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Author Topic: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger  (Read 37279 times)

Offline jdmill5136

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #45 on: October 19, 2010, 02:37:32 pm »
Looking back at the history of this topic, I am also surprised that this feature has not been incorporated.

This is a killer for me though, because I agree with the above post. Without the ability to act on multiple conditions, this is just a fancy lighting remote. I set up systems like this for a living. I was interested in this system because of the cost advantage, but my customers don't want to have to pay someone to set up a simple scene because code has to be written. MCV may see their biggest competitors as Schlage and the like, But I think they would be closer to Homeseer with a little work.

Offline Anthony420

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #46 on: October 21, 2010, 11:09:30 am »
I promised myself some time ago I would no longer post on this topic out of frustration, but here I am again...    Whenever I see the highly-skilled programmers say how easy Lua is to write simple code I shake my head.  It is not easy.  It is a programming language that is as confusing as any other to non-programmers.  Sure, we can write code in macro languages, we understand combinational logic, but many of us have tried, and simply cannot effectively write lua code for vera scenes.

Regarding "I want to point out that our 3 biggest competitors are the Schlage LiNK, Leviton's ThinkEssentials/ControlThink, and the Hawking gateway.  Schlage even has 5,000 retailers selling the LiNK.  Not one of our competitors offers that feature of and/or conditional expressions."

What a poor excuse for not having a feature many (including myself, many times) have suggested will make Vera a MUCH more powerful solution.  I believe a pull-down logic sequencer, possibly with ( ) bracket elements for logical precision, would solve all the problems.   Please don't strive to be equal to Schlage or the others, that's why we purchased Vera in the fist place, because we expect it to be better, not equal.

Sorry for the rant.
Anthony


Offline umtauscher

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #47 on: October 21, 2010, 11:21:15 am »
Hi Anthony,

I promised myself the same thing.... :-(
Anyway, I don't think this is a rant at all. But I consider the Vera to be a dead product. There hasn't been a single (real) improvent since I own it (about 1 year).
I fact it has become more unsecure and even less capable since UI2.
If you have any suggestion for an alternative product please let me know.

Cheers
Wilhelm

Offline CMRancho

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #48 on: October 21, 2010, 11:35:20 am »
I have come to the same conclusions about Vera, and about MiCasaVerde as a company. We've all had a lot of fun, but it's time to call it - DOA.
Vera123beta; Schlage, Kwikset, TZEMT400; Linksys cams, Smarteye cams, HSM100; Aeon, Everspring, Cooper, Leviton, Intermatic, FortrezZ, Global Caché, USB-UIRT, Somfy, etc.

Offline Les F

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #49 on: October 21, 2010, 12:17:50 pm »

and the alternative is??,  (keep in mind, I can't spend $2500 for something, and I don't want a dedicated computer),,, so what can i buy for under $500 that can be put in a small cabinet and has  no disk drive that will do this.  I still hold out hope for Vera, but would have no problem moving to another solution if it exists.
To me Vera is CLOSE to meeting my requirements even though its missing some important features.
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Offline CMRancho

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #50 on: October 21, 2010, 12:33:56 pm »
Les, I agree with you that Vera is CLOSE - just as close as she was 18 months ago, and every bit as unreliable!

I don't like the idea of running a "dedicated" computer either. It's clear, though, that these crappy little cheap boxes MCV is using are not up to the task. I'm probably going to move to a software solution that will run on my computer. At least then I won't need to have my entire house be dependent on a $10 timer cycling the power to keep it from freezing!
Vera123beta; Schlage, Kwikset, TZEMT400; Linksys cams, Smarteye cams, HSM100; Aeon, Everspring, Cooper, Leviton, Intermatic, FortrezZ, Global Caché, USB-UIRT, Somfy, etc.

Offline wotsdisthing

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #51 on: October 21, 2010, 09:52:04 pm »
I am a new vera user, and am now delving into the world of sensor triggers.
Eager to setup some time conditional scenes, i want to turn on lights at night
when the motion sensor (a whole other story) is tripped, but obviously, not do
so during the day
 
   If (nighttime) and (motion detected) then turn on the light

But, lo, there is no and in sight.

I hereby wish to add my voice to the many in this thread asking for a AND,
either as a discrete component, or an example in Lua, or maybe even
just to have time slot configurations other than Sunset , Sunrise  ...
such as day and night ...

"all we are saying, is give please an and "

 "

Offline Anthony420

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #52 on: October 22, 2010, 12:55:35 pm »
As for alternatives...  I did a long-winded comparison of Vera to the Elk M1 system ( I have one of each) in my post  a while back

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=3145.msg16936#msg16936

Still don't have an opinion on which is better, they both have advantages and disadvantages.

I do have to admit that for what Vera does, and what it costs, it is serving me well at my second home.  I don't try to do too much with it, and have had reliable operation for a long time now.  That does weigh against some of the frustrations I have with features and such.  I'm gonna stick with it for sure until something else comes along that is clearly better.

