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Author Topic: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?  (Read 4828 times)

Offline erkme73

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ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« on: August 16, 2016, 07:08:03 pm »
So I bought a 10-pack of the subject Vision ZL7432US relays.  For $26, the ability to independently control two circuits seemed too good to pass up.   

I've installed only one so far - to control my guest bathroom light and fan.    Upon pairing, my VP dashboard showed three devices;  a main device, and two appliance modules (1 & 2).

I've labeled them as follows:

Parent device: Guest Bath Light
Appliance 1:  Light
Appliance 2: Fan

When I change the state of SW1 (light) at the actual wall switch, only the parent device (Guest Bath Light) updates (not Light or Fan)
When I change the state of SW2 (fan) at the actual wall switch, nothing changes state on the GUI.

It would appear that the reporting of SW1 affects only the parent device, and switching SW2 keeps VERA in the dark.  This makes any PLEG useless without being able to use SW2 status reports as triggers.

Has anyone used these devices and found a way to get VERA to see the status change on both inputs?

Offline Mike Yeager

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #1 on: August 17, 2016, 12:21:17 pm »
I have several of the Enerwave units. They create 3 devices just like those. Ignore the parent device and just toggle the other two. See if that makes a difference and let us know. Thats a killer price!!!

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #2 on: August 17, 2016, 12:44:18 pm »
Other problem is the physical switch position. Up and Down now means nothing (no led's on switch either). It could be on when up or down. Sitting next to 3 other switches and all lights off but the switches are mixed some up some down just drives me nuts especially then your turning on and off outside light or outlets. You can't just naturally tell the light is on since its either outside or not controlling a physical light.

Those switches are cheap especially considering they control two loads, but they don't seem to work as well as the actual switches.

Offline erkme73

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #3 on: August 17, 2016, 12:47:24 pm »
I have several of the Enerwave units. They create 3 devices just like those. Ignore the parent device and just toggle the other two. See if that makes a difference and let us know. Thats a killer price!!!

The toggling of the switches - either from VERA, or the toggle switches at the gang box - works great.  I'm able to instantly turn them on/off.   While having three devices show up in the dashboard for only two relays is cluttered and redundant, I can live with that.  It's the apparent lack of instant status reporting for SW2/relay 2 that is the problem.  I need very to know immediately if the fan switch is turned on/off - else any PLEG script/automation is useless.

Offline erkme73

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #4 on: August 17, 2016, 12:52:41 pm »
Other problem is the physical switch position. Up and Down now means nothing (no led's on switch either). It could be on when up or down. Sitting next to 3 other switches and all lights off but the switches are mixed some up some down just drives me nuts especially then your turning on and off outside light or outlets. You can't just naturally tell the light is on since its either outside or not controlling a physical light.

Those switches are cheap especially considering they control two loads, but they don't seem to work as well as the actual switches.

That's funny.  I think that problem only affects people that are suffering from certain OCD-like conditions ;)   The problem with any switch like this is that it effectively makes the standard on/off toggle switch, a three-way switch.   If you have any traditional 3-way switches in your home, look at them carefully, and you'll note that the "on" and "off" labels that are normally found on a toggle are missing.   

I have the same issue with my front and back porch lights.   Up is on, down is off - until I added the Aoeon micro controllers.    That's especially troubling when you have 3yo and 20mo kids that love to toggle every switch within reach.  I too, couldn't tell if the lights were on based on switch position.  So I now have a PLEG routine that say 'if it's daytime, and the switch is turned on, immediately turn off the lights'.   I have no conceivable need to turn on the porch lights during the day, so any position they're in, the light stays off... until night time.  But at that point, I can see if the lights are on.

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #5 on: August 17, 2016, 01:11:03 pm »
Other problem is the physical switch position. Up and Down now means nothing (no led's on switch either). It could be on when up or down. Sitting next to 3 other switches and all lights off but the switches are mixed some up some down just drives me nuts especially then your turning on and off outside light or outlets. You can't just naturally tell the light is on since its either outside or not controlling a physical light.

Those switches are cheap especially considering they control two loads, but they don't seem to work as well as the actual switches.

