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Author Topic: Modules available for high powered devices?  (Read 9529 times)

Offline vas5150

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Modules available for high powered devices?
« on: November 03, 2013, 02:08:33 am »
Looking at powering a hot water system and a large aircon. The modules I have only allow 2300 watt. Aircon needs just over that and the hot water booster even more. Anyone know of any modules out there for this scenario?

Offline RichardTSchaefer

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #1 on: November 03, 2013, 07:33:19 am »
You can use an  LFM-20  (Z-Wave Relay) to drive a relay of any size.

Goto http://www.grainger.com/ And look for relay ... I would find a link that takes you to the PDF catalog ... because than you can review all of the pages on relays.

You will want a coil that's the same as your standard power (110V US).
If you are driving 220/240 Volt load I would get a double pole relay.
Your water heater will use the resistive rating. Things with motors will use the inductive rating.
See if you can find the specs on the coils current. Then find one that has a low coil current.
(This is the power that you will be using just to keep the relay engaged).

Offline Da_JoJo

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #2 on: November 03, 2013, 10:27:57 am »
you could also use a fibaro duo-switch and have this control the relais richard mentions. or a relais-board with 4 outputs on it.
main thing is that you use a z-wave device that is able to open/close a separate high-power relais.
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Offline nullx8

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #3 on: November 03, 2013, 12:18:54 pm »
why always the rocket sience .. just get a standard Industry Contactor
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:ACcontactor.JPG

(i have some here they can switch 90Amps easy) ;)
and they did not cost me anything since i grabbed them from a Aircondition-repair shop ..
they where left in a dead Compressor unit.

the fibaro (or whatever) switches the Contactor, and the Contactor switches whatever you need/want ...

i did the same for my tankless water heaters ... as they consume large amounts of Current.
you just have the screw them somewhere not something of steel (because the magnetic hammer makes a knocking noise ... mounted to somethings of steel or a weak ceiling .. and you will hear it in the whole house ;)
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Offline Da_JoJo

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #4 on: November 03, 2013, 06:18:16 pm »
yup thats more or less the thing i meant by the relais.. here in netherlands we call it relais hence why :-)
see here : http://www.thermostatenshop.nl/123-relais-magneetschakelaar-4polig-25a-spoelspanning-230vac-35mm-breed-8712345123451.html
this one wont make this knockin sound ^^ and can handle 600 switches per hour @ 25 amps 220v
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 06:22:48 pm by Da_JoJo »
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Offline nullx8

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #5 on: November 03, 2013, 07:39:44 pm »
dont know the wording is right .. for me it's just a "SchaltSch?tz" ... but we are on the same page ;)

well mine "knock" because 60amps is alot and the one i have is easy 20 years old (old fashion from Siemens) switches this for 3 phases ...
... i solved that with a piece of wood scewed to the wall above the ceiling ...
its abit overdosed but rock-solid, the house will fall into pieces before this one fails .. for sure ;)

3 minutes talking to get it + 10 minutes to find a old piece of wood (lucky there is construction next door), total cost 0$ ;)
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Offline Da_JoJo

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #6 on: November 03, 2013, 07:44:59 pm »
:-D
yup you could screw the thing to it with some rubber rings under it.. works good.
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
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Offline RexBeckett

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #7 on: November 03, 2013, 08:11:11 pm »
Are we still in the dark ages?  Great lumps of steel and copper?  ::)  Solid-state relays don't knock and 25 Amp modules are pretty small so they may go right into the wall-box. Zero-crossing switching and optical-isolation are fairly standard features. They are all over Ebay and reasonably priced if you don't mind a few days wait whilst they come from China. 

Offline Da_JoJo

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #8 on: November 03, 2013, 08:22:35 pm »
like the one i mentioned, it supports all this stuff u say ? or even smaller then that ?
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
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Offline RexBeckett

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #9 on: November 03, 2013, 08:30:04 pm »
I'd like to see you fit that into a wall-box.  ;D  The last one I bought was 40mm square by 15mm high and rated at 25 Amps. The three-phase ones are a little bigger to have room for all the terminals.

Offline Da_JoJo

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2013, 08:38:50 pm »
just give me a hammer and a chisel and you be supprised what i can fit into a wall ^^
but yes thats small, you have an example/webpage for such device ?
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
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Offline nullx8

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #11 on: November 03, 2013, 08:44:49 pm »
like the one i mentioned, it supports all this stuff u say ? or even smaller then that ?

No, the one you mentioned is magnetic with moving parts.
Just the same i use (mine is just overdozed in size with the reason of the unbeatable price of 0$ And delivery time of 10 Minutes)

Besides that, (me being completly honest) i prefer the steel and copper :)

One reason is 0 Ohm Resistance,
Another is straightforward integration

Also semiconductors do fail in ON-State, where a magnetic one just stops moving ...

Well okay they make noise, and they consume more power.
But wth... The waterheater sucks 5900 watts, the 6watts for the conductor dont really matter in this relation, i guess there is more "loss of current" because of the groundless installation (potential differences) and the poor cables used in the house i live in.

Also magnetic conductors like the one JoJo posted have the advantage that they can withstand ALOT more peak current as its just copper and steel,

1mw too much on a semiconductor and its on forever :)

Speed is also not really a question since its may change state in HA 2-3 times a day.
There is just no need for 100hz switching speed :)

But if you buy it new, not afraid of soldering things then of course semiconductors are an option. Specially for the noise reasons.

I would probably have done it too with solid state, because if the size advantage.

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Offline nullx8

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #12 on: November 03, 2013, 08:48:33 pm »
just give me a hammer and a chisel and you be supprised what i can fit into a wall ^^
but yes thats small, you have an example/webpage for such device ?

Jojo, you defently speak my language ... Hahahaha

http://www.aliexpress.com/wholesale?SearchText=ac+solid+state+relay&catId=141909&initiative_id=AS_20131103174628

One more thing (i forgot) ... Solid states get hot!!
The more current, the hotter they get.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 08:51:15 pm by nullx8 »
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Offline Da_JoJo

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #13 on: November 03, 2013, 08:48:50 pm »
ah ok its a semiconductor one.. i don't fancy these as the're subject to fail. the one i mentioned is the same electromagnetic switch as yours but it just ticks instead of making a loud knock sound.
edit: no i mean a link to the semiconductor one..
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 08:50:42 pm by Da_JoJo »
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
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Offline RexBeckett

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Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #14 on: November 03, 2013, 08:51:36 pm »
Check Ebay for Solid State Relay - there are thousands of them in many sizes and ratings. A lot of them have 3-32V DC inputs so can be wired across the existing relay coil of a Z-Wave switch. You can get a 25 Amp 380 V single-phase module for less than USD 5.00 shipped.