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Author Topic: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584  (Read 8846 times)

Offline jlawrence

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trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« on: June 30, 2013, 12:36:09 pm »
Thanks for writing this great plugin.  Have it working well with Vera 3, NX-8v2, NX-584E and several Schlage Z-Wave devices.  This enabled me to extend the home legacy wired/monitored system (CaddX) with this highly programmable & wireless system (Vera).

I have a scene that monitors inputs from both the wired and wireless systems, and sends text/email notifications if breached.

I can't find any way to cause the Vera Z-Wave trigger/breach to notify the NX-584E, so that the monitoring company (NextAlarm) is notified.

I understand that using Z-Wave for security is not recommended, but remember that I have the minimal legacy wired system in place and it continues to be monitored.  I'm just adding an additional layer of protection.  Vera, with this plugin, does a good job of notifying me when there's a breach on a legacy/Z-Wave device, but I'd Vera to also notify NextAlarm under certain conditions.

Any best practices or thoughts on how to do this?

Offline jlawrence

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #1 on: June 30, 2013, 12:40:09 pm »
For reference, here's a flow diagram of the system.

Offline guessed

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2013, 01:49:50 pm »
If there's a way to trigger the AUX outputs via the Caddx/NX Plugin, then you may be able to do something akin to this [round about] option:
    http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,15232.msg116388.html#msg116388

It's for the DSC, but the concept is likely applicable if the Caddx/NX Panels can trigger them over their automation interface.  I haven't looked at @futzle's Plugin code to see if it's possible to trigger an AUX relay (directly, or indirectly), but we had a discussion on it a while back, and things might have changed since then:
    http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=14243.0


Here's more information on the AUX ports on the NX-8's AUX Ports:
    http://www.diysecurityforum.com/index.php?topic=23177.0


If it worked, the downside would be that you'd burn an AUX Port, and a Zone, for each virtual circuit you wanted to tie over to Vera.

If it cannot be done directly via Panel mechanics, then a Dry-Contact (Z-Wave or other) could also be used to connect the Zone.  Since that would be under Vera control, you could get the same effect (albeit with more parts)

Offline jlawrence

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2013, 02:08:06 pm »
Thanks for your reply Guessed.  Seems like a really engaged community on here - good stuff.

The dry-contact route sounds the simplest.  Is this the flow?

    Z-Wave sensor > wireless breach > Vera 3 > Triggers > Scene > Opens Z-Wave dry-contact > wired breach > NX-8 > NextAlarm

Is this the basic idea?

Offline guessed

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #4 on: June 30, 2013, 02:37:25 pm »
Yup, that's exactly as it works.

Obviously this has a few more points of failure that a "pure" Alarm sensor model would, since it has many more moving parts that can fail in interesting ways.

For example, late last yr I had a period where certain Z-Wave controlled Fans, and certain lights, in my house would come on randomly.  Presumably this was interference from something.

In my case, the outcome was [mostly] benign.  In your case, if this happened, then you'd get a callout (and a bill) from the Alarm company and/or Emergency Services.

It's for this type of reason that my integration with Alarms is solely in the opposite direction, and I only use Alarm-based Motion sensors in my setup (all Z-Wave ones have been eliminated)

ie. Highly robust system --- events ---> Low quality HA System

Anyhow, just use caution as to what you attach it to in Vera, and what/when it's triggered  8)

Offline futzle

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #5 on: June 30, 2013, 05:58:06 pm »
Hi jlawrence,

Everything guessed said is right: this is a gap in the Caddx system that you'll have to fill with a kludge.  Unlike some alarm panels, the Caddx panel has no concept of a "virtual zone" that you trip/untrip over the serial interface.  You have to do it with physical zones, wiring one up from a relay and controlling the relay from Vera.

So let's talk about the relay.

If you are feeling adventurous, perhaps you can try something for me: apparently you can make users on the Caddx panel that are able to activate the (on the NX-8) four auxiliary outputs.  Most likely this is designed for things like keyfobs that operate garage doors and the like, but it looks from the serial protocol that you can attach this ability to general users too.  If this is true, then you could drive an SPST relay with an auxiliary output, and feed that in as your zone.  I've never tested this because I have the baby sibling NX-4 and its two auxilary outputs are already in use driving the external siren and internal screamer.