That's funny.  I think that problem only affects people that are suffering from certain OCD-like conditions ;)   The problem with any switch like this is that it effectively makes the standard on/off toggle switch, a three-way switch.   If you have any traditional 3-way switches in your home, look at them carefully, and you'll note that the "on" and "off" labels that are normally found on a toggle are missing.   

I have the same issue with my front and back porch lights.   Up is on, down is off - until I added the Aoeon micro controllers.    That's especially troubling when you have 3yo and 20mo kids that love to toggle every switch within reach.  I too, couldn't tell if the lights were on based on switch position.  So I now have a PLEG routine that say 'if it's daytime, and the switch is turned on, immediately turn off the lights'.   I have no conceivable need to turn on the porch lights during the day, so any position they're in, the light stays off... until night time.  But at that point, I can see if the lights are on.

Newer 3way switches (which I don't have a non-zwave switch in the house anymore) return to middle position for fix this exact problem as do the newer z-wave 3way switches. I feel like it was evolution that led to the fix of OCD.

PLEG is also a way to fix some of the problems. But that's a mear work around for the main problem. Point was..... It's not that you can't over come the issues associated with turning every switch in the house to a 3-way switch, it's that down sides do exist when taking the cheap way out.

Offline erkme73

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #6 on: August 17, 2016, 01:16:00 pm »
Interesting.  I didn't know that newer 3-way switches return to center.  I've yet to see those.  I just had a house built that finished 3 months ago - and all the 3-ways are up and down, no middle.   I was always brought up to fear a switch that was in the middle as it might cause arcing.  I guess older standard toggle switches had a sweet spot that if you parked the toggle there, it could cause arcing inside.  My dad scared us to death about always making sure the switches were completely up or down.    Looks like I need some reprogramming, myself.

Offline Mike Yeager

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #7 on: August 17, 2016, 02:02:29 pm »
If all of your switches are Z-Wave, what exactly are you using the dual relay devices for? I use mine for things that have no physical switch (yes, things I can live without if my automation is down). I don't use the trigger wires to attach them to a physical switch so I don't have your problem. As for instant status, unless I'm watching the GUI, it doesn't matter. If you're trying to trigger scenes, use an in wall scene controller instead of a switch. I'm sure I don't understand exactly what you're trying to accomplish, but I'm trying...

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #8 on: August 17, 2016, 03:16:14 pm »
Interesting.  I didn't know that newer 3-way switches return to center.  I've yet to see those.  I just had a house built that finished 3 months ago - and all the 3-ways are up and down, no middle.   I was always brought up to fear a switch that was in the middle as it might cause arcing.  I guess older standard toggle switches had a sweet spot that if you parked the toggle there, it could cause arcing inside.  My dad scared us to death about always making sure the switches were completely up or down.    Looks like I need some reprogramming, myself.

I have not seen old toggles like that only flat rockers. Similar to any of the GE Z-wave switches or most others. You tap or press up to turn on and down for off but it always returns the same middle resting position without the arcing (they very well maybe a relay setup inside also I'm unsure but they didn't use a neutral). I replaced those at first with GE switches. The newer HomeSeer switches are the same but offer double and triple tap (and instant status) options to run a scene or control another device also. I have started replacing my existing GE z-wave to those.

Offline erkme73

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #9 on: August 17, 2016, 03:17:52 pm »
If all of your switches are Z-Wave, what exactly are you using the dual relay devices for? I use mine for things that have no physical switch (yes, things I can live without if my automation is down). I don't use the trigger wires to attach them to a physical switch so I don't have your problem. As for instant status, unless I'm watching the GUI, it doesn't matter. If you're trying to trigger scenes, use an in wall scene controller instead of a switch. I'm sure I don't understand exactly what you're trying to accomplish, but I'm trying...

With a few exceptions, all of my wall switches have Aeon Labs micro controllers behind them.  Family and guests operate the switches like any other switch.    If/when I move, I simply take them out, and rewire the existing toggle switches back to their original configuration, and no one will know any different.   

My goal was to provide automation (lights turning off X minutes after being turned on, turning on automatically when doors are opened, turned on/off remotely, etc), without changing the original decor.   I added MDs, magnetic door sensors, kwikset deadbolts and leverlocks, and integrated that with my existing DSC alarm panel.   

