Author Topic: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)  (Read 41215 times)

Offline mcvflorin

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #240 on: June 22, 2017, 11:01:44 am »
@anyra

Please contact Customer Care, if they won't be able to help you, at least we'll know where the problem lies.

Offline doctorkb

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #241 on: June 22, 2017, 11:23:06 am »
Currently this is all the fan control the Nest API exposes. There aren't commands to start the fan for an undefined period of time, to stop the fan, to control its intensity or to schedule its run.
We'll implement additional features as the Nest API evolves over time and gives us more control over the thermostat functions.

That's actually not entirely true.

According to https://developers.nest.com/documentation/cloud/api-thermostat#fan_timer_active the variable "fan_timer_active" is read/write - which means you could stop the fan by writing "false" to that variable.

Furthermore, there is nothing preventing Vera from making a "turn on indefinitely" function that renews a 12-hour timer every 11 hours.

Offline beachboync

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #242 on: June 23, 2017, 08:21:45 am »
Mcvflorin, that doesn't work. Support has tried for weeks and can't make it work. I finally gave them access to my Nest login codes so they could try it for themselves and haven't heard back in days.

I will try it again, just in case.

Edit: this is the full http code that Tudor in support implemented and did not work:

os.execute("http://127.0.0.1/port_3480/data_request?id=lu_action&output_format=json&DeviceNum=56&serviceId=urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:VeraConnectWWN1&action=StartFan&Duration=15")

Device 36 is not the parent device. There are 3 devices created - the parent Nest, Nest temp/mode and Nest home/away. 36 is the temp/mode device. Is that correct?

Thank you, Bob
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 08:38:54 am by beachboync »
Bob (beachboync)

Offline Mircea-Ionut Teletin

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #243 on: June 23, 2017, 08:35:47 am »
@doctorkb: about the indefinite turn on, that could turn off Nest and our certification. We can't do anything automatically without having the same kind of visual confirmation from the user as the thermostat does. There's a lot of things we can't do just because of this "legalese" with other devices as well (Alexa comes form the top of my mind now) that are cloud powered and that might cause liability discussions between all the involved parties. We had to go past a certification phase to be able to provide you with the functionality you've seen.

Other than this, work on Nest is ongoing, it's not finished so expect to see more. All this feedback is good feedback and we're reading every bit and word you're saying and if it's something we can do there's no reason we won't do it. The only thing that's stopping us right now to deliver more of Nest is the backlog of priorities we're churning now as there's a lot of things we're working on. The good news is that Nest is not that far in our backlog and we'll be back with more in a few weeks.

Offline Mircea-Ionut Teletin

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #244 on: June 23, 2017, 08:38:09 am »
@beachboync: you said "for weeks" but that can't be true because we just released a new plugin + firmware combo that has this feature. Are you sure you have the latest versions of everything and that you went with this problem recently on Customer Care after all these latest updates?

Offline beachboync

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #245 on: June 23, 2017, 08:43:56 am »
Thank you Mircea-Ionut Teletin.

My original support request was in fact on 5/17 before the latest update. My original request was just to know how to turn the fan on/off and was not version related. After much connecting to my Vera and experimentation back then, I was told to wait for the next release. I did. It still doesn't work.

Customer care currently has my remote access code and also my Nest login and password.

If in fact the problem is a Nest issue, I would just like to know so that I don't spend a lot of time on this.

Bob
« Last Edit: June 23, 2017, 08:46:15 am by beachboync »
Bob (beachboync)

Offline anyra

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #246 on: June 23, 2017, 08:44:56 am »
@anyra

Please contact Customer Care, if they won't be able to help you, at least we'll know where the problem lies.

I fixed my "connecting issue" by running an update app, even I had the last version 1.104, after the attempting update it start connecting again and no more issues so far

Offline doctorkb

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #247 on: June 23, 2017, 11:23:40 am »
@doctorkb: about the indefinite turn on, that could turn off Nest and our certification. We can't do anything automatically without having the same kind of visual confirmation from the user as the thermostat does. There's a lot of things we can't do just because of this "legalese" with other devices as well (Alexa comes form the top of my mind now) that are cloud powered and that might cause liability discussions between all the involved parties. We had to go past a certification phase to be able to provide you with the functionality you've seen.

