Author Topic: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)  (Read 4625 times)

Online Catman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #15 on: January 06, 2019, 04:08:56 pm »
Thanks. Clearly I'm not quite clear on how it works :)

More to learn!

Cheers

C

Offline integlikewhoa

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5630
  • Karma: +157/-382
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #16 on: January 06, 2019, 05:40:27 pm »
I am about fed up with the Vera, and probably Z-wave in general.

Anyone else share similar thoughts?

I was in your shoes, and my solution was the same as below.

Zwave is fine, it's the controller that is the issue. I had lag on my veraplus, switched to HomeSeer and response times became instant.


Offline bucko

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 659
  • Karma: +27/-9
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #17 on: January 07, 2019, 12:05:29 pm »
I dumped Vera several months ago. Too many problems, then FW update bricked it. I moved to Hubitat and now have stable, fast, and 100% local home control.
Vera 3, 40+ Fibaro relays & dimmers, IPUX cams, Elk M1 Gold, M1XEP, M1SP, XVOR, M1RB, Elk124, Monoprice HDMI matrix & 6 zone amp, Denon AVR, Panasonic A8000, BI DV,On Controls

Offline wilme2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1299
  • Karma: +32/-13
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #18 on: January 07, 2019, 01:15:23 pm »
the last few month, my vera shows "Error in lua scritps or scenes" every 8 hours to 2 weeks, problem is that every script stops when this happens, and a reload of the engine normaly fixes the problem (no change to ANY script, just an reload)

I am sporadically seeing this too...
Long Live UI5!  (OK finally made the switch to UI7 in January 2018, and am pretty happy....)

Offline rafale77

  • Community Beta
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1742
  • Karma: +101/-27
  • HA ≠ IoT as a blue sky is cloudless.
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #19 on: January 07, 2019, 02:49:26 pm »
the last few month, my vera shows "Error in lua scritps or scenes" every 8 hours to 2 weeks, problem is that every script stops when this happens, and a reload of the engine normaly fixes the problem (no change to ANY script, just an reload)

I am sporadically seeing this too...

This is odd and I just experienced something similar a few days ago as well. May deserve a separate thread. It points to me to either a bug in the engine which I can?t point to or a data corruption within the RAM. Since a Luup reload fixes it. The written data must be ok and so is the data in the zwave module. I used to have random problems after a luup reload due to timing and various lag in loading different lua codes but I have not had any post luup reload lua code error since I offloaded the vera. This is really an odd one.
openLuup (79 devices, 141 scenes, 19 apps) master to VeraPlus (142 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 221 devices,  20 scenes , 2 apps) +  Hubitat (15 Zigbee nodes) + Home-Assistant (API Integrations). Bridged to Siri and Alexa. Homewave. VeraPlus ExtRooted and mios server independent.

Offline yellowmonster

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 5
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #20 on: January 08, 2019, 07:53:36 pm »
I clearly don't have has many posts as you guys and maybe I am lucky or have a simple setup, but my Vera has been rock solid.  I had numerous issues about 2 years ago, but since then nothing.  I have around 100 devices, mostly z-wave, but some zigbee.  I continue to add devices as I find them on sale.  I have switches, dimmers, outlets, thermostats, motion sensor, door locks, window blinds, sirens, door sensors, cameras, garage door opener interfaces...

My only gripe is the seemingly absent user group.  Whenever I google an issue, the only hits are the SmartThings community.  For example, I was having difficulty connecting my Linear garage door modules to my new Ryobi openers.  Only place I could find the solution was on the ST forums...

Offline wilme2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1299
  • Karma: +32/-13
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #21 on: January 08, 2019, 11:31:35 pm »
This is odd and I just experienced something similar a few days ago as well. May deserve a separate thread. It points to me to either a bug in the engine which I can?t point to or a data corruption within the RAM. Since a Luup reload fixes it. The written data must be ok and so is the data in the zwave module. I used to have random problems after a luup reload due to timing and various lag in loading different lua codes but I have not had any post luup reload lua code error since I offloaded the vera. This is really an odd one.

And tonight I did a reload (so stupid activating/deactivating a scene requires reload) and got a "EnOcean Gateway[15] : Failed to open IO Port".  This shouldn't be happening.  Years with the same configuration, and these lua startup errors just started.

I did a manual reload, same error.  Rebooted, and Vera came up fine.  This is what I think I have been seeing - Vera Luup reloads no longer coming up clean on a regular basis.  Reboot - and it comes up clean.  I have reason to  think this is not firmware related - I just updated to the latest two weeks ago and had seen it prior.  I think something on the backend is jacking with Luup reloads.  And I don't have a clue how to catch it, other than a deep dive in the logs.
Long Live UI5!  (OK finally made the switch to UI7 in January 2018, and am pretty happy....)

