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Author Topic: LED Flickering Question  (Read 11020 times)

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #15 on: August 18, 2014, 04:45:39 pm »
@rigpapa - This is an excellent explanation. Unfortunately, there is little option for the consumer to determine if a particular switch uses leading or trailing edge and even in the few cases where you can find that information, the bulbs don't tell the user what they need.

@Lona - Cheap is not an option is Instant Status, is a requirement. The following dimmers support Instant Status and dimming LEDs:
Cooper  RF9540-NAW Aspire Master Dimmer Light Switch

Leviton VRE06-1LZ 600W Electronic Low Voltage Scene Capable Dimmer


If you are willing to forgo Instant Status, these switches work well with Cree and Philips LEDs:
Linear WD500Z-1 Z-Wave 500-watt Wall Mount Dimmer Switch

Evolve LRM-AS 500-Watt Wall Mount Dimmer

Offline rigpapa

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #16 on: August 18, 2014, 07:02:20 pm »
@Z-Waver so true. I wish all the manufacturers were more clear, but they use more basic language that omits detail and leaves one assuming and guessing.

Again, I want to pitch the Leviton VRMX1 universal dimmer, which has instant status, dims all of the LEDs I've ever tested with it (mostly TCP Elite and Cree) and costs half (or less in many cases) of what the VRE06 costs these days.

Evolve is specific in the LRM-AS documentation that it's for incandescent loads only. That said, I've used it with a few good quality LED bulbs *on my bench* and it works VERY nicely, I must say. But I was not testing for safety or longevity. I've got a DZMX1 being delivered tomorrow, hopefully, and I'm eager to test it.
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Offline fantaxp7

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #17 on: September 15, 2014, 09:13:54 am »
Hello,

I've just installed a Linear WD500Z-1. I get some flickering with a set of philips led bulbs and it's odd because it isn't instantly, 5-10 minutes later I will get intermittent flickering.

While wiring I did have a bit of a hard time...I did all the usual black-black, white-white, green-copper but then for the blue wire I had no load wire available. There was a red wire not being used, I tried that but no dice. So I have the blue load wire connected with this white wires and it behaves normal less the flickering.

Any thoughts? Maybe it is the bulb? CNET rates my bulb as poorly for flickering though I find it odd as I have another GE dimming switch and the same bulbs don't show the same issue.

Thanks

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #18 on: September 15, 2014, 09:51:01 am »
Hello,

I've just installed a Linear WD500Z-1. I get some flickering with a set of philips led bulbs and it's odd because it isn't instantly, 5-10 minutes later I will get intermittent flickering.

While wiring I did have a bit of a hard time...I did all the usual black-black, white-white, green-copper but then for the blue wire I had no load wire available. There was a red wire not being used, I tried that but no dice. So I have the blue load wire connected with this white wires and it behaves normal less the flickering.

Any thoughts? Maybe it is the bulb? CNET rates my bulb as poorly for flickering though I find it odd as I have another GE dimming switch and the same bulbs don't show the same issue.
I think that you need to eliminate possibilities until you are left with your answer.

1. The strong possibility that you have miswired the switch. You just tried some stuff and it seems to work? But not quite right? POSITIVELY identify every wire in the circuit and then wire the switch correctly as per the instructions and numerous posts on this forum!

2. The bulbs are rated poorly, for flickering. Your bulbs are flickering... Perhaps try another brand bulb on the circuit and see if it flickers as well.

Dimming is accomplished by chopping off a piece of the current's sine wave. Some dimmers chop the first half and other dimmers chop the second half, called leading or trailing edge. Some bulbs are only compatible with one or the other type of trimming and will flicker on an incompatible dimmer.

For future posts, it is helpful if you provide specifics about the dimmers and bulbs. Brand alone is not sufficient. For instance the Philips LPrize A19 bulbs are leading edge dimmable, which could result in flickering, while the Philips BR30 is leading and trailing edge dimmable which will be more resistant to flickering.

Note: See #1
« Last Edit: September 15, 2014, 09:53:35 am by Z-Waver »

Offline fantaxp7

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #19 on: September 15, 2014, 10:23:30 am »
Hello,

I've just installed a Linear WD500Z-1. I get some flickering with a set of philips led bulbs and it's odd because it isn't instantly, 5-10 minutes later I will get intermittent flickering.

While wiring I did have a bit of a hard time...I did all the usual black-black, white-white, green-copper but then for the blue wire I had no load wire available. There was a red wire not being used, I tried that but no dice. So I have the blue load wire connected with this white wires and it behaves normal less the flickering.

Any thoughts? Maybe it is the bulb? CNET rates my bulb as poorly for flickering though I find it odd as I have another GE dimming switch and the same bulbs don't show the same issue.
I think that you need to eliminate possibilities until you are left with your answer.

1. The strong possibility that you have miswired the switch. You just tried some stuff and it seems to work? But not quite right? POSITIVELY identify every wire in the circuit and then wire the switch correctly as per the instructions and numerous posts on this forum!

2. The bulbs are rated poorly, for flickering. Your bulbs are flickering... Perhaps try another brand bulb on the circuit and see if it flickers as well.

