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Author Topic: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email  (Read 83790 times)

Offline racarter

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #180 on: January 31, 2015, 05:34:18 am »
Are you referring to the rats that desert a sinking ship?  :P
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macrho

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #181 on: January 31, 2015, 05:34:58 am »
... don't want to be left with the rats :D

No, no.  You have that wrong.  It's the rats that go first  :D

from my favorite movie of all time: But I'm not a rat, Agent Kujan.

Offline airedale

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #182 on: January 31, 2015, 08:09:49 am »
OK, let's call a spade a spade...

I paid for the Automator App and painfully used it for well over a year. Thing is, I used it because it seemed like a good alternative to Vera's own app and wanted to justify paying for it. It was a buggy and slow experience for me most of the time, but I kept hoping for updates to come out.

I don't know about the rest of you, but the app and implementation was poor at best compared to some of the other apps out there. Specifically authentication was broken when you switched between networks and you'd have to force kill the app and restart it. Browsing through rooms and devices was slow and buggy.

The VeraMate app is light years ahead of Automator and is continually developed. There were long stretches of time between updates on the Automatir app and they didn't improve much.

I think competition has gotten so strong and the time and effort to get that app up to something that is worth paying for has passed.

I'm sorry to see anyone leave our community, especially because of poor support from Vera, but it is not a loss in terms of an available app. It may actually help new comers not experience a bad 3rd party app.

Offline akbooer

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #183 on: January 31, 2015, 08:38:22 am »
I don't know about the rest of you, but the app and implementation was poor at best compared to some of the other apps out there. Specifically authentication was broken when you switched between networks and you'd have to force kill the app and restart it. Browsing through rooms and devices was slow and buggy.
Agreed.  I got it because it seemed to cover all device types comprehensively, unlike many other apps, and accessed things like .json files.  But I soon stopped using it because, actually, it wasn't a good user experience for some of the problems you mentioned.

Quote
I think competition has gotten so strong and the time and effort to get that app up to something that is worth paying for has passed.
I'm a HomeWave fan, myself.  There are certainly good (better) alternatives to Automator now.
 
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Offline TC1

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #184 on: January 31, 2015, 12:08:40 pm »
Quote
I don't know about the rest of you, but the app and implementation was poor at best compared to some of the other apps out there.

Gee, I think we all know a product just like that still in beta....  ::)

Offline airedale

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #185 on: January 31, 2015, 02:07:41 pm »
OK... so this is definitely more concerning to see...

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,30471.0.html

Offline BOFH

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #186 on: January 31, 2015, 02:13:13 pm »
+1 as it's my main way of accessing both Vera's. Can't say I didn't see it coming considering Garrett's involvement in the OpenHab thread. Luckily the latest beta works very well for what I need it to do.
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Offline TC1

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #187 on: January 31, 2015, 02:32:13 pm »
+1 as it's my main way of accessing both Vera's. Can't say I didn't see it coming considering Garrett's involvement in the OpenHab thread. Luckily the latest beta works very well for what I need it to do.

Yup. The reality is that the only thing Vera has going for it is that MiOS spent the $$$ to join the Z-wave alliance and get access to the proprietary code that deals with secure communications (locks, etc). OpenHab proves that a group of like-minded folks could do a better job of building the automation stack and interfaces. Vera is nothing more than the Z-wave stack at this point. I'm surprised that the OpenHab folks haven't taken up a collection to get the proper Z-wave license to do locks on their own and use any USB Z-wave stick. But I guess that's the purpose of OpenHab, to remain vendor and protocol neutral.

Offline racarter

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #188 on: January 31, 2015, 02:46:52 pm »
This is starting to get serious.  From what I see on this thread (and from personal experience) MCV are all talk.  When are they going to wake up and smell the coffee?  Or is it already too late..?

Indigo, Vera Edge (for Datamine only), Everspring and TKBHOME socket switches, SM103 door detectors, Homepro ZRP210 appliance modules, Fibaro relay switches, EZMotion, Heatmiser thermostats, Netatmo Weather, Camera and Healthy Home, Hikvision DVR/CCTV, Sonos, Texecom, Diax motorised deadlock.

macrho

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #189 on: January 31, 2015, 04:16:01 pm »
Damn, no more purchases of iOS or Android Vera apps, always bought all of them to help support the cause.
Waiting on my ODROID-C1 to begin working with OpenHAB and looking at having Vera just do the z-wave portion
Sad, a thread that started off so positively but seems to have wound up with nothing but hot air
Some heavyweights have left the building.

Offline garrettwp

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #190 on: January 31, 2015, 04:38:07 pm »
I'll still be around, but my time in development will be spent elsewhere.

- Garrett


Offline JoeyD

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #191 on: January 31, 2015, 05:22:10 pm »
I may be taking an unpopular position here, but here goes....allow me to ramble.

Quote from: TC1
Yup. The reality is that the only thing Vera has going for it is that MiOS spent the $$$ to join the Z-wave alliance and get access to the proprietary code that deals with secure communications (locks, etc). OpenHab proves that a group of like-minded folks could do a better job of building the automation stack and interfaces. Vera is nothing more than the Z-wave stack at this point.

