Author Topic: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!  (Read 1564 times)

Offline jeubanks

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #30 on: June 23, 2018, 02:29:30 pm »
Thank you Eubanks.  I'm glad you brought up those things because I really do need to consider my wife's access.  I will definitely take those things to heart when I proceed.  Hopefully I can find a middle ground.  As I sit here right now, my vera edge went offline last night about two hours after leaving the house taking away all of the remote capabilities that I have come to depend upon.  Right now I have to decide how much more time I am willing to invest in vera or just make the break and cut my losses.  Again, I appreciate your input.

I don't represent or market any "product" in fact I work with all of them to do integrations.  With that there are options and choices and pro/con about each of them.  None of them are perfect and I can attest as I have all of them in my office for testing/integration.  Pick one that works for you now with the knowledge that it may not work for you later and have a backout plan for failure and a follow through plan for growth/expansion.


Offline kigmatzomat

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Re: Vera 6 years later.....
« Reply #31 on: June 23, 2018, 10:51:32 pm »
Thanks for the explanation on how you can do sequences with HS, it's not as straightforward as PLEG which is the only reason why I've hung onto Vera for this long.

Like I said, there is the easy trigger plug in that gives you a nice gui to create schedules and then you only have to add a condition "AND in schedule My schedule"

Quote
One further question is how can time schedules be carried over Midnight into the next day.
It's all straight forward with PLEG using a schedule and NOT (!).

The easy trigger way with a schedule set 9pm-3am
IF DeviceA has a value that just changed
And If DeviceA has a value equal to x
And if DeviceB has a value equal to y
AND in schedule My schedule
OR IF DeviceC has a value that just changed
And If DeviceC has a value equal to q
And if DeviceD has a value equal to r
AND in schedule My schedule
THEN (do stuff)

The no plug in way with a schedule set 9pm-3am
IF DeviceA has a value that just changed
And If DeviceA has a value equal to x
And if DeviceB has a value equal to y
And time after 9pm
OR IF DeviceC has a value that just changed
And If DeviceC has a value equal to q
And if DeviceD has a value equal to r
And time after 9pm
OR IF DeviceA has a value that just changed
And If DeviceA has a value equal to x
And if DeviceB has a value equal to y
And time before 3am
OR IF DeviceC has a value that just changed
And If DeviceC has a value equal to q
And if DeviceD has a value equal to r
And time before 3am
THEN (do stuff)


Easy trigger is worth it if you use a lot of schedules and it has some other nice scenarios.

Btw, none of this is scripting. It is all gui menu options with drop downs. At most you are typing a value used in a condition test (ie temp <95).

Online rafale77

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #32 on: June 24, 2018, 01:39:02 am »
@jeubanks,

I read your awesome post on all the different platforms you tested on the ST forum. Very insightful though you seem to have put the Home assistant stability ranking quite low while I have mine set all the way at the top (I maybe misled because I am not using Z-wave on my instance). I too have tested a few of them now and though maybe not as extensively as you have, I would rank the vera dead last and very far below all the others.

@undertoe's setup is quite awesome. I am just a bit concerned about the zwave device support. I may have some unsupported devices by openzwave which would prevent my migration.

I am very happy with openLuup as a master controller and plugin hubs with the addition of Home Assistant as an additional API bridge for integrations. The last part to replace the vera completely is the zwave/zigbee radio with the right amount of device support. Thinking through it, the ideal box would be a small board like a rPi with an external SSD storage and a zw to decrease SD card wear with the right interface (API).

Candidates:

Home Assistant/Openzwave: Hearing concerns about device support for some devices.
Zway/zwave.me: Very finicky to install if you don't have a rPi but has openLuup plugin. Also needs a license.
OpenHab: Really don't like the interface and I am unsure about the device support.
openLuup (96 devices, 129 scenes, 20 apps) controlling HomeAss + VeraPlus (133 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 200 devices, 20 scenes , 1 app) Bridged to Homekit and Alexa

Offline jeubanks

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #33 on: June 24, 2018, 10:22:34 am »
@jeubanks,

I read your awesome post on all the different platforms you tested on the ST forum. Very insightful though you seem to have put the Home assistant stability ranking quite low while I have mine set all the way at the top (I maybe misled because I am not using Z-wave on my instance). I too have tested a few of them now and though maybe not as extensively as you have, I would rank the vera dead last and very far below all the others.

