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Author Topic: Vera does not have internal clock?  (Read 13521 times)

Offline g7t

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Vera does not have internal clock?
« on: May 01, 2009, 06:50:14 pm »
I've just read on of the prior posts (March - Sunset/Sunrise issues), that Vera does NOT have an internal clock!  Is is true?  I have hard time to believe it.  Even the simplest handheld Z-Wave controller with display has internal clock.

If it is true, that means Vera is totally dependent on Internet, so no internet no automation.  That does not seems right.  If I want to use Vera (after initially setup) somewhere else where is no internet, I am out of luck.  Or, if I do not run interent overnight to minimize risk of intrusion, my automated scenes won't execute!

Sound like a bad joke - automation without the clock.

MCV, please tell me it is not true.  For prodcut at this price not having internal clock with supercapacitor instead of battery (or even internal battery), it is incomprehensible.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2009, 11:51:33 am by g7t »

Offline zmistro

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #1 on: May 01, 2009, 07:09:47 pm »
Vera has a real time clock.
The issue people are concerned about is that it Syc with an Internet time server.
The clock is reset upon power down .
If you are concerned you can put vera on a small ups unit .
That is how I install this type of hardware.

All ( most ) router appliances work this way

Offline g7t

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #2 on: May 01, 2009, 11:32:30 pm »
Well,

my timed scenes based on timers do not work whenever I do not have internet connection (three days in row), while they work if manually triggered.  That means there is ssomething wrong with timer.

I discovered this post today  by MCV's own "cj":

_________________________________________________________________________________
Re: Sunset/sunrise issue?
« Reply #2 on: March 18, 2009, 08:32:10 am » .
   --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Vera doesn't have an internal clock so it doesn't have a time/data built in. Every time it's started time is synchronized from the internet.
If you don't have an internet connection => you won't have the time set => your scenes that are based on time (sunset/sunrise, timers) won't work.


You can set the date/time manually from Vera's CLI using date, but the Sunset/Sunrise it's based on Location->LONGITUDE / LATITUDE and this page will be displayed only if your vera has internet connection.
_______________________________________________________________________________



I need Vera as a standalone system which runs reliably whether it has internet connection or not.  Internet should be only for FW updates, remote access/messaging, once in a month time sync (although it could use my PC to get the correct time) and possible troubleshooting.  Other than that I need fully autonomous automation system.

They advertise that it consumes only 6W, but you need to add running router (20W) and running modem (20W), so my small  laptop can easily beat that with proper standalone software with no need to permanent internet.


I hope the next generation Vera will be an improvement in HW. It has a great potential, but it has to be executed right.

Offline chart321

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  • Connecting this to that and Kaboom!!!
Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2009, 09:10:13 am »
I agree.  Though it is marketed as standalone, that function is completely reliant on a internet connection.  As a stand alone system for a vacation home or remote location it has problems.  They use a OEM router with z-wave dongle as the base of the product.  So, hardware update will require another device not a firm ware upgrade.

Still they are ahead of the curve, but as a small firm it is attention to these types of details that will give them the lead ahead of the large manufactures who will be offering similar products.  The 2nd generation of these devices will learn from their mistakes, so they should work out how to fix this issues sooner than later.
My Z-Wave: 1x Vera, 1x Intermatic HA07, 4x Intermatic HA06, 4x Intermatic HA01, 4x Intermatic HA02, 4x Intermatic HA03, 1x Intermatic HA04C, 2x Hawking HRDS1, 3x Wayne Dalton WDTC-20

Offline zmistro

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2009, 10:00:37 am »
Every one of these devices in the past  and present so far are  based on a network router type platform chipset including Hawking, 4home, schlage.
Contrary to CJ there is a clock. It get sync'd with the internet. if no internet on power up it will revert to like 1999 or something and count up from there.
SO if the unit is powered up with internet and is on a ups then the time will be correct. It may drift a bit due to accuracy.


Offline g7t

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2009, 12:41:18 pm »
Hello Zmistro,

I beg to disagree, there is no internal clock which can trigger preset automation timers.  Proof is here: Last night, for the first time, I had left my internet connection live overnight and voila, all the timed scenes executed as they were suppose to.  Contrary to previous three nights when my internet and intranet connections were disconnected overnight. Nothing got executed then.

