Author Topic: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer  (Read 2066 times)

Offline TheRedPill

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 110
  • Karma: +0/-3
Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« on: November 11, 2017, 04:29:18 pm »
So after losing all confidence in MCV adding support for new devices in a timely period and with my Vera having persistent unreliability, including at some critical times such as during an attempted break in, when certain things did not fire to scare them off as they should, I have decided to take advantage of black friday deals and pushed the button on HS3. Already have a PC running Blue Iris so no hardware costs except Z-wave interface. Looks like i need 4 paid plugins so all in its going to set me back about 50 quid extra, by the time I sell the 2 Veras. First impressions are mostly good. Its taken me about 2-3 hrs to get set up and get my head around it, including building some complex logic that took me many hours to work out in Vera with PLEG. The bad - the UI is ugly as sin! I think Homeseer should be ashamed of themselves... but it is simple and logical and just works. How it is that Vera still doesnt have a simple if/then/else logic built in, I really struggle to understand. PLEG is a great workaround, but its not the same. Being able to easily create and manage conditions, timers, counters, virtual devices, all natively and include them in events is just so much easier.
Anyway, Vera got me into Home automation and I have a lot of love for it and this community, I just cant wait any longer for a stable environment or device support, so I wish everyone all the best and hopefully one day this will be my platform of choice again.

Thanks

Offline jaccord

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 69
  • Karma: +1/-4
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #1 on: November 14, 2017, 06:46:51 pm »
I came here today to write the same thing.  Took advantage of the 1/2 off sale at Homeseer and spent the weekend updating two Vera installations to Homeseer.  Only been a few days, but it's infinitely more comprehensive and reliable.

Now to unload my old Vera equipment somewhere.

Offline integlikewhoa

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5613
  • Karma: +155/-373
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #2 on: November 14, 2017, 07:35:10 pm »
Welcome

Offline farfromuman

  • Sr. Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 37
  • Karma: +1/-3
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 10:26:03 pm »
I just got Homeseer as well, last Vera firmware had to be rolled back and currently can?t add any devices -  very frustrating.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Offline dannieboiz

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 413
  • Karma: +2/-3
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2017, 10:04:56 pm »
I gave up Vera last month during the sale as well.... if you don't have a USB stick and just looking at the interface, it seems very intimidating. Get a USB stick add at least one device to it then it'll all make sense.

Being on UI5 since forever and each time I try UI7 more things are broken than fixed and my aging Vera 3 isn't capable of supporting my network efficiently. It was time to move on and is probably the best thing I did for my HA.

Offline Inzax

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 339
  • Karma: +22/-62
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #5 on: December 19, 2017, 08:10:27 am »
The last couple of weeks have been a challenge for me when it comes to Vera.  The latest updates in firmware have caused havoc, causing my system to become a mess.  I have had to roll back to 1.7.2931 on the edge.  I have been browsing the homeseer website and trying to decide if I am going to jump.

The one thing I like about my vera is geofencing.  For me it has been solid.  Looking at homeseer I see they offer similar functionality however, it seems a little more in depth to set up.  My experience with Vera makes me shudder at a new learning curve.  A learning curve that frequently leads to hours of crushing, eye blurring, screen time, only to be disappointing at the end.  Yes..for the money, I think Vera is doing pretty good for itself.  I enjoy it when it works.  Its the hidden bugs and unpredictability of the box that is giving me pause.

Have any of you used geofencing in Homeseer?  Thoughts?  I use my vera geofencing for light automation's, notifications/mode changes at different times of day.

Thanks.
Proud Member of the Epic Smite Thread.
VeraSecure; Concord 4 Panel; 6 IP Cameras; Imperiehome; Housemodes; system monitor; DeusexmachinaII; Vera Concierge

Offline michaelhinchey

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 148
  • Karma: +2/-2
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #6 on: December 19, 2017, 12:25:58 pm »
I also am thinking about moving to homeseer.  The if/then not being implemented at this stage in life of Vera is just sad.  Homeseer is a bit more expensive yes, but the ability to logically put it the if this , then that happens just seems so pleasing to me.
   I can't make a door sensor not lock the door when it's open easily and still have an automated lock feature every 2 hours on the door just kills me. 
   I'm sure the homeseer people have moved on to their forums but I would like to hear about their move a bit more.

