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Author Topic: Installation cost  (Read 5030 times)

Offline johnes

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Installation cost
« on: April 22, 2014, 07:09:08 pm »
Living in MI, new build... what's a somewhat reasonable fair cost for installing zwave receptacles (enerwave) and aeotec smart switches?

I got a quote for $22 for the recepacles (each) and $45 for the switches (each).

Seems really high... Thoughts?

Offline SirMeili

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #1 on: April 22, 2014, 07:12:56 pm »
Living in MI, new build... what's a somewhat reasonable fair cost for installing zwave receptacles (enerwave) and aeotec smart switches?

I got a quote for $22 for the recepacles (each) and $45 for the switches (each).

Seems really high... Thoughts?

$22 for z-wave receptacles is actually pretty low. The lowest I've found are around $35-40 per outlet. Where are you getting the enerwave outlets for $22/each?

$45 for the aeon micro switches/dimmers is about right.

EDIT: I think I misunderstood. I thought you were talking about price for the switches and outlets, now I see you mean installation of them. That does seem high, but it might depend on how long it takes them.
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Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #2 on: April 22, 2014, 07:13:00 pm »
Living in MI, new build... what's a somewhat reasonable fair cost for installing zwave receptacles (enerwave) and aeotec smart switches?

I got a quote for $22 for the recepacles (each) and $45 for the switches (each).

Seems really high... Thoughts?

Why would switches be double a receptacle? They running a neutral if its not there?

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #3 on: April 22, 2014, 07:14:32 pm »
$22 for z-wave receptacles is actually pretty low. The lowest I've found are around $35-40 per outlet. Where are you getting the enerwave outlets for $22/each?

$45 for the aeon micro switches/dimmers is about right.

I think he is talking about installing labor cost only, not cost of the device.

Offline johnes

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #4 on: April 22, 2014, 07:19:33 pm »
Yeah, was talking about installation, not parts :)  If I could find them that cheap, I'd buy all of them and become a reseller :)

As for the sockets, I guess I don't understand what is different between installing a normal socket and a zwave one... is there any diff?

Offline SirMeili

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #5 on: April 22, 2014, 07:27:43 pm »
No difference. You should ask them how much to install a regular receptacle. It could be they charge $22 to do it (in an existing home). The Microswitches are a bit harder so it makes sense they cost more (harder from the perspective of an electrician that's never done one before).

Is this a new home or an existing home?

Also, I just thought of this, they could arguably argue that because the outlet is bigger it's more of a hassle to get back into the box. The outlets are deeper than normal receptacles and I've had a few that barely fit in the existing box.
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Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #6 on: April 22, 2014, 07:32:03 pm »
Yeah, was talking about installation, not parts :)  If I could find them that cheap, I'd buy all of them and become a reseller :)

As for the sockets, I guess I don't understand what is different between installing a normal socket and a zwave one... is there any diff?

By socket you mean receptacle/outlet or switch? The receptacle/outlet..... z-wave or not is no different. Hot, neutral and a bare ground wire.
The switch depends if its dimming or not really.

Dimming: requires 3 wires. Hot coming in, switched hot going out to the light or load and a bare ground.
On/Off only switch: Same as above plus a Neutral wire. 

Depending how the circuit was ran in your house (each light or house might be different) you may have a white neutral wire in the back of the box not hooked up to the current switch or you could have no neutral in the box.

If you wanted a ON/OFF only in a box that had no neutral then you in for a bit of work. There are several ways around this tho.

First is to determine what switch you want and where then check to see what that box has.  It could be a cake walk or could present problems. 45.00 for run a neutral down a wall seems to cheap so I'm going to say that's not it. 45.00 to attach a neutral that's already in the box seems expensive.

22.00 for a receptacle/outlet seems good although I would do it myself of-course as one room could be 100.00 easy and I can do it in a few min.

EDIT: I agree with "SirMeili" I think the extra 23.00 is just to stuff that extra controller in the box.

Any reason you going with micro controllers over actual switches?

And wiring still stands... You need a neutral for for ON\OFF micro switches too, so in existing construction possible you don't have a neutral in the switch box.
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 07:39:08 pm by integlikewhoa »

Offline curiousB

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #7 on: April 22, 2014, 08:42:01 pm »

Living in MI, new build... what's a somewhat reasonable fair cost for installing zwave receptacles (enerwave) and aeotec smart switches?

I got a quote for $22 for the recepacles (each) and $45 for the switches (each).

Seems really high... Thoughts?

Well if the work is yet to be done I would argue no up charge to install a ZWave device over conventional receptacle or switch. There would be a reasonable case for an up charge if the person were having to enroll the stuff and test it on Vera but I assume you'll do that.