Dimming is accomplished by chopping off a piece of the current's sine wave. Some dimmers chop the first half and other dimmers chop the second half, called leading or trailing edge. Some bulbs are only compatible with one or the other type of trimming and will flicker on an incompatible dimmer.

For future posts, it is helpful if you provide specifics about the dimmers and bulbs. Brand alone is not sufficient. For instance the Philips LPrize A19 bulbs are leading edge dimmable, which could result in flickering, while the Philips BR30 is leading and trailing edge dimmable which will be more resistant to flickering.

Note: See #1

Thanks for the reply.

Here is the manual  http://www.linearcorp.com/pdf/manuals/WD500Z1_manual.pdf In the illustration I see the blue wire going to a circle then to the white. Does this not imply to connect with the white neutral wires?

Also this is the bulbs I have: http://www.amazon.com/Philips-433227-10-5-watt-Style-Dimmable/dp/B00I134ORI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410790780&sr=8-1&keywords=philips+led

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #20 on: September 15, 2014, 11:51:53 am »
Here is the manual  http://www.linearcorp.com/pdf/manuals/WD500Z1_manual.pdf In the illustration I see the blue wire going to a circle then to the white. Does this not imply to connect with the white neutral wires?
No! The circle says "load" inside it. That means the circle represents things like a light bulb. The Blue would connect to one side of the light bulb and a White neutral wire would connect to the other side of the light bulb.

Blue from the switch goes to the Load. It does not go to neutral(white).


Quote
Also this is the bulbs I have: http://www.amazon.com/Philips-433227-10-5-watt-Style-Dimmable/dp/B00I134ORI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410790780&sr=8-1&keywords=philips+led
I have no experience with those bulbs.

In your previous post, you mentioned a red wire. Often these wires are used with 3-way circuits(where two switches control a light). If yours is a 3-way circuit, then there are other considerations as well, like not using a standard switch in conjunction with the WD500Z-1.

I would recommend getting a electrician or someone with more experience with household electrical systems to assist you.

Offline fantaxp7

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #21 on: September 15, 2014, 01:13:11 pm »
Here is the manual  http://www.linearcorp.com/pdf/manuals/WD500Z1_manual.pdf In the illustration I see the blue wire going to a circle then to the white. Does this not imply to connect with the white neutral wires?
No! The circle says "load" inside it. That means the circle represents things like a light bulb. The Blue would connect to one side of the light bulb and a White neutral wire would connect to the other side of the light bulb.

Blue from the switch goes to the Load. It does not go to neutral(white).


Quote
Also this is the bulbs I have: http://www.amazon.com/Philips-433227-10-5-watt-Style-Dimmable/dp/B00I134ORI/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1410790780&sr=8-1&keywords=philips+led
I have no experience with those bulbs.

In your previous post, you mentioned a red wire. Often these wires are used with 3-way circuits(where two switches control a light). If yours is a 3-way circuit, then there are other considerations as well, like not using a standard switch in conjunction with the WD500Z-1.

I would recommend getting a electrician or someone with more experience with household electrical systems to assist you.

Thanks again for the reply.

I've disconnected the switch and put the old one back for now. I think maybe I have the wrong kind of switch. I agree the red is probably traveler, but I don't have any other wires. Here is a picture https://www.dropbox.com/s/lcn0my7fk110lyf/2014-09-15%2012.46.21.jpg?dl=0


Offline Z-Waver

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #22 on: September 15, 2014, 05:41:28 pm »
@fantaxp7 - Based on the picture you provided and the information you provided, I would guess that you are dealing with some type of switch loop. This is only my guess and must be confirmed by positively identifying all wires.

The WD500Z-1 cannot be wired into a switch loop type circuit! The good news is that the additional red wire could be used to reconfigure the circuit, as shown in this diagram. At that point the WD500Z-1 could certainly be used.

But, this is all based on assumptions  that cannot be relied upon in the real world. Get an electrician to do this for you.

Also note that some Z-Wave dimmers such as the GE/Jasco 45612 Dimmer Switch do not require a neutral and could be wired into such a loop switch circuit. But those dimmers can/should only be used with incandescent bulbs, not LEDs or CFLs.

Offline Grwebster

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #23 on: September 15, 2014, 06:07:46 pm »
Wattage does not always stop flicker.  If the lights can respond quick enough to the waveform being supplied, they will flicker.  Old incandescent lights could not respond and would smooth out any flickering.  Capacitors can resolve flickering by filling in the dips in the wave form.   


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Offline fantaxp7

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Re: LED Flickering Question
« Reply #24 on: September 17, 2014, 10:36:17 am »
@fantaxp7 - Based on the picture you provided and the information you provided, I would guess that you are dealing with some type of switch loop. This is only my guess and must be confirmed by positively identifying all wires.

The WD500Z-1 cannot be wired into a switch loop type circuit! The good news is that the additional red wire could be used to reconfigure the circuit, as shown in this diagram. At that point the WD500Z-1 could certainly be used.

But, this is all based on assumptions  that cannot be relied upon in the real world. Get an electrician to do this for you.

Also note that some Z-Wave dimmers such as the GE/Jasco 45612 Dimmer Switch do not require a neutral and could be wired into such a loop switch circuit. But those dimmers can/should only be used with incandescent bulbs, not LEDs or CFLs.

Thanks for the help!