Author Topic: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience  (Read 4284 times)

Offline integlikewhoa

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5624
  • Karma: +157/-380
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #15 on: October 16, 2018, 10:09:13 am »
I'm not sure what direction they are taking it in. They've just introduced Homeseer Mobile on a beta basis to replace Homeseer Touch I imagine and there is mention of Homeseer 4 so some form of change of direction must be afoot.

I'm not sure where your info is coming from but HS mobile is not replace HS touch. HS mobile is to give a free and basic mobile app like Vera has or an Imperihome replacement (which is what I use now and with Vera). HS touch and HS touch designer is pricey and made for advanced layouts see the layouts and designs that were created in the forums under HS touch Designer.

HS4 I have not heard any talk and would like some links if you find any. I'm sure at some point in the next few years HS4 will come out going by the history and natural update numbers.

HS- 1999
HS2- 2005
HS3- 2013
HS4- ?

History has shown 6-8 year major revision changes (but that history has only happened twice so it's not much of a trend to follow) and we are in year 5 so it's very possible that in the next 1-2 years there could be a major update.

UI uglyness..... Yes it's true but it works. Actually HomeSeer works and keeps working which is why I moved to it from VERA. It's very reliable, no weird reboots, crashes and unexplained reasons what something that was supposed to happen didn't.

VM, Linux vs. windows..... First I know just enough to be dangerous with windows. Linux I tried (I own two pi's and a Pi3) to pretend I could use linux. It ended up being the worst experience in HomeSeer. Trying to figure out how to save backups (BLBackup) to a flash drive since linux doesn't use simple letters. How to auto boot HS3 on power up (cron and such) was just a PIA for a widnows user to try and do in Linux. Mono and different versions of MONO and installing or updating different packages all that stuff was just way to complicated for me in linux vs. double clicking a mouse in windows. So for anyone that is not a linux pro and thinking that using a PI is the cheapest way to go to HomeSeer....... Make sure you realize that if you run into problems its probley not due to HS3. If your a linux pro then this probley doesn't apply to you, but even they complain about MONO and how HS is really a native windows program not Linux. 

Offline peterxbmc

  • Sr. Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 35
  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #16 on: October 16, 2018, 04:22:17 pm »
I'm not sure what direction they are taking it in. They've just introduced Homeseer Mobile on a beta basis to replace Homeseer Touch I imagine and there is mention of Homeseer 4 so some form of change of direction must be afoot.

I'm not sure where your info is coming from but HS mobile is not replace HS touch. HS mobile is to give a free and basic mobile app like Vera has or an Imperihome replacement (which is what I use now and with Vera). HS touch and HS touch designer is pricey and made for advanced layouts see the layouts and designs that were created in the forums under HS touch Designer.

HS4 I have not heard any talk and would like some links if you find any. I'm sure at some point in the next few years HS4 will come out going by the history and natural update numbers.

HS- 1999
HS2- 2005
HS3- 2013
HS4- ?

History has shown 6-8 year major revision changes (but that history has only happened twice so it's not much of a trend to follow) and we are in year 5 so it's very possible that in the next 1-2 years there could be a major update.

UI uglyness..... Yes it's true but it works. Actually HomeSeer works and keeps working which is why I moved to it from VERA. It's very reliable, no weird reboots, crashes and unexplained reasons what something that was supposed to happen didn't.

VM, Linux vs. windows..... First I know just enough to be dangerous with windows. Linux I tried (I own two pi's and a Pi3) to pretend I could use linux. It ended up being the worst experience in HomeSeer. Trying to figure out how to save backups (BLBackup) to a flash drive since linux doesn't use simple letters. How to auto boot HS3 on power up (cron and such) was just a PIA for a widnows user to try and do in Linux. Mono and different versions of MONO and installing or updating different packages all that stuff was just way to complicated for me in linux vs. double clicking a mouse in windows. So for anyone that is not a linux pro and thinking that using a PI is the cheapest way to go to HomeSeer....... Make sure you realize that if you run into problems its probley not due to HS3. If your a linux pro then this probley doesn't apply to you, but even they complain about MONO and how HS is really a native windows program not Linux.

