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Author Topic: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help  (Read 8384 times)

Offline lad

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3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« on: February 09, 2015, 10:54:28 am »
I have to switches controlling the one light in one of my rooms. Here's the photo ? http://i.imgur.com/3V7L5XB.jpg .
Look like I can't use the Linear WS15Z-1 like the other rooms. What are my options? Thanks.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 12:31:10 pm by lad »

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #1 on: February 10, 2015, 09:53:02 am »
I would need to see a more specific diagram of this circuit's wiring to be sure, but I'm fairly confident that this can be rewired to use a Linear WS15Z-1 Z-Wave Wall Switch and a Linear WT00Z-1 Z-Wave 3-Way Remote.

What country are you in. The WS15Z-1 is a U.S. switch, but that is not U.S. NEC standard wiring colors. I think that they are standard U.K. and Singaporean colors, but those are 220VAC which is not compatible with the WS15Z.

Offline lad

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #2 on: February 10, 2015, 12:25:37 pm »
I'm in the US actually. Not sure how to go about finding out the circuit's wiring diagram.
I've actually swap out the switches in my other rooms with the WS15Z-1. But I'm stuck with this one because of the different wires setup.

Well, from looking at this, http://i.imgur.com/gT2sLBa.jpg, I'm guessing the two blue wires are line (hot) and the red/orange wire is the traveler. There are no neutral/ground.
I tried but the WS15Z-1 doesn't work without a neutral.
« Last Edit: February 10, 2015, 12:34:32 pm by lad »

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #3 on: February 10, 2015, 07:14:22 pm »
I'm in the US actually. Not sure how to go about finding out the circuit's wiring diagram.
Not standard wiring has me a little concerned. Especially with your limited experience. You'll need to use a voltage detector or a multimeter and positively identify every wire in the circuit. Positively determine where the line comes in. I think it might be coming in at the fixture.

Quote
Well, from looking at this, http://i.imgur.com/gT2sLBa.jpg,
That's as good a guess as any, but that circuit could well be wired differently than that diagram.


Offline Remnkemi

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #4 on: February 24, 2015, 02:27:17 pm »
I have the same issue. A Portuguese "licensed" electrician wired my basement (and I'm in the US also) with one 14/3 wire to a Levity Decora 3 way dimmer switch and another 14/3 wire to the auxiliary Leviton switch. I'm pretty sure the load goes straight to one of the light fixtures then he used the white wire as a traveller between the 2 switches. As far as I can tell both the black and red wires are carrying the load.  Is it possible to still use a new Zwave switch? I searched all over for a diagram in this configuration and I couldn't find any suggestions.

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #5 on: February 25, 2015, 09:20:53 am »
It is highly likely that you can use a Z-Wave switch of some kind. There are very few wiring scenarios that make the use of any type of Z-Wave switch impossible.

While you may be "pretty sure" you are not positive. Furthermore, your description does not describe a working circuit, though this may simply be language issue.

As I stated in a previous post, you also need to use a voltage detector or multimeter to positively identify each wire in your circuit. If you then post a diagram, even a hand-drawn one, that is clearly labeled, I/someone could advise you.

Offline becky

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #6 on: February 25, 2015, 11:01:27 am »
I'm piggy-backing on this post because I was looking at the 3-way switches on amazon that you posted. We haven't installed 3-ways yet, only single pole switches and I'm curious about which ones to get. We have single pole Linears in two of the bedrooms, and the discounted price on Amazon had me intrigued.

So for a 3-way the two switches you posted will work?

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #7 on: February 25, 2015, 11:14:57 am »
I'm piggy-backing on this post because I was looking at the 3-way switches on amazon that you posted. We haven't installed 3-ways yet, only single pole switches and I'm curious about which ones to get. We have single pole Linears in two of the bedrooms, and the discounted price on Amazon had me intrigued.

So for a 3-way the two switches you posted will work?
Yes. With the Linear switches 3-way or more circuits are supported by using one or more Linear WT00Z-1 Z-Wave 3-Way In-Wall Remote Switch(one button scene controller) along with a single Linear WS15Z-1 Z-Wave Wall Switch, White or a single Linear WD500Z-1 Z-Wave 500-watt Wall Mount Dimmer Switch, White.

Attached is a wiring diagram.

Offline becky

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #8 on: February 25, 2015, 04:17:13 pm »
Sweet, thank you. My husband handles the hardware part of our automation, I just do the programming end. So I wasn't sure which ones to order and this helped.

Offline Remnkemi

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #9 on: March 03, 2015, 03:17:07 pm »
While you may be "pretty sure" you are not positive. Furthermore, your description does not describe a working circuit, though this may simply be language issue.
What I attempted to describe was a 3 way circuit without a neutral in either box. I found a diagram online that I think represents the wiring I have. I assume I have no way to know without taking my ceiling apart.