Offline integlikewhoa

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5613
  • Karma: +155/-373
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #7 on: December 19, 2017, 05:38:45 pm »
I also am thinking about moving to homeseer.  The if/then not being implemented at this stage in life of Vera is just sad.  Homeseer is a bit more expensive yes, but the ability to logically put it the if this , then that happens just seems so pleasing to me.
   I can't make a door sensor not lock the door when it's open easily and still have an automated lock feature every 2 hours on the door just kills me. 
   I'm sure the homeseer people have moved on to their forums but I would like to hear about their move a bit more.

I get updates on this thread, but I moved awhile back ago now. Maybe 2 years or a bit less I'm guessing but lost track of time. The stability is way better the control of z-wave is way better, the logging is way better. It was an easy move for me as I already had a sever running 24/7 for blue iris, plex and some other things. a 35.00 zwave stick and 50% off the HS3 software was all that was needed out of the gate for me. I have bought some plugins (probley 4 paid) but have around 14 plugins total.

To me HS3 Pro is not worth the cost vs. HS3.
I use Imperihome app, the stock HStouch is bad, buying the designer is expensive and will require alot of time to setup. Designer is great after you get it setup but its not for the Noob and not a great project to start when you just learning HS3 in general.

Not sure what else you need to know, but there is alot of other threads already on this topic. PM if you have questions that you cant find the answers too, but I have wrote about the move more then once already.   

Online Sammy2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
  • Karma: +4/-4
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #8 on: December 19, 2017, 08:25:10 pm »
I also am thinking about moving to homeseer.  The if/then not being implemented at this stage in life of Vera is just sad.  Homeseer is a bit more expensive yes, but the ability to logically put it the if this , then that happens just seems so pleasing to me.
   I can't make a door sensor not lock the door when it's open easily and still have an automated lock feature every 2 hours on the door just kills me. 
   I'm sure the homeseer people have moved on to their forums but I would like to hear about their move a bit more.

I get updates on this thread, but I moved awhile back ago now. Maybe 2 years or a bit less I'm guessing but lost track of time. The stability is way better the control of z-wave is way better, the logging is way better. It was an easy move for me as I already had a sever running 24/7 for blue iris, plex and some other things. a 35.00 zwave stick and 50% off the HS3 software was all that was needed out of the gate for me. I have bought some plugins (probley 4 paid) but have around 14 plugins total.

To me HS3 Pro is not worth the cost vs. HS3.
I use Imperihome app, the stock HStouch is bad, buying the designer is expensive and will require alot of time to setup. Designer is great after you get it setup but its not for the Noob and not a great project to start when you just learning HS3 in general.

Not sure what else you need to know, but there is alot of other threads already on this topic. PM if you have questions that you cant find the answers too, but I have wrote about the move more then once already.

I have an inkling what those "other things" might be.. ;)

So how much do you think you've spent on HomeSeer implementation altogether, including the s/w, plugins and module? I pondered the black friday sale last month and decided to stick with Vera for little while longer at least. Next time they go half off it might be time, but I was looking at more than 4 paid plugins as far as I could tell. What's the difference between regular and Pro?

Thanks!

Offline kwieto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Karma: +15/-10
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #9 on: December 20, 2017, 04:17:06 am »
If I may add my 0.03$, I recently repurchased Plus from a guy who moved to HomeSeer. We had a little chat about comparing both systems.
According ton his opinion major difference is in the speed (but he put his HS system on a gaming laptop, so I'm not surprised), which was his biggest need (he wanted to avoid any delays in switching lights, for example).

As for migration he said that he could migrate most of his setup directly from Vera to HS, so he didn't have to recreate whole setup from the scratch. There were some devices which he couldn't make working with HS (i.e. some IP cam) while they were working with Vera, but generally he considered transition as smooth.
For user friendliness, he rated both systems as similar, as well as for stability.
According to what he said, the major difference between regular and Pro versions is ability to create own app interface if you have Pro, so he didn't decide to buy a Pro.

