We have moved at community.getvera.com

Author Topic: Modules available for high powered devices?  (Read 9527 times)

Offline RexBeckett

  • Beta Testers
  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3891
  • Karma: +483/-12
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2013, 09:00:49 pm »
Quote
ah ok its a semiconductor one.. i don't fancy these as the're subject to fail.
The MTBF of an SSR is generally a lot higher than that of an electro-magnetic relay. Take a look inside most washing machines, dish-washers, ovens and other domestic appliances. They've been using SSRs for years. It's usually the electro-magnetic motors and pumps or heating elements that fail not the SSR switches.

 

Offline Da_JoJo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
  • Karma: +16/-78
  • If something aint work, we can allways try n make
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2013, 09:04:38 pm »
mm i need more like a z-wave switch with 220v inputs. the fibaro duo-switch is my favourite as it can handle both AC and DC current 24v-220v . best would be 220v as i dont need any transformers or powersupply to run the stuff. i need some stuff for running 3x35Amps and is able to withstand huge powerpeaks when turned on. using balast-loads 3.2 amps each and peaks of 4.1 amps
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 09:07:06 pm by Da_JoJo »
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
Dutch & German translator http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Special:AllPages http://support.micasaverde.com http://domotica-shop.nl

Offline nullx8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Karma: +9/-3
  • Trouble !
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2013, 09:14:38 pm »
mm i need more like a z-wave switch with 220v inputs. the fibaro duo-switch is my favourite as it can handle both AC and DC current 24v-220v . best would be 220v as i dont need any transformers or powersupply to run the stuff. i need some stuff for running 3x35Amps and is able to withstand huge powerpeaks when turned on. using balast-loads 3.2 amps each and peaks of 4.1 amps

Rex is right, assuming they are installed in a controlled envioment like a appliance you buy from the store.

The failure rate is indeed alot higher on a device with moving parts (that is just nature)
But we talking 100 million vs. 500.000 state changes ... Both wont happen in Home automation.

Besides the heat, there is the issue that semiconductors are VERY sensitive to peaks and (most impotant)
They are NOT Potential-free.

But if size and speed and cost matters (Specially in mass production) the semis are the winners
1 VeraLite, 2 RaspberryPI, Harmony Remote, openLuup, 85 Devices, 34Nodes, 63 Triggers, 49 Scenes

Offline Da_JoJo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
  • Karma: +16/-78
  • If something aint work, we can allways try n make
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2013, 09:19:32 pm »
so the're not an option for me considering the high peakloads it must be able to handle. :-/
my uncle wants his greenhouse automated.
we're talking 380v 5 rows of 3x35 Amp loads and a system to open the ceiling windows and temperature control and automated wateringsystem.
edit: forgot the house also needs to be z-waved. its currently all x10 appliances and since i told him about this vera and z-wave he got enthousiast (offcourse) and wants it now and money is not a problem but it needs to be rock-solid as his and 20 employees lifes dependent on it. im not sure if i can handle this huge project by myself  ::)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2013, 09:32:21 pm by Da_JoJo »
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
Dutch & German translator http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Special:AllPages http://support.micasaverde.com http://domotica-shop.nl

Offline nullx8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Karma: +9/-3
  • Trouble !
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #19 on: November 04, 2013, 03:09:59 am »
Just one answer for that:
Get magentic conductors!

Potential free, and you can trust them.
If they are large, they make noise, but who cares, its a green-house.
Its not like you do live there.

Also on industrial ones you can add "6 amp helper contacts" to switch other things or build relations between elements, this may save you a few fibaros as well
1 VeraLite, 2 RaspberryPI, Harmony Remote, openLuup, 85 Devices, 34Nodes, 63 Triggers, 49 Scenes

Offline vas5150

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 63
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #20 on: November 04, 2013, 05:32:31 am »
cheers for the replies... I would like to monitor the power consumption though. that's why I am after a module that can handle higher power with energy monitoring.

Offline Da_JoJo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
  • Karma: +16/-78
  • If something aint work, we can allways try n make
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #21 on: November 04, 2013, 11:36:30 am »
@nullx8  thanx ! that sounds like the most suitable solution. helper contacts are usefull indeed. its modular system right ?

@vas5150 get this http://www.domotica-shop.nl/current-cost-envir-energie-monitor-zwarte-uitvoering-p-16406.html   
for max 80A energymonitoring.. might need multiple connectors for higher currents.
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
Dutch & German translator http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Special:AllPages http://support.micasaverde.com http://domotica-shop.nl

Offline nullx8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Karma: +9/-3
  • Trouble !
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #22 on: November 05, 2013, 04:35:14 am »
@nullx8  thanx ! that sounds like the most suitable solution. helper contacts are usefull indeed. its modular system right ?

yes they have clips to hold additinal contacts, and the bolt moved by the magenet is visible on top.

