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Author Topic: Re-pairing a WDTC-20  (Read 10174 times)

Offline JOD

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #15 on: November 03, 2010, 01:06:27 pm »
@zmistro,
Assuming the network is corrupt then by all means start from scratch. However, if the device can be removed and a heal performed it should result in a healthy network again.

Regardless, that does not help in the situation of not being able to remove the device if the device itself will not allow the removal.
My statement of letting it sit was another option based on my experience. Of course in a perfect world the device would exclude with no issues. It's not, now what?

JOD.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Offline zmistro

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #16 on: November 03, 2010, 01:28:44 pm »
doing a heal network should not affect installed or corrupted installed devices. Heal network just updates node information to all nodes. updates best routing. If there is an unresponsive node it is just that. But it is still there.
I have worked with Zwave for four years now. If you are having problems include/exlude you must have pressed a button too soon or not allowed enogh time to include or exlude. Vera can be an issue here because I know that through the GUI MCV has changed the timeout timers for the process.

I have several controllers so I can do a inclusion or exlusion and see if there are any issues.

I have had many a corrupted installs in my day. However, I have realized that once it is corrupted it is always best to start over.

1) perform a exlusion of every device
2) reset each device to factory settings
3) reset your zwave network to factory ( power cycle after)
4) re-install each and every node. use the GUI and make sure each device is included one at a time.

Follow each manufacture for the reset of the particular device.

I promise you that if I have the device in my hands It would work ( unless the user shorted it out)

Offline JOD

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #17 on: November 03, 2010, 01:42:07 pm »
@zmistro,

I'm not doubting your experience but I think you are missing the point.
If the device has not been excluded then the device cannot be included. From what I am reading here the issue with the thermostat is it wont exclude from itself? Forget the fact the device has been deleted from the UI and the network issues...
Is that a correct assumption?

JOD.


I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Offline zmistro

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #18 on: November 03, 2010, 01:55:59 pm »
@zmistro,

I'm not doubting your experience but I think you are missing the point.
If the device has not been excluded then the device cannot be included. From what I am reading here the issue with the thermostat is it wont exclude from itself? Forget the fact the device has been deleted from the UI and the network issues...
Is that a correct assumption?

JOD.




Well not necessarily. Lets say you did nothing to exlude the WD from vera , then reset the WD to factory settings ( which is Highly recommended for every device prior to install)
Then included the WD in another network , The WD would still work. The original Vera would have a missing node.
Now if you exluded the WD from the second network and tried to install it in Vera again it could actually include. Vera my assign a new node even. However the old node info is still there and thus what I call a currupted network. I have found it's best to start from scratch.

If a user claims he cannot exlude  or include a device that was working properly it is usually operator error or in fuss the device got shorted. Being that the user claimed to have used "remove Dead node" I would bet lots of money on operator error.
I would suggest be patient and follow the instructions.


Offline JOD

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #19 on: November 03, 2010, 02:10:16 pm »
@JOD <<<<Beating head against the wall..
This conversation seems to mirror Vera and the WDTC-20.

Communication breakdown...  ;D

JOD.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Offline zmistro

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #20 on: November 03, 2010, 02:43:47 pm »
@JOD <<<<Beating head against the wall..
This conversation seems to mirror Vera and the WDTC-20.

Communication breakdown...  ;D

JOD.


Okay ..
then what are you trying to say then .

