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Author Topic: 'Simplest' 3-way switch  (Read 10660 times)

Offline johnnyv

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #15 on: June 03, 2013, 11:11:56 pm »
ok,  I know my status is "newbie"  but i have managed to hook up a 4 way dimmer "z-wave" switch with absolutely no issue at all,  and yes using the existing wiring...

#1.  not to insult anyone,  but if your electrician can not interpret the wiring schematic included with every z-wave switch,  get a new electrician...

The big confusion electricians run into, is that they were trained that in 3-way, 4-way, all the way up to six way switches, the traveler carries 110V..  not the case with the Z-wave scenario....  trouble is they are electricians, and not "electronics" trained...  these switches pass a "SIGNAL"...  meaning turn on, turn off, dim, or brighten, back to the MASTER switch   but they do require Traveler (signal), neutral, and ground...

With that said,
assuming he is running Romex...

Have him run the wiring the way he normally would..  Line power into 1st box (14-2 or 12-2), then bounce to each and every other Switch box(14-3 or 12-3), and then Load out to Lights from last box (14-2 or 12-2)..

This way,  this circuit can be wired the conventional way,  or modified to the Z-wave way... (which is what i did)
(better if you ever go to sell the house, you can always remove your expensive Z-wave switches, and revert to normal, so another electrician will understand it)...

as long as 3-wire (ground 'bare copper' not counted in wire count) is ran between each box, the black wire can be used to send power from the master(1st) switch through each box, to the final box then connected to the load (lights) in the last box..

red remains the traveler(now signal), white is always neutral, and ground is always ground.. (notice in the schematic,  the white,  red, and Ground are the only one's used at every remote switch.. leaving the black wire as a spare in the remote switch boxes.

Have the electrician or do it yourself, label in each box, where each wire group goes, for future reference...







 


Offline nullx8

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #16 on: June 03, 2013, 11:24:28 pm »
wow, so many options.  So is a momentary switch more like a push button then an actual switch? What I don't get is where the z-wave comes in to play, I don't see (via Google) any "zwave momentary" switches.

yes momentary and push button is the same thing ;)
but if you hit in a home-mart or so .. you will see they are avaiable in just the same design and apearance as the "normal ones"

NOT z-wave switches ! just the normal ones from the shelfs in the home-marts (same you use in the rest of the house)
this combined with a micro module .. and you good to go
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Offline fsa317

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #17 on: June 03, 2013, 11:54:20 pm »
ok,  I know my status is "newbie"  but i have managed to hook up a 4 way dimmer "z-wave" switch with absolutely no issue at all,  and yes using the existing wiring...
 

So with your setup did you have to have 4 z-wave devices or 3 "regular" switches and 1 z-wave?

Offline johnnyv

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #18 on: June 04, 2013, 12:03:10 am »
its called  4-way, in old school  terms..    2 switches turning on the same lights, requires a "3-way switch on each end...

if you want or need more switch locations,  "old school", it requires 1 "4-way" switch in between the two "end" 3-ways...

the more switches you want,  you just add a "4-way" switch in between them...

with Z-wave,  there is 1 "master (GE-45609)"  and as many "remote, slave, signal senders, or whatever you want to call them (GE-45610) in between...

that help??



Offline johnnyv

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #19 on: June 04, 2013, 12:10:03 am »
I just re-read that, and see i might have made that a lil confusing..

in Z-wave,  Only 1 master,  just like the JEDI!!!

but unlike them,  as many  Slaves (padiwans) as you want...

make sense yet?

2 switches only old school is (2) 3-ways;  Z-wave 1 master 1 slave...

3 switches old school (2) 3-ways (1) 4-way in between; Z-wave 1 master 2 slaves

4 switches old school (2) 3-ways (2) 4-ways in between; Z-wave 1 master 3 slaves

5 switches old school (2) 3-ways (3) 4-ways inbetween; z-wave 1 master 4 slaves..

see the pattern??

Offline fsa317

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #20 on: June 04, 2013, 12:13:55 am »
I think I'm getting closer :-)

So your 4 way - is actually 3 switches, and they are either all "old school" or all z-wave, you cant have a single z-wave device and then 2 regular?  Assuming I'm right that they are all z-wave, that means each light is going to cost at least $100 bucks to "zwave" unless I go with an alternative method (like the momentary switch).