Other than this, work on Nest is ongoing, it's not finished so expect to see more. All this feedback is good feedback and we're reading every bit and word you're saying and if it's something we can do there's no reason we won't do it. The only thing that's stopping us right now to deliver more of Nest is the backlog of priorities we're churning now as there's a lot of things we're working on. The good news is that Nest is not that far in our backlog and we'll be back with more in a few weeks.

If your conversations with Nest say that, then I guess that's life.

That doesn't change the fact that you neglected to respond to me pointing out that the "turn fan off" function has nothing to do with the Nest API's deficiencies, and everything to do with you not having implemented it.

Of course, if the API restrictions get too onerous, there is an unofficial API available.  You'd lose the WWN sticker, but you'd still "work with Nest" and have a lot more flexibility.

To the poster wanting more control - if you're decent with PHP, the unofficial API here: https://github.com/gboudreau/nest-api works great.

Offline beachboync

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #248 on: June 23, 2017, 01:44:30 pm »
I just received a reply from "Don" in customer care. They modified the code to:

luup.inet.wget("http://127.0.0.1/port_3480/data_request?id=action&output_format=json&DeviceNum=56&serviceId=urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:VeraConnectWWN1&action=StartFan&Duration=15",10)

and it does seem to work.

I originally just wanted on/off, but on for a duration is OK. Now I just need OFF and will ask.

Bob
Bob (beachboync)

Offline beachboync

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #249 on: June 23, 2017, 03:28:23 pm »
Some more info.

Instead of:

luup.inet.wget("http://127.0.0.1/port_3480/data_request?id=action&output_format=json&DeviceNum=56&serviceId=urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:VeraConnectWWN1&action=StartFan&Duration=15",10)

you can create the same result by using the Advanced Editor, and add an action selecting the device, urn:micasaverde...Start Fan and set the duration.

The duration MUST be one of the standard durations that you see in the manual device fan control - i.e. 15,30,45, etc. 1 hour is of course duration=60.

Still waiting for OFF.

Bob
Bob (beachboync)

Offline Mircea-Ionut Teletin

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #250 on: June 26, 2017, 03:04:54 am »
@doctorkb:

I beg to differ. Nest is limiting the number of users a certain developer can route through their servers and even the rate of commands you can send to your thermostat. If you're not certified there's no access or the access is severely limited.

You now all have access to this functionality precisely because we got certified by Nest! Going the other way will just break things. We were even forced to get an unofficial plugin down from our store because we were held accountable by Nest and it was using "unofficial" or obsolete API. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to use Nest with Vera right now.

You can say all you want but I know for a fact that we're doing it the right way with Nest on board. Maybe we don't get things as fast as we would like so but this is because we're not cutting any corners.

If you're curious you can register as a developer on their portal and start looking at their review process, guidelines and API because nothing is hidden. You'll immediately notice that everything I said here is true.

I don't think that holding us accountable for something that Nest isn't providing for you as users in the first place is fair. You can use any 3rd party app out there, it's not Vera specific and you'll see the same thing, as for the fact that we didn't specifically told you that you can't do something with Nest and Vera... yes, we didn't do that but at the same time I think there's an bigger list of things that you can't do with Nest and Vera.

For example we chose to implement all the things that you can do with it and a bit more because we're working with Nest to convince them that we should be able to change the device name (room actually) with the ones you customize from Vera so it works both ways symmetrically because we think it's fair for our common users to do so and we're going to continue improving what we're providing to you guys. Have a little faith in us and you'll see that we're going to make it great for all of you.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2017, 03:13:39 am by Mircea-Ionut Teletin »

Offline doctorkb

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #251 on: June 26, 2017, 10:28:47 am »
@doctorkb:

I beg to differ. Nest is limiting the number of users a certain developer can route through their servers and even the rate of commands you can send to your thermostat. If you're not certified there's no access or the access is severely limited.

