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Author Topic: Merten CONNECT compatibility  (Read 80525 times)

Offline itgo

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #60 on: January 03, 2011, 12:21:39 pm »
Quote
I just got the word from merten Germany that "merten devices cannot be used as inclusion controller".

This one from Merten does not seem a satisfactory answer to me.
If a manufacturer places the zwave logo on its devices, they are certifying that their product is compatible with other zwave devices (as Vera is) as per the zwave alliance agreement.
I am also waiting for a response from Merten Germany and perhaps it will similar to that given to Ap15e; but I'm also awaiting a response from a Zwave alliance spokesman about this compatibility issue.
Vera2 (111047)- Merten (Danfoss) 509201 - Merten remote 506923 - Merten radio 4 gang 506004 - Merten switch 2x 507502 - Merten switch x1 507501 -Merten radio pliug adapter dimmer 508619 - Merten Radio-Argus 220 sensor 509519 - Merten Blind control  580698 and 504546 - Merten - Panasonic  BL-C111

Offline Ap15e

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #61 on: January 03, 2011, 02:33:51 pm »
Quote
Is this battery-powered transmitter then acting master for all my Z-wave network?

Yes, I think so.

The USB interface is the only controller manufactured by merten, which is not battery-powered (well, kind of ...), see http://www.merten.de/download/DL_kat/Funksystem.pdf (sorry, in German only). Even the central unit 'Funk-Zentrale CONNECT' cannot be used as a controller ...

Offline itgo

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #62 on: February 11, 2011, 10:31:18 am »
I wrote a letter to Zwave Alliance and I hope to provide comprehensive answers that will bring you back here in the forums.

Here is the text :


Dear Zwave Alliance,

I'd like to ask for your kind assistance to help me with a serious issue I'm having.

 Here in Italy (and in a few other European countries) we have wall recessed boxes which are slightly different from the rest of the world, so we can't use many of the existing Z-Wave load control devices on the market, designed to fit into square boxes (we have rectangular ones).
 The only wall-mountable solution available to us is a device built by Merten, the product code of which is 506.004. It is a little transmitter allowing remote control of other Merten load control devices (such as 507.502, and others). This device is wired to push buttons commonly found in Italy.

 To control Zwave devices I chose the MiCasaVerde Vera system, hoping it would recognize the Merten device properly; but unfortunately Vera recognizes it as a motion sensor.

 We've been investigating this issue, looking for help in any forum (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=276.msg26757), and there we noticed other users have our same issue, but don't seem to bother much; on the contrary, for us in Italy this matter is crucial, since this device is the only one we can fit into standard wall recessed boxes.

 The Zwave alliance site reads:
 "Having this standard means every product that bears the Z-Wave mark will work with all other Z-Wave products, with no special programming, regardless of who originally manufacturers the item. As a result, total home control has been made simple, accessible and affordable to consumers everywhere. Not three years from now. Not next year -- today."

 After deep testing, MiCasaVerde claims that the Merten device does not fully comply to Z-Wave standard parameters, and therefore the Vera system can not recognize it properly.
Here is a technical analysys from their support :
"The Merten 506004 is a proprietary device, they have proprietary classes embed in their controller. For this, we're not able to control it. We made several requests to Merten to provide those classes to implement them into Vera, but so far, no answer. We could go ahead and reverse engineer their code, but that's illegal and unfair. Until they provide those classes, we can't do much about it, sorry."

So I wonder how is it possible that this Merten device has been awarded Zwave compatibility if this is not completely true!

We hope to find a solution as soon as possible, since our vision is to start installing Zwave systems in Italy where this technology still isn't well-known.

Thanks for your attention .
Best regards


From my experience I understand that the claims made by the Zwave alliance unfortunately do not always correspond to reality, and a number of certified products don't meet the agreed interoperability standards.

This issue is crucial for the end customers, who buy expensive devices (marked Zwave) that cannot be controlled except by proprietary products.

I hope that the ones in charge of the alliance give all the due explanations!

My last communication to the Zwave alliance (Mrs. Miller) was on Nov 04 2011, where I solicited an answer regarding my request for clarification (already sent on December 22, 2010), but I never got a response; this does not seem correct for a large organization such as theirs.  :-\

This is my last email went unanswered:

-----------
Dear Mrs. Miller,
I hope you had the time to check out about the issue I reported in my last e-mail.

I kept on testing various Z-Wave products, and while some of them work flawlessly, I've found another (costly) Merten product with the Z-Wave logo (!) on it, namely the Argus 220 - 509 519, to have the same interoperability issues I already reported.

The technical support at MiCasaVerde, who are the makers of the Vera router I'm testing these products with, answered me with the following statement:

---
First, the Merten 509 519 uses proprietary classes, classes to which we don't have access to without reverse engineering them and since it's illegal, we won't do that. We had tons of requests at Merten to provide them so we can make them work with our software, but no positive answer,
sorry.
---

So I'm kindly asking you, as the CEO of the Z-Wave alliance, to state if there exists an issue with Z-Wave branded products that don't have the full interoperability claimed by the alliance ruleset, or if the problem is instead to be found in the software side (MiOS) or hardware
controllers (MiCasaVerde Vera).