If this is just contractor revenue grab have them install standard stuff and then bring in an electrician for a morning on your dime after you move in to swap out the ones you are changing. Pay him cash so he gives you a good hourly rate.

If new build be sure neutral wire is in every box throughout (I think this is code now anyway but not sure). Also might be a case to ask for larger boxes in case you want to use Aeotec DSC modules for some items.



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Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2014, 08:57:32 pm »

Well if the work is yet to be done I would argue no up charge to install a ZWave device over conventional receptacle

If new build be sure neutral wire is in every box throughout (I think this is code now anyway but not sure).

Also might be a case to ask for larger boxes in case you want to use Aeotec DSC modules for some


Just barely saw it was a NEW construction and couldn't agree more with the above. But I do think the upcharge is because you still need to install a standard switch but on top that you also need to install a 6 wire Aeotec modual for each switch. They figure (and they are right) it's twice as much work (not that it was much work to start with). 

Offline johnes

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2014, 09:03:24 pm »
Quote

Any reason you going with micro controllers over actual switches?

And wiring still stands... You need a neutral for for ON\OFF micro switches too, so in existing construction possible you don't have a neutral in the switch box.

It's a new build, so I believe that a neutral is required where I live, but am confirming that tomorrow.

As for controllers over switches... do you have any recs?  Most of the ones I have found are rather ugly, and thought that going with the micro switch would give me flexibility in the actual flip thing that I can use.

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2014, 09:55:19 pm »

As for controllers over switches... do you have any recs?  Most of the ones I have found are rather ugly, and thought that going with the micro switch would give me flexibility in the actual flip thing that I can use.

I guess I have the ugly ones. LOL
I use GE and they look the same or better then the ones they replaced. Rectangle and flat. but these ones have a blue light that makes them look even better. LOL

Not sure what you mean by "flip thing".  EDIT: I guess you ment switch, and your right it will

Only thing I don't like with the using micro switch is the flip switch could be up with the light off or could be down with the light off.
I got a vacation house with so many 3 way switches everywhere and you never know which pattern is currently going to turn off the lights. You can turn all switches down a light still be on.  Gets confusing after a bit especially for a new person in the house.  And call me anal but with everything off I hate looking a 3 side by side switches and one is facing up while the other 2 are down. That's what will happen with a micro switch.

I only have one micro switch in a walk in pantry. I didn't want a dimmer and didn't have a neutral or easy way to get one down to it. So I installed this micro switch in the CAN light. The switch is inside the Pantry and I don't really use it. It's set with  door sensor to come on and off or time out if the door is left on to long. 
« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 09:57:30 pm by integlikewhoa »

Offline curiousB

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Installation cost
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2014, 10:44:36 pm »
....And call me anal but with everything off I hate looking a 3 side by side switches and one is facing up while the other 2 are down. That's what will happen with a micro switch.....

!?!!!  That happens everywhere when you have 3 and 4 way switches.... Up is on up is off, depends what the other switch is sitting at. Life must be good if that really is a pet peeve....

Aeons can be (optionally) wired to a push button type switch instead of a toggle type if you want a push on push off operation......


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« Last Edit: April 22, 2014, 10:53:58 pm by curiousB »
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Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2014, 11:25:16 pm »
!?!!!  That happens everywhere when you have 3 and 4 way switches.... Up is on up is off, depends what the other switch is sitting at. Life must be good if that really is a pet peeve....

Only old 3-ways. Not one of my 3 or 4 way z-wave switches do that.

Aeons can be (optionally) wired to a push button type switch instead of a toggle type if you want a push on push off operation......

Yea I know, OP is right if he wants a certain switch nothing wrong with Micro Switch.

But for me it I like the normal switches and you can get them for 30.00 (paid 45.00 on amazon for my Microswitch) at my local Lowes, eaiser to install, don't need to by a normal switch and easier to warranty if needed. Installation altho a bit harder with the micro switch is not really an issue.

Offline Vodden

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2014, 12:00:51 am »
Paying anything extra for installing z-wave wall switches in particular, seems ridiculous.  It's a straight up swap for single switch applications, and n-way circuits are Simple Simon compared to their hard-wired brethren.  I could see a bit extra for micro switches and dimmers, as I'm guessing most electricians haven't wired them before, but really only the first one should take any extra time or effort.   
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Offline prim8

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Re: Installation cost
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2014, 02:11:44 pm »
!?!!!  That happens everywhere when you have 3 and 4 way switches.... Up is on up is off, depends what the other switch is sitting at. Life must be good if that really is a pet peeve....

Only old 3-ways. Not one of my 3 or 4 way z-wave switches do that.


How does that work if you don't turn it off with the same switch you turned it on with?