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Author Topic: So....what happened to the updates?  (Read 5776 times)

Offline mwbehr

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So....what happened to the updates?
« on: April 30, 2012, 05:18:50 pm »
I was starting to think MCV was getting their act together with the release of UI5. Not because it was a great bug-free release (obviously it wasn't), but because they were finally starting to churn out regular updates. However, I haven't seen a beta for public or private release in almost a month and a half. With all the issues still being reported, especially with Insteon devices, I find this to be a bit disheartening.

Now I can understand if you basically have it "torn apart" and don't want to waste time trying to build it for a release, but if there is some kind of major working going on behind the scenes, could you at least please update the changelog with some kind of "internal" release notes.

Also, it seems like Insteon compatibility, and particularly speed, have been completely ignored lately. I know the devices are perfectly capable of reacting virtually instantaneously just like the Zwave devices, yet for some reason this software only actuates a single device at a time with a long time delay between devices.

Offline garrettwp

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #1 on: April 30, 2012, 09:02:49 pm »
They ate pretty busy. If you look at there mantis bug tracking site, they have been going over the tickets. And an fyi, there has been a private beta release last week. I also wanted to add that insteon support on vera will be low priority for MCV as z-wave is their main focus. So the basic implementation of insteon in Vera will not see any love unless MCV makes it priority. There is another option and  a good one. User fba, has created a better implementation of insteon support for vera. Do a search on the forum for altsteon.

- Garrett
« Last Edit: May 01, 2012, 12:49:52 am by garrettwp »

Offline mwbehr

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2012, 04:46:53 pm »
Thanks for the reply. I realize it's common knowledge on these forums that Insteon support is considered "secondary" or an "added feature", however this was not the way the Vera was advertised when I purchased it. I personally don't feel that it's acceptable to claim equal support for two standards without ever fully supporting one of them and then essentially abandoning support for said standard. While this has become completely accepted over time by most, there's still a few like me lurking around that are a bit bitter about this fact.

I have, however, been following FBA's work. He's just now getting to the point of potentially supporting Vera2, which is what I'm using, so I may be attempting to use it soon. It's just sad to me, though, that an individual that's making no money on a personal project is producing a better product than the company we're paying for this device.

Again, I realize that for people that are exclusively using Zwave devices that this thread seems like an unfounded attack on the MCV staff. Realistically, most of the people that were like me and felt lied to as to the functionality of the device have moved on to other options that ACTUALLY support Insteon. I don't have the money to burn, however, and am stuck with MCV.

Offline aschwalb

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2012, 09:41:42 am »
Thanks for the reply. I realize it's common knowledge on these forums that Insteon support is considered "secondary" or an "added feature", however this was not the way the Vera was advertised when I purchased it. I personally don't feel that it's acceptable to claim equal support for two standards without ever fully supporting one of them and then essentially abandoning support for said standard. While this has become completely accepted over time by most, there's still a few like me lurking around that are a bit bitter about this fact.

I have, however, been following FBA's work. He's just now getting to the point of potentially supporting Vera2, which is what I'm using, so I may be attempting to use it soon. It's just sad to me, though, that an individual that's making no money on a personal project is producing a better product than the company we're paying for this device.

Again, I realize that for people that are exclusively using Zwave devices that this thread seems like an unfounded attack on the MCV staff. Realistically, most of the people that were like me and felt lied to as to the functionality of the device have moved on to other options that ACTUALLY support Insteon. I don't have the money to burn, however, and am stuck with MCV.

@mwbehr

Since I am getting ready to play with Insteon to control some things too far away for zwave I was curious as to the functionality that MCV advertised that is not working in Vera?  Didn't want to make any assumptions before I bought stuff... 

Offline garrettwp

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Re: Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2012, 10:19:31 am »
Thanks for the reply. I realize it's common knowledge on these forums that Insteon support is considered "secondary" or an "added feature", however this was not the way the Vera was advertised when I purchased it. I personally don't feel that it's acceptable to claim equal support for two standards without ever fully supporting one of them and then essentially abandoning support for said standard. While this has become completely accepted over time by most, there's still a few like me lurking around that are a bit bitter about this fact.

I have, however, been following FBA's work. He's just now getting to the point of potentially supporting Vera2, which is what I'm using, so I may be attempting to use it soon. It's just sad to me, though, that an individual that's making no money on a personal project is producing a better product than the company we're paying for this device.

