardware undependable" this will introduce all other kinds of problems and issues.

In any system if you assume you will make one part of it crap, of course its bound to fail. I don't understand why you are making the assumption that hardware will be crap?

Offline intveltr

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Re: MIOS Acquisition
« Reply #194 on: September 15, 2018, 04:10:05 am »
Then, I can also consider a service model with reasonable fees.

I completely agree.  But lots of people on this forum are die-hard set against monthly fees.  If somehow the switch to a modest monthly fee makes Vera better, stronger, faster, I am open it to...

Agreed, with one great big giant "but": as long as having a monthly fee doesn't come with a requirement for Vera to be connected to the Internet at all times, or (worse) shifting to a partly cloud based service.  Vera runs my home and holds very sensitive data, I do not want anyone to mess with that box.  So it lives in utter isolation.
HomeWave is available in the App Store!  Turn your iPhone/iPad into an easy-to-use remote control for Vera.