We have moved at community.getvera.com

Author Topic: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction  (Read 16043 times)

Offline Roger.NET

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #15 on: February 05, 2010, 02:54:47 pm »
I really hate to show another product here but I just would like to point out the clean easy to use interface by HomeRemote.

Vera hardware is 10X better. It has more capabilities and using a USB Z-Wave dongle means when newer versions of Z-Wave are released, we only need to replace the dongle!

http://www.hawkingtech.com/images/hrpro/hrps1_02_webui.jpg

Offline Jacobly

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #16 on: February 05, 2010, 03:23:14 pm »
Thanks for the GUI screen shot roger! It looks great and non-fuzzy which is nice.....

Since I posted my opinion of the new GUI on the SQ Remote Beta testing site, I'll go ahead and quote what I said there before:

" Overall, I kinda think that the MCV UI is at an impasse. The days of having the Setup and Control functions of Vera on the same UI are over, in my opinion. The more functionality that the MVC supports, the more the one GUI is going to become busy. I really think the there needs to be, at least, two separate parts of Vera's UI. One for Setup and the other for Control. (Who knows, maybe the MIOS Marketplace with it's own UI too)

I have reserved judgment of the new GUI till I had a chance to play with it for a while. I have to agree with many of the previous statements made above. I think the new GUI is far too busy. One of my most loathed features, other than it being flash, is the zoom in zoom out idea. I find this concept does not work very good unless you are using a Multi-Touch device. It just seems clunky without more fluid control.

I would like to revert back to .980, but since I already lost my Door Lock on the upgrade, I am afraid I will need to do other work-a-rounds (Like William) to get Vera to work like it used to....

I suppose I shouldn't complain. After all, this is a Beta program. "

My 2c.......
Z-Wave enthusiast

Offline Roger.NET

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #17 on: February 05, 2010, 03:33:12 pm »
I love that idea!  There should be two different UI's.  One for Control and One for Configuration.  In fact the screen shot I posted does that.  Vera should be simple.  Don't overload it with feature very few will use.

My Biggest Wish.  Make Vera easily controlled by external devices.  What I mean is Create an WebService on Vera that allows other computers to send control commands and in return Vera will report on controls.  This would make programming a Media Center Control system a lot easier.

Offline michaelk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #18 on: February 05, 2010, 04:04:30 pm »
I love that idea!  There should be two different UI's.  One for Control and One for Configuration.  In fact the screen shot I posted does that.  Vera should be simple.  Don't overload it with feature very few will use.

My Biggest Wish.  Make Vera easily controlled by external devices.  What I mean is Create an WebService on Vera that allows other computers to send control commands and in return Vera will report on controls.  This would make programming a Media Center Control system a lot easier.

I third the idea of breaking the setup out form the "dashboard". I'm not to bothered by the new dashboard with the graphical representation of my house. But the setup side is a bit too complex.

On your wish- I thought the point of UPNP was to allow just that?  Although it's all a bit over my head I thought vera made everything standard so other UPNP ready things could interact. Also I'm pretty sure there's ewebcalls to sent commands and get back data. Is that what you mean?

http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/UI_Notes

Offline Jacobly

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 131
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #19 on: February 05, 2010, 04:06:19 pm »
I kinda think that is the way MiOS is trying to head.... With the explosion of connected mobile devices over the past couple of years, it only makes sense to make sure your controller can be controlled via as many of those wireless devices as possible....Carrying a laptop around a house to control your lights really doesn't make that much sense. The computer should be for setup and configuration of Vera.

I really think they are trying to make their push to the mobile space by coming up with Native Apps for iPhone OS and Android. Blackberry is loosing market share quickly, but I can understand the need to keep supporting the WAP Smartphone plug in.

Anyway, thanks for the support of separate GUIs. I really think it makes the best sense, even though it does mirror an OS. (IE Desktop vs System Preferences/Control Panel) I really don't think it is too geeky of an idea for the less-tech-savvy user. It just opens up more possibilities on the Control GUI side......

So there ya go, I guess this post now has 4 of my Cents! ;)
Z-Wave enthusiast

Offline mcoulter

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 146
  • Karma: +1/-1
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #20 on: February 05, 2010, 04:20:31 pm »
I agree with finding a UI User layout that is more along the lines of the Hawking model that Roger showed.  The Hawking box was my first Zwave controller before finding out about Vera.  The Schlage interface is similar now as I think both companies are using Moshi for their services.  I think that their UI is perfect.  The reasons that I prefer Vera are: 1) I like the separate dongle to register new devices (Schlage kinda pulls that off). 2) I like that Vera is interested in integrating just about everything (as long as they are able to prioritize it all). 3) I like that they offer a free service as well as paid options.  4) Customization has a future in Vera.