Offline rafale77

  • Community Beta
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1742
  • Karma: +101/-27
  • HA ≠ IoT as a blue sky is cloudless.
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #22 on: January 09, 2019, 03:51:33 am »
This is a bit scary. Next time this happens, you may want to try doing the manual luup reload multiple times to see if it comes and goes like it did for me a some time ago. This indicates a timing issue in the data load between the scene lua codes and the startup lua in large part caused by the slow CPU and storage.
openLuup (79 devices, 141 scenes, 19 apps) master to VeraPlus (142 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 221 devices,  20 scenes , 2 apps) +  Hubitat (15 Zigbee nodes) + Home-Assistant (API Integrations). Bridged to Siri and Alexa. Homewave. VeraPlus ExtRooted and mios server independent.

Offline PrincessCleavage

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 353
  • Karma: +6/-1
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #23 on: January 27, 2019, 07:12:57 am »
This is odd and I just experienced something similar a few days ago as well. May deserve a separate thread. It points to me to either a bug in the engine which I can?t point to or a data corruption within the RAM. Since a Luup reload fixes it. The written data must be ok and so is the data in the zwave module. I used to have random problems after a luup reload due to timing and various lag in loading different lua codes but I have not had any post luup reload lua code error since I offloaded the vera. This is really an odd one.

And tonight I did a reload (so stupid activating/deactivating a scene requires reload) and got a "EnOcean Gateway[15] : Failed to open IO Port".  This shouldn't be happening.  Years with the same configuration, and these lua startup errors just started.

I did a manual reload, same error.  Rebooted, and Vera came up fine.  This is what I think I have been seeing - Vera Luup reloads no longer coming up clean on a regular basis.  Reboot - and it comes up clean.  I have reason to  think this is not firmware related - I just updated to the latest two weeks ago and had seen it prior.  I think something on the backend is jacking with Luup reloads.  And I don't have a clue how to catch it, other than a deep dive in the logs.
I have also notice issues where symptoms are scene not executing and found nil values referenced in the logs and the luup engine does not load successfully, also tried manual reloads but only a reboot seems to clear it. Hopefully this won?t be a reoccurring theme :-/.

Offline teknokill

  • Sr. Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 21
  • Karma: +1/-10
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #24 on: February 01, 2019, 12:01:48 pm »
I clearly don't have has many posts as you guys and maybe I am lucky or have a simple setup, but my Vera has been rock solid.  I had numerous issues about 2 years ago, but since then nothing.  I have around 100 devices, mostly z-wave, but some zigbee.  I continue to add devices as I find them on sale.  I have switches, dimmers, outlets, thermostats, motion sensor, door locks, window blinds, sirens, door sensors, cameras, garage door opener interfaces...

My only gripe is the seemingly absent user group.  Whenever I google an issue, the only hits are the SmartThings community.  For example, I was having difficulty connecting my Linear garage door modules to my new Ryobi openers.  Only place I could find the solution was on the ST forums...

YellowMonster,

I'm serious about starting a Home Automation User's Group based on my posted message on this forum a few weeks ago.  I will post it below.   Are you interested in getting it off the ground.  I have the entire concept in my head and need to put more on paper and come up with a great forum concept. Check out the site I want to model it after:    https://forum.xda-developers.com/

Here is the post I submitted in two different sections within this forum.  I was surprised that very few people responded.  This has the potential to really blow up and become successful.  What do you think?

Micasaverde Forum is so confusing!!!...
? on: January 08, 2019, 05:43:15 pm ?
QuoteModifyRemove
Has anybody thought about creating a new forum that would be broken down into specific topics that make more sense?  I would begin by really controlling the moderation and laying ground rules in order that everyone follows the proper protocol.  The best forum structure and control would be like the one for XDA Developers.
It's very important to keep it very organized.  I would include a free marketplace with a rating system.  A deals page that would be official editor's Choice recommendations and have a format that is a hybrid of SlickDeals and Dealnews.   What an AppStore?   Anybody agree that this forum can be very frustrating?