I wrote a letter to Zwave Alliance and I hope to provide comprehensive answers that will bring you back here in the forums.

Here is the text :


Dear Zwave Alliance,

I'd like to ask for your kind assistance to help me with a serious issue I'm having.

 Here in Italy (and in a few other European countries) we have wall recessed boxes which are slightly different from the rest of the world, so we can't use many of the existing Z-Wave load control devices on the market, designed to fit into square boxes (we have rectangular ones).
 The only wall-mountable solution available to us is a device built by Merten, the product code of which is 506.004. It is a little transmitter allowing remote control of other Merten load control devices (such as 507.502, and others). This device is wired to push buttons commonly found in Italy.

 To control Zwave devices I chose the MiCasaVerde Vera system, hoping it would recognize the Merten device properly; but unfortunately Vera recognizes it as a motion sensor.

 We've been investigating this issue, looking for help in any forum (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=276.msg26757), and there we noticed other users have our same issue, but don't seem to bother much; on the contrary, for us in Italy this matter is crucial, since this device is the only one we can fit into standard wall recessed boxes.

 The Zwave alliance site reads:
 "Having this standard means every product that bears the Z-Wave mark will work with all other Z-Wave products, with no special programming, regardless of who originally manufacturers the item. As a result, total home control has been made simple, accessible and affordable to consumers everywhere. Not three years from now. Not next year -- today."

 After deep testing, MiCasaVerde claims that the Merten device does not fully comply to Z-Wave standard parameters, and therefore the Vera system can not recognize it properly.
Here is a technical analysys from their support :
"The Merten 506004 is a proprietary device, they have proprietary classes embed in their controller. For this, we're not able to control it. We made several requests to Merten to provide those classes to implement them into Vera, but so far, no answer. We could go ahead and reverse engineer their code, but that's illegal and unfair. Until they provide those classes, we can't do much about it, sorry."

So I wonder how is it possible that this Merten device has been awarded Zwave compatibility if this is not completely true!

We hope to find a solution as soon as possible, since our vision is to start installing Zwave systems in Italy where this technology still isn't well-known.

Thanks for your attention .
Best regards
Vera2 (111047)- Merten (Danfoss) 509201 - Merten remote 506923 - Merten radio 4 gang 506004 - Merten switch 2x 507502 - Merten switch x1 507501 -Merten radio pliug adapter dimmer 508619 - Merten Radio-Argus 220 sensor 509519 - Merten Blind control  580698 and 504546 - Merten - Panasonic  BL-C111

Offline Ap15e

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #63 on: February 11, 2011, 11:00:24 am »

Offline kalleochvera

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #64 on: March 22, 2011, 04:41:05 am »
Hi
2010-08-27 I wrote the following letter (translated into english with the help of google) to the swedish support at Schneider Electric. After reminding them for an answer every month I received a response last week.

The letter
Some time ago I renovated my house and took the opportunity to invest in the Merten CONNECT radio system. All switches, all the dimmers and all push buttons are Merten CONNECT radio system.
The choice was easy when the system is based on the standard Z-Wave and shall allow the use of products from different manufacturers. You take the best from different manufacturers. Merten had the best looking buttons and electronics of high quality. Central Unit had to be "Vera" from the company Micasaverde when it was built on open source and already had an active "community".

The developers of Micasaverde promises to Vera works with all products that are z-wave standard. It seems they also keep the products from all manufacturers except one works great. The products do not work well is from Merten. For every day that goes by the forums are filled by new disappointed merten owners. I am one of those.

The developers of Micasaverde are telling me the following:
Yes, the Merten Devices Are Not z-wave Complaint, at the least, not all of them. There is a discussion on the forums about this. We Guarantee That Any z-wave device Which is built to standards and it's compliant, We Will Make It Work. This is not the case of Merten. Yes, we spoke with Them and now we're sure There ARE classes built sometime Into Their devices Which Are Not the standard z-wave ones.
But our developers ARE Trying to make it work, right That it's not that simple like in the case of a standard z-wave device.

For your many customers sake and for your reputation as a manufacturer of quality products, I want you to do something about the situation. When products are obviously not the same, I suggest that those who developed the Merten CONNECT radio system will contact Micasaverde and clarifies how the communication of your products may take place.

I know that Schneider Electric is a great company with great hirarkier and should therefore be grateful if you do your utmost to promote this message as far as possible in the right direction.

Best regards
Karl Lindström


Here is part of the reply (sent from "Product Line Manager Connect"):

I have handled the ball to the Z-Wave alliance meaning the sales director and the technical department of Zensys. They agreed that it´s not a way to work from Micasaverde to blame other companies. But I will personally not include myself into the web forum(s). This is a topic for the alliance and inbetween the companies. I have contacted Micasaverde but they do not react. The problems around HomeSeer seems to be solved after we had a conversation with them. Sorry to be unable to do more.