Yes in time honoured Windows tradition upgrades  = revenue generation and it's nearly that time again for HS3

I wouldn't exactly agree with Homeseer's ease of use and trouble free existence either in the Windows world. I've read enough horror stories with system breakages to know its had it's problems too. Tech support wouldn't exacty set the tech support world on fire either. Thankfully I've never needed their services either.

I purchased HS3 to use in the Linux environment knowing its reliance on Mono. Not ideal I'll grant you but launching it from boot is a simple matter of creating a Systemd service. Not too difficult. Backups are fairly straightforward too. In hindsight I should have jumped earlier on the Home Assistant or Domoticz platform but they hadn't quite blossomed when I needed them.

HS3 on a Raspberry Pi Hometroller would be a similar experience to that on a VeraEdge. Not something I'd really bother with. A bit of a toy and not very expandable in its current form.

Again it's all down to personal preference at the end of the day. Maybe it might be best if the OP holds on for a bit until he sees what the new setup at MCV may have to offer.


Offline kigmatzomat

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 365
  • Karma: +21/-0
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #17 on: October 16, 2018, 09:38:00 pm »
I'm not sure what direction they are taking it in. They've just introduced Homeseer Mobile on a beta basis to replace Homeseer Touch I imagine and there is mention of Homeseer 4 so some form of change of direction must be afoot.

HSTouch is 8+ years old and was never really designed for mobile. It was intended as a way for pro installers to make custom wall tablets. HSTouch Designer is painful to use. There is no pan, no zoom, no scaling. How the heck do you develop for a cell phone screen with a resolution of 2560x1440 on a pc?

As for hs4, Hs3 is 5 years old. I would hope they have a plan for hs4. Based on the very minimal information released to date, I would expect hs4 in 2020. The Android HSMobile has been in beta for 3 months. Assuming they spend another 3 months getting the Android and iOS HSMobile app to production,  I would expect at least a 6 month beta for HS4.

Even then, they didn't immediately obsolete HS2 when hs3 came out so hs3 is good for another 3ish years.

Offline jeubanks

  • Beta Testers
  • Full Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 224
  • Karma: +11/-4
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #18 on: October 17, 2018, 10:30:35 pm »
If you haven't already purchased a UZB, then avoid the Aeotec, there have been many reported problems with these working correctly.

Confirmed there are issues with the Aeotec... still don't know why... I use the SmartStick+ and a Z-Net and a Z-Rpi that I built.  Super easy just find a z-wave stick that works well and use ser2net.

Offline snovvman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2018, 07:22:45 pm »
I need support for Hue, Ring, Harmony, Roomba, Echo, Google Assistant, MyQ, Ecobee, and Rachio.  As far as I can tell, both Vera and Homeseer support them (native Google Assistant in the works).  Having had years of experience with Vera, some of these integrations are, at best, clunky.

Now that I have a trial version of HSPRO running and installed a few plug-ins, I make some observations.

1) Vera UI7 is actually more graphical, modern-looking, and "prettier".

2) Homeseer's integration and support for devices/platforms appear broader and, in some cases, better.

3) There does not seem to be a way to replicate in HS a dashboard like Vera.  Is this true?  I know in device manager, I can sort, list, and organize by room.  However, there does not seem to be a way for me to assign an additional attribute in order to group specific devices/events while keeping them on their respective floor and room groups.  I know there is designer for HS Touch, but I like managing my home from a browser.

I would appreciate any input.

Online zedrally

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
  • Karma: +13/-5
  • Black Cat Control Systems
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2018, 07:34:06 pm »
#1. People using HS are generally more interested in Automation rather than a pretty UI.


#2. True, I have yet to find a device that HS does not support out of the box, unlike VEra where you forever waiting for Intergration.


