Help, really struggling to get a couple of in wall modules working

[simonk83]

Almost complete with a new reno, and I've had my electrician wire either Aeon dual nano switches, or Aeon nano dimmers behind the majority of the lights, with momentary switches. The dimmers all work aside from one, and the dual nano's seem to work again aside from one.

The sparky has wired the modules, and they have power, but they're not controlling the lights properly. For the working modules, I put them in auto detection mode (press the module button 4 times quickly, then clicked the light switch) which succeeded in turning on the lights, but not with these 2.

I spent a few hours there tonight trying to get things working,. It's weird. If the module is in its default state, with the LED cycling through the colours, pressing the action button on the module turns on the light (and puts it in include mode). Pressing it again turns off the light. As far as I can tell, this is expected behaviour. During all this, if I press the light switch button I get this: https://www.dropbox.com/s/qlvxpqw4enfhml1/Video%2014-11-17%2C%207%2028%2058%20pm.mov?dl=1
I can include the module just fine, and it turns on and off from within Vera no problem, just the actual light switch doesn't work. For the dual nano I tried adding a parameter 120, 1 byte dec with a value of 3 (for push button) and also a value of 0 (for auto detect) but neither worked.

My only other thing to try really is upgrade the firmware on the Vera (I was a few behind) and choose the new Nano Switch option (I had to use the closest thing to it tonight). Hoping that exposes some more options or something

Any help really appreciated!

[ninkasi]

OK - it's a little hard to tell but my guess is the sparky has wired up the switch incorrectly ie not followed the directions in the little brochure. Usually the switch & dimmer are all one item. The important thing for the sparky to understand is in this case the switch and dimmer *is* the Nano dimmer. The physical switch becomes an *extra* switch with no actual load on it, that should just have two wires running from it to/from the Nano switch/dimmer (to com and either s1 or s2). From the video it looks like there is a wire connecting the switch to s2, and the wire from com goes back into the wall perhaps to the light.

Basically, fairly amazing it's working at all. :-)

Resolution - either live without the switch or (better) call in the sparky to redo it so that all the lighting wires terminate in the nano dimmer/switch, and there are two dedicated wires running from com & s1 to the switch.

[simonk83]

OK - it's a little hard to tell but my guess is the sparky has wired up the switch incorrectly ie not followed the directions in the little brochure. Usually the switch & dimmer are all one item. The important thing for the sparky to understand is in this case the switch and dimmer *is* the Nano dimmer. The physical switch becomes an *extra* switch with no actual load on it, that should just have two wires running from it to/from the Nano switch/dimmer (to com and either s1 or s2). From the video it looks like there is a wire connecting the switch to s2, and the wire from com goes back into the wall perhaps to the light.

Basically, fairly amazing it's working at all. :-)

Resolution - either live without the switch or (better) call in the sparky to redo it so that all the lighting wires terminate in the nano dimmer/switch, and there are two dedicated wires running from com & s1 to the switch.

Wellll, I didn't do a very good job of this thread really, as the video I took is actually of a dual nano switch that's wired in a 3 way configuration.    The dimmer is in another room and is much more simply wired (I'll take a photo of that in a few hours and post it), but the problem is essentially the same (I can turn the light on and off using the button on the module, but not the light switch).    I'm heading there shortly to play around so I'll grab as much detail as I can.   Appreciate the help!

Could well be bad wiring, but the same sparky wired other rooms with the same dimmers and they all work.

[ninkasi]

Could well be bad wiring, but the same sparky wired other rooms with the same dimmers and they all work.

I've had electricians do all sorts of things - hey, they're only human - but basically there are way too many wires going into that switch as it is. Most of them should terminate in the nano dimmer/switch. Again, the important part to make sure the sparky understands is that the nano dimmer/switch is both a dimmer and a switch. The physical switch plays no role in the electrical wiring - it is just connected to the nano dimmer/switch to provide a manual means of operating that switch.

Anyhow, main thing is for you/the sparky to check to make sure that there are only wires running from the nano dimmer/switch to/from the physical switch via com and s1 or s2. If you have a more complex system that's fine, the main thing being that the wires going to com/s1/s2 should all only be coming/going to the physical switch(s). Being Mr Obvious here, but the wiring is obviously live in the video so be VERY careful when touching it. At best you could blow the fuses in the house. At worst, you could blow the fuses in your body. ;-) So now that the dimmer is associated with your Vera just turn the power off to the light from the fuse box before doing any cable tracing. Ideally also use a power tester to make sure it's not live, or simply just leave it up to the sparky to resolve.

Cheers

[simonk83]

Could well be bad wiring, but the same sparky wired other rooms with the same dimmers and they all work.

I've had electricians do all sorts of things - hey, they're only human - but basically there are way too many wires going into that switch as it is. Most of them should terminate in the nano dimmer/switch. Again, the important part to make sure the sparky understands is that the nano dimmer/switch is both a dimmer and a switch. The physical switch plays no role in the electrical wiring - it is just connected to the nano dimmer/switch to provide a manual means of operating that switch.

Anyhow, main thing is for you/the sparky to check to make sure that there are only wires running from the nano dimmer/switch to/from the physical switch via com and s1 or s2. If you have a more complex system that's fine, the main thing being that the wires going to com/s1/s2 should all only be coming/going to the physical switch(s). Being Mr Obvious here, but the wiring is obviously live in the video so be VERY careful when touching it. At best you could blow the fuses in the house. At worst, you could blow the fuses in your body. ;-) So now that the dimmer is associated with your Vera just turn the power off to the light from the fuse box before doing any cable tracing. Ideally also use a power tester to make sure it's not live, or simply just leave it up to the sparky to resolve.