You now all have access to this functionality precisely because we got certified by Nest! Going the other way will just break things. We were even forced to get an unofficial plugin down from our store because we were held accountable by Nest and it was using "unofficial" or obsolete API. Otherwise you wouldn't be able to use Nest with Vera right now.

You can say all you want but I know for a fact that we're doing it the right way with Nest on board. Maybe we don't get things as fast as we would like so but this is because we're not cutting any corners.

If you're curious you can register as a developer on their portal and start looking at their review process, guidelines and API because nothing is hidden. You'll immediately notice that everything I said here is true.

I don't think that holding us accountable for something that Nest isn't providing for you as users in the first place is fair. You can use any 3rd party app out there, it's not Vera specific and you'll see the same thing, as for the fact that we didn't specifically told you that you can't do something with Nest and Vera... yes, we didn't do that but at the same time I think there's an bigger list of things that you can't do with Nest and Vera.

For example we chose to implement all the things that you can do with it and a bit more because we're working with Nest to convince them that we should be able to change the device name (room actually) with the ones you customize from Vera so it works both ways symmetrically because we think it's fair for our common users to do so and we're going to continue improving what we're providing to you guys. Have a little faith in us and you'll see that we're going to make it great for all of you.

You clearly aren't reading my posts thoroughly.

I gave you VERY clear instructions, referencing the Nest Official API on how you can "turn fan off" - a feature you say Nest hasn't implemented.  You continue to pass the buck.

Whether you had a take-down order or not about an unofficial plug-in is the subject of lore.  The fact is, an unofficial API exists, and it WORKS BETTER THAN THE OFFICIAL.

I'll note that in the several years that I have been using that unofficial API, the longest it stops working for is a day or two when Nest updates.  Cumulatively, I've had more downtime in the Vera WWN in the past *year* than I have in about 3 years with the unofficial API.  I'll reference the weeks-long issues you had following Christmas 2016.

The bottom line is that you're making decisions that seem to be "good" ones, but Nest isn't playing fair.  As most Vera users appear to be hobbyists that would also enjoy getting a Raspberry Pi set up and run the unofficial API that I referenced, I think you'll see lower uptake of the Vera WWN plug-in.  I should also point out that you still haven't managed to integrate Nest Cams with Vera - even displaying the live feed would be appreciated.

Offline Mircea-Ionut Teletin

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #252 on: June 27, 2017, 03:49:37 am »
@doctorkb:

1. You might be right with the fan off option. And if so, as I previously said, all feedback is good feedback and we're reading it all, we're all in the same boat here.

2. We're not trying to corner our users in using just our plugin, we're trying to enable our users. All of our users because not all are hobbyists.

3. The Christmas 2016 issues are all related to the certification process and the number of concurrent users Nest allows to use with Vera. The certification I'm talking about just resolved this exact issue you're talking about. A lot of the recent work was put in things that are not that visible (like fan functions).

4. Nest Cams are on our backlog but you'll have to wait a bit for this.

Offline acucons

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #253 on: August 03, 2017, 09:16:59 pm »
Hi, Did the upgrade and things worked fine, but now, my Vera reads the information from Nest correctly, but does not allow me to make any changes.  If I try to change the temperature for instance, I get a "Thermostat not online" message.  I just updated to most current FW, still broken.

Any suggestions?

Thanks,
jack

Offline acucons

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Re: PLUGIN: New VeraConnect WWN (Work With Nest)
« Reply #254 on: August 05, 2017, 09:26:53 am »
Hi,
After a more careful read, it appears that sometimes the WWn interface works and sometimes it doesnt based on the allowed concurrent sessions solely controlled by Nest.

Clearly, just like the web browser wars of a decade ago, there are a number of powerful companies that want to control the home automation gateway market, and what a better way to do it that to f*ck over folks like us that chose the open Vera system.

I am glad i dont have Nest cameras (I use HIK Vision which are top quality and work great with Vera) and i think i might get an ecobee thermostat and put my nest on ebay...