We have moved at community.getvera.com

Author Topic: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email  (Read 84918 times)

Offline hugheaves

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 241
  • Karma: +11/-0
UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« on: December 11, 2014, 12:40:43 pm »
Any other developers receive this email from MCV this morning? (words "bolded" as in original email, not by me)

Quote
Dear MiOS Development Partner,

We are reaching out to you today regarding the status of your app or plug-in in the MiOS  marketplace.

It is been nearly a year since we launched UI6 and the new MMS backend. Since that time many developers have successfully updated their apps to be fully compatible with the new backend infrastructure and programming requirements.

With the release of our new UI7 in August we began the process of compiling a list of apps that have yet to be updated. Unfortunately your submission falls into this category.

As a courtesy, rather than remove your application or plug-in from the marketplace, MiOS has made the basic updates required for it to remain active and able to be downloaded by customers.

We implore you to take the time to review, update, and resubmit your application or plug-in to be fully compliant with UI7.

As always, should you have any comments, questions, or concerns please do not hesitate to be in touch.

We look forward to your continued feedback, participation, and support. Thank you very much.

Cheers,

Colin Burke McClure
Sr. Director of Product Development
 
MiOS  ?  Puts You in Control

EDIT : contact information should not be posted on the forum

I'm still not sure how they expect me to maintain / develop a UI7 plugin when I have no UI7 device on which to develop and test, and there is no real documentation on UI7, or plug-in migration. If they choose to remove my plug-in because of that, then there's not much that I can do to stop them, but it certainly seems counter productive.

Hugh
« Last Edit: December 12, 2014, 04:59:34 am by mcv.andrei »
The HA "collection" so far: MiCasaVerde: 1x VeraLite, RTCOA: 3x 3M-50, GE: 1x 45606, 3x 45613, 5x 54614, Kwikset: 1x 99100-004, Intermatic: 6x CA3000, 6x CA600, 8x HA01, 2x HA02, 12x HA03, 2x HA04, 3x HA05,  6x HA07, 7x HA09, Honeywell: 1x Vista 20P, NuTech: 1x AD2USB

Offline guessed

  • Community Beta
  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 5301
  • Karma: +92/-22
  • Release compat is not a bolted-on afterthought
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #1 on: December 11, 2014, 01:54:30 pm »
I got one of those nondescript notices also. 

I gave them a reply, but I'm guessing they won't like it.  I'll wait to see how they respond before I comment further.

Offline BOFH

  • Sr. Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2409
  • Karma: +112/-140
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #2 on: December 11, 2014, 02:05:27 pm »
I can see where they are coming from and what they are trying to do. Which is to make sure all plugins in their app store are compatible with their new defacto standard UI7 OS.

However, they don't seem to realize the following:
1. Most of these plug-ins were created by community members and shared with the community without any financial incentive or gain.
2. The availability of these plugins is what provides the Vera platform with some of it's appeal/desirability.
3. For these plugins to be made UI7 compatible, the author would have to make a considerable financial investment (purchase a Ui7 Vera device at least) without any ROI. However Vera Ltd would be the one benefiting with another UI7 plugin in their store.  This does not add up.

Rather than an Apple style 'make it UI7 compatible or be removed from the app store' edict, without any consideration for the above, they should offer plugin developers for example UI7 loaners units with a developer kit for Ui7. Or eg a VeraEdge for a highly reduced price with the condition the plugin should be Ui7 compatible within time frame X or be charged full price for the unit.

I'm hoping those developers that get locked out of the app store will use another means (eg the forums) to provide access to their plugins. 
Vera3 UI5 UI7 Edge Plus
Trane TZEMT400AB32 | Schlage BE369 FE599 | GE 45601 45602 45603 45604 45606 45609 45631 | Intermatic HA01C HA03C HA05C HA07C CA600 CA3000 | Aeon DSC06106 | Telguard GDC1 | Foscam FI8910W FI8905W FI9821W | D-Link 930L | Wanscam JW0011 | ZModo ZPIBH13W

Offline akbooer

  • Beta Testers
  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6387
  • Karma: +291/-70
  • "Less is more"
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #3 on: December 11, 2014, 02:20:54 pm »
Rather than an Apple style 'make it UI7 compatible or be removed from the app store' edict, without any consideration for the above, they should offer plugin developers for example UI7 loaners units with a developer kit for Ui7. Or eg a VeraEdge for a highly reduced price with the condition the plugin should be Ui7 compatible within time frame X or be charged full price for the unit.
Frankly, I think they should give them out free to developers whose apps they'd like to see continue - they must already have a stockpile of units returned by unhappy customers.