Cheers

Gotcha, that's good info, thanks I'll be sure to pass it on.  I certainly am being super careful around the live wires and I won't be attempting to change anything myself as I've no idea what I'm doing

I'll be there in an hour or so and I'll grab a snap of the more simply wired dimmer to see if anything obvious stands out.  Thanks again!

[simonk83]

Didn't get a chance last night as I had to take a cat to the vet, hopefully on the weekend.

[Sammy2]

Electrical is quite easy to do. I've had to redo the mess electricians have left behind a few times. Get a live wire tester for sure. I usually work hot but not always, depending on my confidence level of what's in front of me.

[RichardTSchaefer]

TURN THE FUSES OFF FIRST!!!!!!
DOWN'T EVEN TAKE A CHANCE!

If you want to take a chance make sure you use the 1 hand rule ... you must be able to do the work with 1 hand and the other should be in your pocket. If the current doesn't go through your heart ... you stand a chance!

I lost a friend in what looked like a simple residential job with live wires.
And he worked every day in residential all the way up to 3 phase 440V 200 amp circuits.
NEVER even let a NOOB think it might be OK to work on live circuits.

The Very first thing I do AFTER I turn off the fuses is to short ALL the wires together to make sure the fuse is off ... And I do that with rubber handled pliers.
 

[simonk83]

TURN THE FUSES OFF FIRST!!!!!!
DOWN'T EVEN TAKE A CHANCE!

Totally agree.  No worries there, I'm not crazy enough (or lucky enough) to attempt playing with live wires.  I'd be seriously nervous about trying it with all the circuits off as well.

[ninkasi]

TURN THE FUSES OFF FIRST!!!!!!
DOWN'T EVEN TAKE A CHANCE!

If you want to take a chance make sure you use the 1 hand rule ... you must be able to do the work with 1 hand and the other should be in your pocket. If the current doesn't go through your heart ... you stand a chance!

I lost a friend in what looked like a simple residential job with live wires.
And he worked every day in residential all the way up to 3 phase 440V 200 amp circuits.
NEVER even let a NOOB think it might be OK to work on live circuits.

The Very first thing I do AFTER I turn off the fuses is to short ALL the wires together to make sure the fuse is off ... And I do that with rubber handled pliers.

Safety tip #2 - I always wave a power tester over everything before considering touching anything. In my (too many years) lifetime playing with things that can zap you, I've encountered bad wiring in old and new houses where even with the fuse off and lights no longer working, there has been power going to a switch from a different circuit. This can be due to electricians having brain fades, inexperienced and unsupervised apprentices, clueless home handymen, or faulty equipment (poorly designed appliances, rodents sharpening their teeth on cables, all sorts of things)

Safety tip #3 - Even after making sure there is no power going through the wires, I always handle them as if they are live.

Safety tip #4 - If you have no training, experience, and/or have the slightest concerns you should get a professional to do it. Even if you manage to do electrical work without killing yourself, you might do it in a way that could cause issues down the track (eg crimping a cable could cause it to heat up and even lead to a fire).

[simonk83]

Still haven't managed this yet as we've been getting our floorboards polished so I haven't been able to walk on them   Planning on going over tomorrow night to at the very least take some close up photos of the wiring.  Hopefully that's enough to get some help here and maybe with Aeon support.

[simonk83]

OK, photos:

This is the dual nano switch that I'm having issues with.   Even though it's a dual nano, I'm only utilising one OUT as it's only controlling one light switch, however there is another switch up the stairs that controls the same light (I think they refer to that as a 3-way system).

https://imgur.com/a/KmEpr

I've also sent a support ticket to Aeon with the same photos.    Any help appreciated (electrician hasn't had time to come back yet).

[kwieto]

Nice photos, but which cable is which?
I don't get the wiring, to be honest.
I.e. it seems that there is a bunch of Live cables going into the physical switch and one of them is connected as live to the aeon device. But do you really have couple of wires supplying live current? Usually there is only one cable supplying live current... are the others supplying another lights? then why they are connected to the switch?

Then you have black (neutral) going into the aeon device, but another one seems to be going into the physical switch? What is it for?
And there is another(the same?) black cable going somewhere out of the place where the bunch of live cables are connected to the physical switch? What is that?

There is Live current going out of the aeon device (to the lamp, I suppose?), but there is also another red (Live?) going from the physical switch somewhere else (where and why)?
And also the white one, what this is for?

How the second physical switch is wired? If you have two physical switches controlling one light the wiring probably should be a bit different than in case of one switch, and it might be important if you attach the z-wave device to the switch 1 or 2.

Can you draw a diagram presenting the connections and information what is on the other end of each cable?
Without information about from/to where each cable is going it will be impossible to say anything about your installation.

[simonk83]

Can you draw a diagram presenting the connections and information what is on the other end of each cable?
Without information about from/to where each cable is going it will be impossible to say anything about your installation.

Yeah I hear you, problem is I'm just not 100% sure    I might just need to get the electrician back and have him remove all the wires, then just wire it bare minimum to see if it works.  If it does, we can talk about all the other superfluous wires and what they're doing.

As this is a 3 way switch (another switch up the stairs controls the same light), I'm guessing maybe it's wires related to that?

[kwieto]

Maybe.
3-way switch? Then it has three states: ON, OFF, and...?
Usually "staircase" switches have two states, the wiring is like in the link: http://www.electricalonline4u.com/2015/10/3-staircase-wiring-diagrams.html