P.S. There is a developer meeting in Berlin in April and I guess our developer will be there. Maybe he can bring it into discussion. I will ask him to do that.


A reminder from the support guy to the product manager
What about the meeting? I have´nt heard anything since this last mail. Did you found out an answer?


The reply from the product manager
not today. Next week I have a personal meeting with the Director of Sales from Sigma Design (Zensys) to discuss also that. As already meantioned its a bit political to answer directly in the forum. You can anser to the customers that we are as well cerfified. If you like you can attach the 1pager-certification I send. The customers should ask the other company. It´s not only a task for us. The other companies should discuss with Sigma Design and the Z-Wave Alliance the interoperability between us and them.


I received a technical manual with some information on how to work with the Merten gear. Perhaps someone more skilled can make use of it and come up with an idea of how to handle Merten-push-buttons?

I sense that the Merten-issue is not top-priority for Micasaverde. What do you think?

Let us all join the Vera-Merten-Uprising

Cheers
Karl

Offline Henk

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #65 on: June 13, 2011, 01:09:33 pm »
I hope my newly ordered Merten CONNECT will work... will post an update once the hardware has arrived and is installed!
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |

Offline kalleochvera

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #66 on: June 13, 2011, 01:56:18 pm »
I have news that the micasaverde guys have been working on the merten compatibillity issues, but for the moment they are waiting for Merten to do some homework. I'll keep you posted.

I'm eager to know how your new Merten gear works. Good luck!

Offline Henk

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #67 on: June 13, 2011, 02:38:24 pm »
My dealer stated he has a working demo setup on Vera 2 with the gear i bought.
Heres a list....

- Merten part 580698 combined with
- RF switch CONNECT with sensor connection. part 503519 (up/down/stop)

Designed to open/close/stop my sunscreens

Will let you know if i get it to work too

I have news that the micasaverde guys have been working on the merten compatibillity issues, but for the moment they are waiting for Merten to do some homework. I'll keep you posted.

I'm eager to know how your new Merten gear works. Good luck!

« Last Edit: June 26, 2011, 04:20:11 pm by Henk »
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |

Offline Henk

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #68 on: June 22, 2011, 04:13:11 am »
All,

I got my Merten switch and zwave controller in last week.
I added it to Vera and the inclusion went flawless.

The strange thing is that i got 3 devices (node 3, node e1 and node e2)
Node 3 i can underand as its my 3rd Z-wave device. The others make no sense to me.

I contacted my supplier (who has the same setup installed as a demo) and he confirms this behaviour.

Has anyone else seen this strange behaviour and can it be solved? Simply deleting the devices i dont want doesnt help, they come back. Moving one device to a different room, makes the other two move as well so they are intertwined (if not the same device depicted 3 times.

Anyone any idea? I have heard of some 3 in 1 sensor (Argus 220) that have the same behaviour (showing up as 5 devices instead of 3)

Henk
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |

Offline mcvflorin

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #69 on: June 22, 2011, 07:03:13 am »
What type of devices? Generic devices, binary switches, sensors? Are they all the same?

Offline Henk

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #70 on: June 22, 2011, 07:19:33 am »
What type of devices? Generic devices, binary switches, sensors? Are they all the same?

@mcvflorin

They are all the same. Window blind controllers (window with red curtain icons) Will post screenshots when i get home

Henk

--edit--
screenshots attached

Again, rumour is that the Merten Argus 220 has similar behaviour
http://forum.mios.com/index.php?topic=4977.msg40320#msg40320
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 01:01:42 pm by Henk »
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |

Offline Ap15e

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #71 on: June 23, 2011, 07:24:07 am »
I can confirm that Vera detects three shutter actors ...

Code: [Select]
Capabilities 201,12,0,4,9,0,L,R,RS,|38,49,80,96:2,112,114,117,133,134,142,158,
Version 6,2,27,2,3
Manufacturer Merten

Code: [Select]
Capabilities 201,12,0,4,9,0,L,R,RS,|38,49,80,96:2,112,114,117,133,134,142,158,
Version 6,2,27,2,4
Manufacturer Merten

Offline mcvflorin

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #72 on: June 24, 2011, 08:31:39 am »
You should file a bug on MiOS Mantis. Though most probably it will take a while until it will be solved, it's a step in the right direction.

I will have a look in the code to see if the problem is obvious and easy fixable, though I highly doubt it.

Offline Henk

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #73 on: June 24, 2011, 08:38:53 am »
@mcvflorin,

Thanks, i will file a bug so you guys can track the issue easier.

Will post the screenshots to Mantis too and make a reference to this thread.

Henk

You should file a bug on MiOS Mantis. Though most probably it will take a while until it will be solved, it's a step in the right direction.

I will have a look in the code to see if the problem is obvious and easy fixable, though I highly doubt it.
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |

Offline mcvflorin

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Re: Merten CONNECT compatibility
« Reply #74 on: June 24, 2011, 08:46:23 am »
I had a look in the code, but I couldn't find anything.