Author Topic: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor  (Read 6627 times)

Offline ehertz

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #15 on: August 05, 2018, 12:10:43 pm »
First, this is the first time I have looked at this thread in a very long time. I wanted to install another motion sensor light on my house because there has recently been someone breaking into cars in our area, so I wanted to check how I had done this before. As Rcube noted, it appears that the Vision ZL7431 relay is out-of-stock pretty much everywhere. I assume it was discontinued, although I do not know.

To answer the questions that were posted:

Rcube wrote: "Reason is I am unable to find the VISION microswitch and am planning to get another one (ENERWAVE ZWN-RSM1) instead. And that micro-switch does not have as many wires. So want to make sure that I am connecting the right wires together."

As for the Enerwave relay, it looks like it has four connections: Neutral, Hot, Load, and Aux. These appear to be equivalent to the following connections on the Vision relay. (Please note that I have not tested this. I am comparing the wiring diagram for the Vision relay to the wiring diagram for the Enerwave wiring diagram. So this is an educated, but untested, guess.)
Neutral - White wire
Hot - Black wire
Aux - Green wire (to motion sensor)
Load - Red wire (not connected when using ZL4731 the way that I described)

jelisa08 wrote: "I wish I could get this to work.  I have wired the damn thing 20 times without any luck.  I have never had problems wiring any relay before including a single vision relay.  Any advice would be great.  I know this is an old topic but I have been all over the web without any luck.  Days of searching."

jelisa08, perhaps you could attach some pictures of what you have done? One problem I have had is that I had a defective Vision relay that would not go into Inclusion mode, so that one would never work. But, other than that issue, I have been able to use these relays successfully.

ghost, you mention three outdoor motion sensors with Z-wave capability. Unfortunately, I do not see that any of those are available in the US, where I live. I did find an outdoor motion sensor made by Aeon (ZW100-A). However, the description for that says: "The device can be used outdoors with the motion sensor disabled." Of course, while it might be nice to have a sensor that detects temperature, without the motion sensor capability, it is quite useless for my purposes.

Finally, Jamr, I am very pleased to see that someone is offering these for sale. I do hope that your business is successful.

Offline kigmatzomat

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #16 on: August 05, 2018, 09:44:47 pm »
Homeseer just released a zwave motion/lux sensor for use on exterior lighting. Controls 300W of bulbs.

https://shop.homeseer.com/products/homeseer-hs-fls100-z-wave-plus-floodlight-sensor

Offline ehertz

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #17 on: August 06, 2018, 08:23:51 am »
Homeseer just released a zwave motion/lux sensor for use on exterior lighting. Controls 300W of bulbs.

https://shop.homeseer.com/products/homeseer-hs-fls100-z-wave-plus-floodlight-sensor

That looks great. Thanks so much for finding it.

Offline integlikewhoa

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #18 on: August 06, 2018, 09:18:33 am »
However, the description for that says: "The device can be used outdoors with the motion sensor disabled."

The reason it says that is because any of these type of cheap PIR sensors create alot of false alerts. Even the motion light sensors in the first post are not good for security purposes. A breeze of different temperature (Warm or cold breeze) sets them off, a cat sets them off trees moving sets them off. Normally for turning on and off a motion light they work fine, but to base alerts or to wake you in the middle of the night for a car or home burgler (security use) these sensors are not good and the manufacture doesn't want complaints. Which is why it says on it that you should disable the motion outdoors. Its not that it wont work it's that you can't trust it and it will have false alerts.

Alarm motions out doors will use dual technology sensors. It will have both a Microwave and a PIR (Passive Infrared sensor). PIR's are cheap to make so they are most common, but they only sense temp change and can easily influenced by wind and outside air temps changing (better PIR's even have temp compensation built in to try and help this). Then you have Microwave covers a larger area not influenced buy temp, but rather movement of an object (think radar detector). These are more expensive so not as common especially in a 5-15.00 motion sensor. But moving tree's and such can set these off. Then you have dual technology that use both technologies in a single sensor. You need to have both movement and heat detection in the same area to trip the dual technology sensor.


