Author Topic: UI3 icons proposal  (Read 23633 times)

guest4733

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #15 on: February 13, 2010, 03:51:34 am »
I'd also like mouse scroll wheel zoom. 
This is a good idea shady, but the zoom in and out using the mouse scroll will have the same limitations like the slider.

Offline huwu

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #16 on: February 13, 2010, 06:23:37 am »
Just to give you a hint for UI4 and to show you that your suggestions do not really address the pain with UI3.

Please see the screenshot of my ground floor taken on a 13" MacBook running Safari fullscreen (shrinked to meet the 125kb).

You see that some rooms are too small for all devices and scenes, it's not possible to arrange the icons in a tidy way, the pushbuttons on the left side of the icons are too small to hit them. 

Alex, do you really think it's a good idea to integrate temperature and status in these already too small icons?

huwu
My Z-Wave:Vera3, VeraEdge, 4*Dimmer, 14*RollerShutter, 4*PlugIn,9*Binary, 8*SmokeSensor, 2*Remote, 1*Siren, 1*RangeExtender, 1*Sensor, 1*BatterySwitch. Devices from:Duewi, Merten, HomePro, Trickle, Everspring, Fibaro, Aeon, Vision and MiCasa Verde

Offline stoney

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #17 on: February 13, 2010, 11:29:55 am »
How about the "Universal" NO Slash?


Offline guessed

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #18 on: February 13, 2010, 11:52:52 am »
@Alex, you may also want to look and/or work with the SQ Remote lads.  Whilst they model the "logical" room, or something that could be used for a room, they don't force that on you in the same way, they don't attempt to make your room "look" like the layout of a particular floor (even the public sample images show this).

They instead model something more akin to a "space" to put things, and that space has some limits (due to iPhone resolution) as well as some ways to escape/expand the limits somewhat (tabbing that is mimicked in Vera's Desktop UI)

Into these spaces, you put your Controls as the UI representation of the Devices in Vera.  It works very much like a traditional UI/Data split with Vera's Devices as Data)

The Icons are not restricted to be of a uniform geometry.  A light switch looks more like a Windows/Mac or Linux "Button", whilst other complex components are free to be larger/more componentized for interaction (like a Thermostat)


@huwu's layout above shows exactly why [IMHO] you need to avoid "Room", as it triggers people to force their layout to look like their house.  A bathroom, will be tiny in their drawing.... even though it might have controls for Lighting, Fans, a Thermostat control and maybe Underfloor heating

It also doesn't scale.  As a house gets larger, people have to "zoom out" to fit the house onto the Designer, or "Pan" around to find something.  As you scale out, your controls get unusable, as you Pan, you loose things easily.

Working with the SQ Remote lads will give you more information than I can present here about their model.

This model may require Vera's backend to change to permit separation of the Device from the Rendition/Control in order to support this type of thing natively.

You can also see some of their older UI bits in this posting:

   http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=1819.45

guest4733

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #19 on: February 13, 2010, 12:00:27 pm »
You see that some rooms are too small for all devices and scenes, it's not possible to arrange the icons in a tidy way, the pushbuttons on the left side of the icons are too small to hit them. 

Alex, do you really think it's a good idea to integrate temperature and status in these already too small icons?

huwu

huwu - I understand you are not interested in using sections for floors, because this will create some more space to accommodate everything on a bigger zoom level, and the info inside the icons will be readable.

The solution would be to increase the zoom level and to pan left and right if  want to see all the devices.

Anyway in the example you provided with IP symcom they have the same problem in their dashboard, and they use sections too.

What do you think?

guest4733

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #20 on: February 13, 2010, 12:23:01 pm »
@Alex, you may also want to look and/or work with the SQ Remote lads.  Whilst they model the "logical" room, or something that could be used for a room, they don't force that on you in the same way, they don't attempt to make your room "look" like the layout of a particular floor (even the public sample images show this).

They instead model something more akin to a "space" to put things, and that space has some limits (due to iPhone resolution) as well as some ways to escape/expand the limits somewhat (tabbing that is mimicked in Vera's Desktop UI)

Into these spaces, you put your Controls as the UI representation of the Devices in Vera.  It works very much like a traditional UI/Data split with Vera's Devices as Data)

The Icons are not restricted to be of a uniform geometry.  A light switch looks more like a Windows/Mac or Linux "Button", whilst other complex components are free to be larger/more componentized for interaction (like a Thermostat)


@huwu's layout above shows exactly why [IMHO] you need to avoid "Room", as it triggers people to force their layout to look like their house.  A bathroom, will be tiny in their drawing.... even though it might have controls for Lighting, Fans, a Thermostat control and maybe Underfloor heating

It also doesn't scale.  As a house gets larger, people have to "zoom out" to fit the house onto the Designer, or "Pan" around to find something.  As you scale out, your controls get unusable, as you Pan, you loose things easily.

Working with the SQ Remote lads will give you more information than I can present here about their model.

This model may require Vera's backend to change to permit separation of the Device from the Rendition/Control in order to support this type of thing natively.

You can also see some of their older UI bits in this posting:

   http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=1819.45

from what I see on the forum a lot of people do not appreciate the house planner, because you can not see all the info at once and you suppose to zoom in to see some part of the information. I see a solution can be the tab using, but a question come in my mind: don't you have to choose a tab to see the part of the info inside? So instead navigating inside the window you have to navigate among tabs.

So what about mixing somehow the two concepts? To have rooms, and when the texts become not readable, then the devices to become not clickable but clicking on something to enlarge and center the room containing the clicked area.

Another options would be the list, but it appears to me  less practical.

Opinions?

Offline michaelk

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2010, 01:01:47 pm »
I like #3 with the info being shown.

also agree with what guessed say about default should be action not edit.

