Author Topic: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)  (Read 307 times)

Offline MichaelCoffin

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How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« on: November 12, 2017, 09:01:00 am »
Sorry if this has been asked and answered, I've searched tons of messages on "associations" and "groups" but can't find any basic step-by-step instructions, I hope someone can help me.  :)

I have 3 devices that I want to associate in a group, so whenever one device in the group changes ALL devices in the group make the same change:

Wall Switch: Leviton DZ6HD-1BZ, Device ID #71
Lamp1 Module: Leviton VRPD3-1LW, Device ID #75
Lamp2 Module: Leviton VRPD3-1LW, Device ID #76

One each Device Settings page I changed "Automatically Configure" from "Use default values" to "Yes" per the note on Device Options page which reads "You must leave automatically configure on before this works".  Since "on" is not an actual setting, I assume this note means set the value to "Yes".

I created Group ID 1 for each device, and identified the other members of the group, so for example on the Device Settings page:

ID71: Group ID:     1;Set to:    75,76
ID75: Group ID:     1;Set to:    71,76
ID76: Group ID:     1;Set to:    71,75

All of these devices support Command Class 133.

It doesn't work, when I change the status (power level, on, off) of any one device in the group, none of the other devices in the group are notified and synch to it.

What am I doing wrong?

-MC

Offline shallowearth

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #1 on: November 12, 2017, 12:48:12 pm »
Unfortunately the Leviton Decora line does not support direct association, only the more expensive Vizia line supports direct association.

Otherwise you have done it correctly,  (though you don't need to mess with the automically configure setting).

But it isn't going to work with the switches you have bought.  Sorry.

Offline MichaelCoffin

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #2 on: November 12, 2017, 01:50:44 pm »
Ugh!  Thanks much for that info, I'm pretty shocked - these are EXPENSIVE switches (around $50/switch, and I'm doing around 50 of them!), and their latest generation z-Wave Plus.

The lamp modules are older, I think I bought those 4 or 5 years ago for another house.

Oh well, I can do the same thing with scenes - it just would have made better sense to use Associations.

-MC

Offline MichaelCoffin

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2017, 09:23:40 am »
Well this is confusing, according to Leviton's published info for this switch it DOES support Association (Group 1):

https://www.leviton.com/en/docs/DI-000-DZ6HD-02A-W.pdf

Now I'm twice as confused, does the device support Associations or not?  And is it only Group 1 - I'd like to do Associations for double-tap which I think is (normally) Group 2?

-MC

Offline shallowearth

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2017, 06:27:54 pm »
Doh!  You are right looks like it does support Association (it is instant status that is not going to work).  Looks like they only support group 1 with a single tap (group 2 does not necessarily mean double tap each manufacture is different, some use Group 2 instead of Group 1).

What I have found (and what they don't allow you to set in the parameters in the manual) is that zwave+ switches will not associate correctly to switches that are not zwave+ as they send out the commands encrypted (where non-zwave+ is unencrypted).  Most of the other zwave+ devices I have seen to work around that limitation allow you to either set a parameter to have the association be "unsecure" or you have to include the switch in "unsecure" or "legacy" mode.  Unfortunately Vera doesn't let you specify that one way or another. 

However it looks like your target devices are also zwave+ devices so things should work.  They are all zwave+ right?

One thing I would try... exclude and re-include the switches and lamp modules to ensure all association data gets wiped. Try associating one wall switch to the other in group 1.  That will help identify for sure that the wall switches (identical devices) are working with direct association. 
 

 

Offline zedrally

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #5 on: November 14, 2017, 06:37:26 pm »
Group 1 is the Life Line Group which supports Instant Status.
Whether Vera supports it is another matter.


The instructions should tell you which Group(s) you can use, but I would start with Group 2 as shallowearth suggests, if there is no joy try 3.
Living in the Land of Oz, give me a vegemite sandwich. Home Seer, Vera Lite & Edge, Popp, Black Cat Smart Hub & Vera G, Black Cat Lite 1 & 2's a Black Cat Dimmer or 2, then some  Black Cat Cat's Eye PIR's & Door-Window Sensors plus a Z-UNO or 2.

Offline shallowearth

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #6 on: November 15, 2017, 11:52:18 am »
It only supports Group 1.  Attached is snippet from manual.

Which is wicked confusing.  It says it is a lifeline group... but then says all status changes are communicated.
so basically, it may or may not work the statements seem a little contradictory.  But if it is Lifeline only that isn't going to do what you want in all likihood.  That LIfeline thing is really only to associate back to Vera to get instant status.

But reading this thread:  http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,26227.0.html

That doesn't work either.  Though there is a hack in the thread to get something close to instant status (due to a bug in Vera not understanding hte difference between the Decor and RF+ lines)

Offline MichaelCoffin

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #7 on: November 15, 2017, 05:54:47 pm »
However it looks like your target devices are also zwave+ devices so things should work.  They are all zwave+ right?

