Beta and Pre-Release (Public) > UI4 Brainstorming & Discussion
Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
michaelk:
Hi Alex-
thanks for reaching out for everyone's opinion. I'm really happy and excited about the future of MCV that you are so open.
Apparently the plan is to punt the inclusion of "AND" in scene triggers to you and UI4 and not include it in the engine. (if enough of us complain about it since the powers that be dont feel it's a priority).
--- Quote from: javier on February 12, 2010, 07:13:35 pm ---
--- Quote from: Keeper on February 12, 2010, 06:56:38 pm ---I will appreciate if someone from MCV can help us see some light on the road map for back-end engine with possible ETA for a solution so that people with lack of resources (skill and/or time) to get into Lua game can plan accordingly. Looking fwd to a honest answer...
--- End quote ---
Believe it or not, this is not a back-end issue. The simplest way to achieve this kind of functionality would be with a code generator. Lua is a wonderfully regular and efficient language, so the only hard (really hard!) part is the UI that allows things that we haven't thought yet. After all, if it can do only what we've previously thought about, it would be easier to just write the code ourselves!
About plans for the backend, the main issues include:
* more options to communicate with devices
* better Internet capabilities (to talk with webservices, XML and maybe JSON...)
* enhancements to the Lua API
* always trying to make it faster and leaner
* and of course, bugfixes
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: micasaverde on February 12, 2010, 12:21:04 pm ---We just posted a new official announcement for discussion for UI4 where this can be discussed, and brought in a new UI team leader, Alex, to head up the project. But, based on these few comments, the challenge is clear with condensing all the opinions.
The suggestion is "focus on the fundamentals", but the recommended solution is to first work on a web generator for creating the UPNP/XML files for Luup plugins, and to support conditional and/or expressions in event triggers. But, out of the thousands of Vera users out there, it's less than 1% that does XML and Lua or even knows what a conditional expression is. So, many users would argue that putting the development effort here is not focusing on the fundamentals. In fact, in the discussions we've had in the past few days over UI3, many users have said get rid of plugins altogether, strip out event triggers for scenes because that's all too complicated for a mainstream product, and, for them, focusing on the fundamentals means just working on making the UI wizard style, rather than free form as it is now, so the range of tasks is limited to a simple a-b-c: add a device step 1, step 2; add a scene step 1, step 2; check off your notifications; that's it (similar to the Schlage UI).
Alex will do his best to sort out the various requests and wish lists and try to come come up with a UI that meets the needs of the novice user while not limiting the advanced user. I recommend this discussion continue in the new UI4 forum.
--- End quote ---
--- Quote from: micasaverde on February 12, 2010, 01:13:27 pm ---
--- Quote ---What could possibly be more "fundamental" than having a motion sensor turn on a light, but only when it's dark outside?
--- End quote ---
CMRancho, I'm going to step out and let Alex handle this in the UI4 discussion. It seems emotions are flamed right now, and I certainly don't want to stoke the fire higher. But I want to point out that our 3 biggest competitors are the Schlage LiNK, Leviton's ThinkEssentials/ControlThink, and the Hawking gateway. Schlage even has 5,000 retailers selling the LiNK. Not one of our competitors offers that feature of and/or conditional expressions. And from what I've seen the new gateways coming on the market don't support it either. Ours is the only gateway that even support conditional expressions at all (albeit with lua script for now). If you read the blogs and reviews of our competitors products, like the Schlage LiNK, there are criticisms, for sure, but I've never seen anybody criticize them for not support and/or conditional expressions. So, just remember that what is considered a fundamental feature for one user, isn't necessarily a fundamental feature for another user. But let's move on and discuss what is the best UI that everybody will like in the UI4 forum. I think Alex is going to be posting some concepts to get the ball rolling.
--- End quote ---
So I'll start the thread- please include the ability to use "AND" and not just "OR" for scene triggers.
thanks!
Mike
Keeper:
Well said (with amazing effort to gather and publish comments)
I second the motion with request for an agressive timline, if plausible
(Will buy first round for the team)
Thanks in advance
stoney:
OK...
In case Alex (Welcome aboard BTW)...nice to have some new blood...I mean a new individual to kick arou...I mean to pat on the back for great efforts! Whew!
I'll just have to repeat myself here. Other HA, Home control applications offer the user effective way of carrying out various device events other than through Timers.
We need a full compliment of user definable settings for our Z-wave devices within the framework / supervision of Vera.
"If motion is detected AND it is between 7:00 pm AND 7:00 am THEN Turn on bathroom lights."
We don't need timers to activate during the daylight hours on certain devices as an example.
I'd also like to be able to allow for scripting my own event to activate when conditions are right. If motion is detected or if a door is opened, then activate an alarm, voice text file, warning light, etc.
Some users would like some more tutorial assistance with regard to the Lua programming and how the plug-ins work and fit within the Vera environment.
That should get you started a bit.
Seriously, best wishes and glad to have you aboard!
Maartenvt:
Is it not possible to do it like Microsoft InfoPath. It is very simple to add conditions like AND, OR, IF, ELSE statements.
See screenshot
javier:
@Maartenvt: I've seen (and used) some UIs like that. Yes, they can work; but they are not as foolproof as might seem.
for example, you could read the criteria in your screenshot as:
--- Code: ---OrderSum > 500 and State = "CA" or OrderSum > 500 and State = "FL"
--- End code ---
but what does that mean?
is it left associative?:
--- Code: ---(((OrderSum > 500) and State = "CA") or OrderSum > 500) and State = "FL"
--- End code ---
or right?
--- Code: ---OrderSum > 500 and (State = "CA" or (OrderSum > 500 and (State = "FL")))
--- End code ---
or maybe some arbitrary (and hard to remember) precedence rule like "AND has precedence over OR", meaning:
--- Code: ---(OrderSum > 500 and State = "CA") or (OrderSum > 500 and State = "FL")
--- End code ---
this last one sounds right... but is that what are you specifying? if so, why can't you write:
--- Code: ---OrderSum > 500 and (State = "CA" or State = "FL")
--- End code ---
but adding parenthesis to the UI makes it ugly.... how could the user tell that a given OR should be operated 'before'? there are so many ugly solutions...
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
Go to full version