Recently one of my AL 18103 micro switches stopped working, and instead of replacing it with an identical model, I opted to try one of these dual relay controllers.   Since the bathroom gang box has two existing toggle switches (one for the fan, one for the light), I removed the AL controllers and put a single Vision module in to control both.   It works fine - both with the standard wall toggle switches (so guests don't know any different), the VERA GUI, my cell phone via app, or with PLEG as actions.   However, without the instant status report from SW2 (the fan), I can't  use it as a trigger.

For example, a script that says if the fan is turned on, start a 15 minute timer, then turn it off - cannot be executed if VERA can't tell the fan was turned on.   Sure, if you use a remote to turn it on, or VERA itself, it would work.  But the reality is, it will be guests who simply toggle the wall switch to make the fan come on.

My hope was that someone who has used this particular Vision module has figured a way to get it report instantly (or even near-instantly) when the SW2 (fan wall switch) is toggled.

This is the manual.   And it states:

Quote
For Wall SW1, ZL 7432 will report the status of On/OFF after doing ?Association?. However, Wall SW2 will only report the status if Z-Wave? Interface Controller support Multi Channel command, and send Get Command to ask ZL 7432 Wall SW2 to report the status.

I just not clear on what that means, how to set it up, and whether it would provide me with enough resolution to notice a change of state within a useful time interval.

Offline Mike Yeager

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #10 on: August 17, 2016, 09:38:32 pm »
Ok, so simply poll that device once every minute or so. That's what it's telling you. At that rate, your 15 minute timer will be, at most, a 16 minute timer. I understand what you're doing now. I'm guessing that you have standard toggle type switches. At first, I thought you were using a z-wave switch to drive the relay units.

Offline erkme73

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #11 on: August 18, 2016, 11:02:48 am »
I'm probably doing it wrong, but, I've set the polling interval to 60 seconds under parent device > settings.  The child devices have only "Automatically configure - default"  under settings, but not polling.

Even with this set, after 5 min, the status of SW2 does NOT update. 

Offline Mike Yeager

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #12 on: August 18, 2016, 12:12:41 pm »
Something isn't right somewhere, I don't have any instant switches at all and everything I have updates fairly quickly. I can't understand why anyone would make a device that doesn't update on it's own AND doesn't update when polled either... Not sure how you'd poll it manually as I haven't had the need to do it, but try to find out how to do that and see if you can force an update. If you can force it, you can automate it.  :-)

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: ZL 7432US In Wall Switch, 2 relays... experiences?
« Reply #13 on: August 18, 2016, 02:24:45 pm »
Vera doesn't allow you to set polling to an exact number and it requires more science then anything else. I don't have or use that switch so I can't say if there is away to make instant status work or not on those. But 99% of people will always want instant status over polling but not every device supports it.

Polling requires vera to check up on each device. Depending on how many devices you have and any communication errors you might have in the mesh network your time could be much longer then my time.  Vera does allow you to slow down the polling interval and not poll so often. That is the only option they allow and its worded as such. If you read that adjustable time it says poll no sooner or quicker then........ So if you set it to 1 min it will not poll it again until at-least a min goes by. It does not however mean that it will poll it every min on the dot. It actually doesn't usually poll any devices unless the z-wave network is not busy (your not changing anything, no scenes are running......) then it starts its round robin of checking in and some will poll fast some may check in slower then it goes to the next. More devices you have the longer it takes.

I had alot of GE devices and altho they don't have instant they act as if they do only when they are in direct contact with the Vera not through another device. The 3way GE switch (aux switch only) will take 5 min or more for mine to update (read threads on it why) due to it only polling.

Bottomline you want instant status and use polling only as a backup if the vera or something was off (it's not like the Vera ever randomly reboots for no reason. LOL) when the device changed. Polling takes bandwidth and battery power from your devices and a quiet z-wave network runs much better if it's not trying to poll every device every 10 sec on a continuous loop.

Non instant status devices are cheaper, but now that the patent has expired I would assume that might change and even the change and even those switches will have it. Just hasn't hit full power yet. Before, royalties were due to use it and cheaper switches didn't pay so didn't offer it. Now with Switches like Dragon Tech you can get some of those benefits for a cheaper price. Others should follow but I expected it to be faster then what it is now.