It doesn't look like the VRPD3-1LW units are z-wave plus (these are older modules, maybe 5 years old).  I'll try associating a pair of DZ6HD-1BZ switches in Group 1 and see if that works and report back.

Meanwhile, it looks like someone wrote the code to fully support these Leviton Decora z-wave switches for SmartThings, can this code be deployed on Vera?

https://github.com/jasonxh/SmartThings-jasonxh/blob/master/devicetypes/jasonxh/leviton-decora-zwave-plus-dimmer.src/leviton-decora-zwave-plus-dimmer.groovy

-MC

Offline Sammy2

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #8 on: November 15, 2017, 07:05:23 pm »
This sounds like a job for PLEG.

Offline zedrally

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2017, 07:21:10 pm »
PLEG will do the job OK, but this appears to be a common problem with Vera in not properly supporting Group Associations.
Just a query - you have Added Group 1 Device Options Tab?
Could you post a screen shot of the current group config such as this example?
Living in the Land of Oz, give me a vegemite sandwich. Home Seer, Vera Lite & Edge, Popp, Black Cat Smart Hub & Vera G, Black Cat Lite 1 & 2's a Black Cat Dimmer or 2, then some  Black Cat Cat's Eye PIR's & Door-Window Sensors plus a Z-UNO or 2.

Offline MichaelCoffin

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #10 on: November 16, 2017, 03:27:40 pm »
PLEG will do the job OK, but this appears to be a common problem with Vera in not properly supporting Group Associations.
Just a query - you have Added Group 1 Device Options Tab?
Could you post a screen shot of the current group config such as this example?

I no longer have the Group 1 associations in place (I deleted them), it was as I described in my first post above.  I'll set up a new association when I have time (probably this weekend), and can do a screen shot then.  :)

-MC

Offline MichaelCoffin

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #11 on: November 18, 2017, 10:27:33 am »
I ran a test this morning, associating two Leviton DZ6HD-1BZ switches (both z-Wave Plus) in Association Group 1, it didn't work.

The devices are:

ID 58: Dining - Art
ID 58: Dining - Table

Each of the device option pages is attached.

I coded both device ids on both Associations so for example when I was configuring Device 58 I associated it with Devices 56 AND 58.  It wasn't clear if I should ONLY associate 58 with 56, and 56 with 58.  Also, on the Association page, there are free-form text boxes with these instructions:

The text boxes are only valid with devices that support multi-channel association. Type the endpoint(s) you want to be part of the association, separated by commas if there is more than one.

So does that mean I need to type in the device ids separated by commas IN ADDITION to selecting them with the checkboxes?  It's not very clear.

-MC


Offline zedrally

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #12 on: November 18, 2017, 03:41:14 pm »

So does that mean I need to type in the device ids separated by commas IN ADDITION to selecting them with the checkboxes?  It's not very clear.

-MC


 like everything with Group Associations it's clear as muddy water.


What it refers to another point of confusion-Endpoints.
You will need to determine what the endpoint(s) of the Multi Channel device you are using are.
Generally this could be 1,2,3 etc unless the documentation states what they are and what they Node they control then you can only guess- far from ideal and extremely time consuming as you have now found out.


So in theory what you need to do is to select the Device you want to control from the Device (that is controlling) Options TAB and add the endpoint (1,2,3 etc) and save.
Good luck:)
Living in the Land of Oz, give me a vegemite sandwich. Home Seer, Vera Lite & Edge, Popp, Black Cat Smart Hub & Vera G, Black Cat Lite 1 & 2's a Black Cat Dimmer or 2, then some  Black Cat Cat's Eye PIR's & Door-Window Sensors plus a Z-UNO or 2.

Offline shallowearth

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #13 on: November 18, 2017, 06:44:47 pm »
Very very few devices support end points.  You should have to mess with those.

All you need to do is check the box of the device you want target (associations work from source to target). You just need to select the target.  If you want the association to work in both directions then do the same thing on the other device again using group 1 and target the original device.

Offline MichaelCoffin

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Re: How To Setup Hardware Associations (a.k.a. Groups)
« Reply #14 on: November 18, 2017, 07:27:04 pm »
I tried changing the associations so 56 only pointed to 58, and 58 only pointed to 56, in Group 1 - still no love, it just doesn't work.

To add insult to injury, the VeraPlus keeps restarting now - reconfiguring EVERY device, never finishing, and restarting again - I'll have to contact Tech Support tomorrow or Monday and have them take a look.  I did add 7 more Leviton DZ6HD-1BZ switches today and the last one (Device #83) doesn't look like it configured properly so that might be the cause of the looping Vera, but just to be sure I removed the associations I set up and deleted Device #83 (but it looks like Vera is still trying to configure it, and the "delete" must be queued to execute AFTER the configuration completes - and since that never happens there's a Catch-22, the device still shows in the UI with a status of Purging Associations - I never did any associations with this switch however).

-MC