No offense to OpenHab...but OpenHab has not "proved" much of anything from the point of view that is Vera's primary purpose: a retail product.  What I mean by that is, openHAB does not appear to be able to pass the Grandma test any time soon:  Can I go to, buy an "openhab" controller and door lock for my Mom as a gift, and then walk away and wash my hands of it?   That's even quite ambitious for Vera, but they are much closer to such a reality.

Opensource projects will always have certain advantages over retail, commercially supported products.  On the other hand, they will have disadvantages.   The "power users" of course tend to gravitate to the strengths of opensource vs. those of retail products, so it's not surprising to see the most advanced power users start to gravitate to openHAB.

This is from the openHAB features page:

Quote from: openHAB Features
openHAB does not try to replace existing solutions, but rather wants to enhance them - it can thus be considered as a system of systems. It therefore assumes that the sub-systems are setup and configured independently of openHAB as this is often a very specific and complex matter (including "pairing" processes, direct device links etc.). Instead, openHAB focuses on the "daily use" side of things and abstracts from the devices themselves.

In other words, it is not openHAB's mission to get into the "very specific and complex matter" doing one of the core features required of home automation: actually binding devices physically to "your home".  It basically leaves that matter to the retail products to handle.

Must be nice to "assume" that such minor details are all already taken care of by someone else.  And if it's not?  Send the user to "the other guy" for support.

All sarcasm aside, this is not a slight on openHAB.  Far from it.  It's a fantastic initiative and I hope it continues to grow and become successful. I may even get involved myself.  My point is that the primary concerns for openHAB are simply not the same as those for a product like Vera...although there is of course overlap.  So sure, can a group of "like minded" folks with passion come up with a better "automation" scheme and a more widely accepted interface than Vera?  No doubt.  At least, I have no doubt it is / will be a better scheme for highly technically inclined individuals.

The way I see it, the community here at micasaverde forums would love to see Vera's controller products grow to be

1) More stable when lots of plug-ins, devices are utilized (the device hardware issue).
2) More robust from an automation standpoint.
3) Of course, everyone has their own idea of what "their ideal" UI looks and acts like.  (Vera is in a tough spot here...)
4) Continue to support end-user extensibility with publishable applications.

I do not see any reason why Vera cannot continue to  improve on all fronts.  As has already been discussed, it takes a willingness from Vera to reliably communicate with the community and consider constructive feedback.  It also takes patience from the community and understanding that while we may be the most passionate customers, we are not Vera's only customers.

I have had nothing but a positive experience with the Vera team over the past few weeks since the advent of this thread.  No, all of my inquiries are not yet answered in full, but they have all ben acknowledged.  I for one will continue to actively support Vera with my little plug-ins and will continue to use Vera as my primary home controller.  I will also continue to have a dialog with Vera about what issues I find, improvements I'd like to see, etc.




Offline intveltr

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #192 on: January 31, 2015, 05:36:01 pm »
He has a pretty good point there but didn't say where he's going.
If I can find out where everyone is going with this exodus, I'll join along, don't want to be left with the rats :D

The other contenders in the HA hub space that I know of all have their issues as well, and for being one of the cheaper options Vera does all right.  It's still the system I'd recommend for "growing into HA", starting small and adding devices and complexity over time.  What I'd like to see from Vera as a developer has aready been mentioned here: support from the company in terms of proper documentation, bug tracking, access to expertise. Beefier hardware for larger installations.  A leaner, faster UI. Better automation logic (something between Lua and the current basic Scene functionality).  But for now I'll make do with what there is.
   
I haven't seen any greener pastures out there.  OpenHAB looks promising from an architectural perspective and I think they have the right vision, but it does need some maturity, especially in the ease of use department.  I'm sure that's coming, though.
HomeWave is available in the App Store!  Turn your iPhone/iPad into an easy-to-use remote control for Vera.

Offline BOFH

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #193 on: January 31, 2015, 06:38:13 pm »
I agree. For now Vera works well for my needs. Of course I'm sad to see Garrett spending his considerable development talent on something other than AuthomationHD for Vera but at least the app is available and stable and works pretty well for what I use it for. Since Garrett never asked for a dime for his work, I can fully understand him devoting his development efforts on the OpenHab setup for his own needs.

Now if an AuthomationHD for Openhab version pops up, I will have to very seriously look into that platform. :) 
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Offline osmosis

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Re: UI7 - "Dear MiOS Development Partner" email
« Reply #194 on: January 31, 2015, 07:00:33 pm »
On the thread of " what people want the UI to look like" I remember a few years ago for ui5 there was someone ( a company ) that had 4 mock up the prospective interfaces and every one of them was better than what we got.  And a LOT better than ui7.  I think some folks want everything on one page, but as minimalistic as possible and others want a few windows that open other windows. I remember the old GEOS shell for dos with the ability to make groups of icon groups for everything to window blinds or what I currently use Rainmeter with skins for  win 8.1.
I believe we all want similar functionality - powerful - with the ability to plug play, point click configure new devices yet manipulate those devices and their interaction to whatever degree or not we want.
A robust unit with a skinable shell would flavor everyone. Maybe segregate the system into one UI for setup and one UI for monitoring and operation. With the default UI a moveable addable windowed interface with a setup icon to go there. As it is now its all crammed together.