Offline ehertz

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #19 on: August 06, 2018, 10:03:21 am »
However, the description for that says: "The device can be used outdoors with the motion sensor disabled."

The reason it says that is because any of these type of cheap PIR sensors create alot of false alerts. Even the motion light sensors in the first post are not good for security purposes. A breeze of different temperature (Warm or cold breeze) sets them off, a cat sets them off trees moving sets them off. Normally for turning on and off a motion light they work fine, but to base alerts or to wake you in the middle of the night for a car or home burgler (security use) these sensors are not good and the manufacture doesn't want complaints. Which is why it says on it that you should disable the motion outdoors. Its not that it wont work it's that you can't trust it and it will have false alerts.

I agree. However, for my purposes, all I am looking for is a motion sensor that triggers the lights outside my house to turn on, rather than generate an alarm. For example, about a month ago, my neighbors reported that someone came to their backdoor at about 2 AM and tried it to see if it was unlocked. It was not, and when he created enough noise that their two dogs started barking, he left. After hearing that, I checked the recordings on my security camera, and found out that the same person came up my driveway a few minutes later and tried the doors on my car to see if it was unlocked. A few seconds after he was doing that, he triggered one of my Z-wave motion sensors, which turned on all of the lights in front of my house. As soon as that happened, he ran down the driveway to get away from my house.

I have no doubt that if the lights had not come on, he would have worked harder to get into my car, and then tried to get into my house. The bottom line here is that false triggering of the motion detector is quite acceptable for my purposes. If my lights turn on a dozen times during the night, that is no problem.

As for the Aeon sensor, I had two of the earlier versions of the sensor. They were advertised to be for outdoor use. One I purchased, the second was a warranty replacement I received after getting in touch with Aeon. Both sensors failed within about 6 months. I had even sealed the replacement sensor with silicone to try to prevent it from failing. That I compare to the motion sensor lights I have had on my house for well over a decade with no problems at all.

Offline Jamr

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #20 on: August 06, 2018, 12:52:31 pm »
I have to chime in here as bringing my security perimeter out to my property perimeter was the best thing I did for my home security.
We use Defiant outdoor rated motion sensors and they work great for outdoor security. I am not just saying that because we sell them but because I use them on and around my own home.
I personally use the motion floods around my driveways and outdoor decks and hidden motions in planters to turn on outdoor lighting in both my front and back yards and wall motions lights around my main entry way and front porch and these all  work really well to turn on outdoor lighting during awake hours and security, home and property defense for sleeping and away hours. I find bringing my security perimeter out to the perimeter of my property gives me an extra layer of security for my home and everything on my property. Let's face it. Once a crook breaks a window or pries open a door, the damage is already started. Better to see it and stop it before it starts.

If these motions are set up properly it is kinda like having cameras pointing everywhere on your property and someone watching them 24/7 and that someone is turning lights on and sprinklers off for you as you walk around your yard. Then when you are asleep and someone enters your yard, they can trigger outdoor lights, strobes and sirens and even notify you that you have a trespasser or snoop on your property.
If you do get false alarms I am pretty sure as I have not tried this yet, you can regulate them by using software (Trigger Count/Timers) to control notifications and when your lights and outdoor sirens will trigger. We have lots of wind and critters around our house as we live next door to a forest and I still do not need these as our motions very rarely falses.

The cheaper motion lights that do false a lot may not be good for outdoor security but the better ones are actually really great for outdoor and property security and home automation. I could not be more pleased with them.

One other thing I wanted to mention is, make sure you get the correct field of view for your application. 100 -150 degree is a rather narrow field of view. if you plan on using one for a wide area please think about going with a wider FOV (field of view) like 180 or 270 degrees.

