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Author Topic: Can I do this without LUUP?  (Read 2234 times)

Offline kiwimios

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Can I do this without LUUP?
« on: November 15, 2013, 08:57:53 pm »
Hi all, new user in New Zealand... I have read various threads but can't quite get my head around the right way to do what I want to do and would be grateful for some guidance.

I have a set of high level windows used for cooling that I can open and close through Vera. I have just installed the plugin for a Nest thermostat (working great so far on Hawaii time which is 1 hour ahead and a day behind us)

The Nest is typically set at target 20 degrees.
- If current temp goes above say 23 I want to be able to open the windows halfway, which is achieved by hitting open and then 15 seconds later hitting stop.
- If current temp goes higher again, say 24, I want to open all the way, achieved just by hitting open.
- But only during daylight hours
- I want the windows to be closed at sunset regardless of the current temperature.

Can I do this using a set of scenes, or do I need to wrap my head around PLEG? I'm pretty sure LUUP is beyond me.

Any advice appreciated
Don

Offline RichardTSchaefer

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Re: Can I do this without LUUP?
« Reply #1 on: November 15, 2013, 10:16:26 pm »
The KiWi's treated me nice when I was there ... So I will help you get started ...

This is not complete ... Do the windows have a way of reporting their status, like a dimmer ? How about if they are closed ?

Install the following Plugins:
  • Day or Night
  • PLEG
  • PLC
After installing all 3 then restart your browser.

Make sure the Vera is setup properly for your location and timezone (See the Vera Dashboard: Setup -> Location)
This is so that Vera can compute sunrise/sunset correctly.

Setup the DayOrNight plugin.
I usually use consider it day at 20 minutes before Sunrise and Night at 20 minutes after sunset.

If you think about solving problem by:
Quote
If SOMETHINGHAPPENS then do SOMETHINABOUTIT

In PLEG  SOMETHINGHAPPENS is called a condition and SOMETHINGABOUTIT is called an action.
All conditions have a name. And when they become true ... the associated actions are executed.

In PLEG Setup as follows:
Input Trigger:
Name:Night  - The Day Or Night Plugin indicating Night

Input Device Property
Name: NestTemp  - Attached to the Nest Current Temperature
Name: NestCSP - Attached to the Nest Cooling Setpoint

Conditions:
Day               Not Night
DeltaTemp      NestTemp - NestCSP
PartialOpen     Day and (DeltaTemp > 3) and (DeltaTemp < 4)
FullOpen         Day and (DeltaTemp > 4)
Close              Night or (Day and (DeltaTemp < .5))

Actions:
PartialOpen:     
Immediate      Open
Delayed 15s     Stop

FullOpen:
Immediate      Open

Close:
Immediate      Close

Offline RichardTSchaefer

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Re: Can I do this without LUUP?
« Reply #2 on: November 15, 2013, 10:27:15 pm »
Other things to consider:
  • If you can sense the windows are closed ... then do not need to send another closed command.
  • Maybe connect to Weather Plugin ... Do not allow Open if Bad Weather
    i.e. it's raining.
    Maybe limit to partial open if the outside temp is less than CoolSP - 10
  • Currently I do not have logic to go from Full Open to Partial Open

Offline kiwimios

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Re: Can I do this without LUUP?
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2013, 12:16:18 am »
Hi Richard,

Wow - thank you for those detailed instructions.

The windows can't report on partially open or closed status - when partially open they will report as being either 100% open or closed depending on which way they were last moving.

I was able to do all of your instructions except for this one:

"Name: NestCSP - Attached to the Nest Cooling Setpoint"

I don't seem to have a "Nest Cooling Setpoint" variable available. Could this be because I only have heating connected to my Nest and it knows this so doesn't offer a cooling variable?

Thanks again for your help - I should also be grateful to my fellow Kiwis that were nice to you when you were here I guess ;)

Cheers
Don

Offline kiwimios

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Re: Can I do this without LUUP?
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2013, 12:24:45 am »
On your further points...
Quote
  • If you can sense the windows are closed ... then do not need to send another closed command.
As above - I can't reliably sense this so will want to issue the command regardless
Quote
  • Maybe connect to Weather Plugin ... Do not allow Open if Bad Weather
    i.e. it's raining.
I have set up the wunderground plugin and there's a PWS near me but not sure I need it as these high level windows are well under the eaves and so far (since we moved in) there's been no water coming in. Thanks for the tip though.
Quote
Maybe limit to partial open if the outside temp is less than CoolSP - 10[/li][/list]
Yes this could be a good idea. Maybe also do this for bad weather as maybe the rain would get in if they're fully open.
Quote
  • Currently I do not have logic to go from Full Open to Partial Open
Is that not just the same as full closed to partial open? i.e. initiate close and then stop 15s later? This assumes 30s from full open to full close and viuce versa, which is approx. correct.