@undertoe's setup is quite awesome. I am just a bit concerned about the zwave device support. I may have some unsupported devices by openzwave which would prevent my migration.

I am very happy with openLuup as a master controller and plugin hubs with the addition of Home Assistant as an additional API bridge for integrations. The last part to replace the vera completely is the zwave/zigbee radio with the right amount of device support. Thinking through it, the ideal box would be a small board like a rPi with an external SSD storage and a zw to decrease SD card wear with the right interface (API).

Candidates:

Home Assistant/Openzwave: Hearing concerns about device support for some devices.
Zway/zwave.me: Very finicky to install if you don't have a rPi but has openLuup plugin. Also needs a license.
OpenHab: Really don't like the interface and I am unsure about the device support.

Home Assistant:
I ranked the stability based upon the set of versions I had been running during the time I was testing.  Knowing full well it was not a stable production system, but an active project.  If you have plans to use Home Assistant as a production system you will have to take into account the active nature of the system and NOT do updates as they are released which means that your system will fall behind very quickly and as things change you may no longer be compatible in some areas and components which will lead to a lot of reconfiguration.  Two examples I can provide off the top of my head are with Automations and Device Entities.  I was running Home Assistant before Automations had the Web UI and so all of my Automations were hand scripted.  After the Web UI was introduced that introduced a new format for the Automations so I had to update my Automations.  Then there were other changes to support the Web UI which again broke my hand written Automations in order to make the Web UI work.  On and on as the Web UI "evolved" things stabilized etc as is normal in a development cycle.  Today Automations whether done through UI or by hand work fine.  The only issue I have is the order of the formating the Web UI uses is confusing and personally ugly.  Next is how Device Entities are handled.  That was a more recent update to Home Assistant.  If you had done any customization to your devices, or used a lot of "native" z-wave devices then your devices entity_id's were changed, modified and you had to do some reconfiguration to get things working again.  All of this is normal activity for a development project.  I didn't rank the "system" as unstable but in general because of it being active development you should not expect stability as you would expect with say Vera.

As for unsupported devices.  You can always do a multi-controller setup.  Use a z-wave stick and HA z-wave configuration for everything you can and then use the Vera component for devices that are not yet supported in the native stack.

Today my primary setup is HomeSeer, but I still use Vera for Zigbee devices and I have a plugin that bridges the Vera devices to HomeSeer to utilize the HomeSeer events system.  The HomeSeer "design" is a plugin based architecture to be able to support well... anything really.  This works well when there's just a lot of "controllers" out there for different purposes.  At some point when deCONZ is more mature and supports all of my ZigBee devices I may move them to deCONZ and remove Vera from the mix or I might not.  Vera may do a 180 and fix their problems and once again be a great controller. 

Offline jswim788

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #34 on: June 24, 2018, 04:13:13 pm »
OpenHab: Really don't like the interface and I am unsure about the device support.
Z-wave support for openHAB is listed here: https://www.cd-jackson.com/index.php/zwave/zwave-device-database/zwave-device-list/devices

The UI is what it is although keep in mind there are 3 more or less independent UI's: the PaperUI for configuration, the BasicUI for the usual interface, and the HABPanel for kiosk style interfaces.  BasicUI and HABPanel allow for customization.  I would not call the UI's the strong point of openHAB though.

Offline Mike Yeager

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #35 on: June 24, 2018, 05:44:42 pm »
What is considered to be the go to z-wave USB stick? I'm running a Vera Plus at the moment but that will eventually change as I migrate towards Home Assistant...

Offline jeubanks

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #36 on: June 24, 2018, 06:47:20 pm »
What is considered to be the go to z-wave USB stick? I'm running a Vera Plus at the moment but that will eventually change as I migrate towards Home Assistant...

Well... there's not a ton of choices.

HUSBZ-1 (dual z-wave zigbee) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat
HomeSeer USB Stick.  Z-wave only.  Also works with all of the above
Aeotec USB Stick.  I have not tested, a lot use this one and have good luck.

Offline cybrmage

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #37 on: June 24, 2018, 07:12:23 pm »
HUSBZ-1 (dual z-wave zigbee) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat

Let me fix that for you...

HUSBZ-1 (z-wave only - discontinued but still available) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat
HUSBZB-1 (dual z-wave zigbee) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat

Offline jswim788

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #38 on: June 24, 2018, 07:16:03 pm »
HUSBZB-1 (dual z-wave zigbee) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat
That one also appears to be discontinued (https://nortekcontrol.com/products/2gig/husbzb-1-gocontrol-quickstick-combo/) yet still available on Amazon.