I just don't buy that the WD won't exclude or include. I just won't buy that.
The problem lies with Vera and some LED's. I don't and won't use vera that way. I will only use vera with the Web gui or a controller with a LCD display.
Knowing what the OP has problem with if I were to be hired to fix for him I would start from scratch. I would use a controller with a display and exlude all devices. I would not waste my time. ( that is unless the person wants to just throw money around)

Offline JOD

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #21 on: November 03, 2010, 03:39:09 pm »
I'll start by saying I do not know what the display of this t-stat looks like but using the Trane device which clearly states when it is included or availble to include.
Tried using the Vera1 dongle, but it seems like the WDTC-20 isn't wanting to cooperate in excluding itself :(.
Reading the above quote I am ASSUMING the T-stat will not physically exclude at the device itself, forget about the Vera or the UI at this point. Meaning it still shows a node ID on the thermostat or in some other way shows it as being paired.
That being said, if it cannot be physically excluded, it cannot be included in ANY network. (again using the Trane device as an example, the "Add device to network" option is not available when its already included) My suggestion from my experience with the Trane was removing power and letting it sit, It then allowed the exclusion process to take place at the device. I was then able to include it back in at the dongle and then at Vera.
Maybe a response from @sjolshagen with clarification is in order....

JOD.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Offline zmistro

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #22 on: November 03, 2010, 03:53:42 pm »
So you are going to rely on the OP and a Zwave dongle and it's blinking light.
The only thing I  rely on in Zwave is a alpha numeric display or a web interface.


Offline JOD

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #23 on: November 03, 2010, 04:15:09 pm »
@JOD<<<<Head bleeding, now plucking eyes out... ;D

Actually, I did a "Remove Dead Node" on the device in the UI. It seems like the WDTC-20 "bind" button refuses to work though.

Due to the above fact that the device has been deleted and the statment that the bind key is inop what else is there to rely on? I would rely more on the hardware indicators than the software. I will stand by my original advice to let the t-stat sit with no power and try to physically exclude it again later.

JOD.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Offline strangely

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #24 on: November 03, 2010, 04:23:15 pm »
@JOD<<<<Head bleeding, now plucking eyes out... ;D

Actually, I did a "Remove Dead Node" on the device in the UI. It seems like the WDTC-20 "bind" button refuses to work though.

Due to the above fact that the device has been deleted and the statment that the bind key is inop what else is there to rely on? I would rely more on the hardware indicators than the software. I will stand by my original advice to let the t-stat sit with no power and try to physically exclude it again later.

JOD.
LOL, I'm now stepping out of this one as I cant afford the blood, eyes or stress) other than to say, good luck to the OP and I'm 100% sure that the thermostat is fine (if it can be excluded or reset somehow)... Call WD!!!
« Last Edit: November 03, 2010, 04:27:05 pm by strangely »
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Offline sjolshagen

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #25 on: November 04, 2010, 05:26:11 pm »
@JOD <<<<Beating head against the wall..
This conversation seems to mirror Vera and the WDTC-20.

Communication breakdown...  ;D

JOD.


Okay ..
then what are you trying to say then .

I just don't buy that the WD won't exclude or include. I just won't buy that.
The problem lies with Vera and some LED's. I don't and won't use vera that way. I will only use vera with the Web gui or a controller with a LCD display.
Knowing what the OP has problem with if I were to be hired to fix for him I would start from scratch. I would use a controller with a display and exlude all devices. I would not waste my time. ( that is unless the person wants to just throw money around)


It's not a matter of faith here. The battery ran out on the WD over the summer (when I didn't need it), and when I attempted to replace the battery, it became obvious that the thermostat connectors on the back didn't actually interact with the installed wiring (which worked all last winter). This became obvious when, 24-48 hours later, the batteries died again. So I had the connectors fixed (bent out a little) and reinstalled the thermostat. However, the Vera2 (UI4) then appeared to have lost track of the WD.

I then (I think) screwed up and did a "remove dead node".

Any attempt to exclude the device, using both the dongle from the Vera1 I have lying around (the original device it was actually paired with, but which I since used as the foundation for the clone upgrade to my shiny new Vera2 - the device where I did a "remove dead node"). I've since attempted to exclude the WD using both the dongle and the Vera2 and in neither case does it appear as if the "Bind" button press(es) register by the dongle or the Vera2 while they're in exclusion mode.

So you can buy it or not, but unless you're able to prove that my eyes are badly broken, I'm seeing what I'm seeing; A WDTC-20 that will not be excluded nor included in my Z-wave network.

