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Author Topic: I Hate UI7!  (Read 12109 times)

Offline gengen

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I Hate UI7!
« on: November 24, 2014, 03:19:57 pm »
The other day, I walked into my house and the temperature was a very high 85 degrees! The culprit? UI7. Read on to find out why.

This is just the latest of many problems with the new Vera release.  In many ways UI7 is a giant step backward from UI5. It is unclear why we needed a whole new UI at all just to add a few features such as house modes. In this thread, I hope to list the many ways that UI7 is inadequate. Can these things be fixed? Maybe, but perhaps not without a new UI redesign (UI8?) I've already submitted these issues to Vera Tech Support. Hopefully they will listen to users' feedback. I really liked the UI6 "dual interface" approach and I recommend that Vera Contol bring back a "UI5" mode to UI7, at least until the problems below are adressed.

1. UI7 has too much white-space, and it uses the space it has rather poorly. My system has over 100 nodes and UI5 did a better job of putting more status information on the screen more clearly. UI7 in general requires too much scrolling even with a large screen.

2. Long device names. UI7 truncates or folds long device names even though there is plenty of white-space on the right. I like to use long names which describe the location of a particular device such as "Breakfast Nook - Family Rom entance." You could "trick" UI5 into accepting a longer name, but UI7 mangles it worse. (Fortunately, tool-tips still show the full name but this is no real substitute.)

3. The scene editor is horrible. For complex devices such as thermostats, UI5 clearly allowed you to change certain settings of a device but not others. The thermostat mode, fan speed, heat setpoint and cool setpoint were settable independently and you could also specify that a particular setting should not be changed by clicking on the small red X on the corner of each control group. These subtle but important UI5 features seem to have been completely lost in UI7.

4. The "step by step" nature of the scene editor makes creating and editing complex scenes more cumbersome and provides no real advantage over UI5. Now, you must choose which devices a scene will change and then change those settings. Previously this was done in one screen. In UI7, you would see changing delayed actions graphically by selecting different delays in a pop-up menu. In UI7, this is done using text sentences. Both views would be useful.

5. All of the problems with UI5 scenes are still present in UI7. It seems like there was an attempt to "simplify" scene creation without really changing the scene model. The result is reduced functionality and a harder to use interface with no long-term benefit once you have gotten past the learning curve. For example, if a controller has an "on" and "off" mode, then you still need two separate "On"and "off" scenes. Competing products such as the Insteon Hub handle both On and Off with a single scene.

6. I still don't see any way for one scene to cancel delayed actions in another scene. Any cancel operation still needs to be done with Lua code.

7. Light-bulb icons in the scene editor are sometimes so light colored that they practically disappear against the white background.

8. The thermostat GUI does not allow selection of "Auto" mode in the front panel. Also, there is only one setpoint, rather than separate heat and cool setpoints as there was in UI5. This is the reason that my hose was so hot. In UI5, my "leaving the house" scene set the cool setpoint to 85 degrees and the heat setpoint to 65. (Don't turn on the heat or the air conditioning unless the temperature goes beyond a wide range.) During the upgrade, this got translated to "Set the heat setpoint to 85" which is totally wrong. There really is no good workaround for this in UI7 which I've found other than setting the thermostat mode to "off." which is not really what I wanted.

9. Navigating a device's settings is much more cumbersome than in UI5. UI5's tabs worked quite well for switching from screen to screen.

10. Binary devices (like light switches) say "Open" and "Closed" rather than "On" and "Off"

11. The Garage Door Opener says "On" and "Off" rather than "Open" and "Closed".

12. UI7 needlessly broke the layout of most top level tiles. Existing devices and plug-ins need to carefully lay out the items that are visible in the "Devices" screen. This is above and beyond all of the other incompatibilities with old plug-ins.

I invite others to add their comments about what they think is wrong (or right) in UI7.

