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Author Topic: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller  (Read 177674 times)

Offline aschwalb

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #45 on: March 08, 2011, 12:28:57 pm »
@dkeefe

How many valves can you control?  Is this made available to vera or just within the Unit itself?  i.e. in vera do I see valve 1-5 or am I simply executing a "scene" 1-5?  that the multiwave then does some complex valve switching?

Offline dkeefe

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #46 on: March 16, 2011, 04:21:30 pm »
sorry for the late response. I just saw your question.

I honestly don't know because I don't have any valve actuators (pool only, no spa).

in theory, you could control up to 5 valves (one with each circuit).

vera's control of the multiwave is pretty minimal. I'm pretty disappointed with it right now. it allows you to control the 5 circuits, but doesn't report pool or air temp or allow you to set the heater temp. also, I don't see how you could switch between pool or spa mode.

what is weird though is an earlier version of home buddy allowed me to set the heater temp. an update to home buddy came out and I lost that feature. :(

I have been kind of waiting for the next firmware release before I contact mcv for assistance with the temps.

otherwise I'm very happy with the multiwave pool controller and I'm pretty sure my issues are with vera, not the multwave. intermatic is still developing it and adding features, which also impresses me. they told me that solar heat control is planned for a future release.


Offline mcoulter

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #47 on: March 16, 2011, 09:07:11 pm »
@dkeefe,
I've been working with MCV and Intermatic for a while now trying to get the temp controls managed, you should at see some of the temp data if you look under the advanced tab so it is really close now.  I'm not sure exactly how close they are to making modifications or if they still need Intermatic's assistance but I have those groups in some communication along with a Multi-wave vendor (Autopilot calls the system Pool Commander) and there is joint interest in getting this resolved.

@aschwalb,
There is an additional module to purchase for actuator control.  I believe that each module can run three actuators (two for certain).  The module is just wired to one of the relays, typically number 4.  If you have a Heat Pump then that takes up relay 5 which is switched to a low voltage signal.  That leaves you with relays 1-3 for other pool equipment.

Offline dkeefe

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #48 on: March 17, 2011, 09:36:01 am »
mcoulter,

that is great news! I'm really glad to hear that they are still working on this.

Now that you point it out, I do see the pool temp and heater set point in the advanced tab with 1224. air temp is still missing. I never noticed that before, but it must have been there in 1183 because home buddy could see and set it about two months ago.

My other compliant with how vera handles the main controller device is why does it think there is something it can turn on and off? I don't see what this does. it is just confusing.

regarding the valves, I can't figure out if the valve controller can control three valves individually or not. from reading the manuals for both, it seems it can't. the multiwave manual implies that only valves required to switch from pool to spa mode are supported. if you wanted control of more valves, it looks like you would need more valve controllers wired to different circuits. seems like a pretty expensive solution.

It isn't very clear, though.

Offline mcoulter

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #49 on: March 18, 2011, 04:12:00 pm »
dkeefe,

The Actuator controller will handle three actuators but they are all running together so they are essentially sharing one switch which is of course designed primarily for pool/spa combos.  Sometimes we are using them for waterfall features as well.  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they operate individually. 

The main switch to the unit on the Vera just triggers relay 1 the same as the first child switch.  However if you press the physical relay 1 button on the PE653, the Vera only polls it on the child switch.  So I have recommended that they remove that or replace that switch data with the temp settings.  Still waiting to hear something back.  I do keep up with my pestering :) 

I try not to push to much on this knowing there are other Zwave issues in the world, but it is tough to be so close yet so far away...

Offline aschwalb

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #50 on: March 18, 2011, 04:31:04 pm »
@mcoulter

So that would mean (assuming 3 actuators) I could control 6 valves but would take up 2 of the function relays.  ie. since I need to move 5 valves to go between spa and pool mode I would use 4 of the 5 relays... (relay 1 3 valves, relay 2 2 valves).  The actuator control unit then just tells the 3 valves which position to go in?

Offline dkeefe

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #51 on: March 18, 2011, 04:32:03 pm »
You didn't confuse me about the valve controller. I was pretty sure that was how it worked. You just confirmed my suspicions. Thanks!

We have fountains in our pool and I've thought about adding a valve actuator to it, but it seems a little silly to me to spend ~$300 to turn some fountains (which we never use) on and off remotely.

Thanks for working with mcv about this. They are pretty close to getting this right...