Anthony

Offline michaelk

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #53 on: October 22, 2010, 07:50:52 pm »
Another potential alternative is homeseer.  It's a bit pricier but in the scheme of things not all that much. Software if you already have an always on pc going is cheaper than a vera I think. For those that dont want to run a full blown pc but might have a bit more money to spend can get a hometroller stand along box to do it all.  But if you are gonna plunk down 2 grand for zwave devices in the end than whats another few hundred for a controller you like to run it all? Vera seems to be missing that point but just trying to compete on price alone and not features. 

One of my earlier forays into home automation was with with homeseer software- its feature packed and there's a million plug ins and it works with like any bit of hardware known to man. It's reliable and their support is way better than vera's appears to be from the anecdotes on the forums here.

the PROBLEM with homeseer, beyond the higher cost than vera is it is way complicated (or at least it was years back).  I moved to vera because it was simpler. Thing is it's A LOT easier to to do and/or on homeseer than it is with vera.

So after all this time vera still is more complicated then that complicated beast to just make a simple conditional logic scene.

Let me steal Anthony's wording above because it describes my opinion perfectly:
...

I do have to admit that for what Vera does, and what it costs, it is serving me well at my ... home.  I don't try to do too much with it, and have had reliable operation for a long time now.  That does weigh against some of the frustrations I have with features and such.  I'm gonna stick with it for sure until something else comes along that is clearly better.

Anthony

Mike

Offline Anthony420

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #54 on: October 23, 2010, 11:04:57 am »
I always attempt to look at both sides of issues because history has shown me that most things are "issues" because they are complicated and can be viewed from different angles.  That said, in MCV's defense, I believe the following is likely true...

Each of us has our own comfort level with programming and technology in general.  No matter what MCV does, it is not likely that all of us will agree that it is the perfect mix of capabilities and ease-of-use. 

Also, as soon as they add the simple combinational logic and we start using it, we are going to see a universe of things we could do if they just add "one more simple thing..."  This will go on forever and they will never please us all.


That said, I still want and / or / if / then / else....

Anthony

Offline umtauscher

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #55 on: October 24, 2010, 07:17:03 am »
I will begin to test homeseer today.

Cheers
Umtauscher

Offline CMRancho

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #56 on: October 24, 2010, 12:55:37 pm »
I will begin to test homeseer today.

Cheers
Umtauscher
I'm planning to do the same thing as soon as I find the time. Are you going with the Pro version? Id like to hear how it goes for you.
Vera123beta; Schlage, Kwikset, TZEMT400; Linksys cams, Smarteye cams, HSM100; Aeon, Everspring, Cooper, Leviton, Intermatic, FortrezZ, Global Caché, USB-UIRT, Somfy, etc.

Offline pgrover516

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #57 on: October 24, 2010, 02:26:14 pm »
I'd love to hear your feedback as well
V1,V2,V3,VLite,Express Controls HSM-100,Intermatic HA20C, HA04C,HA02C,HA09, Leviton VRP15-1LW, VRS15-1LX,Home Manageables HM-TS001,Schlage FE599, Schlage BE369, Cooper RF9500, Aeon Labs Minimote, Schlage TZEMT400AB32MAA+more

Offline Anthony420

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #58 on: October 24, 2010, 04:56:22 pm »
You guys have started me thinking...

I see that there is a plugin for homeseer to connect to my Elk system, and I have the old z-wave dongle from Vera 1 that I can use.  If I take one of the many un-used PCs floating around the house for a trial, I can get this whole thing running for $250 or so.  The house is already Z-wave configured with the Elk.

I could probably keep myself busy for years playing with all the possible combinations of features....

Anthony

Offline umtauscher

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Re: Please include "AND" as a scene trigger
« Reply #59 on: October 30, 2010, 11:40:55 am »
Hi guys,

today I finally found the time to play around with homeseer. Because I only have a Linux box running around the clock, I decided to install it in a Virtual machine, which I can later shift to my linux box.

Homeseer runs as a service on Windows, but the complete userinterface is in a Webserver. So nothing new really. I put my Aeonlab Dongle which is already configured and used by my Vera1 into the homeseer server and let it import all device from the stick. So far so good. I only had to give the devices their proper names.
While doing that, I created rooms and floors which was a piece of cake.
Now I could switch all devices from the overview screen. Response time was very quick, compared to my Vera, which naturally used the same hardware.
After that I created 2 scenes, to test my 3in1 motion sensor with the lamps it normally switches through Vera. I was really impressed how fast this can be. Nothing compared to the seconds I normally have to wait when Vera does the work.

A scene in homeseer is triggered manually or by an event and what surprise, a trigger can have conditions. Those can be time, or any condition that relates to sunset/rise and -who would have thought- conditions of other devices. So you can define those complicated logical relations, that the vera needs lua scripts for.

Given the speed and flexibility, I would switch instantly to homeseer. Unfortunately SQRemote doesn't know anything about it. It would be impossible to trigger events from SQRemote in Homeseer which I normally do. The Puck that I'm using for IR remote lately, is the killer application for this system now. So I'm stuck with vera at the moment, but I know, there is a second source to steer my z-wave when I need it which gives me a bit of comfort.

Luckily, when putting the stick back into Vera, everything was as it was before!
BTW I really doubt, that the Vera hardware really is the problem, when it comes to response time. As always, the software seems to be the problem.

Cheers
Umtauscher