Quote
I'm hoping those developers that get locked out of the app store will use another means (eg the forums) to provide access to their plugins.
Given the appalling interface that the App store has in configuring apps for publishing, then this would probably be easier.
3x Vera Lite-UI5/Edge-UI7, 25x Fibaro, 23x TKB, 9x MiniMote, 2x NorthQ Power, 2x Netatmo, 1x Foscam FI9831P, 9x Philips Hue,
Razberry, MySensors Arduino, HomeWave, AltUI, AltHue, DataYours, Grafana, openLuup, ZWay, ZeroBrane Studio.

Offline RichardTSchaefer

  • Community Beta
  • Master Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 10091
  • Karma: +764/-143
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #4 on: December 11, 2014, 02:29:24 pm »
I always though they should have a bitmask with a bit for each UI version in the AppStore.

Both the developer and MIOS should have access to this.
If support has many reported issues .. they could turn off the bit on a particular version
If the developer does not think it's ready for a new release ... they should be able to turn off the bit.

MIOS can decide how to initialize these bits when a new UI version is developed.

Offline Stuart

  • Beta Testers
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 728
  • Karma: +71/-2
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #5 on: December 11, 2014, 02:35:38 pm »
I did not get one of those notes - but I recently was able to make my plugin compatible with UI7.  BUT - It does not have the full functionality when running on UI7 because of bugs in UI7 (which Mios admit)

IF UI7 was a production release (are Mios actually claiming that ?) then I could understand why they would be pushing.  In reality it's still, at best, Beta.

I bit the bullet and upgraded my one and only Vera unit so that I could get UI7 working but in doing so have no way to retroactively test against UI5 (at least practically).   I did this because I thought UI7 would, by now, be production ready and that many users would start to migrate.  Continuing posts by developers way more knowledgeable than I - say otherwise and users are voting by downgrading.

@Mios - fix the architectural and code issues in UI7 and you can take the high ground.  Until then - be at least a little humble and do something to encourage the developers of plugins that make the overall product experience (at least on UI5) way, way better than would otherwise be the case.

Offline BOFH

  • Sr. Hero Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 2409
  • Karma: +112/-140
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #6 on: December 11, 2014, 03:37:37 pm »
I decided to see what all the brouhaha on Ui7 is about and upgraded my backup Vera3 to UI7.

First impressions definitely match those expressed by others.  I may run it just to have ZCOMBO's working and have remote notification from those.

On that note, any plug-in developers near Tampa, Fl who need to test their plugins for UI7 compatibility. If you can return it (unharmed of course) within 1 or 2 weeks, I'm willing to loan it out to you.

 
Vera3 UI5 UI7 Edge Plus
Trane TZEMT400AB32 | Schlage BE369 FE599 | GE 45601 45602 45603 45604 45606 45609 45631 | Intermatic HA01C HA03C HA05C HA07C CA600 CA3000 | Aeon DSC06106 | Telguard GDC1 | Foscam FI8910W FI8905W FI9821W | D-Link 930L | Wanscam JW0011 | ZModo ZPIBH13W

Offline futzle

  • Beta Testers
  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3260
  • Karma: +192/-9
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #7 on: December 11, 2014, 04:40:35 pm »
I had one of these emails too. I'm still thinking about how to respond, if at all. I've had a couple of public arguments on this forum with the name at the bottom of that email; it's not surprising to me that its text lacks in the tact department.

The big stumbling block for me is that developing for Vera is no longer fun.  Back in the heady frontier days of UI4 it was rewarding to see my devices integrate with Vera, and I could forgive the shoddy documentation and poor debugging environment because, well, it was new and surely MCV would fix it up in due course. Since then, the user base of Vera has grown and there are inevitably more users at the end of the experience bell curve that need more guidance with technical things like catching logs and debugging serial connections. Yet the MiOS tools are exactly the same. Heck, some of them, like the execrable "app store", are still rooted in UI5.

Free stuff from Vera isn't going to change the fun factor for me. Making the plugin infrastructure better and providing a stable, well-documented interface, a bug tracker that I can submit to and watch as bugs are fixed, and better debugging and logging would go a long way to fixing this. But there doesn't seem to be any stomach for it in Vera land.

I'm tempted to just let my plugins wither on the vine. If a plugin is important, users will complain and Vera will have to spend time patching it up. I've released all of my plugins under the GPL so it shouldn't be much effort for them (as they keep telling us). They've already done this for my WeMo plugin.

It saddens me to say that I don't really care any more. But as wonderful as this forum is, I don't owe Vera anything. Nor do I feel that they owe me anything in return. It gives me just a little comfort to conclude from their actions that they feel the same way.