Offline dkeefe

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #52 on: March 18, 2011, 04:36:23 pm »
@mcoulter

So that would mean (assuming 3 actuators) I could control 6 valves but would take up 2 of the function relays.  ie. since I need to move 5 valves to go between spa and pool mode I would use 4 of the 5 relays... (relay 1 3 valves, relay 2 2 valves).  The actuator control unit then just tells the 3 valves which position to go in?

if you need to change 5 valves to switch between pool and spa mode, then you would need 5 actuators (one for each valve) and 2 valve controllers (each valve controller can handle up to 3 valves).

the pe653 only uses one circuit (circuit #4) to switch between the modes. you would wire both valve controllers in parallel to this circuit.

if you need to do staggering of the valve operation, then I'm not sure this would work.
« Last Edit: March 18, 2011, 04:44:12 pm by dkeefe »

Offline aschwalb

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #53 on: March 18, 2011, 05:28:25 pm »
@dkeefe

I dont need to stagger just have 5 valves move to a position for Pool mode and another position for Spa mode.  So does output #4 have mode 1 and mode 2? i.e. the valve controllers when multiwave relay #4 is in mode 1 will move each valve actuator to a fixed position and in mode2 move to another?

Offline dkeefe

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #54 on: March 18, 2011, 05:37:14 pm »
no, the circuit is either off (open) in pool mode or on (closed) in spa mode.

the valve controller sets the valves one way when the input is energized and the other when it isn't.


Offline dkeefe

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #55 on: March 18, 2011, 08:22:58 pm »
after studying the actuators, I now understand how they work.

all you really need are 5 actuators, a 24vac 75va transformer and a relay to make your setup work.

intermatic's valve controller has a whole bunch of extra stuff that we don't need, which partly explains why it is rather expensive.

I think I came up with a fun little project for myself this weekend! :D

woohoo! automated fountains here I come!

Offline mcoulter

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #56 on: March 18, 2011, 09:10:55 pm »
dkeefe,
I think I know where you are heading with this so let me supplement your project.  First, as you probably are now aware, the actuators are always on they require a double throw switch so that they always have 24v in one direction or the other. 

Over two years ago, prior to the Multiwave, I did an installation where I switched the valves using an Intermatic CA3000 switch and then followed the diagram seen on page 12 of this Jandy guide: http://www.jandy-downloads.com/pdfs/JVAmanual.pdf

I used the switch in place of the time clock in the diagram and put the project in a watertight box.  I actually used the same switch for changing the heat pump settings but since you have the MultiWave that step isn't needed.  And now you can obviously just replace my CA3000 with the relay on the MultiWave.

Offline dkeefe

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #57 on: March 19, 2011, 08:32:49 am »
mcoulter,

thanks! I found that diagram earlier yesterday and was what led me to my solution. I could do it with just the pe653 and no relay, but that would use two circuits. a double throw relay makes it so I'll only need one circuit.

the p3653 provides power to close the relay. on the contact side, I have 24 vac connected to the common. the no contact goes to one of the actuator power wires and the nc contact goes to the other.

thanks again!

Offline uskiman

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #58 on: April 06, 2011, 03:29:07 pm »
Everyone,

I ran across your forum, joined, and now hope I can help with your MultiWave questions.  I guess I’ll start with who I am, my name is Allen and I’m in charge of the MultiWave design/programming. 

To answer your first question about the actuators, we do offer a P4043ME or PE140 control that works with a single switch and includes a 40VA 24VAC transformer and circuit board to control up to three actuators simultaneously.  This is a stripped down version of the controller Matt was talking about and should fill your requirements at a reasonable price. 

We continue to make program enhancements to the MultiWave in order to communicate with more equipment and also maximize the Vera interface so stay tuned.  We have come a long way with Matt’s help as the mediator between us and Vera. 

In the near future, you should stay tuned for updates on the following website http://www.poolandspacontrols.com/downloads.aspx for the latest version of software for your MultiWave system.

I apologize for not signing up sooner to your website and helping you out but I just found out this site exists! 

I don’t check this site often, but when I do, I will help when I can.

Thanks!

Offline dkeefe

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Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
« Reply #59 on: April 06, 2011, 03:44:55 pm »
Hi Allen,

Welcome! Thank you so much for posting here!

Is the pe140 just a p4043me in a metal enclosure? It isn't clear to me what the difference is between the two with the little I can find out about them by googling.

I found the pe140 for $200, but I haven't found anywhere selling the p4043me. $200 is still pretty expensive for what you get.

Also, do you have any eta for solar support?

Thanks again for your help!

P.S. you can subscribe to this thread so you get an email whenever someone posts.  This way don't have to keep checking.