#3. May I suggest you ask about #3 on the HS Forum, there are a few Vera Refugees that occaisonaly post here to questions such as your's but you may have a better and faster response in the HS Forum.


If you are quick, HS is 50% off.



Living in the Land of Oz, give me a vegemite sandwich. Home Seer, Vera Lite & Edge, Popp, Black Cat Smart Hub & Vera G, Black Cat Lite 1 & 2's a Black Cat Dimmer or 2, Fantem Tec and then some  Black Cat Cat's Eye PIR's & Door-Window Sensors, RFXComm, Broadlink RMPro & Mini plus a Z-UNO or 2.

Offline snovvman

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 205
  • Karma: +2/-1
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2018, 09:27:26 pm »
#3. May I suggest you ask about #3 on the HS Forum, there are a few Vera Refugees that occaisonaly post here to questions such as your's but you may have a better and faster response in the HS Forum.

If you are quick, HS is 50% off.

Thanks for your reply.  The 50% is why I am looking at HS.  I have OpenHAB, Home Assistant, and Domoticz running.  The first two requires more work than I am willing to put in at this time.  My HSPRO test is running in a VM, if to proceed, I plan to use Z-NET along with a bunch of plug-ins.

It's funny you mention the HS Forum.  I have registered twice and my account was deleted twice before I was ever allowed to post.  They gave me no explanation as to why my account was deleted except that I "did not meet [their] membership requirements".  If I can't ask questions before purchasing, than I will not be making the purchase.

Online zedrally

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1158
  • Karma: +13/-5
  • Black Cat Control Systems
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #22 on: November 04, 2018, 09:47:59 pm »
snip

It's funny you mention the HS Forum.  I have registered twice and my account was deleted twice before I was ever allowed to post.  They gave me no explanation as to why my account was deleted except that I "did not meet [their] membership requirements".  If I can't ask questions before purchasing, than I will not be making the purchase.


I'd PM or email the forum admin and explain the problem. IIRC there was a problem in the past where signups where attributed to "bots" when they actually came from unverified sources. I thought they had fixed the problem.
Living in the Land of Oz, give me a vegemite sandwich. Home Seer, Vera Lite & Edge, Popp, Black Cat Smart Hub & Vera G, Black Cat Lite 1 & 2's a Black Cat Dimmer or 2, Fantem Tec and then some  Black Cat Cat's Eye PIR's & Door-Window Sensors, RFXComm, Broadlink RMPro & Mini plus a Z-UNO or 2.

Offline dannieboiz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
  • Karma: +2/-3
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #23 on: November 04, 2018, 11:31:36 pm »
Coincidentally, I was a long time Vera user before migrating to HomeSeer. I strolled back here to see if there's anything new because  I was just recommending Vera to a "non power" family member after he got SmartThings. LOLFunny, the first couple posts I saw one titled "upgraded firmware and bricked my Vera**I don't know if I should still recommend Vera. LOL This was the exact reason why I left Vera.

When I first started HA, looking at the HS3 interface seems like a steep learning curve so I shy away from it.

2 years later, I was in vera too deep to easily switch. But after countless hours of trying make Vera work and constantly reboot and even went as far as having a Wemo switch to reboot in an emergency when I wasn't home and Vera hang up, I said enough is enough.

Like your question #3, all the work put into Vera and no easy way to move everything over, starting fresh was the only choice. When the 50% off sale went on, I jumped on it. (It's on again now)

If you only need to turn on and off lights, control a few things here and there, HS is an overkill. If you want to do whatever the heck you want with your Home automation and things just work 99% of the time, then HS gets my vote.

Keep in mind that regardless of how good HS software is, it's reliability is dependant on the hardware you're running it on. A low power PC that can be kept on 24/7 and backup, backup, backup is your friend. Unlike Vera, backup is not automatic, first thing you need to learn is HOW TO BACKUP HS3. It's maintained by you locally.