If Schlage opens themselves to more device inclusions and types I would lean back towards them.

But I am still behind the Vera initiative if we can agree on main goals and help steer this thing in the right direction.  Overall, I believe that MCV has the best track record of listening to their customer base.   

Offline wseverino

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 854
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Da Man, Da Myth, Da Legend - in his own mind!
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2010, 07:15:58 pm »
I hate to say this since I have been using Vera since it was first released......I agree on the new UI being a step backwards. the layout is nice but I am more concerned with it executing in a timely manner which at this point in time it does not. Waiting 30 to 40 seconds for a device to go on is not acceptable. Something has to be done to get the memory usage down. 
My ZWave Network: Too friggin big to list.....

Offline strangely

  • Beta Testers
  • Master Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3722
  • Karma: +34/-2
  • Vera 1,3 & V light
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2010, 09:36:00 pm »
I've been using the new interface for about 2 weeks now due to being a square connect beta tester. Didn't like the new learning curve to start with but now i 'm starting to think its better for configuration purposes, and with some tweaks then this should help to sell it better.
 Now obviously having the luxury of of the SC app helps a lot as i dont use the interface much at all except for configuration etc. I'm sure more people will start to use it in this way (with an iPhone or similar). I think i heard that the SC guys will be coding the DC software for other platforms anyway!

And for the crowd that would like to use this on a wall panel etc (me included eventually) then i believe you will see many more dedicated apps that will interface with it in the same way the iPhone SC app does (and then wont have to worry about flash!)

I'm sure MCV could also make something as a cross between the mobile interface (which works well on a PC anyway) and the full blown interface that used to be there before UI3.
Kwickset locks, HA01C, HA14C, HA02C, HA03C, HA05C, HA04C, HA07C, HA09C, Aeon HEM, GE 45604, 45606, 45609, ZDP100, VRF01-1LZ, WDTC-20, HA18WD, WDHA-12R, HRDS1, HM-TS001, AC1-ZW, TV-IP110, BL-C210A, LUUP control- EtherRain8, DSC Alarm, HDMI matrix, HR24-200, Panasonic TV, SQblaster

Offline joserpaq

  • Sr. Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 47
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #23 on: February 06, 2010, 11:42:42 am »
In my opinion vera or mios should really be a slim down appliance that quickly responds to commands and has as little overhead as possible and it can't do that with a heavy graphical interface. I'd like to see a simple interface and can be used to manage the network (nodes, scenes, timed events) and thats it. Leave leave the graphical interface to apps like sq connect. if the user wants to log in to turn things on or off from a web gui then they will have a simple panel like the /mobile interface but if they want something fancier they can useand  a third party app even if that app is also released by the micasa team. That way we don't loose performance just to have a fancy UI that most consumers won't use anyway. I think most user will interact with the system using a phone or other type of remote most of the time and only use the web gui to manage changes on the network.

My opinion
Vera, 30 Leviton Nodes (dimmers, switches, zone/scene controllers, combo controllers), Schlage, 3N1 Motion, Water sensor, Techniku shades

Offline Roger.NET

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 58
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #24 on: February 06, 2010, 11:58:45 am »
I like your idea.  Leave the interface simple and fast.  The MCV team could work on making their own external interface and sell it. 

The path we are headed down right now is the same mistake Microsoft made.  They took the XP core and slapped on a new interface.  This was Vista and it was a horrible disaster because it was SO SLOW AND BUGGY.  Customers preferred XP even though it wasn't as pretty because it was faster and less of a resouce hug.

Please learn from their experience.

Offline mikeholczer

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #25 on: February 06, 2010, 12:06:31 pm »
I like your idea.  Leave the interface simple and fast.  The MCV team could work on making their own external interface and sell it. 

The path we are headed down right now is the same mistake Microsoft made.  They took the XP core and slapped on a new interface.  This was Vista and it was a horrible disaster because it was SO SLOW AND BUGGY.  Customers preferred XP even though it wasn't as pretty because it was faster and less of a resouce hug.

