Coming from SmartThings, 1 week into it.

[integlikewhoa]

" Vera definity is weaker on zigbee devices"
- Weaker? I dont see they are supported at all.

" SS didn't handle all of my devices.  "
- For example? I wonder to know device details please?

The little list vera provides is not all that works. They do have working zigbee devices now but They only started supporting zigbee 2 months ago. I perosnally don't own any zigbee devices only z-wave. I have never bought a z-wave device that does't work, but I also buy local run of the mill devices, nothing that no one has scene before. 

I do own several ZigBee devices and I know that if it isn't on the short, supported list, all bets are off.  I imagine it will improve, but when is the big question.

 
All my alarm panel devices which accounts for more then 60% of my devices and 95% of my smart home logic are not supported on SS. Without this I would be stuck with alot of bulky battery devices. I try to stay away from both wireless and batteries as much as I can.

I am curious how your alarm panel connects to your Vera?  And is the logic done in a plug-in?

I'm not only Talking ZigBee when I speak for "Devices" on a list. The Vera List for zwave is very short and I don't think more then a few of my devices are even on the list. So my point is the list is not the end all, even if you say it is for zigbee. Again I don't have zigbee so I can't confirm or deny anything on zigbee side. Same goes for bluetooth. Both Zigbee and Bleutooth are a few months old to VERA and there hasn't been any updates since that was even released so I don't expect vera is as strong in either as SS would be that has had zigbee for years. I also know that zigbee isn't as big as z-wave either in my house, city or state.

Alarm panel is connected via USB and there is no plugin for SS. Without a plugin the devices don't work. Again "devices" not z-wave only, not zigbee only, not bluetooth only, just devices in general using any kind of protocol or connection. They don't work with SS where they do with Vera and Homeseer.

Logic with VERA is done with either built in "Scenes" or PLEG plugin. Homeseer is built in Logic called "Events". In SS without all the devices being able to connect to SS logic won't work for all of the sensors I have. And besides a few virtual sensors all the motions, doors, windows, smokes and such are what make up my "Automation" Logic.

So where SS may excel in one area Vera might in another and neither are perfect for everyone. 

[ChrisK]

" Vera definity is weaker on zigbee devices"
- Weaker? I dont see they are supported at all.

" SS didn't handle all of my devices.  "
- For example? I wonder to know device details please?

The little list vera provides is not all that works. They do have working zigbee devices now but They only started supporting zigbee 2 months ago. I perosnally don't own any zigbee devices only z-wave. I have never bought a z-wave device that does't work, but I also buy local run of the mill devices, nothing that no one has scene before. 

I do own several ZigBee devices and I know that if it isn't on the short, supported list, all bets are off.  I imagine it will improve, but when is the big question.

 
All my alarm panel devices which accounts for more then 60% of my devices and 95% of my smart home logic are not supported on SS. Without this I would be stuck with alot of bulky battery devices. I try to stay away from both wireless and batteries as much as I can.

I am curious how your alarm panel connects to your Vera?  And is the logic done in a plug-in?

I'm not only Talking ZigBee when I speak for "Devices" on a list. The Vera List for zwave is very short and I don't think more then a few of my devices are even on the list. So my point is the list is not the end all, even if you say it is for zigbee. Again I don't have zigbee so I can't confirm or deny anything on zigbee side. Same goes for bluetooth. Both Zigbee and Bleutooth are a few months old to VERA and there hasn't been any updates since that was even released so I don't expect vera is as strong in either as SS would be that has had zigbee for years. I also know that zigbee isn't as big as z-wave either in my house, city or state.

Alarm panel is connected via USB and there is no plugin for SS. Without a plugin the devices don't work. Again "devices" not z-wave only, not zigbee only, not bluetooth only, just devices in general using any kind of protocol or connection. They don't work with SS where they do with Vera and Homeseer.

Logic with VERA is done with either built in "Scenes" or PLEG plugin. Homeseer is built in Logic called "Events". In SS without all the devices being able to connect to SS logic won't work for all of the sensors I have. And besides a few virtual sensors all the motions, doors, windows, smokes and such are what make up my "Automation" Logic.

I see.  I think about getting an alarm system from time to time.  Wires are out of the question, and wireless solutions don't appeal to me for now.  Anyway, what I have is working pretty well.  He's powered by puppy chow.  No wires, or batteries to change. 

So where SS may excel in one area Vera might in another and neither are perfect for everyone.

I totally agree!

[integlikewhoa]

I see.  I think about getting an alarm system from time to time.  Wires are out of the question, and wireless solutions don't appeal to me for now.  Anyway, what I have is working pretty well.  He's powered by puppy chow.  No wires, or batteries to change. 

I have 2 weimaraners but they are not always awake, home or inside the house. The alarm I have is not monitored nor do I use it like I should in a traditional alarm fashion. The keypad is never used.

But with hidden door/window sensors 1-2.00 each
http://www.home-security-systems-answers.com/magnetic-door-switches.html

A roll of 100ft wire was like 30.00
The alarm kit was 120.00 (panel, keypad, wall wort, battery backup, siren)
The motions are 10.00

So for 40 interior/exterior doors and windows along with 10 motions its around 300.00. There is no z-wave issues or including for these 50 devices, there is little load on vera, no batteries to change, no distance or routing to worry about.

With a normal alarm you wouldn't have interior doors or that many motions, but I use them for logic. Pantry door open turn on light, Bathroom door closed with light on turn on fan. Laundry room door and such. I also have alot more motions then needed for an alarm due to the same logic with turning on lights when motion is sensed. When my 5 year old gets out of bed at night dimming lights on come for him to find his way to the restroom.