As some has mentioned, plugins are not free, but some of the useful plugins have a free alternatives. An example would be the Harmony Hub plugin, you can pay $30 for the paid version or use the free plugin created by someone else. It'll require some leg work but it's free.

I've been able to go by with only 2 paid plugins and everything else is free. However, I have to warn you, as it grows on you, you'll itch to pay for some other "cool to have" plugins.



Offline integlikewhoa

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5624
  • Karma: +157/-380
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #24 on: November 05, 2018, 12:14:07 pm »
Unlike Vera, backup is not automatic, first thing you need to learn is HOW TO BACKUP HS3. It's maintained by you locally.

I use the free plugin "BLBACKUP" which is automatic to backup (not restore) at what ever intervals you choose and saved to what ever directory you choose. Also can use it to backup and directory not just HS3.

Offline dannieboiz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
  • Karma: +2/-3
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #25 on: November 05, 2018, 12:14:56 pm »
Unlike Vera, backup is not automatic, first thing you need to learn is HOW TO BACKUP HS3. It's maintained by you locally.

I use the free plugin "BLBACKUP" which is automatic to backup (not restore) at what ever intervals you choose and saved to what ever directory you choose. Also can use it to backup and directory not just HS3.

+1

Offline jbfoster

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 191
  • Karma: +8/-24
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #26 on: November 05, 2018, 03:42:55 pm »
My first attempt at registering was denied. I emailed the admin and they said I was flagged as a bot or something like that. The admin took care of it and I was able to register.

Jim


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline rafale77

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1414
  • Karma: +71/-24
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #27 on: November 06, 2018, 01:02:25 pm »
Very interesting thread as the 50% off has brought me here, out of curiosity if not for anything else. I have done a lot of work on my setup as I have shared in my several posts and have reached a point where it is now reasonably stable and reliable. I have invested time is tweaking, adapting older plugins from UI5 to UI7 and then openLuup. Hacked the vera to disconnect it from its server services which I believe is a significant contribution to its instability and strip it of all plugins and automation by moving everything to openLuup in a VM. I have played a round with Zwave.me Zway, Home assistant and hubitat. Never wanted to touch any cloud based solutions. The windows requirement debate and price have been the other factors keeping me from considering Homeseer.
Now if the many of you who have migrated over time (It is very noticeable from the drop in forum activity!) have inputs on these:

1. Secure class key: Has any of you been able to manually set a secure class key? It looks like it is stored in a .ini file and can be extracted but it does not look like one can set that Key on Homeseer. It is important for migration purpose or if short of that to add Homeseer as a network secondary. So far I have only seen homeassistant/openzwave and vera being capable of doing this. Zway and hubitat can?t.

2. Looking at the Homeseer forum, it looks like Homeseer has the same ability as Z-way in configuring zwave device associations. I have kept Z-way on my network as a secondary controller primarily for this reason and secondarily to observe the zwave command queuing behavior. There are a number of threads in the Homeseer forum discussing using Homeseer as a secondary controller. How easy was the migration? Did you end up starting from a new network.

3. One idea I am considering, is to setup Homeseer as a device controller first which means that I would need to control it through an API. There is some confusing information on the Homeseer forum about people using a json or xml (restful API) with one being obsolete. Z-way has a couple of APIs and so does homeassistant. Hubitat doesn?t or at least not easy enough to use.

openLuup (97 devices, 134 scenes, 20 apps) controlling HomeAss + VeraPlus (138 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 205 devices, 20 scenes , 2 app) Bridged to Homekit and Alexa. VeraPlus ExtRooted!