Offline zedrally

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #39 on: June 24, 2018, 07:27:06 pm »
Shameless plug...

In AUS/NZ or any 921.4mHz system you can use a Black Cat UZB
  https://www.blackcatcontrolsystems.com.au/BlackCat-UZB-Controller,

uses the Sigma SDK and I haven't found a device that it doesn't communicate with.
« Last Edit: June 24, 2018, 08:02:06 pm by zedrally »
Living in the Land of Oz, give me a vegemite sandwich. Home Seer, Vera Lite & Edge, Popp, Black Cat Smart Hub & Vera G, Black Cat Lite 1 & 2's a Black Cat Dimmer or 2, Fantem Tec and then some  Black Cat Cat's Eye PIR's & Door-Window Sensors, RFXComm, Broadlink RMPro & Mini plus a Z-UNO or 2.

Online rafale77

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #40 on: June 24, 2018, 07:53:46 pm »
There is also the zwave.me UZB and Razberry. The UZB and the Homeseer seem to be identical firmware-wise.
openLuup (96 devices, 129 scenes, 20 apps) controlling HomeAss + VeraPlus (133 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 200 devices, 20 scenes , 1 app) Bridged to Homekit and Alexa

Offline jeubanks

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #41 on: June 24, 2018, 08:39:57 pm »
HUSBZ-1 (dual z-wave zigbee) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat

Let me fix that for you...

HUSBZ-1 (z-wave only - discontinued but still available) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat
HUSBZB-1 (dual z-wave zigbee) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat

Thanks.  I was missing a B ;)

Offline cybrmage

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #42 on: June 24, 2018, 11:21:32 pm »
HUSBZB-1 (dual z-wave zigbee) Works with OpenHab2, Home Assistant, HomeSeer, Hubitat
That one also appears to be discontinued (https://nortekcontrol.com/products/2gig/husbzb-1-gocontrol-quickstick-combo/) yet still available on Amazon.

Hmmm....

Doing a little more digging.... On the Nortek site, they are both listed as discontinued...

BUT... On they are both now listed on the GoControl site... here and here.

If they were discontinued, that would be disastrous for the hubitat elevation (Android TV Box based home controller that closesly mimics and is partially compatible with smartthings)... It uses the HUSBZB-1...

Offline ninkasi

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #43 on: Today at 07:32:30 am »
Interesting..... had looked at OpenHAB some time ago but support for some things like Broadlink just aren't there and a lot of plugins needed some serious hacking to get to work. HA was better but still in its infancy - now you made me look again and HA pretty much seems to have everything. Have been impressed in many ways with Vera, but it is being left behind I'm afraid with IFTTT support being in perennial beta, no support at all for google home (other than using the third party Concierge app on a second device), and a number of apparently angry developers leaving in a huff.

Have ordered another 'pi and will test HA on it to see if it's time I should also jump. Hopefully Google Assistant (https://www.home-assistant.io/blog/2018/04/24/launch-google-assistant-support/) will get out of beta soon....  If I do jump, then it seems I'll have to also say goodbye to "Imperihome" as that's not supported at the moment (but is with OpenHAB via the Standard System API, sigh).

Of course what I could do is strip out most things from Vera and leave it to just front end the Zwave lights and locks, and use HA to do everything else. Hmmm. :-)
Home Automation veteran. Rolled own, then MisterHouse and X10, now Vera - mysensor arduino and ESP8266 network - zwave lights, locks, switches - milights - yeelights - google home(s) - Broadlink RM - raspberry pi(s) with various scripts for power and weather station - Logitech Harmony - Imperihome

Offline cmille34

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Re: Vera 6 years later..... Home Assistant!
« Reply #44 on: Today at 07:49:02 am »
+1 as another person loving Home Assistant so far.  I started with a Pi3 since I had a few laying around but I soon switched over to an old laptop from work and loaded Ubuntu and Docker on it. Love the Docker approach to running Home Assistant, Node-Red, MySQL, HA Bridge, etc.  For those on the fence - give it a shot! Like anything there is a learning curve but you can have HA and Vera up and running side by side, just leave the ZWave devices on the Vera and tinker away on HA.  The ability to buy cheapie Xiaomi sensors and control them in Home Assistant has made it worth my time many times over.