Z-wave motions and door/window sensors at 25 to 30 each on the cheap side (25.00) 50 devices like above is 1250.00 and an alarm system will last years past my z-wave devices. There is alot more reasons besides price too, some people already have them in a house they bought, other see the long term savings and longevity.
 

[RichardTSchaefer]

Also most motion sensors attached to an alarm system have faster response  for both motion detected and motion not detected which is very important for re-active automation based on motion in the house.

[pix530]

I am at design phase for building security/HA system in house. So it is a q for me:
DSC1616+ VERA or just HA device?

My friend runs security company so he insisted on DSC while my setup is pretty simple - 3 motion detectors from security perspective.
Thats it.

So going with DSC would cost me $300 in hardware plus installation fees.
Going with HA device - IVY, SS or Vera would cost me half that price with 0 installaiton fees.

As my final plan is to add smart locks and some lighting control I think about HA device anyway.

Also I am not fan of legacy keypads (I really like to manage from phone, locks or remote). Modern keypad would require additional wireless module so I basically overpay another $200 just to have nice keypad that I am not plan to use at all.

[RichardTSchaefer]

Your DSC connected sensors are far more reliable, responsive, and cheaper than Z-Wave sensors.
I have a DSC1664  with about 50 sensors (about half are wireless) and over 100 Z-Wave devices.

I wish I would have wired my house for more DSC connected motion sensors.
For full automation you want a motion sensor in EVERY room ... a door or motion sensor for every closet and small room ... including utility closets/rooms, mud rooms, ... etc .. Any place there is a LIGHT.

So I have a reliable alarm system that is well connected to the home automation system (Vera).
I never use the alarm panel keypad, except when Vera has a problem.
You still need a keypad to program the alarm system. So yes, it seems like a wasted cost, and I have the expensive Wireless keypad because I did not want to run wires to were I needed an entry keypad (in case of Vera Problems, and yes I have needed to use it occasionally).

[integlikewhoa]

I am at design phase for building security/HA system in house. So it is a q for me:
DSC1616+ VERA or just HA device?

My friend runs security company so he insisted on DSC while my setup is pretty simple - 3 motion detectors from security perspective.
Thats it.

So going with DSC would cost me $300 in hardware plus installation fees.
Going with HA device - IVY, SS or Vera would cost me half that price with 0 installaiton fees.

As my final plan is to add smart locks and some lighting control I think about HA device anyway.

Also I am not fan of legacy keypads (I really like to manage from phone, locks or remote). Modern keypad would require additional wireless module so I basically overpay another $200 just to have nice keypad that I am not plan to use at all.

If your only talking 3 motions then it's hard to say go with an alarm. And 3 motions only is not going to help with much logic, or alerts around the house with vera either. I also think your over paying for a DSC 1616 and 3 motions. One motion comes with the kit to begin with. And that's only 150 or less depending where you shop for the hardware. If you can't install that's going to jack up the price quick as labor is the expensive part these days. 

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DSC-Hard-wired-Security-System-Keypad-PC-1616-Panel-Complete-w-extras-NEW-/152050791389?hash=item2366eef3dd:g:1rIAAOSwUdlWcN7n

But going back to the 3 motions and that's it. I would not get an alarm for just that, but I think you will end up with alot more sensors soon. And anyone that wants to install a home alarm system with only motions is not a great installer anyways. Motions only trip when someone is already in the house for one. Usually you should try and attempt to discourage someone from even trying to get in, in the first place. I personally start that with outdoor motions and notifications if I'm not home or have been inside for several mins and not went outside.
At min glass break or door and window sensors will atleast trip as they open before they go in not after they have climbed threw the window and stand up in your house. 3 motions also seems like very little to cover bedrooms, bathrooms, kitchen or any other areas that have windows/doors or entry points. So that further seems like they can climb in threw a window and move around a room before 1 of the 3 motions gets tripped. Even with a very small house and open floor plan I can't see only 3 motions doing a great job of covering anything but the common areas, but I don't know your floorplan or layout so I could be wrong.   

Are you planning on paying to have the DSC panel monitored? If you are going that far then an alarm is the better option as VERA is not reliable enough or currently have monitoring yet.

[Thinkfire]

Just a bump.  A year later...


And...not much has changed.  How much patience do you want clients to have?

[integlikewhoa]

Just a bump.  A year later...


And...not much has changed.  How much patience do you want clients to have?

Waiting for someone else to change is probley not the best approach to actually receive the change you need or want. Balls in your court also.

[Albert1]

I have the same issues as mentioned a year ago. The Zigbee interface is "flaky". When dding a generic Zigbee device either nothibg happens or the Zwave green light start blinking!!!. For me the only way to add generic devices is use one of the existing ones, but it only works some times.  I think the Smartthings or Wink is the only and much easier way.

[kigmatzomat]

How many ZigBee devices work on both wink and Smartthings? I thought the overlap of support was limited to maybe two manufacturers.

[ccollinscj]

Great....I figure I would check back on Vera,  since I have now been a customer of Smartthings for a few years now.  What appealed to me is not having to rely on having an internet connection.  So I figure I would give VeraPlus a go and right out the gate I have errors with energy app which looks like a cluster for the last few years going through this forum.  I called customer support,  I was given the old throw over the fence line saying I will have to get with some one and they will get back with you and we don't know when....wtf.....is that.  If this continues in the next few days I am boxing it back up and sending back to Amazon and letting them know the device and service is defective.  And will invest in a cell connection for my Smartthings.