I think having status info shown is most important- but if you can get status info and a reasonable amount of text for name that would be perfect. (i'm not to found that the name gets cut off in #3).

I think the room motiff helps ID alot, but sometimes I have multiple lights in the same room and it would be more user friendly for visitors/wife/etc if the labels were always visible.

guest4733

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #22 on: February 13, 2010, 01:08:02 pm »
I like #3 with the info being shown.

also agree with what guessed say about default should be action not edit.

I think having status info shown is most important- but if you can get status info and a reasonable amount of text for name that would be perfect. (i'm not to found that the name gets cut off in #3).

I think the room motiff helps ID alot, but sometimes I have multiple lights in the same room and it would be more user friendly for visitors/wife/etc if the labels were always visible.

michaelk - I think it is a good idea of keeping visible the status and as much possible from the name. But what about the limitation for zoom out and the  "enlarge area on click"?

Offline michaelk

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #23 on: February 13, 2010, 02:19:27 pm »
sounds like a good idea- the enlarge on click- but i think you would need to have a way to return to the previous view when done.

that way people could create an overview type view and then click the relevent area to do what they need to do. and then go back to their default view easily.  hmmm... maybe just a way to get a defualt view set and then return to that all the time?

guest4733

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #24 on: February 13, 2010, 02:37:01 pm »
defualt view - sounds good. something like "view all" button now. In this position you can see the status of the devices, you can read the name maybe, but if the zoom level is under minimum, on click it should enlarge the clicked area, offering, as you said, an easy way to go back

Some other opinions?

Offline michaelk

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #25 on: February 13, 2010, 02:57:36 pm »
defualt view - sounds good. something like "view all" button now. In this position you can see the status of the devices, you can read the name maybe, but if the zoom level is under minimum, on click it should enlarge the clicked area, offering, as you said, an easy way to go back

Some other opinions?


probelm is that you apparnently can't set your zoom level and get it to stick with "view all". View all is basically zoom to fit everything.  maybe just include a default zoom level then?

guest4733

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #26 on: February 13, 2010, 03:13:49 pm »
But this "default zoom" should display all the rooms. Something like "view all". Or you mean, that OK would be to have one more level, defined by user?

Offline mikeholczer

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #27 on: February 13, 2010, 06:20:56 pm »
I second guessed's comment about going away from using the word "room" for the groupings of devices and scenes. I think giving that names make people feel like they need create a grouping for every physical room in their house and layout the UI to look like their house. If the groupings were just called "groups", I think it would not send new users down this group everything by the physical room there are in which I think can be a mistake particularly for scenes that may be better grouped by function.

I was also like to add that it would be nice to be able to assign a device or scene to multiple groups.

Offline michaelk

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #28 on: February 13, 2010, 10:05:28 pm »
But this "default zoom" should display all the rooms. Something like "view all". Or you mean, that OK would be to have one more level, defined by user?

I mean a user defined zoom level that they prefer.

to try and give a real world example- I experimented with using the new UI a couple different ways to suit my needs.

First I thought I'd set things up with the "rooms" being grouped by function. I had a room for devices I use all the time, another for least used things, another for rarely used things (like scenes for when I'm away on vacation), and another for stuff I never want to see (some in my house uses a the switch on a table lamp to turn on/off a particular lamp with a load sensing module. At other times i use the z-wave module to turn it off.  So at 3am each morning vera switches the module to off just in case someone turned it off at the lamp so vera syncs to the lamp state- but i NEVER have to see that scene). So I didn’t want to see all. In that case I wanted to basically default the zoom to just the “rooms” of things I use all the time, and also the things I sometimes use, but I could keep the rarely used and never used off the edge of the screen. If I needed them I could just drag the screen over to see them.

Second way I tried the new UI was by setting up a floorplan of my house. Thing is not everyone has a ranch with just one level. I have a basement, a ground floor, and a third floor. So I tried drawing all 3 floors side by side and then I wanted to just zoom so one was visible at a time. I could drag left or right to see the other.

In either case the full screen zoom left everything worthless to see. So I wish I had a way to lock a default zoom so I didn’t have to always zoom in to get a usable view.

I think others have mentioned the same sort of thing in other comments about wanting the UI to remember their last zoom level when they leave the browser and come back.

Offline huwu

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Re: UI3 icons proposal
« Reply #29 on: February 14, 2010, 03:05:07 am »
huwu - I understand you are not interested in using sections for floors, because this will create some more space to accommodate everything on a bigger zoom level, and the info inside the icons will be readable.

The solution would be to increase the zoom level and to pan left and right if  want to see all the devices.

Anyway in the example you provided with IP symcom they have the same problem in their dashboard, and they use sections too.

@Alex: Yes, because I don't want to switch screens. A floor plan based board should be able to represent even a bigger house without dividing a floor into sections like east - and west-wing. ;-)



@huwu's layout above shows exactly why [IMHO] you need to avoid "Room", as it triggers people to force their layout to look like their house.  A bathroom, will be tiny in their drawing.... even though it might have controls for Lighting, Fans, a Thermostat control and maybe Underfloor heating

@guessed: Isn't that is the deeper meaning of a floor plan?!

For me [IMHO] there is no better overview and navigation than a floor plan. The problem here is to design usable but still nice representations of technical devices.

SQ Remote has an ingenious design - on touch devices; and I'm really happy to be one of their beta testers. Having it on a PC could be a bit cumbersome.
My Z-Wave:Vera3, VeraEdge, 4*Dimmer, 14*RollerShutter, 4*PlugIn,9*Binary, 8*SmokeSensor, 2*Remote, 1*Siren, 1*RangeExtender, 1*Sensor, 1*BatterySwitch. Devices from:Duewi, Merten, HomePro, Trickle, Everspring, Fibaro, Aeon, Vision and MiCasa Verde