Again, I realize that for people that are exclusively using Zwave devices that this thread seems like an unfounded attack on the MCV staff. Realistically, most of the people that were like me and felt lied to as to the functionality of the device have moved on to other options that ACTUALLY support Insteon. I don't have the money to burn, however, and am stuck with MCV.

@mwbehr

Since I am getting ready to play with Insteon to control some things too far away for zwave I was curious as to the functionality that MCV advertised that is not working in Vera?  Didn't want to make any assumptions before I bought stuff...

I am going to order some insteon stuff today for controlling ceiling fans. I will be using fba's implementation and not MCV's.

- Garrett

Offline grybrd

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2012, 12:16:45 pm »
@garrett ... why Insteon instead of z-wave .. cost???  I have fans at the lake pace that I would ike off when we leave.


Offline garrettwp

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2012, 12:35:39 pm »
The only zwave option for controlling fans is leviton and each switch is pricey. It also only controls the fan and not the light as well. I do not want to have two switches to control the fan and light. The cost would also be much more with the leviton route than if I went with insteon. I figured I would give it a try as there is the fan linc which controls both light and fan and I can use a keypad linc as well. If it does not work out. I can always return the items.

- Garrett

Offline grybrd

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2012, 01:24:39 pm »
@Garrettwp ... thanks,  let us know how it works out.

Offline mwbehr

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #8 on: May 02, 2012, 06:09:46 pm »
I don't own any of the fan modules, but I can tell you that response time for any Insteon device is quite slow (at least 5 seconds usually more like 15). Also, there's several devices they don't support at all, or get errors (I believe the fan module is one of the unsupported devices).

FBA's implementation is supposed to be much better, but I'll have to do a little more research to figure out how to run the binaries on a Vera unit as this was never clearly spelled out in his thread. Right now, his plugin is really for developers or experienced end users and not for the general public, though he's made a great deal of progress and I'm sure he'll get it to a polished finished product eventually.

Offline The-Source

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2012, 08:31:30 am »
Well the date/time problem is quite a big bug I think, because when you use time based scenes the just dont work anymore. First their was a difference of years but now im stuck at a difference of 3 days and 3 hours and 45 minutes  ???
And they dont give a answer when you post in the firmware topic.
there are only 10 types of people in the world those who understand binary and those who don't ;)

Offline Da_JoJo

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #10 on: May 06, 2012, 05:45:56 am »
There is work in progress on fixing the bugs that where found while using it in real-life situations and there is also a lot of work to do for the translation in other languages to work. As i progressed translating the MIOS operating system, it turned out not all could be translated without creating problems in the variables used and this has also risen some bugs in the debug ui which needs to be adressed. furthermore there is work on completing the new features for IR support , support for new devices that have come to the market, fine-tuning the internal gears.
z-wave producers are not that willing to send their documentation for the usage of variables used in their devices. it will allways help a lot if you could find technical documentation on the devices being used and send these to MCV. Most of the problems that are experienced with several devices are due to lack of proper technical documentation on the variables being used. Im sure everyone @ MCV do their best to fix all the problems. Probably you have noticed that their is a lot of changes in the ui and there is some added functionality and with it bugs and problems,which needs to be completed first. x10 and insteon and such is added functionality and so it will not be the main concern to make it work. Due to the nature of the protocols used by x10 and insteon its hard to support and implemend it into vera's handling of devices as it would mean that it need to be backward-compatible with older systems without ack which only slows the main z-wave down.
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
Dutch & German translator http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Special:AllPages http://support.micasaverde.com http://domotica-shop.nl

Offline mwbehr

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #11 on: May 07, 2012, 02:35:30 pm »
There is work in progress on fixing the bugs that where found while using it in real-life situations and there is also a lot of work to do for the translation in other languages to work. As i progressed translating the MIOS operating system, it turned out not all could be translated without creating problems in the variables used and this has also risen some bugs in the debug ui which needs to be adressed. furthermore there is work on completing the new features for IR support , support for new devices that have come to the market, fine-tuning the internal gears.
z-wave producers are not that willing to send their documentation for the usage of variables used in their devices. it will allways help a lot if you could find technical documentation on the devices being used and send these to MCV. Most of the problems that are experienced with several devices are due to lack of proper technical documentation on the variables being used. Im sure everyone @ MCV do their best to fix all the problems. Probably you have noticed that their is a lot of changes in the ui and there is some added functionality and with it bugs and problems,which needs to be completed first. x10 and insteon and such is added functionality and so it will not be the main concern to make it work. Due to the nature of the protocols used by x10 and insteon its hard to support and implemend it into vera's handling of devices as it would mean that it need to be backward-compatible with older systems without ack which only slows the main z-wave down.