There could be topics for the following:

a Zigbee forum
voice control platforms
a how-to forum
product specific forums
voice control platforms, one for "Alexa" and one for "Okay Google"
a how-to forum
product eco-systems
Wyze Cam Cameras
Camera Surveillance Platforms
Raspberry Pi 3
Raspberry Pi A
Raspberry Pi A W
Relays
Sensors
Smoke Detectors and CO Sensors
Raspberry Pi A
Experimental Projects and Ideas
Irrigation Control
Arduino
ZoneMinderl
Blue Iris
Webcams
Raspberry Pi Cameras
voice control platforms
Electrical Outlets
Dimmers & Switches
LCD RGB Lighting
Bathroom lighting
Kitchen lighting
Heating & Cooling, i.e. thermostats
Split ACs
Remote Controls
Home Entertainment
Android Entertainment boxes, like the Nvidia Shield or the Google Player
Xiaomi Products
Home Security
Home Surveillance
Door Locks
Occupancy Sensors
FOBs
RFID
Relays
Relay Projects
Garage Door Openers
Sirens, Chimes, Strobes and alerting
Blinds & Window Covering Control
Doorbell Integration
Weather Stations
Alarms
Alarm Panel Integration
IOS Apps
Android Apps
Relays


what does everybody think?

Offline dindsy

  • Sr. Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 22
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #25 on: February 12, 2019, 05:21:25 pm »
Yes and almost (to the thread topic).
I have a Vera Lite unit on UI5. Its been going for 5 years or so, I guess. I don't have a huge amount of devices but the ones I have I really like. automatic lights, primarily. Recently the unit has become unreliable. I have to reboot it often to get it to do its thing again. Not locking the front door when I leave is an issue as we have become dependent on it. So I thought about upgrading or removing Z-wave altogether.

My toilet light switch module broke a while ago so I replaced it with a hard switch. And I realise I don't like that so I am now thinking what is the next move in HA. With Google and Amazon voice controlled systems I figured there must be much better technology and advances now.
I was quite surprised to find Vera was still on UI7. I thought about UI7 years ago and even installed it for a while, deciding I didn't like it I went back to UI5.
So, I am going to upgrade but its not going to be Vera. I haven't fully decided yet but am currently thinking Homeseer.

The deciding factor to stick with Z-wave was the Home automation bridge (link below) which is supposed to bring Google and Amazon's HA into the whole picture. I like what they're doing but there is still a ways to go for them to be able to turn on light fixture so I will stick with Z-wave and hopefully use the Google/Amazon to link voice control into it. I don't any of that technology yet so don't know how feasible that is.

http://www.smarthome.com.au/z-wave-automation-bridge.html

Offline steve.lawrence

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 10
  • Karma: +0/-1
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #26 on: February 23, 2019, 10:12:55 am »
Yes and almost (to the thread topic).
I have a Vera Lite unit on UI5. Its been going for 5 years or so, I guess. I don't have a huge amount of devices but the ones I have I really like. automatic lights, primarily. Recently the unit has become unreliable. I have to reboot it often to get it to do its thing again. Not locking the front door when I leave is an issue as we have become dependent on it. So I thought about upgrading or removing Z-wave altogether.

My toilet light switch module broke a while ago so I replaced it with a hard switch. And I realise I don't like that so I am now thinking what is the next move in HA. With Google and Amazon voice controlled systems I figured there must be much better technology and advances now.
I was quite surprised to find Vera was still on UI7. I thought about UI7 years ago and even installed it for a while, deciding I didn't like it I went back to UI5.
So, I am going to upgrade but its not going to be Vera. I haven't fully decided yet but am currently thinking Homeseer.

The deciding factor to stick with Z-wave was the Home automation bridge (link below) which is supposed to bring Google and Amazon's HA into the whole picture. I like what they're doing but there is still a ways to go for them to be able to turn on light fixture so I will stick with Z-wave and hopefully use the Google/Amazon to link voice control into it. I don't any of that technology yet so don't know how feasible that is.

http://www.smarthome.com.au/z-wave-automation-bridge.html

Ho hum...

First: For the OP - same situation as this guy. I'm kinda done with Vera.
Not 'quite' done with Zwave as a protocol, although getting there.

Some specifics: Like Dindsy here - I stared out on a Vera Lite years and years and years ago. Unlike Dindsy - mine worked perfectly. I have perhaps 30 devices, many of which I installed during a home renovation. I'd started with just a few here and there, but during a home renovation did all the lights, some sockets, garage door, outdoor lighting, pond lights etc etc. Again, it worked *perfectly* - even the much maligned outdoor GE? dongle which did have some range issues, but I found that if I nailed it to an upright post facing the house, it could actually reach the house's rear sockets for mesh connectivity.