I guess I'm just having sticker shock as I was thinking one zwave switch per light was going to be enough. 

Johnnyv, just curious which zwave switches did you use?

Perhaps I missed something else, can a cheaper slave (non-zwave), e.g. http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-VP0SR-1LZ-Digital-Matching-applications/dp/B001HSYT3S/ be used with more expensive master? http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Vizia-VRS15-1LZ-Switch-Z-Wave/dp/B001HT0PB2/ref=pd_sim_hi_1
« Last Edit: June 04, 2013, 12:31:07 am by fsa317 »

Offline garrettwp

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #21 on: June 04, 2013, 12:28:45 am »
Many of the z-wave switches that support 3 way wiring will require a companion / auxiliary switch that is a fraction of the cost of the z-wave. This was mention in previous posts. So for example, if you go with a Leviton z-wave switch, you'll need the corresponding auxiliary switch to go with it that will cost around 15 dollars for each one. When it comes to 3-way, 4-way, and more, it can get expensive, but home automation is not cheap in the first place. What I believe nullx8 is trying to say (based on what I can gather from the posts) is that you can use regular momentary switches that will be used with say a fibaro or aeon microswitch. So all you need is the one microswitch (z-wave).

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Offline johnnyv

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #22 on: June 04, 2013, 12:36:59 am »
all Z-wave..  no they won't all cost that much .  if every time you buy a switch for other locations, you but the 3-way combo. only 5 Bucks more..  you will accumulate (45610's).. use them anywhere...

as for mixing old school with z-wave...

hmm may be possible......  I'd have to draw a schematic,  to verify,   but,  the aeon labs: 

Aeon Labs Aeotec SC19103-ZWUS Z-Wave Micro Smart Energy Illuminator

Aeon Labs Aeotec DSC27103-ZWUS Z-Wave Micro Illuminator

Might be a possible "possible" solution.  . NOT sure.  Honestly, it's past my bedtime, and, I'd have to really draw it out..

but if you are doing the whole house z-wave, like i said if every time you buy a switch for other locations, you but the 3-way combo. only 5 Buck more..  you will accumulate (45610's).. use them anywhere...

 any help? ---  wont answer till tomorrow some time.... :(

Offline garrettwp

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #23 on: June 04, 2013, 01:04:27 am »
That is if you go with GE. I am not a fan of the GE switches and spend the extra money with buy Leviton for many reasons. Quality is better, I like the look, and it supports instant status.

- Garrett

Offline fsa317

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Offline Freakin

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #25 on: June 04, 2013, 12:15:28 pm »
The main trouble you have in a "old" house is that you not have the ground wire avaiable to serve the modules.
The technican can simply execute this task "put neutral wire in all switch-boxes" with no explaination ;)
minor correction, you need a neutral wire in most places to serve the modules.

ain't that exactly what i wrote ? :)

Sorry I'm functionally retarded at times  :D I somehow missed your second sentence and thought you said you only need a ground in each box, not a neutral.

Offline fsa317

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Re: 'Simplest' 3-way switch
« Reply #26 on: June 07, 2013, 08:31:45 pm »
Sorry to repost, but was going to put an order in tonight... does this look correct?

Since I'm initially only 'z-waving' 3 or 4 lighting areas the Leviton seem like a good start.

So to confirm for a room with a 3-way switch (non dimmer) I would buy:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-Vizia-VRS15-1LZ-Switch-Z-Wave/dp/B001HT0PB2/ref=pd_sim_hi_1 (Master)
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-VP0SR-1LZ-Digital-Matching-applications/dp/B001HSYT3S/ (Remote)

For a room with a dimmer:
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-VRI06-1LZ-Incandescent-Capable-Dimmer/dp/B001U3Z6YG/ref=pd_sim_hi_1
http://www.amazon.com/Leviton-VP00R-1LZ-Digital-Matching-applications/dp/B001HT4M4I/ref=pd_bxgy_hi_text_y