Spoken like a zwave owner. Insteon isn't an "older system" compared to zwave, it's simply different. X10 is the old system. Insteon isn't supposed to be "added functionality", but it has been turned into that over the years.

Also, you speak to all the work that's being done by MCV (bug chasing and such). I have no doubt the work you describe is indeed being done, however what caused all these new bugs? Perhaps the "upgrade" to a mostly graphically differentiated new interface that took them months to create? I'm not saying there were no bugs before switching to UI5, but it certainly created a lot more. Why didn't MCV focus on all the problems that their customers have been complaining about rather than give the UI a graphical overhaul? I didn't see a single thread where someone had any complaint about the looks of UI, yet they put the highest priority on that revamp. Yes, they made some functional changes as well, but many would argue that these changes simply made things different, not better.

I just hope that they'll stick with UI5 now (visually speaking) and do nothing but focus on fixing problems, adding support, and maybe if there's time adding a feature or two down the road.

Offline Da_JoJo

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #12 on: May 13, 2012, 05:30:42 am »
it is not my intention to nag but the overhaul as you call it implied a total remake of the original OS not merely the looks. There is a lot of added functionality under ze hood which probably isnt much visible to the simple user.
furthermore insteon is an older system which doesnt work in mesh-environment and lacks most of the functions z-wave implies . x10 is even older as this doesnt even have ACK. but its pointless to talk about which one is better, since most users put a lot of cash in it and do not have or do not want to spend cash on new equipment. the thing is one should consider what one is buying on forehand coz the different systems do not well match. That mcv actually managed to get a lot of functionality back with the help of some good samaritans on the board here and even supports zigbee in the process is really something wurth praising.
features are being added all the time and this will bring there own bugs and stuff to sort out. the new ui5 will be enhanced in the future with more IR-support which is hard to do, also there will be more available languages.
i have yet to find a router that does all of the stuff this vera does lol
 
 
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
Dutch & German translator http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Special:AllPages http://support.micasaverde.com http://domotica-shop.nl

Offline mwbehr

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #13 on: May 16, 2012, 08:10:21 am »
it is not my intention to nag but the overhaul as you call it implied a total remake of the original OS not merely the looks. There is a lot of added functionality under ze hood which probably isnt much visible to the simple user.
furthermore insteon is an older system which doesnt work in mesh-environment and lacks most of the functions z-wave implies . x10 is even older as this doesnt even have ACK. but its pointless to talk about which one is better, since most users put a lot of cash in it and do not have or do not want to spend cash on new equipment. the thing is one should consider what one is buying on forehand coz the different systems do not well match. That mcv actually managed to get a lot of functionality back with the help of some good samaritans on the board here and even supports zigbee in the process is really something wurth praising.
features are being added all the time and this will bring there own bugs and stuff to sort out. the new ui5 will be enhanced in the future with more IR-support which is hard to do, also there will be more available languages.
i have yet to find a router that does all of the stuff this vera does lol

I'm only going to respond to your blatant ignorance of the Insteon system. It IS a mesh network (unless you're buying really really old non-RF Insteon crap). Do a little research before you make ridiculous statements. I will say, though, the Vera practically treats it like it isn't a mesh network which is part of the issue I have with MCV. Remember, you're the one who came here acting like you know what you're talking about, so I expect you to defend you statements. I don't jump on other people's threads and make outlandish claims like you unless I'm REALLY sure I know what I'm talking about.

To sum up, Z-Wave and Insteon work in very similar, but incompatible manners. They both repeat using RF (although dual-mode Insteons use power-line as well). I don't have any idea how you think that one is "older" or even all that different than the other, but that's what happens when you don't do any research like you mentioned earlier I guess. Oh, and please tell me one "function" that Z-Wave provides that Insteon doesn't since you really seem to think Z-Wave is superior for some reason (Hint: There isn't one).

I also want to point out that I'm not an Insteon "fanboy." I use both Z-Wave and Insteon. I pick the best devices from each industry and use MCV as the medium between the two. I simply wish MCV would support one just as well as it does the other, but after setting up Altsteon, they really are performing pretty similarly now.

Offline aschwalb

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Re: So....what happened to the updates?
« Reply #14 on: May 16, 2012, 01:04:57 pm »