Author Topic: 2 distinct light switches w/ their own set of lights - each turning on the other  (Read 1120 times)

Offline ionizer

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Hi Everyone,

I've used associations before in order to have Light A trigger Light B, C, D, E etc.

I have what I thought was a very simple case using two evolve switches.

Evolve Switch #1 controls Lights A
Evolve Switch #2 controls Lights B

I want both A and B to come on (or off) by hitting switch #1 or #2.

Previously I've used a Leviton switch and achieved this, but the Leviton switch was associated not only with Leviton switches, but Evolve switches.

However, in this case, both switches are Evolve.  I read there is some patent on some instant on status or something, but I didn't think that applies here, b/c all I want is to ensure Light A and Light B go on if I hit ON with Evolve Switch #1 OR Evolve Switch #2 and similarly to go off under off conditions

I thought this would be a basic association (I wasn't sure if I have to associate #1 with #2 and conversely #2 with #1), but at minimum I figured if I did the former that it would work from that switch, but nothing happens.

So can someone advise -
(a) Am I dealing with a feature that is specific to Leviton switches and thus they would need to be Leviton?
(b) Do I need to setup the associations both ways to work? This seems like I may need to eventually if I want both to function, but I don't think this should stop it from working with one switch

Anything I could be doing wrong?

Offline ionizer

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Note: To be clear, these are both physical switches, not just a controller.  My prior usage involved one of the switches being a controller (no direct hook up to the light itself, only remotely controlling another switch that was.)

Offline shallowearth

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I don't believe evolve switches support direct association.  Pretty much any switch can be the target of an association, but not very many switches support being the master in the association.  Coopers, Levitons, Aeon Micro Switches, Fibaro relays, all support it and I think the Dragons/homeseer switches do with the latest firmware (which you can't update with the Vera so I wouldn't go there you need a PC and a z-stick or something to do the firmware update)


Offline Slartibartfast

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What you want to do is absolutely correct the and will work if your switches support direct association. I do exactly this myself using TKB switches (UK).
Each switch will need to be set up to control the other but it will work one way if you only set up one switch. If it is not working then it is as Shallowearth says and your switches do not support it.
Devon UK 240V 50Hz
Now on Homeseer

Offline Z-Waver

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What @shallowearth stated is correct. Your Evolve switches are not able to be programmed with the associations, despite what's stated in their manuals.

You could setup a scene on Vera to turn On both sets of lights, that is triggered by either of the switches. However, with these switches there is likely to be a lengthy delay between when you turn On one of the lights and when the scene runs. This is due to the lack of Instant Status.

Offline ionizer

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What @shallowearth stated is correct. Your Evolve switches are not able to be programmed with the associations, despite what's stated in their manuals.

You could setup a scene on Vera to turn On both sets of lights, that is triggered by either of the switches. However, with these switches there is likely to be a lengthy delay between when you turn On one of the lights and when the scene runs. This is due to the lack of Instant Status.
thank you everyone for confirming.

however, what doesn't make sense to me is that I have used these same exact switches before to make direct associations....i mean I just stared at an Evolve switch I use at the top of the basements to then trigger 5 other switches.

IN FACT I HAD A 3 MONTH CONVERSATION with the evolve support person because after adding a 4th switch to make 5, the device, while working would constantly complain it could not set associations anymore - its as if it works with 5, but doesnt recognize the 5th as being done.    I spoke with Luke via email from like 11/21/2015 through 1/15/2016 and the whole time the process was about Direct Associations.  I mean he even did his own internal demo at their place and never ever once said direct associations dont work. 

IS it possible newer firmware versions work and older ones dont?  I mean I can prove in any way necessary that i have a direct association with this same switch going. 

HOWEVER, the only difference I can see is that my direct associations only seem to work if the device is not a PHYSICAL controller and rather is a "dummy" device that only has power and triggers the other device.   Is it fair to say that is the difference?  Physical switch vs. controller?
t

Offline Z-Waver

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IS it possible newer firmware versions work and older ones dont?

It's more likely the other way around. Older firmware had the capability. It seems that the manufacturer(Linear) then removed that capability and never updated the manuals.

If you look at the capability string in Vera for your Evolve switch, you'll see that it lacks the necessary 133 (COMMAND_CLASS_ASSOCIATION). You can add this capability to the string, at which point Vera will repeatedly try to set the association. But, it will fail to set the association because the switch simply doesn't support it.

If you've still got an old Evolve switch that supports associations, I'd be interested to know the version number and capability string. But, that's just my own curiosity, we still can't change the firmware.


Offline ember1205

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You don't need the direct association if the switches support instant status. Use a scene that detects either switch turning on with an action to turn both on and another scene for the off option. This is how I control three different exterior light circuits with Switch A or Switch B but allowing Switch C to be able to control its light individually.

The scene triggers on Switch A turning ON or Switch B turning ON and the action is to turn all three ON. Same setup for OFF. If you operate Switch C, it has no bearing on the other two.

Offline ionizer

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IS it possible newer firmware versions work and older ones dont?

It's more likely the other way around. Older firmware had the capability. It seems that the manufacturer(Linear) then removed that capability and never updated the manuals.

If you look at the capability string in Vera for your Evolve switch, you'll see that it lacks the necessary 133 (COMMAND_CLASS_ASSOCIATION). You can add this capability to the string, at which point Vera will repeatedly try to set the association. But, it will fail to set the association because the switch simply doesn't support it.

If you've still got an old Evolve switch that supports associations, I'd be interested to know the version number and capability string. But, that's just my own curiosity, we still can't change the firmware.
will look at it tonight and see.

Offline ionizer

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You don't need the direct association if the switches support instant status. Use a scene that detects either switch turning on with an action to turn both on and another scene for the off option. This is how I control three different exterior light circuits with Switch A or Switch B but allowing Switch C to be able to control its light individually.

The scene triggers on Switch A turning ON or Switch B turning ON and the action is to turn all three ON. Same setup for OFF. If you operate Switch C, it has no bearing on the other two.
good to know there is a 'workaround'... have never used triggers before, but now i understand how it would be used - i always thought you had to write the LUUP code or something to do that

will first check/compare and then do this as last resort, may need help ;P

Offline shallowearth

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Note that Evolve switches don't support instant status so there will be large delay between turning in the switch and the scene running.


Offline ionizer

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i still owe a response to this and haven't forgotten, just got super tied up with so many things!

Offline ionizer

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You don't need the direct association if the switches support instant status. Use a scene that detects either switch turning on with an action to turn both on and another scene for the off option. This is how I control three different exterior light circuits with Switch A or Switch B but allowing Switch C to be able to control its light individually.

The scene triggers on Switch A turning ON or Switch B turning ON and the action is to turn all three ON. Same setup for OFF. If you operate Switch C, it has no bearing on the other two.
so i know this post is old, but i finally got a veraplus and thus got around to really re-reading this entire thread.  plus i talked with vera CSR and they said direct association is the best way in terms of avoiding any lag.  I suppose i could add a trigger onto one of the directly associated devices such that when it is turned on, it also adds the 5th light (at the cost of a delay)..but at this point I think I'll just keep it simple and leave it to 4 associations.

most of the time I use amazon to turn on the basement lights and amazon echo now allows grouping anyway with no real limits