Offline steets250

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 151
  • Karma: +3/-2
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2014, 04:54:07 pm »
As someone who has been able to greatly benefit from the plugins all of you have created, it annoys me greatly that Vera/MCV is not supporting the developers nearly as much (or at all) as they should be. Plugins are an important part of Vera, and without them, Vera is useless. MCV needs to realize how important you are and how many customers they will loose if they are removing and not helping the development of plugins. I wish everyone that has created a plugin luck with MCV. They need to get their act together. If plugin developers do decide to leave, please let customers know what platform that they are switching to, I and lots of others will be sure to follow.

Thank you for all of your hard work and dedication to Vera plugins!

Steven

Offline amg0

  • Beta Testers
  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3174
  • Karma: +209/-8
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2014, 05:07:29 pm »
Maybe my plugins are too small ...  but I did not get the letter.  now I am jealous  ;)

Offline garrettwp

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 6371
  • Karma: +227/-128
  • Vera 3, Lite, ISY994
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2014, 05:09:02 pm »
I had one of these emails too. I'm still thinking about how to respond, if at all. I've had a couple of public arguments on this forum with the name at the bottom of that email; it's not surprising to me that its text lacks in the tact department.

The big stumbling block for me is that developing for Vera is no longer fun.  Back in the heady frontier days of UI4 it was rewarding to see my devices integrate with Vera, and I could forgive the shoddy documentation and poor debugging environment because, well, it was new and surely MCV would fix it up in due course. Since then, the user base of Vera has grown and there are inevitably more users at the end of the experience bell curve that need more guidance with technical things like catching logs and debugging serial connections. Yet the MiOS tools are exactly the same. Heck, some of them, like the execrable "app store", are still rooted in UI5.

Free stuff from Vera isn't going to change the fun factor for me. Making the plugin infrastructure better and providing a stable, well-documented interface, a bug tracker that I can submit to and watch as bugs are fixed, and better debugging and logging would go a long way to fixing this. But there doesn't seem to be any stomach for it in Vera land.

I'm tempted to just let my plugins wither on the vine. If a plugin is important, users will complain and Vera will have to spend time patching it up. I've released all of my plugins under the GPL so it shouldn't be much effort for them (as they keep telling us). They've already done this for my WeMo plugin.

It saddens me to say that I don't really care any more. But as wonderful as this forum is, I don't owe Vera anything. Nor do I feel that they owe me anything in return. It gives me just a little comfort to conclude from their actions that they feel the same way.

I couldn't have said it better. My interest in development has disappeared and it's starting to get to be way to much work to support these on going issues. I'm burnt!

- Garrett

Offline akbooer

  • Beta Testers
  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 6387
  • Karma: +291/-70
  • "Less is more"
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2014, 05:44:39 pm »
The big stumbling block for me is that developing for Vera is no longer fun
Hits the nail on the head...

Quote
It saddens me to say that I don't really care any more.
...and drives it home.

The combination of UI7 and Vera Edge, have, well, driven us to the edge.
3x Vera Lite-UI5/Edge-UI7, 25x Fibaro, 23x TKB, 9x MiniMote, 2x NorthQ Power, 2x Netatmo, 1x Foscam FI9831P, 9x Philips Hue,
Razberry, MySensors Arduino, HomeWave, AltUI, AltHue, DataYours, Grafana, openLuup, ZWay, ZeroBrane Studio.

Offline SirMeili

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1052
  • Karma: +43/-20
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2014, 07:03:45 pm »
It saddens me that the plugin devs are so poorly treated and are so burnt out.

I suggest all devs remove their apps from the app store and create a public repo somewhere to get them. Installs would be harder, but then mios would feel it more with an empty appstore...


Sent from my XT1053 using Tapatalk

VeraLite (Live); ISY 994i (Live); Vera 3 (Waiting to replace VeraLite); Vera Edge (Waiting for all the bugs to be fixed); Xuan StackBox (Testing and waiting for more plugins and for it to mature)
Countless z-wave and insteon devices :D

Offline TC1

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1088
  • Karma: +90/-88
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2014, 09:10:28 pm »
Can't say I didn't see this coming.... Being from the tech world and involved in product development projects, it became obvious after awhile how dysfunctional MCV is as a company. I won't repeat my criticisms here.

This product would be useless without the many folks posting here. If the plug-in devs bail, so be it. It will make my decision to go to a product like HomeSeer easy then. Sure, many of the plug-ins there are paid for, but the company at least keeps the third-party developers involved.

Offline d55m14

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Karma: +8/-1
Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #14 on: December 12, 2014, 03:24:04 am »
Isn't there any value open source zwave controller where is possibile with minimal effort reuse all the plugin ?

Tnks Donato