Author Topic: Help, really struggling to get a couple of in wall modules working  (Read 440 times)

Offline ninkasi

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Re: Help, really struggling to get a couple of in wall modules working
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2017, 06:30:07 pm »
OK, photos:

This is the dual nano switch that I'm having issues with.   Even though it's a dual nano, I'm only utilising one OUT as it's only controlling one light switch, however there is another switch up the stairs that controls the same light (I think they refer to that as a 3-way system).

https://imgur.com/a/KmEpr

I've also sent a support ticket to Aeon with the same photos.    Any help appreciated (electrician hasn't had time to come back yet).

Yep - again, way too many cables going into the physical switch. The switch you have looks like it is participating in the actual electrical circuit to the light when it should just be connected direct to the nano dimmer. As for 3 way switch, no problem - how to cable that is also shown in the diagrams (https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000176583-nano-dimmer-wiring-3-way-4-way-5-way-switch-methods-) and again that remote physical switch would just connect to the other physical switch & nano dimmer.
Home Automation veteran. Rolled own, then MisterHouse and X10, now Vera - mysensor arduino and ESP8266 network - zwave lights, locks, switches - milights - yeelights - google home(s) - Broadlink RM - raspberry pi(s) with various scripts for power and weather station - Logitech Harmony - Imperihome

Offline simonk83

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Re: Help, really struggling to get a couple of in wall modules working
« Reply #16 on: November 22, 2017, 06:48:54 pm »

Yep - again, way too many cables going into the physical switch. The switch you have looks like it is participating in the actual electrical circuit to the light when it should just be connected direct to the nano dimmer. As for 3 way switch, no problem - how to cable that is also shown in the diagrams (https://aeotec.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/6000176583-nano-dimmer-wiring-3-way-4-way-5-way-switch-methods-) and again that remote physical switch would just connect to the other physical switch & nano dimmer.

Alright, so just to confirm, basically the momentary switch should really just have two wires coming out of it.  One to COM and one to S1 (it's slightly different on the Dual Nano, but I assume it'd be one to OUT1 and one to S1).   Then it should really only be Live, Neutral and Load coming out of the Aeon module and into the "wall".  The rest shouldn't be involved?

With the Dual Nano it also has an IN (the dimmers don't have this), which is described as "Input for load power supply".  The manual (https://products.z-wavealliance.org/ProductManual/File?folder=&filename=Manuals/2151/Dual%20Nano%20Switch%20manual.pdf) seems to indicate that this is simply joined to the Live wire, hence the little loop from L to IN in my photos.   Does that look right?



Offline ninkasi

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Re: Help, really struggling to get a couple of in wall modules working
« Reply #17 on: November 22, 2017, 08:55:44 pm »
Ah. For some reason the fact you were having issues with a dual nano switch, not nano dimmer went straight over my head, so my apologies!

Looking at the wiring diagram in the manual the switches do need to be hooked into the power, so totally ignore what I said before as that was for the nano dimmer. With the nano switch it looks like you should have live going to the first switch, which would then go to the second switch which would then go to SW1 to control the light(s) on OUT1. And yes, IN is normally just joined to Live, unless you have a dual power (AC and DC) environment.

The important thing for the electrician to realise, is with neither nano device the external/wall physical switch is not part of the circuit. The nano switch is controlling the load, the physical switches are just a secondary way of letting the nano switch know it needs to turn on/off a load.
Home Automation veteran. Rolled own, then MisterHouse and X10, now Vera - mysensor arduino and ESP8266 network - zwave lights, locks, switches - milights - yeelights - google home(s) - Broadlink RM - raspberry pi(s) with various scripts for power and weather station - Logitech Harmony - Imperihome

Offline kwieto

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Re: Help, really struggling to get a couple of in wall modules working
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2017, 04:34:22 am »
Alright, so just to confirm, basically the momentary switch should really just have two wires coming out of it.  One to COM and one to S1 (it's slightly different on the Dual Nano, but I assume it'd be one to OUT1 and one to S1).   Then it should really only be Live, Neutral and Load coming out of the Aeon module and into the "wall".  The rest shouldn't be involved?

