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Author Topic: Setup, intermittent dropouts  (Read 5967 times)

Offline TaterTot

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Setup, intermittent dropouts
« on: March 12, 2013, 12:34:02 am »
Brand new Vera user here -- I bought the Vera just because this plugin exists, so thanks for all your hard work!  8)

I have a Networx NX-6V2 with the NX-584 module using just a plain serial to usb cable (had to switch the jumpers around)

I too had no luck with the plugin getting the zones automatically, but was able to add them manually with no issues...

I am having a problem disarming the alarm via the "Partition 1" Disarm button (I did place my pin code in the text box)...

I know I saw where others had this issue a while ago, but I was under the assumption it had been fixed...

Anyway, attached to this post is a log file where I armed the alarm, tried to disarm via Vera, and then disarmed via the actual keypad...

Any help would be greatly appreciated. Thanks in advance!
« Last Edit: March 29, 2013, 08:52:24 pm by futzle »

Offline futzle

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #1 on: March 12, 2013, 12:48:53 am »
TaterTot, thanks for posting that log. I went and investigated the recurring error message. Looks like an error was introduced at revision 66 of the Implememtation file.

When I get home from work I will fix the offending file and submit a new version.

Offline TaterTot

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #2 on: March 12, 2013, 12:53:07 am »
TaterTot, thanks for posting that log. I went and investigated the recurring error message. Looks like an error was introduced at revision 66 of the Implememtation file.

When I get home from work I will fix the offending file and submit a new version.

I am glad I could help!  Let me know if I can do anything else... 8)

I really appreciate you responding so fast and looking into this for me.

Offline futzle

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #3 on: March 12, 2013, 03:17:47 am »
TaterTot, try the most recent version (#70) of I_CaddxNX584Security.xml.  No other file has changed.

Edit: looks like this bug affected only the code.mios.com copy of the source. Am I right that you installed from code.mios.com and not apps.mios.com?
« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 03:43:23 am by futzle »

Offline TaterTot

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #4 on: March 12, 2013, 02:59:08 pm »
Yeah I installed it from code.mios.com (just following the instructions from the first post). Is there another (or easier) way I should have installed it?

The new xml file seems to have fixed my disarm issue.

I have another question.... What exactly do the "Arm" and "Bypass" buttons do on the "Devices" tab? Right now with the alarm off, some of my zones show the "Arm" button highlighted and some of them show "Bypass" button highlighted. However, when I try to click on one button or the other -- nothing happens. Typically the only thing I ever have bypassed is my motion sensor (since I have a couple of big dogs). So how would I use these buttons?

Also, I just noticed that it seems like when I go to the zone and click on the little wrench (settings) and hit "Arm" or "Bypass" I actually see something in the logs.... but when I just click on the buttons that are present in the devices tab, I see nothing in the logs...

Actually, I am not sure how true the above statement is... It appears what is going on is that the highlighted button that show up on the "Devices" tab does not match the highlighted button that shows up in the settings (little wrench)... It appears that they somehow get out of sync. So from just looking at the "Devices" tab, you have no idea what the true current state of the zones are.... Not exactly sure if that makes sense or not...

Attached is another log file (not sure if it will be useful)

« Last Edit: March 12, 2013, 03:04:29 pm by TaterTot »

Offline futzle

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #5 on: March 12, 2013, 04:38:38 pm »
Yeah I installed it from code.mios.com (just following the instructions from the first post). Is there another (or easier) way I should have installed it?

If you are on UI5 then you can install it through the Apps tab, which connects to the MiOS App store at apps.mios.com.

Quote
I have another question.... What exactly do the "Arm" and "Bypass" buttons do on the "Devices" tab? Right now with the alarm off, some of my zones show the "Arm" button highlighted and some of them show "Bypass" button highlighted. However, when I try to click on one button or the other -- nothing happens. Typically the only thing I ever have bypassed is my motion sensor (since I have a couple of big dogs). So how would I use these buttons?

The Arm and Bypass buttons on sensor devices in the Vera UI modify the Bypass state of the zone in the alarm system.  At least, they are supposed to, but I see from your Luup log that it stopped working after two goes.  That isn't supposed to happen.  There isn't enough information in your log for me to see what went wrong; can you please re-capture it with the option "Debug to Luup log" (on the Configure tab of the top-level device) turned on?

Offline TaterTot

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #6 on: March 12, 2013, 06:18:09 pm »
There is definitely something going on with the highlighting of the "Arm" and "Bypass" buttons on the device tab and the highlighting of the same buttons in the settings screen not matching up. Also, if a zone's "Bypass" button is highlighted and I press the "Arm" button - I see some stuff in the logs but the "Bypass" button stays highlighted...

Anyway, I enabled the Debug option and tried to recapture what I did earlier...

Let me know if I need to do anything more specific...