But he complained about the price, especially price of the plugins. To have similar functionality as he had with free plugins in Vera he had to pay certain amount of money (like 30$ for each plugin -which is about 1/3 of the Edge's price, and most plugins cost around 40$ - and he needed couple of them). Licence is not transferable, so you can't sell the system if you decide to change it.
Another thing (but mentioned as less painful than the price) was for example lack of solution like House Modes, so he needed to put additional logic to his scenes to re-create proper behaviour.


I think here on the forum there is overpopulation of so called "hostages" - people who are not happy with Vera but feel somehow forced to use it. When they move (usually to HS) they create posts with long explanations why they moved - mainly complaints about Vera ending with "I finally moved and I'm happy". I have doubts if these comments are reliable, as they are usually very emotional and thus there is strong chance that any difficulties with HS will be omitted (I rarely hear about what's bad about HS in such threads, and even if some "difficult" topics are mentioned they are usually minimized - "yes, plugins are pricey, but I don't use many", while in reality even for using Imperihome app or Netatmo weather station you have to pay for the plugin)

From what I've learned already, I think it depends on your needs. If you already have a computer/server running all the time in your house or don't mind installing one, HS is maybe worth trying, as HS system is mainly designed to run on a computer (I suppose HS "Trolleys" are in fact computers adapted to run HS software only, similar way as you can do it on Raspberry Pi). If you want to have a system avoiding running computer all the time or the cost of it is important for you, Vera is probably a better option.
Vera is also probably better if you want to create things in trial-and-error way. For example, there is no problem to integrate Arduino devices and see if they work for you (there is low cost if they don't, just price of Arduino equipment), while on HS you have to pay 35$ for plugin allowing you such tries, which makes them more costly if your setup will not work as you assumed.

« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 04:32:52 am by kwieto »

Offline cc4005

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 85
  • Karma: +2/-0
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #10 on: December 20, 2017, 09:31:12 am »
kwieto, I'm in the throws of dealing with a Vera Plus completely down after weeks of intermittent problems, culminating with a crash yesterday. I've had several HS forum and product web pages up on my desktop for the past few days researching, thinking about a switch. I'm currently one of those emotional people you refer to. :-)  Your rational post above has talked me off the ledge--for the moment at least. Thanks.

Offline kwieto

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 347
  • Karma: +15/-10
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #11 on: December 20, 2017, 10:35:14 am »
You know, I've never used HomeSeer by myself, so maybe it is as good as some claim.

But I have enough experience with alternative systems in other areas (like: PC/Mac, iOS/Android/Windows Phone, etc.) to know that usually every platform has both advantages and disadvantages. The trick is to choose the one with least drawbacks and most advantages for specific user (and this will of course vary from person to person).

This is why I doubt in reliability of comments from users who migrate to HS posted here. For obvious reasons you can't expect rational comparison from such comments. I really miss some reasonable summary of both systems, what are advantages and disadvantages of both.
On the market where I live Fibaro is very popular, but most professionals say that Vera is more versatile = better for more advanced configuration. And price of Fibaro's HC2 (HC Lite doesn't even allow lua coding) is higher than Vera Secure, where you still have only Z-wave onboard and (as far as I remember) don't even a WiFi communication.

My life with Vera somtimes is not smooth as well (i.e. my two Edge's broke during a year, fortunately both still under warranty), but from the other hand if I take into consideration all factors (costs, time, potential compatibility issues with devices which are crucial for my setup, etc.), the grass on the other side looks a bit less greener than at the first look.
And I don't have any guarantee that, for example, equipment from other manufacturers won't be bricked the same as Vera was, as it might be a problem of external factors (like power outages or peaks which sometimes happen at the location where both "bricked" controllers were.


Offline integlikewhoa

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5613
  • Karma: +155/-373
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #12 on: December 20, 2017, 10:55:40 am »
I have an inkling what those "other things" might be.. ;)

Well yes I run HomeSeer on it now, but other things I meant were
1) ubiquiti unifi controller for my home network
2) I run an app on all the phones in the house to backup my daily pics and videos to this server rather then a cloud
3) I run Ha-Bridge (and have for a few years) to control my z-wave lights with my harmony remote and at the time alexa (now its not needed)

So I have had a server running next to vera before I got rid of vera. The biggest hog on my server is BLUEIRIS followed by PLEX. I have upgraded it more then once as my cameras and plex needs have grown. Its a i7-7700 rackmounted with 16Gb of RAM. Its not cheap and its not what I would run just for HomeSeer. So altho I need something to run HS3 on I don't include this 1k plus server in my Homeseer cost. If I was to run only homeseer on a pc I would get a 200.00 or less headless wintel computer to run it on. Some people like linux (and I can see it having less overhead) but I have tried it on a pi and I hate linux and don't have enough knowledge.  Things like mounting a usb stick, and auto lauching apps on startup became long tasks that I couldn't figure out right. So I'm a windows person.