According to the Aeotec diagram, the nano switch (not dimmer) uses live current for steering input channels. So in general, Live current should be split in two: one Live cable should go to the L connection of your Aeon, the other Live cable should go to the switch; then, the next cable should go from the switch to the Aeon, delivering Live current to S1 input.
Of course you have to deliver Neutral Wire to the Aeon switch as well.

Then you have Live cable going out from OUT1 to the lamp, which is connected somewhere else to the Neutral wire.
See the attached diagram: Red lines are live wires, black are neutral.

With corridor switches you have mainly two options:
First is wiring second switch to the S2 output and define it to behave same way as S1 input (it can be configured in some of devices).
Second is making the setup in the way that you put the Z-wave device between the lamp and the switch from which current goes to the lamp. In this case both switches act as one combo and can be connected to the S1 input. The question is if you have another Live/Neutral wires to power the Aeon switch, which can be an issue.
The real possibilities for your installation can be defined after you have information which cable is for what, maybe for your setup it would be easier.

With the Dual Nano it also has an IN (the dimmers don't have this), which is described as "Input for load power supply".  The manual (https://products.z-wavealliance.org/ProductManual/File?folder=&filename=Manuals/2151/Dual%20Nano%20Switch%20manual.pdf) seems to indicate that this is simply joined to the Live wire, hence the little loop from L to IN in my photos.   Does that look right?

Yes.
It seems that your Aeon Switch has so called "dry" contact which mean that the circuit which steers output is separated from the one which supplies energy to power the device itself.
This mean that you can power Aeon switch with 110 (220?)V AC, and use it for steering DC (i.e. 12V, 24V) installation. In such case you should connect DC to the IN of your device.
If your lights are powered the same current as the Aeon switch, then you can bridge IN and L inputs (or you can attach another cable directly from Live current supply to the IN connection). You can see detailed graphs in the manual.

Offline simonk83

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Re: Help, really struggling to get a couple of in wall modules working
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2017, 04:54:39 am »

Second is making the setup in the way that you put the Z-wave device between the lamp and the switch from which current goes to the lamp. In this case both switches act as one combo and can be connected to the S1 input. The question is if you have another Live/Neutral wires to power the Aeon switch, which can be an issue.
The real possibilities for your installation can be defined after you have information which cable is for what, maybe for your setup it would be easier.


Great, thanks, that's very helpful.

So,  I believe the module is already between the lamp and the current (the electrician called it Active I think), so are you saying to literally grab a wire coming from the second switch and pop it in S1 alongside the other one?   Is there likely to be a wire running from the other switch down to the original switch (is that generally how these things are wired, modules aside)?

Offline kwieto

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Re: Help, really struggling to get a couple of in wall modules working
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2017, 06:14:00 am »
It really depends on your installation.
I forgot that you have double switch, so the S2 input is mainly responsible for the second output (some single switches have the ability to attach 2 or more inputs, then you can do the trick I was speaking about).

In general, corridor installation is done usually as on the Pic1 in the attachment.
You have 2 switches (I assume these are 3-way? I thought that 3-way is 3-position, it seems that it is what in my country is called "staircase switch")
You have 1 live going into the first switch, and the other going from second switch to the lamp. There are 2 wires between the switches, so you can open/close the circuit by switching any of them.

In this case the easiest way is to attach Aeon between the second switch and the lamp, as on the picture 2. The thing you have to consider is supplying Live and Neutral to the Aeon itself, as the only live you have is intermittent coming from a switch, and you don't have neutral at all. If you can't provide steady Live and Neutral, you can't power Aeon and whole setup won't work

Depending on how many wires are available between switches and how convenient is to include lamp into the puzzle you can get different possibilities, for example as on the picture 3, where there is third cable coming from second switch to the S1 input, and the lamp is connected from the place where 1st switch is.