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Author Topic: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!  (Read 14281 times)

Offline BOFH

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #15 on: January 16, 2015, 07:58:07 pm »
Is there a way to let the users customize  the 'filmstrip' at the top of UI7? It is very prominent and to be honest, 2 out of the 3 boxes I will not use. (energy and Security) I can see the latter being of use to the new Secure Vera but do those of us who don't want to go that route, have to have it showing?

A couple of suggestions:
- Possibly allow users to add additional custom frames and allow them to be arranged as the user likes. There already is an existing scroll function.
- Allow the current frames to be customized? I would much rather replace the Energy one with my MultiSwicth  thats shows if my cell is connected to my WiFi (home/away ) and also network status. The Security one, I'd love to have  locked/unlocked indications for my doors as I have no intention to use Vera security option as I am already going a different route.
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Offline mikee

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #16 on: January 16, 2015, 08:05:57 pm »
+1 agree the filmstrip takes up way too much space and is not useful

Same applies to My Modes and My Shortcuts (which really seems more like Vera's shortcuts).

The dash really needs to be configurable. I'd *really* like to be able to setup multiple panels configured for things like "climate view" (thinks like thermos, temp sensors, humidity sensors, etc), "lighting view" (on/off, dimmable, etc), "camera view" or whatever. The single panel is really too simplistic to be of value once you more than a handful of sensors.

Just my 2 cents..

Offline Ramias

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #17 on: January 16, 2015, 08:32:33 pm »
Hmmm.  With employee participation and handling of feedback I may give UI7 a try again. 

Marc Shenker

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #18 on: January 17, 2015, 07:29:55 am »
Is there a way to let the users customize  the 'filmstrip' at the top of UI7? It is very prominent and to be honest, 2 out of the 3 boxes I will not use. (energy and Security) I can see the latter being of use to the new Secure Vera but do those of us who don't want to go that route, have to have it showing?

A couple of suggestions:
- Possibly allow users to add additional custom frames and allow them to be arranged as the user likes. There already is an existing scroll function.
- Allow the current frames to be customized? I would much rather replace the Energy one with my MultiSwicth  thats shows if my cell is connected to my WiFi (home/away ) and also network status. The Security one, I'd love to have  locked/unlocked indications for my doors as I have no intention to use Vera security option as I am already going a different route.

Good suggestion. I don't know how feasible it would be but I will pass it on.

Marc Shenker

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #19 on: January 17, 2015, 07:35:47 am »
+1 agree the filmstrip takes up way too much space and is not useful

Same applies to My Modes and My Shortcuts (which really seems more like Vera's shortcuts).

The dash really needs to be configurable. I'd *really* like to be able to setup multiple panels configured for things like "climate view" (thinks like thermos, temp sensors, humidity sensors, etc), "lighting view" (on/off, dimmable, etc), "camera view" or whatever. The single panel is really too simplistic to be of value once you more than a handful of sensors.

Just my 2 cents..

Noted. I will pass on the feedback.

The concept of modes is to allow two thing,  a single step to put your home into a predefined state, all devices. It also allows a level of condition on a scene; you can designate if a scene runs in a each mode. With the Home Modes plugin you use anything as a trigger including geofencing.

Offline tomgru

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #20 on: January 17, 2015, 11:07:37 am »
A lot has been said here. If you have concerns about us turning off the servers, please don't. We still have users using UI4 on Vera2s.

In order to continue adding new features and functionality that is necessary for us to remain viable in the market place to the platform we had to change some of the underlying architecture. We know that there are bugs and the Development Team and Technical Support chase them down and prioritize getting them fixed as quickly as possible. We have been putting out firmware updates monthly that add a couple of feature additions and many bug fixes.

We need your help in identifying those problems. If you are experiencing a problem please fill out a support ticket at http://support.getvera.com/customer/portal/emails/new and then message or email me so I can get your ticket prioritized.

We are dedicated resolving your issues and I am a conduit that you can use to communicate your issues, problems, requests... etc through to Vera. I have been empowered to chase down whomever holds the information or resource necessary.

I will say this... it's been great seeing you (Mark) all over the forums today!

Thanks tomgru I assume that you mean me, Marc not Mark.

I'm charged to get things done for this community. Someone wished today for the Advanced Scene Editor to be added to UI7. Done, I

tracked down the right person, hopefully it will be in the March update.