I never upgraded to UI7. I read the forums and all the teeth gnashing, the faults, the unresponsive'ness (there was no hardware upgrade at the time ,everyone was still on Lite's) and so on. I didn't need UI7 and I stayed on UI5.
Again: Worked perfectly.

dindsy mentions that he'd like Alexa / Google home integration, and that - along with the fact that the Vera App ( Legacy ) got discontinued and the new one only worked on UI7, led me to 'upgrade'.
I stuck with UI5 for as long as possibly could. But a new phone, inability to get the legacy app and a desire to integrate with Alexa prompted the purchase of a Vera Plus. Faster processor, better [this or that.. ] but mostly the promise of Alexa integration led me to take the leap.

It's been something of a nightmare. I had to upgrade my Lite to UI7 then do a transfer of the backup to the Plus. That just failed.
Support dialled in, and faffed around, upgraded my Plus to some firmware that was still in beta  but DID get it working...

Then I noticed odd things *not* working - Scene controller switches (LTM-15's paired with an LRM-AS) didn't work - I have a load controlling 'kitchen lights' switch to which two scene controller switched (dumb switches which send a signal to the hub to control the main switch, instead of the usual traveller wire installations) - they just stopped working. Or. more confusingly? You'd press them.. and you'd have a 30-45 second delay before it worked...

My lights now have an odd characteristic where if you put the slider to 30%, the physical lights are at 100%. So, this leads to odd Alexa interactions where you have to say things like : Alexa, dim the living room lights to 15%, or dim the kitchen lights to 8%. Anything above 30% is the same as 100%. I asked support about that too, and they simply failed to understand... replying "it's working..". Yeah, sure but... and eventually I gave up.

A couple of switches stopped working - device not connected or unable to communicate.
Garage door opener works 'sporadically' - which is the last thing you want.

I had support look into that too, and I have no idea what they did. Occasionally something would start working again, but a week later I'd look at the panel and stuff would be red.

Bear in mind *nothing except the hub* has changed.

Once upon a time I had lots of time to faff around with this stuff - I entertained hooking my Security system to Vera ( with one of those daughter cards for the Vista 20p). I wouldn't touch that with a bargepole anymore. I went with a SimplySafe instead where it remains utterly separate from anything else. ( but does what I want: reduced cost, wireless sensors, central monitoring).
I don't have that time anymore and while I *havent* switched to something else, I'm disillusioned with Vera, and probably will.


Offline Matsohl

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 64
  • Karma: +4/-1
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #27 on: February 23, 2019, 11:57:33 am »
Yes and almost (to the thread topic).
I have a Vera Lite  ...

Ho hum...


Well, we have a lot to ask for in the Vera platform but I am not there yet. They have announced a new firmware during March and I will judge it by that. My system right now is working without problems and I am fine with that.
Vera Plus and Vera Edge with (Hue, Fibaro, Qubino, IKEA, Nexa, Sonos, Telldus, Sensative, Imperihome etc.) and Arduino, ESP8266

Offline rafale77

  • Community Beta
  • Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 1742
  • Karma: +101/-27
  • HA ≠ IoT as a blue sky is cloudless.
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #28 on: February 23, 2019, 12:16:09 pm »
I had read many reviews about the vera before jumping into it and many were negative explaining that the learning curve is steep and that it is not plug and play.
The same remains true today and it has gotten much worse. It is definitely not a consumer class product. It requires an extensive level of expertise to make work and troubleshoot.
There are many fundamental design flaws which compensated by the fact that they were amongst the first on the market and some really outstanding and unique features which remain today.

With the contribution of the community, I have investigated the ins and outs of the platform besides the compiled binary program and have found workarounds to some of the flaws. It is working nearly perfect for me now but it took a lot of work, I wish mios would take at least some of our inputs but instead has been chucking along trying to integrate even more devices while leaving the existing flaws untouched.
openLuup (79 devices, 141 scenes, 19 apps) master to VeraPlus (142 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 221 devices,  20 scenes , 2 apps) +  Hubitat (15 Zigbee nodes) + Home-Assistant (API Integrations). Bridged to Siri and Alexa. Homewave. VeraPlus ExtRooted and mios server independent.

Online Catman

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 338
  • Karma: +10/-0
Re: Anyone else giving up on Z-wave? (or Vera)
« Reply #29 on: February 23, 2019, 12:54:34 pm »
The biggest challenge I have is that it is simply not reliable.  Devices stop working pretty much at random. >90% of the time the response 'oh we can fix that'
The fix is to exclude and re-include which is mad. And it fails to address the actual issue that things should just not stop working.

I'm happy to see what the next firmware is (beyond this point release) but it's going to have to make some pretty big promises if there's a significant cost to upgrade.

C