Offline RichardTSchaefer

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Re: Can I do this without LUUP?
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2013, 01:11:12 am »
On my Z-Wave thermostat it's called SetpointTarget
There are two of them ... so you need to try it and see if it matches the heating or cooling ... than pick the appropriate one.

If you really do not have one ... create a first condition as follows:
NestCSP        20

Also I though that maybe when you set the thermostat to OFF it should probably keep the Windows closed ... then you can think about controlling the temperature via the thermostat!

I think you have the hang of it ... When you are done ... you might post your status command as an example for others.

I have some thoughts about partial close ... but I need to think about it. It will have a lot more state transitions to deal with.





     

Offline kiwimios

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Re: Can I do this without LUUP?
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2013, 01:40:42 am »
I think I found it - there are two called "CurrentSetpoint" so I'll try the first and see what happens. So that should be all set up - fantastic, I'll report back on how it goes.

This has been really useful for me as a PLEG tutorial also - I think I get how it fits together so thank for that (and for providing PLEG in the first place!)

Where do I get the status command from to post that?

Edit to add... this message is showing in the MIOS header - is it an error message?
Program Logic : Night or (Day and (DeltaTemp < .5)): attempt to compare number with nil

« Last Edit: November 16, 2013, 02:05:05 am by kiwimios »

Offline kiwimios

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Re: Can I do this without LUUP?
« Reply #7 on: November 17, 2013, 03:09:53 pm »
Richard or anyone else who might advise...

I changed the condition that was generating the error in my post above to
"Night or (Day and (DeltaTemp < 0))"
and the error message no longer appears, but I don?t seem to be getting any action out of this - ie the windows have not moved when they should have.

The Status report is below ? it shows right now PartialOpen is true but the windows haven?t moved (are still closed)

Program Logic Event Generator
Device ID: 242013-11-18 09:05:14.408PLC Version: 5.3
________________________________________
Triggers
Name   Description   Last Trigger   State
Night   Day or Night indicates Night time.   2013-11-17 20:21:03.126   false
________________________________________
Device Properties
Name   Device Name   Device Variable   Last Change   Value
NestTemp   Nest   CurrentTemperature   2013-11-18 07:46:36.339   23
NestCSP   Nest   CurrentSetpoint   2013-11-17 18:25:26.100   20
________________________________________
Conditions
Name   Expression   Last True   State
Day   Not Night   2013-11-18 05:48:32.121   true
DeltaTemp   NestTemp - NestCSP   2013-11-16 19:39:16.675   3
PartialOpen   Day and (DeltaTemp > 2) and (DeltaTemp < 4)   2013-11-18 08:29:49.777   true
FullOpen   Day and (DeltaTemp > 4)   2013-11-17 16:08:01.261   false
Close   Night or (Day and (DeltaTemp < 0))   2013-11-17 20:36:16.692   false
________________________________________
Actions
Actions for Condition: PartialOpen
Immediate
Device   Action   Arguments
Clerestory Windows   Up   
Delay 15
Device   Action   Arguments
Clerestory Windows   Down   
Actions for Condition: FullOpen
Immediate
Device   Action   Arguments
Clerestory Windows   Up   
Actions for Condition: Close
Immediate
Device   Action   Arguments
Clerestory Windows   Down   

I assumed I have to set ARM on the PLEG control screen and have done that. Is there anything else I need to have set for this to run?

Offline RichardTSchaefer

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Re: Can I do this without LUUP?
« Reply #8 on: November 17, 2013, 04:56:22 pm »
Is there a stop action as opposed to a close command ?
Is the window partially opened ?
If you armed the PLEG after the trigger ... it will not be synced up until the next event.
Change the Cool SP to 25 ... See if it closes.
If it does then lower it back 1 degree at a time ... and see when it starts to move (You can check the
Status report as well to see what it thinks).