Offline wilme2

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #21 on: August 06, 2018, 03:41:05 pm »
Z-Wave Everspring Indoor/Outdoor Motion Detector SP816 - Gen5

I went with the everspring one, the philio one went to the back.

Where did you find the Everspring available?  I would like to replace my SP103s with SP816s...
Long Live UI5!  (OK finally made the switch to UI7 in January 2018, and am pretty happy....)

Offline therealdb

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #22 on: August 07, 2018, 01:18:55 am »
I have a Kaipulek motion sensor. It?s pet immune but not rated for outdoor.
I have it under a long porch and it?s working fine since April. I use it to trigger camera screenshots and turn on additional lights.
Never had a false alarm, and we have some animals visiting the garden during the night, since I?m near a forest.
Battery seems to be ok, let?s see how well it does during the winter. I don?t know if it?s available in US.
Vera Edge, Fibaro FGRM 222 (12), Fibaro FGS 223 (20), Fibaro FGS 222 (5), Fibaro Universal Binary Sensor (2), Fibaro Plug (3), NeoCoolCam Door Sensor (3), NeoCoolCam PIR (1), Nest (3), Raspberry PI running my own integrations, Harmony Hub, OpenSprinkler, Personal Weather Station

Offline ghost

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #23 on: August 07, 2018, 06:52:48 am »
The everspring sensors:
https://www.vesternet.com/z-wave-everspring-indoor-outdoor-motion-detector-sp816-gen5
https://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B0798P8CCQ/?coliid=IES4C5S0L68FL&colid=2I7JD68J7QEJE&psc=0&ref_=lv_ov_lig_dp_it

In the UK. Hope it helps. Its really good. Used it for more than a year now, it is above my car and picks up all movements. When movement is detected, my raspberry pi plays a beep sound in the house, which can be heard outside. Movements when in night mode also plays out a voice saying 'movement detected in the front' next to my bed. I have a video of me chasing an intruder who went to try my car door. I sleep better knowing that no one can come near my house without me knowing

Offline ehertz

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #24 on: August 08, 2018, 10:14:49 pm »
I have to chime in here as bringing my security perimeter out to my property perimeter was the best thing I did for my home security. I find bringing my security perimeter out to the perimeter of my property gives me an extra layer of security for my home and everything on my property. Let's face it. Once a crook breaks a window or pries open a door, the damage is already started. Better to see it and stop it before it starts.

I am not going to disagree. Keeping someone out of my house is definitely important. I am not as concerned about keeping them off my property. While the area I live in is within city limits, we do have a fair number of deer and other creatures visit our property fairly frequently, and I am just not anxious to be woken up by them. For me, turning out outside lights has worked quite well. I do understand that everyone has different perceptions of what the optimal security for their own situation is.

I should also say that I do like the idea that I can utilize the z-wave signal from my motion sensors so that if I did want to trigger a more aggressive alarm, such as turning on the siren outside my house, or the one just outside my bedroom, I could do that. But for now, those are just not on my radar. Turning on all the outside lights around the house simultaneously is enough for my needs.

Offline Jahart01

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Re: Z-wave Outdoor Motion Sensor
« Reply #25 on: August 16, 2018, 10:32:51 am »
I use SmartThings, but wanted to post a reply here in case it's helpful to anyone. I appreciate the great information here and have achieved a similar outcome but with a different device.

I used the Qubino Flush Dimmer to achieve a similar result. What I wanted was for my lights to come on at 30% in the evening, but then be triggered to 100% on motion. The qubino flush dimmer has three inputs. Rather than using the main input which would just turn the light on or off, I used the second input which acts as a contact sensor, but doesn't control the light directly.

I don't know how this would work on a non SmartThings system, but for me, I turn the light on at 30% at sunset. The red motion detector wire is fed into the second contact. When motion is detected, i get a closed contact in Smart things. A rule is set up in CoRE that if between sunset and sunrise, set light to 100% when that contact is closed. There is a "but-if" statement that if no closed contact for 2 minutes to either turn off or turn back to 30% (depending on time of day).