Offline futzle

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #7 on: March 12, 2013, 08:02:36 pm »
TaterTot, that log has all the hallmark signs of a flaky serial connection. It appears that bytes are being lost going from Vera to the panel interface. The giveaways are the 0x1e (Negative Acknowledge) messages coming from the panel and the complete silence of messages from the panel after a while.

That goes some way to explaining the bypass weirdness, because the plugin has to know the current state before it can decide if it needs to send the "toggle bypass" instruction to the panel. You will also notice other intermittent failures, such as zones that stop reporting status after a while, and not seeing partition status changes.

Debugging this is going to be a royal pain for you, sorry. Any part of the chain could be at fault: the plug on the NX-8E board; the 2x5-to-DB9 cable; the DB9-to-USB adapter; the Vera USB port. Historically, all of those have ended up being the culprit at one time or another. One user reported that better cable shielding fixed theirs. For another, swapping the USB-to-serial adapter made the difference. Some USB-to-serial adapters draw more current from the USB port than Vera can deliver, too, so inserting a powered USB hub might be necessary.

Offline TaterTot

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #8 on: March 12, 2013, 10:33:30 pm »
Well it could very well be in the serial cable I purchased... I bought a 15ft one because I was originally going to mount the Vera unit far away from the alarm panel...  :P

Here are the two items I am using...

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812196557

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16812156048

I ordered the 2nd one because I was not sure if it had to be USB 2.0

So what is the first step in getting this thing to work -- order another USB/serial cable? Any on NewEgg that you would recommend?

Offline futzle

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #9 on: March 13, 2013, 12:25:06 am »
The process is one of replacing each component one at a time and stopping when you can't make it break any more. For the bits you can't replace, such as the pins on the 2x5 connector on the alarm main board, you can try to deliberately cause the issue, say, by jiggling the connector around, twisting the cable differently. The aim is to reproduce the fault, then isolate it, then eliminate it.

I can't point at any specific hardware?NewEgg is something that only happens to Americans?but on screen the components you point at are of the right kind. The FTDI chipset is theoretically good. I can't vouch for the actual quality, and neither can you with a sample size of one.

The logs don't show any partial messages from the panel to Vera, but do show evidence of lost bytes going the other way. That's consistent with the USB adapter not being able to drive the 12 V needed for RS-232 with the 5 V supplied by USB. Be certain that you are supplying enough current to the adapter, most easily by trying to use a good quality powered USB hub. You'd know for sure if you had an oscilloscope, but more people have hubs. The worst that can happen is that it made no difference, and that you now have a good spare hub.

I've given this pep talk before on this topic. I may have forgotten things this time round, so go back and read that one too, just in case.

Offline TaterTot

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #10 on: March 13, 2013, 10:21:19 pm »
Well I had a spare powered USB hub laying around, so I tried that and no luck...

I still get the weird "Arm" / "Bypass" zone weirdness that refuses to change states & I still get the "Lua_Job::ReturnMessageNotReceived job#6 : (0x7d6b08) P:50 S:5 failed" error in the logs after multiple attempts to arm/bypass different zones...

I thought I read somewhere that serial cables over 10ft can cause issues, so I guess I will have to find another cable to try out...

On another note, on the occasions that I do try to Arm/Bypass a zone and DO NOT get an error --> the highlighting of the buttons still does not change from one to the other... Does this matter?

futzle, I appreciate your help. As soon as I can send PM's then I will move this conversation over to that...

ETA: I am also getting a lot of the following lines in the logs:
Code: [Select]
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.954 luup_log:6: Discarding previous incomplete message <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.959 luup_log:6: Expected checksum: 0xe4 0x82 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.959 luup_log:6: Received checksum: 0x13 0xf0 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.960 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte f0 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.961 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 01 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.961 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 01 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.962 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 02 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.963 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 02 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.964 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 00 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.964 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 00 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.965 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 00 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.966 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 00 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.967 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte ef <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.967 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte ef <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.968 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 48 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.969 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 48 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.444 luup_log:6: Discarding previous incomplete message <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.449 luup_log:6: Expected checksum: 0xe4 0x82 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.449 luup_log:6: Received checksum: 0x13 0xf0 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.450 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte f0 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.450 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 01 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.451 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 01 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.452 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 02 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.453 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 02 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.454 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 00 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.455 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 00 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.455 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 00 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.456 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 00 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.457 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte ef <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.458 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte ef <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.458 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 48 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:18.459 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte 48 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:20.944 luup_log:6: Discarding previous incomplete message <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:20.949 luup_log:6: Expected checksum: 0xe4 0x82 <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:20.949 luup_log:6: Received checksum: 0x13 0xf0 <0x2d74b680>

« Last Edit: March 13, 2013, 10:37:40 pm by TaterTot »

Offline futzle

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #11 on: March 13, 2013, 11:15:00 pm »
I still get the weird "Arm" / "Bypass" zone weirdness that refuses to change states & I still get the "Lua_Job::ReturnMessageNotReceived job#6 : (0x7d6b08) P:50 S:5 failed" error in the logs after multiple attempts to arm/bypass different zones...