Try something like:
1. Make a new user from the keypad (or the plugin) and give it a PIN like 5555.
2. Configure the user from the keypad to activate auxiliary output (say) 3 (and disable the user from doing arm/disarm).
3. Stick a multimeter on the contacts for auxiliary output 3.  You are looking for about 12 V.
4. Enter 5555 on the keypad.
5. See what happens on the multimeter.

If this doesn't work then you're reduced to using a Z-wave relay.  But that would be less reliable, as you point out.

Offline jlawrence

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #6 on: June 30, 2013, 08:50:06 pm »
Thanks Futzle, I will test it sometime this week.  (Only multimeter is at the office).

I'm new to Vera and alarms/security in general, so thanks for your patience. 

Can you please elaborate how Vera would trigger the NX-8 monitored alarm - something like this?

   Vera > ???? > NX-8 sees "User" activate keypad > sets aux out 3 > SPST relay > armed zone alert > NextAlarm

Kindly validate, and fill in the question mark?

Offline futzle

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #7 on: June 30, 2013, 10:19:45 pm »
That's the bit I'm still not sure of. The serial protocol requires that you accompany the PIN with a partition command (arm, disarm, ...), which in this case you don't actually want to do. Perhaps the alarm panel is smart and will Do What You Mean, ignoring the command but still performing the side-effect on Aux Out 3. You'll have to try it and see.

Offline jlawrence

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #8 on: June 30, 2013, 11:29:38 pm »
Let me be specific.  I believe the scene would need to simulate a user entering a PIN > aux out 3 > relay, and so forth.

I don't understand how the scene can trigger the required action - user entering a PIN - to make this work.

Your plugin creates 2 devices - the NX-8 and Partition 1.  I manually created the 6 zone devices (scan didn't work).

When I create a new scene in Vera, all 8 of these devices show up.  But the NX-8 device has no options to set (red circle with slash through it).  The Partition 1 device has only "Arm" and "Stay."  Each zone simply has "Arm" and "Bypass."

So given these limited actions within a scene, how can Vera simulate a user entering their PIN into the NX-8, without that "PIN" action available on any of the devices?

What am I missing?

Offline jlawrence

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #9 on: June 30, 2013, 11:34:41 pm »
I may have answered my own question, but thinking that Partiion 1 may need more actions associated with it on the NX-8, and then those actions would be exposed to Vera through your plugin. 

Assuming this change can be made through DL900 software or by programming through the keypad.  If you can point me towards the right setting within the NX-8, that will save some time.  Or I could be totally wrong and this isn't the answer.  Dunno.

Offline futzle

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #10 on: July 01, 2013, 12:45:25 am »
All the partition PIN actions have to be done through the Advanced scene interface. Every Vera user hits this UI peculiarity eventually, so let me point to a previous discussion about it: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,12430.msg91063.html#msg91063

The issue is that the action verb has to be one from a small set of magic words: "Arm" or "Disarm" or "Stay"; and you want to tie it to a user that can do none of those operations, wanting only the side effect of operating the auxiliary output. That's the bit I'm not certain can work, and it's the bit you are going to have to try on your own panel.

I don't use the DL900 program, not having a computer that I can run it on. I do everything through the keypad. The installation manual that came with my NX-4 shows how to configure a user to operate the auxiliary outputs ("bit 7 set" is important). I bet you have or can google for the equivalent installation manual for your model.

Offline jlawrence

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Re: trigger from Z-Wave > Vera > NX-584
« Reply #11 on: July 01, 2013, 08:43:48 am »
>> All the partition PIN actions have to be done through the Advanced scene interface.

I see, that makes sense.

>> I don't use the DL900 program, not having a computer that I can run it on.

As an aside, I've seen some threads mentioning that DL900 won't run on Windows 7.  I downloaded it from link below, installed, and works fine on Win 7 64 bit.

http://interlogix.com/library/?slug=DL900&filter=%5B%22search%22%5D