Please learn from their experience.
The point you are missing is the Vista had those issue when it was released. Vera UI3 current in it's first public beta version.

I've very surprised by the reactions to the UI3 in these forums. Having purchased a home automation system, everyone here is a early adopter. I would have thought that early adopters would have a better understanding of the development process and what a beta version is. I think UI3 has some nice concepts. I admit the that they some work to do on polish and performance, but since the beta was released they have said they are working on those. I don't believe MCV was expecting everyone to start using this beta on there product system; this is evidenced by how they were carefully to include being ready to downgrade in their upgrade instructions.

Offline wseverino

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 854
  • Karma: +0/-0
  • Da Man, Da Myth, Da Legend - in his own mind!
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #26 on: February 06, 2010, 01:11:16 pm »
Mike I understand the beta stuff....my biggest gripe is the speed and the fact they released this to the public to test and the core interfaces do not work like the thermostat interface along with the lock interface. These are core components to vera and should have been tested before releasing to the public. The other stuff I don't care about such as motion sensor, etc. The fact is you get the core functions to where they work then send it out for testing.

My ZWave Network: Too friggin big to list.....

Offline umtauscher

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 223
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #27 on: February 06, 2010, 01:12:38 pm »
The point you are missing is the Vista had those issue when it was released.
Yes, and I never did get a Windows Vista EVER!
Vera UI3 current in it's first public beta version.
Yes, and it hasn't even Alpha quality. Its simply unusable.

When I purchase the Vera it was about 1 year after the initial releas. I thounght (stupid me) the the first problems where ironed out after that time.
What we are seeing here is getting form beta to alpha instead of finaly getting a release with most of the bug ironed out.

I now can say that every device z-wave device, that hasn't been especially been inspected and adapted by MVC doesn't work properly. - Well ok, statistic... I bought 2 devices that both didn't work. So 100% of them don't work. ;-)

I can not see, that there is any work done on making this thing more compatible - inspite of the so called "guarantee". That's what makes me so disappointed.

Just another of my 2 Ct.

Umtauscher

« Last Edit: February 06, 2010, 01:15:08 pm by umtauscher »

Offline michaelk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2010, 01:52:52 pm »
...

Please learn from their experience.
The point you are missing is the Vista had those issue when it was released. Vera UI3 current in it's first public beta version.

I've very surprised by the reactions to the UI3 in these forums. Having purchased a home automation system, everyone here is a early adopter. I would have thought that early adopters would have a better understanding of the development process and what a beta version is. I think UI3 has some nice concepts. I admit the that they some work to do on polish and performance, but since the beta was released they have said they are working on those. I don't believe MCV was expecting everyone to start using this beta on there product system; this is evidenced by how they were carefully to include being ready to downgrade in their upgrade instructions.

I get Beta. I’ve beta tested other things for years.

People shouldn’t be complaining that the BETA software as clearly stated by MCV isn’t finished quality- MCV by telling everyone it’s a Beta has said so quite publically. But they can express their concerns so that  they know the biggest issues.

That said- my comments have been nothing about bugs or speed or anything like that. Mostly I think the direction they have decided to go with the UI for setup is a poor choice. As above- I think the graphical interface for the former dashboard is a good start and obviously as a beta needs to be tweaked.

But I really thing the setup parts of the UI are a complex mess that needs to be simplified to be usuable. IMHO they should stop right where they are with that and figure out a better plan; the “dashboard” they should keep tweaking what they have to make it better but the setup ui to add devices, creates scenes, and the like is a nightmare and should be scrapped and started over. The idea above to have 2 separate UI’s- one for the dashboard and another for setup above seemed like a good idea of something to explore.  Maybe there are other ideas that would be better also. But clicking a million tabs to add one setting on each tab is just annoying. Maybe just something as simple as a full screen popup to fit everything on one screen would be helpful. I’m not a UI designer so I don’t know the best approach. But I do think the current setup UI would annoy me every time I need to use it.

If they get the bugs kicked from the dashboard part I’d “put up with” the setup as it is. But this is early on so why should they create something people are “settling” for? Why not try to make it as good as the dashboard? So I share my opinion with the hope they find it constuctive and figure out how to make the product as best as it can be.

Offline michaelk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 633
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: New UI: A Giant step - In the wrong direction
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2010, 02:34:54 pm »
although interesting that seems now there's a vera 2 floating around at retail  that comes with the Beta software installed....