Yes, I expect that you will keep getting that until you can sort out the serial reliability.  Zone bypassing is the most tricky thing the plugin has to do, because it has to get the current state before it knows whether to send the command to toggle the zone's state on the panel, and even then the display won't update until it's had confirmation back that the zone has changed, so you need three full There And Back Again messages before it'll even think of behaving, which seems to be too much to ask at the moment.

Most other actions (e.g., seeing a zone trip, or arming a partition) only need a There and Back once, so they will seem more reliable.

Quote
As soon as I can send PM's then I will move this conversation over to that...

No, let's keep it out in the open.  This conversation will inevitably have something useful that I can point a future user to.

Code: [Select]
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.954 luup_log:6: Discarding previous incomplete message <0x2d74b680>
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.959 luup_log:6: Expected checksum: 0xe4 0x82 <0x2d74b680>
[...]
50 03/13/13 19:23:15.960 luup_log:6: Ignoring byte f0 <0x2d74b680>
[...]

That's an indication of bytes lost going from the panel to Vera.  All alarm messages start with a sentinel byte that doesn't appear inside messages.  The first message shows lost bytes at the end of a message (a premature sentinel). The third message shows lost bytes at the start of a message (bytes received when a sentinel was expected).  The second message shows two messages mingled into one (wrong checksum).

So now we have evidence of lost bytes in both directions.

Offline dinochronos

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #12 on: March 14, 2013, 01:41:29 pm »
Futzle, thank you for the advice given so far on my NX8e GE Caddx setup:

1. connection works via USB to RS232 connection cable on Secuirty system board using FTDI chip based USB/DB9 cable (this is cable recomended by MiCasa Verde) with a nulll modem adapter/gender changer (GE BNx8e ribbon cable correct alignment is important as that was inserted backwards previosly)

1. Zones succesfully configured by adding manually though auto scan for zones does not work.
2. Can Arm (stay/away) and also Disarm system per your recent message re Advanced Scene Setup
3. Users able to enter master pin and get info succesfully

I am now down to the last mile on the setup and would greatly appreciate your input/advice on the following items below:

Not working:
A. The last log file on the control tab on the GE scurity device shows all the time - Log:Tamper (Zone 5 Partition 1), I am assuming there may be a connection issue with this motion detector? Though it works correctly ie shows that it trips etc, can be armed and disarmed or is it a panel config issue

B. Event Log -  Log entries 10 (Get more button is grayed out) I am not able to see the last 10 entries.

Last woudl need better undertanding of functinality for the following - Configure tab can you clarify meaning of:
1. Debug to Loop Log check mark box functionality if checked
2. Protect Master Users check mark box functionality if checked
3. anic(Police,Medical Fire) check mark box functinality if checked

Thanks so much for your support so far, great app and look forward implementing further the various capabilities.




Offline futzle

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #13 on: March 14, 2013, 05:30:14 pm »
A. The last log file on the control tab on the GE scurity device shows all the time - Log:Tamper (Zone 5 Partition 1), I am assuming there may be a connection issue with this motion detector? Though it works correctly ie shows that it trips etc, can be armed and disarmed or is it a panel config issue

Tamper detection is done by the panel to detect if the cable to the zone has been cut.  The end-of-line resistors which you will find next to the sensors participate in this detection.  I can't guess why the panel is reporting this, but the plugin is just passing the information on to you, so all I can suggest is go and look at zone 5, both physically and in the panel configuration.

Don't put too much faith in the accuracy of the log messages.  There's evidence that the documentation for these messages doesn't match reality (see the discussion in this thread).

Quote
B. Event Log -  Log entries 10 (Get more button is grayed out) I am not able to see the last 10 entries.

Please capture a Luup log, containing the moment when you visit the Event Log tab.  It may be because of your serial connection, but it may not.

Quote
Last woudl need better undertanding of functinality for the following - Configure tab can you clarify meaning of:

Hover the mouse pointer over each option to see a description.

Offline TaterTot

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Re: Re: Plugin for Caddx/GE/Networx NX-584/NX-8E security system
« Reply #14 on: March 14, 2013, 05:34:44 pm »
The last log file on the control tab on the GE scurity device shows all the time - Log:Tamper (Zone 5 Partition 1), I am assuming there may be a connection issue with this motion detector? Though it works correctly ie shows that it trips etc, can be armed and disarmed or is it a panel config issue

I have this same message on my log every time as well... Mine is "Zone 2" which is my Motion Sensor as well....

Anyway, Since the USB powered hub did not fix my issue -- I just ordered a couple of different types & lengths of serial/usb cables so hopefully I will be able to track down my issue once those come in... :'(
« Last Edit: March 14, 2013, 06:37:35 pm by TaterTot »