And as for redoing my entire network, that's a non-starter since I've got a few hundred lines of lua code in use to manage the thermostats. Every one of those lines of code rely on device ID numbers (unfortunately no support for using an abstracted - alias - device name *hint, hint*) and thus will need to be edited. I'm not in the mood to do that for a single device...
Vera3/UI5 @ v1.5.622

Offline zmistro

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #26 on: November 04, 2010, 06:08:26 pm »
Thanks for the additional information.
In any event it looks like your lua code will be broken as far as your WD stat in question.
Ok so in your case I would not do a complete network overhaul. You seem to know your stuff.

It would be great if Vera supported a replace node feature. As this would be easy.
Do you know how to SSH into your box and see what node the WD was? You can see if it is still there.

You can try this if you have not.
I don't think your WD is dead unles it got shorted somehow or maybe the battey killed it.
Short of that I would try to use a Zwave controller that has a display so you can verify removal. The WD only requires a quick tap of the bind button to include/remove.
I would use your old vera with the dongle installed and a pc /mac  open to Vera's web interface.
I would then go to the Device menu, Zwave, then " more Zwave options, then " "exclude -one- node -Full power"

With WD on new battery  and close to Vera click the go button, Wait for Vera to start the remove process. clcik the bind button ,don't hold it down.
Look at the screen. It should say " removed node xxxx.

Let vera cycle and try adding the WD buy choosing
Include - one - ........ click go-

Offline sjolshagen

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #27 on: November 04, 2010, 09:23:36 pm »

Do you know how to SSH into your box and see what node the WD was? You can see if it is still there.

You can try this if you have not.
I don't think your WD is dead unles it got shorted somehow or maybe the battey killed it.
Short of that I would try to use a Zwave controller that has a display so you can verify removal. The WD only requires a quick tap of the bind button to include/remove.
I would use your old vera with the dongle installed and a pc /mac  open to Vera's web interface.
I would then go to the Device menu, Zwave, then " more Zwave options, then " "exclude -one- node -Full power"

With WD on new battery  and close to Vera click the go button, Wait for Vera to start the remove process. clcik the bind button ,don't hold it down.
Look at the screen. It should say " removed node xxxx.

Let vera cycle and try adding the WD buy choosing
Include - one - ........ click go-


Other than the /www/luaupnp.xml file, I'm not seeing any persistent database/location that could possibly contain information about my WD. Is there somewhere I'm not finding?

Also (I upgraded the Vera1 to UI4 before getting the vera2), I'm not able to repair/remove/exclude the node from my vera1 w/the dongle. Is there a CLI (ssh) method to excluding it I could try?

Lastly, I'm seeing the following dmesg output which may not be related:

__alloc_pages: 0-order allocation failed (gfp=0x1d2/0)

// Thomas
Vera3/UI5 @ v1.5.622

Offline zmistro

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #28 on: November 04, 2010, 10:20:13 pm »
Does the bind button appear to do anything at all.
Have you snapped of the back to see if the button is broken?
I wish I was there to help!
It makes no sense to me.

What happens on the screen when you perform the exclude function with vera and the WD?

Offline sjolshagen

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Re: Re-pairing a WDTC-20
« Reply #29 on: November 04, 2010, 11:59:11 pm »
Does the bind button appear to do anything at all.

It doesn't appear to result in any activity anywhere, no.

Have you snapped of the back to see if the button is broken?

Yes I have (several times) and it doesn't appear to be broken. Meaning, there is a definitive connection between the actual button sensor & the plastic casing button. I've also attempted to directly press the button itself (using a small screw driver) which "clicks" nicely, but doesn't result in any activity on the screen or in Vera. Lastly I find it interesting that the blue light doesn't get triggered by any button on the device (at all).
 
What happens on the screen when you perform the exclude function with vera and the WD?

Nothing, regardless of how I go about attempting to exclude the device.
Vera3/UI5 @ v1.5.622