Offline steets250

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I Hate UI7!
« Reply #1 on: November 24, 2014, 04:22:01 pm »
Good post! I have upgraded to UI7 only to immediately downgrade to UI5. UI5 has more features than UI7, and these are easier to access with the old software. My main downgrade reason was the excessive scrolling in UI7. In UI5, the tab layout made everything super easy to access and compact. UI7 is far too spaced out and doing simple tasks requires way too much mouse movement and steps.

Offline BOFH

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #2 on: November 24, 2014, 05:00:05 pm »
I must be missing something here. Are people really accessing and controlling Vera via the Dashboard (be it UI5 or UI7) daily? I don't get it. The only time I use the dashboard is to make changes to  devices or scenes. Which is infrequent. My day to day interaction with Vera is either via AuthomationHD on my Android devices or my GE or Intermatic remotes.

Don't get me wrong, I have reservation about UI7 (Which is I still run UI5) as I don't want to compromise the stability and functionality of my current setup until I am sure everything I use is fully supported in UI7 and UI7 has shown to be stable.
Vera3 UI5 UI7 Edge Plus
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macrho

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #3 on: November 24, 2014, 06:45:21 pm »
I actually use the dashboard almost daily on UI5.  Usually I have my laptop somewhere near me and keeping a tab open to the Vera UI is easier than opening my phone or tablet -- my usual use case is unlocking the front door. 

Offline SirMeili

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #4 on: November 24, 2014, 06:51:25 pm »
I must be missing something here. Are people really accessing and controlling Vera via the Dashboard (be it UI5 or UI7) daily?

I work from home (As a web developer), so I am on my computer most of the day. It is far easier for me to pull up an already open tab, than it is to pull out my phone (really grab it off it's dock) open an app (Authomation), find the room, then find the device. I do want to get perhaps a 2012 Nexus 7 and dock (docks are outrageously expensive!) for on my desk and run Imperihome on it, but until then, the web interface is the fastest way to do it (For me, when sitting at my desk).
VeraLite (Live); ISY 994i (Live); Vera 3 (Waiting to replace VeraLite); Vera Edge (Waiting for all the bugs to be fixed); Xuan StackBox (Testing and waiting for more plugins and for it to mature)
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Offline BOFH

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #5 on: November 24, 2014, 07:13:11 pm »
I stand corrected. I had no idea people did do access via computers. I do have a tablet (HP Touchpad) a work that I use to check on my dogs via AuthomationHD so it's up and running anyway. Quicker and easier than logging in to cp.mios.com on my work desktop

With my snapping up 3 Android phones for $8 a piece last month, all areas of the house I am in most often now have a wall mounted 'controller' running AuthomationHD. Which comes up just pushing a button on phone directly to it's favorites screen. The living area has a $39 7" tablet with the same functionality on the side table. Augmenting my Android stick connected to my LCD TV that also allows me to control Vera via a Wii type remote keyboard/mouse.

Now if only I could get a Android wear app for my LG G watch that interfaces with AuthomationHD and I'd be set with voice control. :)
« Last Edit: November 24, 2014, 07:15:49 pm by BOFH »
Vera3 UI5 UI7 Edge Plus
Trane TZEMT400AB32 | Schlage BE369 FE599 | GE 45601 45602 45603 45604 45606 45609 45631 | Intermatic HA01C HA03C HA05C HA07C CA600 CA3000 | Aeon DSC06106 | Telguard GDC1 | Foscam FI8910W FI8905W FI9821W | D-Link 930L | Wanscam JW0011 | ZModo ZPIBH13W

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #6 on: November 24, 2014, 07:21:49 pm »
I stand corrected. I had no idea people did do access via computers. I do have a tablet (HP Touchpad) a work that I use to check on my dogs via AuthomationHD so it's up and running anyway. Quicker and easier than logging in to cp.mios.com on my work desktop

With my snapping up 3 Android phones for $8 a piece last month, all areas of the house I am in most often now have a wall mounted 'controller' running AuthomationHD. Which comes up just pushing a button on phone directly to it's favorites screen. The living area has a $39 7" tablet with the same functionality on the side table. Augmenting my Android stick connected to my LCD TV that also allows me to control Vera via a Wii type remote keyboard/mouse.