Tell me what you need and I'll do my best to get it done.

Yes... you. 😉

Offline Aaron

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #21 on: February 17, 2015, 05:42:32 pm »
Marc,
Is there a plan, and ETA, for Branching Conditional Logic based Scenes? PLEG is excellent but still too difficult for the average person, and also very difficult to troubleshoot - I suspect, in part, do to the way Vera handles execution/timing of actions.

If/Then branching logic would alleviate most of the difficulty and remove complexity - while adding massive value.

Offline CMRancho

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2015, 10:13:37 am »
Marc,
Is there a plan, and ETA, for Branching Conditional Logic based Scenes? PLEG is excellent but still too difficult for the average person, and also very difficult to troubleshoot - I suspect, in part, do to the way Vera handles execution/timing of actions.

If/Then branching logic would alleviate most of the difficulty and remove complexity - while adding massive value.

Aaron, when I bought my first Vera in 2009 I was shocked that Branching Conditional Logic was missing from the feature set. I have been begging for it ever since.
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Offline RichardTSchaefer

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2015, 10:51:33 am »
LUA has been supported for as long as I can remember: (Vera 2 - UI4)   ...
So it's not fair to say they do not have branching/conditional logic.

You make not like this approach ... but that's a different statement.

PLEG is complex ONLY if you try to use the advanced features of PLEG. (i.e. the Sequence expressions)
Simple AND and OR logic and handling is quite easy, easy to debug.

Offline Aaron

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2015, 12:32:02 pm »
LUA has been supported for as long as I can remember: (Vera 2 - UI4)   ...
So it's not fair to say they do not have branching/conditional logic.

You make not like this approach ... but that's a different statement.

PLEG is complex ONLY if you try to use the advanced features of PLEG. (i.e. the Sequence expressions)
Simple AND and OR logic and handling is quite easy, easy to debug.

I should have been more clear... looking for a Scene creator that exposes an easy way for all users to create complex logic. PLEG is much easier to use than LUA, definitely... but not quite what I'm hoping for to make branching logic easy. I have difficulty troubleshooting race conditions, and overlaps, etc.

Attached are examples of interfaces that would be far easier for users of all skill sets:
ELVE's Action Editor
Home Control Assistant's Visual Programmer & Scheduler

Vera's entire system is barely one step above Command Line (Ford Model-T) when we need, at least, a near-modern visual interface (Honda Accord).

I'm not sure why I keep trying... it seems like no one at Vera understands or cares as none of these things have ever been address/discussed in open forum. They continue to ignore answering any real questions about their direction on the product's development.


Offline rstrouse

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #25 on: February 19, 2015, 02:10:09 pm »
@Aaron,

Let's put this into perspective.  Sure the Home Control Assistant is powerful and pretty.  However, it is designed to run on a platform that all in will approach $1k minimum.  You cannot negate the requirements of an Windows 7/8.1 os since all of the UI components, memory management, and I/O come from the platform.  So with the requirements 300Mb free to run the app after the os has loaded itself, minimum 16Gb storage for the os, whatever storage is required by HCA, you have moved well into another class of hardware.  Getting to that level of hardware takes it from a device to a computer.

Simply how long do you think it will take before the next topic will be "Please Vera don't increase my energy bill so much" or "Why are all these features here that I don't need" or "I'm planning on selling my house but it won't work without my Vera."  That is certainly not what I want or need.  If you need something else then perhaps HCA is the right direction for you.

When I sell this house I am not going to take the pool automation, alarm system, irrigation control, or the thermostats.  So I will be leaving Vera for the next occupant, if they want to play with it fine, if they don't want to use it, unplug it.  The house will still have lights and it likely won't be a point of contention for closing.

Vera is a nice little embedded system that doesn't break the bank, provides the ability to keep me from leaving the 3,500 watts of lights on in the front of the house all night, and allows me to install zone controllers in convenient places so I don't have to run all over the house looking for the switch.  In fact I have taken it farther than my original intent and included the Garage Doors, Alarm, and Pool.