So try to set some scenes and disconnect internet, I bet none of them will get executed.  Let us know, I am immensely interested.  This standalone independent execution is an absolute must for me.

I fully agree with chart321, if MCV wants to be a leader and capture AND MAINTAIN as much of the market as possible, they need to work on their lead aggressively.  If not, I can foresee new startup who will build upon Vera's initial try and will leave them in the dust.

 

Offline zmistro

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2009, 06:42:45 pm »
I will try this ..
If this is true I have a big problem also...

Offline zmistro

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #7 on: May 02, 2009, 07:18:03 pm »
I curently have vera off the internet.

I set up a absolute event and it "activated on time"!

It could be possible that after some time Vera will revert after prolonged absensce on internet. I will let it run.

remember you cannot reboot the device. it will loose time if no internet!

Offline zmistro

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #8 on: May 03, 2009, 10:50:30 am »
I ran the test Vera turned on and off lights . Te internal clock continued. If vera is rebboted I am sure it will loose time.

Offline micasaverde

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #9 on: May 04, 2009, 10:48:04 am »
To clear the confusion, Vera does have an internal clock.  But Vera does not have an internal battery to keep the clock running without power.  So, if you power up Vera, it has the date 1999, and, using the internet, it sets the current time.  At that point, the internet connection can go down and it won't need the internet again to set the time unless you cycle power on Vera.

If you install Vera in a location without an internet connection, then when you turn Vera on, you will need to set the date manually.  You can do this now with telnet, although it's not intuitive, so we're adding a 'manually set the date/time' option to the location tab.  The clock will keep going fine unless Vera loses power, at which point it will reboot and have the time 1999 again.

You don't lose any data when Vera's power cycles because the data is stored in permanent flash rom.

I have a battery operated handheld Z-Wave remote and it works the same way.  If it loses power (ie remove the batteries), your settings are preserved, but the clock is not.  AFAIK all the Z-Wave controllers work like this.  To add the battery would substantially increase the cost of Vera, not because the battery is expensive, but because we couldn't use standard components and would have to do our own custom board.

Offline g7t

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #10 on: May 04, 2009, 11:51:13 am »
Thanks for detailed explanation, it definitely helps.

Now I am puzzled, there must be some other issue perhaps.  The Vera was NOT rebooted/restarted, but it still did not execute the preprogramed commands. 

When it was connected to the internet the commands got executed.

Will have to dig in it deeper to find culprit.

Thanks again.


Offline zmistro

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #11 on: May 04, 2009, 11:59:56 am »
Just to let you know the only scene I had tried was a event to turn on a light at 8Pm
I have not tried to do anything else.

What time does your logs report? Mine are showing current time/date.
Vera has not had internet since sat.

Offline JimMac

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #12 on: May 04, 2009, 12:08:39 pm »
I have been running offline for 6 months now with no serious issues, it's just a little inconvenient.  If you have frequent power outages buy a UPS.
As I stated in my March comment use Telnet to change Veras time.  Once you power Vera up use the telnet command "date -s 050310512009" or (month-day-hh-mm-yyyy)   Make sure you set the time zone first within the GUI (Location tab).  All my scenes execute on time.

Offline g7t

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #13 on: May 04, 2009, 02:36:55 pm »
The scenario I have problem with:

Before I go to bed, I turn everything off, except 3 lights set to 5% and one to full on.
Scene A: At 0:30 turn the insect lamp on for 45mins, then back to off.  Those 3 lights turn off for 45 mins, then back to 5%; the remaining one light turn off.
Scene B: At sunrise, turn those 3 lights off.

When I had no permanent internet connection, nothing got executed, when I kept permanent internet connection it worked properly.
Vera was not rebooted or restarted during any of the two scenarios.
If it is not the clock, then I can possibly see an issue with delayed execution (i.e. 45mins here) or dependencies.

Over the weekend I tried it during daytime: added 14:30 to this scene and shortened time to 5 mins, it was working properly.

Need to do more digging. 

Offline zmistro

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Re: Vera does not have internal clock?
« Reply #14 on: May 04, 2009, 08:13:46 pm »
I am going to test more also, Let us know what the issues are