Now if only I could get a Android wear app for my LG G watch that interfaces with AuthomationHD and I'd be set with voice control. :)

I feel the same way with you on this. I think the masses don't use the UI tho. I end up using it because I like to tinker with it. My wife and kid on the other hand never use it.

And for me getting the UI to load takes some time. Opening the page and signing in is the fast part.

Offline steets250

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #7 on: November 24, 2014, 07:56:53 pm »
Anyone setting up Vera is going to have to use the web UI. This means new users (initial setup) and current users (adding a plugin) will have to deal with the web interface.

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #8 on: November 24, 2014, 10:01:53 pm »
Anyone setting up Vera is going to have to use the web UI. This means new users (initial setup) and current users (adding a plugin) will have to deal with the web interface.

Use yes, but looks is the only upgrade and for setup I can care less what color the page is while I'm doing setup. That was the point.

Offline svaleb

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #9 on: November 25, 2014, 05:37:27 pm »
@gengen

I quite agree !
I have left ui7.
Besides from your notes :
I have a picture taken in my yard if there is motion, several pictures are taken during the day. Sometimes I check who has been there.
In ui5 I can see the thumbnails in the arcive or I can enlarge one and click next.
In ui7 I have to enlarge evry single...and close it...and open the next...and close...
Ui7 is a step backwards (repeating myself from an other tread)
Regards
        CE

Offline SM2k

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #10 on: November 26, 2014, 12:53:08 pm »
I'm still on UI5. As others have said, I'll hold out until the day I know I'm not undertaking several days worth of damage control and repairing busted plugins when I update. I'm beginning to wonder, are there any actual advantages to UI7? e.g. have they plugged any of the root level exploits that exist in UI5?

All threads I've ever seen about UI7 are complaint threads. Is there any upside that I'm not aware of?

Offline RexBeckett

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #11 on: November 26, 2014, 01:01:35 pm »
Quote
Is there any upside that I'm not aware of?

Only if you prefer the colour green to blue and you like wide open (white) spaces.  ;D
 

Offline clippermiami

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2014, 01:22:10 pm »
Quote
Is there any upside that I'm not aware of?

Only if you prefer the colour green to blue and you like wide open (white) spaces.  ;D

:)

I've felt this way about UI7 since I first saw it. Seems like a lot of development resources expended for a minor cosmetic change. So far I'm hard pressed to identify any REAL improvements in performance, ease of use, support, etc., over UI5. Had the same effort been expended on UI5 who knows where we'd be now, support for every Zwave device under the sun, support for Zigbee ... et al.

But there will come a day when they will tell us it's UI7 or nothing ... I'm hoping that day is WAAAAAAAY off.
Two Vera Plus UI7 Linked via HTTP, 90+ Devices. PlugIns: PLEG, DSC, Blue Iris, MySensors,  AutoVera, ImperiHome, VeraAlerts, EventWatcher

Offline RichardTSchaefer

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2014, 02:20:17 pm »
UI7 Benefits:
  1) Improve Remote Access Security (Actually that was the main benefit of UI6)
  2) House Modes - This will reduce the need for a lot of conditional scenes that the newbs request.
      Although  I think that House modes are two restrictive for serious automation users ...
      i.e.  Night and Vacation can not be specified.
  3) They support the newer Z-Wave chipset ... so should be able to support more new devices.



Offline zolakk

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Re: I Hate UI7!
« Reply #14 on: November 26, 2014, 04:18:53 pm »
I run MyVera on a RaspberryPi in my house for PC and Xbox use (works nicely on IE on the Xbox One), and it can apparently be installed directly on the Vera.. so there is an alternative that isn't an app to address the UI issue: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=13133.0
« Last Edit: November 26, 2014, 04:21:53 pm by zolakk »