Offline dannieboiz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 415
  • Karma: +2/-3
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #28 on: November 06, 2018, 01:09:19 pm »
Very interesting thread as the 50% off has brought me here, out of curiosity if not for anything else. I have done a lot of work on my setup as I have shared in my several posts and have reached a point where it is now reasonably stable and reliable. I have invested time is tweaking, adapting older plugins from UI5 to UI7 and then openLuup. Hacked the vera to disconnect it from its server services which I believe is a significant contribution to its instability and strip it of all plugins and automation by moving everything to openLuup in a VM. I have played a round with Zwave.me Zway, Home assistant and hubitat. Never wanted to touch any cloud based solutions. The windows requirement debate and price have been the other factors keeping me from considering Homeseer.
Now if the many of you who have migrated over time (It is very noticeable from the drop in forum activity!) have inputs on these:

1. Secure class key: Has any of you been able to manually set a secure class key? It looks like it is stored in a .ini file and can be extracted but it does not look like one can set that Key on Homeseer. It is important for migration purpose or if short of that to add Homeseer as a network secondary. So far I have only seen homeassistant/openzwave and vera being capable of doing this. Zway and hubitat can?t.

2. Looking at the Homeseer forum, it looks like Homeseer has the same ability as Z-way in configuring zwave device associations. I have kept Z-way on my network as a secondary controller primarily for this reason and secondarily to observe the zwave command queuing behavior. There are a number of threads in the Homeseer forum discussing using Homeseer as a secondary controller. How easy was the migration? Did you end up starting from a new network.

3. One idea I am considering, is to setup Homeseer as a device controller first which means that I would need to control it through an API. There is some confusing information on the Homeseer forum about people using a json or xml (restful API) with one being obsolete. Z-way has a couple of APIs and so does homeassistant. Hubitat doesn?t or at least not easy enough to use.

I don't have an answer fo any of your questions but I'd recommend asking those in the HomeSeer forum. You'll more likely to get an answer quickly. The guys over there are very supportive.

Offline integlikewhoa

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5624
  • Karma: +157/-380
Re: Question for those also with HomeSeer experience
« Reply #29 on: November 07, 2018, 10:29:06 am »
Very interesting thread as the 50% off has brought me here, out of curiosity if not for anything else. I have done a lot of work on my setup as I have shared in my several posts and have reached a point where it is now reasonably stable and reliable. I have invested time is tweaking, adapting older plugins from UI5 to UI7 and then openLuup. Hacked the vera to disconnect it from its server services which I believe is a significant contribution to its instability and strip it of all plugins and automation by moving everything to openLuup in a VM. I have played a round with Zwave.me Zway, Home assistant and hubitat. Never wanted to touch any cloud based solutions. The windows requirement debate and price have been the other factors keeping me from considering Homeseer.
Now if the many of you who have migrated over time (It is very noticeable from the drop in forum activity!) have inputs on these:

1. Secure class key: Has any of you been able to manually set a secure class key? It looks like it is stored in a .ini file and can be extracted but it does not look like one can set that Key on Homeseer. It is important for migration purpose or if short of that to add Homeseer as a network secondary. So far I have only seen homeassistant/openzwave and vera being capable of doing this. Zway and hubitat can?t.

2. Looking at the Homeseer forum, it looks like Homeseer has the same ability as Z-way in configuring zwave device associations. I have kept Z-way on my network as a secondary controller primarily for this reason and secondarily to observe the zwave command queuing behavior. There are a number of threads in the Homeseer forum discussing using Homeseer as a secondary controller. How easy was the migration? Did you end up starting from a new network.

3. One idea I am considering, is to setup Homeseer as a device controller first which means that I would need to control it through an API. There is some confusing information on the Homeseer forum about people using a json or xml (restful API) with one being obsolete. Z-way has a couple of APIs and so does homeassistant. Hubitat doesn?t or at least not easy enough to use.

1. Don't know never needed that and only use HomeSeer as primary. Quick search didn't seem like works, but you probley should check their forum for that.

2. I started from scratch. Thing were not in great shape when i left and needed a fresh start anyways. Including is way faster and easier so the devices went quick.

3.  https://homeseer.com/support/homeseer/HS3/hs3sdk.pdf  I use JSON currently for several different things. You can also use it threw MYHS cloud or direct.