I took pictures of the wiring that I can see. Let me try to describe what I can find. Just keep in mind I am very new to this.
There is one circuit breaker that controls the lights for 2 rooms, both have 3 way switches. The hall/stairs lights are controlled from another circuit breaker but it also has 3 way switches. All boxes have only one 12-3 wiring to each switch. The voltage detector gave me a positive response on all contacts/wires. I have no idea why.

I decided to remove the Lutron slave switch in room 1 and leave the Lutron Maestro MAW-603 switch in place. The voltage on the slave switch gave me B:123v, W:0.6, R:0.7. (Lights don't turn on without the slave switch). When I connected the red and black on the slave switch, lights went on and the multimeter readings on the master Maestro switch gave me B:114v, W:0.7, R:124v. Then I turned off the lights and I got B:2v, R:124v, W:63v. I did the same for room 2 but I didn't take out the slave switch. I got B:124v, W:124v, R:85v. I did the same for the stairs and I got B:125v, W:37v, R:125v. Then I tried it again with the stairs light off and I got B:124v, W:124v, R:0.4v. I don't know what to make of these readings.

Here are some pictures. Can a Z-wave switch work without a neutral? What should I do?


Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #10 on: March 03, 2015, 03:26:49 pm »
While you may be "pretty sure" you are not positive. Furthermore, your description does not describe a working circuit, though this may simply be language issue.
What I attempted to describe was a 3 way circuit without a neutral in either box. I found a diagram online that I think represents the wiring I have. I assume I have no way to know without taking my ceiling apart.

I took pictures of the wiring that I can see. Let me try to describe what I can find. Just keep in mind I am very new to this.
There is one circuit breaker that controls the lights for 2 rooms, both have 3 way switches. The hall/stairs lights are controlled from another circuit breaker but it also has 3 way switches. All boxes have only one 12-3 wiring to each switch. The voltage detector gave me a positive response on all contacts/wires. I have no idea why.

I decided to remove the Lutron slave switch in room 1 and leave the Lutron Maestro MAW-603 switch in place. The voltage on the slave switch gave me B:123v, W:0.6, R:0.7. (Lights don't turn on without the slave switch). When I connected the red and black on the slave switch, lights went on and the multimeter readings on the master Maestro switch gave me B:114v, W:0.7, R:124v. Then I turned off the lights and I got B:2v, R:124v, W:63v. I did the same for room 2 but I didn't take out the slave switch. I got B:124v, W:124v, R:85v. I did the same for the stairs and I got B:125v, W:37v, R:125v. Then I tried it again with the stairs light off and I got B:124v, W:124v, R:0.4v. I don't know what to make of these readings.

Here are some pictures. Can a Z-wave switch work without a neutral? What should I do?

A z-wave on/off switch will never work without a netrual 3way or not. You need to run a neutral or install the z-wave device in the light box on the ceiling were both power and neutral are located. In wall relay in this case.

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #11 on: March 03, 2015, 03:32:26 pm »
Can a Z-wave switch work without a neutral? What should I do?
I could make a guess, based on your pictures, but I won't.

Yes, There are incandescent Z-Wave dimmers from GE/Jasco and Leviton that can work without a neutral. There is also the Aeon microswitch that can be installed at the light, where the neutral is. The Aeon would work if your wiring is like that in your first diagram.

My recommendation is to get someone with more experience with household electrical, or an electrician to do this for you. Perhaps your Portuguese electrician could help.

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #12 on: March 03, 2015, 04:18:33 pm »
Can a Z-wave switch work without a neutral? What should I do?
I could make a guess, based on your pictures, but I won't.

Yes, There are incandescent Z-Wave dimmers from GE/Jasco and Leviton that can work without a neutral. There is also the Aeon microswitch that can be installed at the light, where the neutral is. The Aeon would work if your wiring is like that in your first diagram.

My recommendation is to get someone with more experience with household electrical, or an electrician to do this for you. Perhaps your Portuguese electrician could help.

I thought in a 3-way setup (I have installed and still use a GE 3way dimmer in my house) that a neutral was still required somewhere along the line, but I could be wrong. Maybe the aux, switch needed it or something.

Offline Z-Waver

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #13 on: March 03, 2015, 04:28:56 pm »
I thought in a 3-way setup (I have installed and still use a GE 3way dimmer in my house) that a neutral was still required somewhere along the line, but I could be wrong. Maybe the aux, switch needed it or something.
You are correct. A neutral is required for the GE/Jasco 45610 Aux switch, which would be used in 3-way with the 45612 dimmer. The 45612 itself does not require a neutral.

Offline Remnkemi

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Re: 3-way switches replacment and wiring help
« Reply #14 on: March 03, 2015, 05:10:44 pm »
I forgot to mention, there are multiple recessed lights in each room, not one light switch in the middle where I believe the light source is going to. I assume then I wouldn't know exactly where the source is going to without taking everything apart.