So how much do you think you've spent on HomeSeer implementation altogether, including the s/w, plugins and module? I pondered the black friday sale last month and decided to stick with Vera for little while longer at least. Next time they go half off it might be time, but I was looking at more than 4 paid plugins as far as I could tell. What's the difference between regular and Pro?
I have attached the plugins I have and you can see I have 4 paid. I didn't check the recent prices but I'm guessing I spent 100 in plugins over the last year or so. I also spend 35 for the usb dongle and 125 for the HS3 software. I had the sever, but I would account for 200 if I were starting from scratch. I don't like their own hardware options. to get windows you need to spend almost 1k and you don't get a very good hardware package for the price if you ask me. But seems better for some who want everything done for them.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 10:57:18 am by integlikewhoa »

Online Sammy2

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 779
  • Karma: +4/-4
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #13 on: December 20, 2017, 11:03:01 am »
I have two 24 7 PC's i5 Devil's Canyon that are three years old that I could run this on. One runs BlueIris, nzbget, sonarr and radarr. The other runs Emby Server and WMC. The decond one is less taxed so I'd run HomeSEER from it if I were to do this.. or from my Master Bedroom NUC for that matter.

How to migrate devices and scenes from Vera to HomeSEER without starting over?

Sent from my SM-G930P using Tapatalk
« Last Edit: December 20, 2017, 11:06:08 am by Sammy2 »

Offline integlikewhoa

  • Master Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 5613
  • Karma: +155/-373
Re: Finally giving up and off to Homeseer
« Reply #14 on: December 20, 2017, 12:55:38 pm »
I have two 24 7 PC's i5 Devil's Canyon that are three years old that I could run this on. One runs BlueIris, nzbget, sonarr and radarr. The other runs Emby Server and WMC. The decond one is less taxed so I'd run HomeSEER from it if I were to do this.. or from my Master Bedroom NUC for that matter.

You way ahead of the game on hardware and good to go. HS3 uses less then 1% of my cpu and few Mb of RAM. It's no hog and doesn't need an i5 or i7 to be fast.

How to migrate devices and scenes from Vera to HomeSEER without starting over?

So I have two houses and run a similer setup at both. Both used to run vera also. I did one house at a time.

To be honest your starting over. I mean there is no way to import scenes. There maybe a way to import devices but I didn't. I walked around with a mobile phone and the homeseer including app and added devices after I excluded them from vera. I tried to do a few at a time, but you won't be able to make EVENTs or scenes as vera calls them without the device in HS3. So I just went all in and was done in an hour or so.

My Scenes were in PLEG and I printed the PDF (and saved backups) before I started. Honestly I recreated the scene way faster then PLEG and It not really done in the same way either. So it took some time but you are starting from scratch besides the template I printed out.

You can make virtual devices, install plugins, and do some pre prep work ahead of time. Its hard to make events with only virtual devices but you can test it and get a fell before jumping in. You can even get mobile apps and such up and running without any devices (or virtual devices).

If your sever is not centralized (mine is in a main house the media closet rack is in the hallway center of the house) then a Z-net ($$$$) is ideal. The vacation house is much bigger and I always had problems with vera reaching the back Detached workshop and RV garages. Things would work then stop after a bit due to range issues. In that house I actually run the server with a USB stick on one side of the house, a Z-net on the other then another Z-net in the back RV Garage. I probley could have gotten away with less but this house has GE switches around 60 of them.  And these older GE switches don't have instant status unless they are direct to the controller. HomeSeer makes it super easy to have multiple Z-wave networks with one HS3 controller. The app (or web UI) lets me choose which z-wave controller I want to add the device too. 

I would start with a z-wave usb stick and if you need a z-net that's an option, and you can keep both.