Is UI7 unusable -- no.  Is it as good as UI5 -- I don't know haven't used it.  Despite some frustrations and a bit of fiddling, I have gotten to the point where Vera is doing what I want it to do.  Apparently, the frustrations are tenable since I have plans on integrating it even further.  Irrigation is next as soon as I figure out which non-cloud dependent controller I want.  If there is no available plugin for the model I want, I'll write one and let anyone else who finds it useful, use it or modify it for their own purposes.  Not Utopia but not a hell reality either.
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Offline bbosch

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #26 on: February 19, 2015, 03:04:22 pm »
Hi All.  I would also like to add some comments from the other end of the spectrum.

Marc - Thanks for stepping in here and hearing us out.  We really appreciate the time and effort.

I do not think UI7 is a lost cause. I for one appreciate the fresh new look and feel. In general the platform is moving forward. There are some issues but as long as there are channels to voice these, they should be sorted out in time. This forum is skewed towards "super-users" that would like to configure and have control over everything. It is difficult to balance this while maintaining a simple user friendly interface for basic users.

I would like to add a few "surface" items to this list.

- I think the states of the user interface is not obvious. When are changes submitted and applied? On some levels fields are updated "on-focus-out" events and sometimes on buttons. I never know when I did something that will make the system reload and interrupt/confuse the running scenes and I have for example left pool pumps and geysers running for extended periods when scenes were "forgotten" on reloads.

- There is too much padding on the controls. I always push for more padding on design pages as I think it ads a nice comfortable feeling to websites but UI7 is a web application built to do things (function vs form) and I think a little less padding would make it more usable.

- The Off button, On button and the percentage are all on top of each other on dim-able lights. (See attachment - This is on chrome at least)

- The On/Off buttons are not on the items in the "list" views. I often switch to the list view as I have lots of devices. This makes it easier to find the one I am looking for, but the buttons are not on there. I have to then click it to open the device page with MASSIVE on/off buttons.

- The Energy page struggles to authenticate. I always have to go to the http://mios.eemanager.net/ page to log in there and only then it starts working in the Vera UI. Then there are unnecessary scrollbars on the bottom and the side. Little annoying.

This is a feature request (I am sure this can be done but it feels like I should be able to set this up in the UI)

- I can with the GeoFencing set house mode to HOME when at least one user is at home. Can you make it set to Night mode when the sun goes down? This could just be a tickbox like the geofencing at the bottom on the presets page.

This post is getting too long, I'll stop now.

Cheers
Ben

Offline shady

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #27 on: February 19, 2015, 08:33:39 pm »
LUA has been supported for as long as I can remember: (Vera 2 - UI4)   ...
So it's not fair to say they do not have branching/conditional logic.

It may be fair to say they never fully delivered that solution:  "using either the web-based Luup plugin generator (coming soon)"  http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Luup_Debugging
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Offline rstrouse

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #28 on: February 20, 2015, 03:55:56 pm »
@bbosch,

Is that device associated with a plugin?  It looks like it is using a static json from UI5 where the default_icon and the x,y,left,top for the scenegroup are not set correctly.  A dimmable light does not typically have an On/Off button.
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Offline Aaron

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Re: UI7 - MCV, Realize now that this is not what we want!
« Reply #29 on: February 20, 2015, 04:08:51 pm »
@rstrouse
I don't think your assessment of the costs or compute capacity is realistic for the other HA apps... both Homeseer and HCA run natively on Windows (Homeseer now runs on Mono too) and can both run at a $25-35 RaspberryPi. Vera hardware is not even as powerful as RaspberryPi.
... I suspect about 80% of the users would be overjoyed if we could simply buy our own hardware and run Vera on that. I also suspect, it would run better and we'd have less problems.

The Windows apps I have run (including several free apps - Zwave, X10, and Insteon) are FAR more stable and reliable than Vera ever has been. My Vera restarts on its own a few times a day because it leaks memory and/or it somehow cannot keep up... and I hardly run anything on it. PLEG is the most use plugin - I don't have video, or anything major.  Homeseer v1.7 (from 10 years ago) was more stable & more capable - and was easier to create complex scenes.

I've been doing HA nearly 20 years! I post from direct experience with over a dozen HA apps and 4 different hardware protocols.

People here complaining about the GUI are clearly not using the device/OS much. If your biggest concern is the GUI then congrats, you don't need Vera's capabilities and could easily use many other platforms that provide a better GUI.

Yes, most on the forum are Super-Users and this is what the 'promise' of Vera was for... sad to say after 2 years the only thing they have accomplished is creating a GUI with different colors.