have the advantage that you can operate them by hand and they can adapt to another level.
here from a Moeller modell: http://goo.gl/y6Jr6y (german)

here is a ebay example of a set with 1 additional helper module holding 2 on (NO) and 2 off (NC) switch
the contractor itself has 3 ON (NO) Switches for high load
http://www.ebay.de/itm/Siemens-Schutz-Kombination-3RT1026-1A-Hilfskontakt-/181132865411

well the 99 Bucks are abit overdozed ... i just googled for a example, they are sure ALOT cheaper some place else.
1 VeraLite, 2 RaspberryPI, Harmony Remote, openLuup, 85 Devices, 34Nodes, 63 Triggers, 49 Scenes

Offline RichardTSchaefer

  • Community Beta
  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10091
  • Karma: +764/-143
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #23 on: November 05, 2013, 06:00:21 am »
Quote
have the advantage that you can operate them by hand
Don't do this!
On the off chance that the load has a dead short ... it could blow up in your face ... Plus you do not engage the power as solidly as the magnetic relay.

My dad did this (although it was for more than 20-30A) .. He was on a roof and was temporarily blinded.

Offline nullx8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Karma: +9/-3
  • Trouble !
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #24 on: November 06, 2013, 02:38:22 am »
thats right!

high current leads to "switch sparks" .. as higher the voltage the more distance, as higher the current the more intense is the fire.
thats why large conductors make noise if they switching, because the contact plates are punched very hard/fast to the contacts in order to avoid this.
breakers are spring loaded, in order to put as much distance as fast as possible if the switch event happens, (no matter how slow you move the switch) ...

but the switch-pin in a  Magnetic conductor < 50A is directly mounted to the switch plates.
so you have to operate them "FAST" (punch them in hard) if do manually.
not to mention that the spark fire will destroy the contact plates over time.
1 VeraLite, 2 RaspberryPI, Harmony Remote, openLuup, 85 Devices, 34Nodes, 63 Triggers, 49 Scenes

Offline Da_JoJo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
  • Karma: +16/-78
  • If something aint work, we can allways try n make
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #25 on: November 06, 2013, 09:40:40 pm »
yup they need a bounce protection as well, just to make sure the contacts don't burn away. i once saw a collegue of mine having his 20cm screwdriver put on a 500v 35A rail.. ended up in a 10cm screwdriver and a fireburst of over 1.5 meters.. its not a kids toy !
i tested some 20A relays allready and they do fine when pushing in by hand. indeed its not a wise idea to do if you don't know what ur doing :-)
simpler non-industrial ones could blow up in your face indeed and i wasnt planning on using these. the ones im gonna need are the "hardcore" relays with the plastic cover protection on the switch.
 
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
Dutch & German translator http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Special:AllPages http://support.micasaverde.com http://domotica-shop.nl

Offline nullx8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Karma: +9/-3
  • Trouble !
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #26 on: November 07, 2013, 08:18:27 am »
i once saw a collegue of mine having his 20cm screwdriver put on a 500v 35A rail.. ended up in a 10cm screwdriver and a fireburst of over 1.5 meters.. its not a kids toy !

i had similar experience myself but with my watch-strap while fiddling in a Switch Rack,
Titanium alloy turned out not only to be very light, its also VERY Current resistent (the cable it touched where gone in just a few sec. :P

well i still operate Conductors manually. (usually its the "helpers" you operate anyway .. not the ones carry the large loads)
1 VeraLite, 2 RaspberryPI, Harmony Remote, openLuup, 85 Devices, 34Nodes, 63 Triggers, 49 Scenes

Offline Da_JoJo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
  • Karma: +16/-78
  • If something aint work, we can allways try n make
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #27 on: November 10, 2013, 11:11:12 pm »
yeah it's dangerous stuff. i use this undocumented feature of a 2.5? cable sometimes when i need to weld something  ::)
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
Dutch & German translator http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Special:AllPages http://support.micasaverde.com http://domotica-shop.nl

Offline nullx8

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 870
  • Karma: +9/-3
  • Trouble !
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #28 on: November 12, 2013, 03:10:43 am »
i use this undocumented feature of a 2.5? cable sometimes when i need to weld something  ::)

well hard to create a KugelBlitz with that aproach, but you on the right path :P
1 VeraLite, 2 RaspberryPI, Harmony Remote, openLuup, 85 Devices, 34Nodes, 63 Triggers, 49 Scenes

Offline Da_JoJo

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1380
  • Karma: +16/-78
  • If something aint work, we can allways try n make
Re: Modules available for high powered devices?
« Reply #29 on: November 16, 2013, 05:44:45 am »
ROFL
could always try n have a conversation with Chukanov or Tesla.. they know the kugelblitz stuff hehe
Vera lite (1.5.622), 2x an-158/2, dead usb pl2302 rs-232, 2x greenwave 6 port, 4x Fibaro FGD211 v1.6, FGBS001, few FGS - 221, etc. AuthomationHD 3 for android :-)
Dutch & German translator http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Special:AllPages http://support.micasaverde.com http://domotica-shop.nl