Author Topic: schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES  (Read 549 times)

Offline Moxified

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schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES
« on: November 25, 2017, 08:44:40 am »
I know there are about a million threads about beaming and these locks but I read through a ton and didn't find a definitive answer to my questions.

I just put in a schlage centry touch screen zwave deadbolt https://products.z-wavealliance.org/products/1052 on a new detached tractor garage I built.  It included and can be locked and unlocked via vera reliably.  It doesn't seem to report back when manually unlocked.  A forced poll will get the new state.  I see in other threads this is usually related to timeout of the signal from the lock.  The lock is probably a good 60' away from the vera.  I have lots of devices between.

On the vera I notice that the lock has no neighbors.  Is this normal for the locks?  I can't imagine it is talking over that 60'.  There are 2 beaming capable switches (a linear WS15Z-1 and WD500Z-1) in my attached garage about 20' away for example.  Those units list about 10 neighbors but not the vera as a neighbor so they aren't even talking directly to the vera.  I did verify that they are both talking to at least one node that has direct communication with the vera AND is beaming capable so there is a solid path of beaming capable devices back to the vera.  Most (I think all) of my light switches support beaming but none of my devices appear to support AES.  I have a decent collection of intermatic junk outlets that don't support beaming to dirty up the mesh though.

I ordered an aeotec nano switch to replace a failed intermatic outlet that is halfway between the lock and the aforementioned attached garage lights.  The intermatic's don't like the cold.

So, my question(s):

Is something wrong if the lock lists no neighbors?
Does the lock require devices that support beaming AND AES?
The vera set it up to never poll the device.  I know this is a battery savings thing... should we leave it at never poll.

Offline Moxified

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Re: schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES
« Reply #1 on: December 01, 2017, 04:50:43 pm »
So nobody has anything?

I since decided to upgrade to a vera edge for its support of z-wave plus.  I excluded all devices and included them all to the edge.  Everything (else) works as expected.  I also received my nano switch which supports aes and beaming and placed it halfway between the vera and lock.  The nano's neighbors includes just about every device including the outlet and light switch on either side of said lock and the vera itself but the lock does not show.  The lock still has no neighbors.  I can control the lock from the vera if after a marginal delay.

What gives?

Offline Jamr

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Re: schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES
« Reply #2 on: December 01, 2017, 06:45:45 pm »
Just a guess but maybe the encryption used by the lock keeps it from having neighbors??

Offline Moxified

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Re: schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES
« Reply #3 on: December 01, 2017, 06:49:26 pm »
I'm not an expert for sure on this topic but I have read so much lately and I remember reading that the zwave protocol is designed so that neighbors don't have to understand the encrypted message, they simply know to pass it along.  I found an article on smarthings forum I think it was with a similar if not identical schlage lock and they were posting configs that showed neighbors listed.

Anybody with a like schlage deadbolt willing to check if they show neighbors?  At the very least shouldn't it have "1" as a neighbor?

I'm going to go after support soon on this.  I don't want to keep buying hardware to through at the problem.

Offline willf650

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Re: schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES
« Reply #4 on: December 24, 2017, 08:40:53 am »
I know this is a bit late but I looked and my schlage lock has neighbors.  Much like yours I can control it but never seem to get notifications of manual unlocks.  I  have the exact same set up as you.  The lock is on a detached garage that is only a few feet from the main house.

Offline Moxified

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Re: schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES
« Reply #5 on: December 24, 2017, 08:51:35 am »
I'm still chasing this to a certain extent.  I spoke with vera support and they claim that having no neighbors is accurate for this specific device's behavior.  I added a couple of additional devices in the area including a 4 in 1 sensor which is battery and it shows neighbors but none of them are the vera itself so I know this lock is talking to neighbors and not the vera directly.

It seems to work pretty good when controlled from the vera but doesn't report unlocking specifically.  It reports locking pretty much every time weather done by the keypad or the physical knob.

I did some further testing where I excluded it and then included it with the vera a few feet away.  I then proceeded to test it with the vera sitting right there next to it.  It worked exactly as previously.  I did notice something somewhat new in this testing and that is that I think that the lock itself is having a hard time knowing if the bolt is fully thrown or not especially when operated via keypad.

To explain this... I would unlock with keypad and it wouldn't report unlocked.  If you then take the manual knob and turn it towards unlocked ever so slightly and then back to unlocked with a firm arrival, it would immediately report unlocked.

My next step is to talk to schlage support.  I tried calling but was on hold for over 30 minutes and hung up.  I'll try again next week.

Offline tomtcom

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Re: schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES
« Reply #6 on: December 24, 2017, 09:02:10 am »
I'm still chasing this to a certain extent.  I spoke with vera support and they claim that having no neighbors is accurate for this specific device's behavior.  I added a couple of additional devices in the area including a 4 in 1 sensor which is battery and it shows neighbors but none of them are the vera itself so I know this lock is talking to neighbors and not the vera directly.

It seems to work pretty good when controlled from the vera but doesn't report unlocking specifically.  It reports locking pretty much every time weather done by the keypad or the physical knob.

I did some further testing where I excluded it and then included it with the vera a few feet away.  I then proceeded to test it with the vera sitting right there next to it.  It worked exactly as previously.  I did notice something somewhat new in this testing and that is that I think that the lock itself is having a hard time knowing if the bolt is fully thrown or not especially when operated via keypad.

To explain this... I would unlock with keypad and it wouldn't report unlocked.  If you then take the manual knob and turn it towards unlocked ever so slightly and then back to unlocked with a firm arrival, it would immediately report unlocked.

My next step is to talk to schlage support.  I tried calling but was on hold for over 30 minutes and hung up.  I'll try again next week.

Have you tried looking at the manual to see if there are any adjustments that can be made to the internal parts for the bolt and how far the bolt extends out?

Maybe there's extra play in there that shouldn't be and that is interfering with certain things. I know the Kwikset 910 (much older lock) can have some adjustments made to it.

I'm not a fan of taking it apart but some small gap may cause the problem.

I think it's not common to not have neighbors. Vera support should point you to some Schlage note that specifies this is the case otherwise I'm not believing that statement.

Has any of your logging said anything?

I don't think this will work but have you added any nodes into the AutoRoute variable manually? It might not work but I would try and check logs to see what it says. Some variables like AutoRoute and Neighbors seem misleading at times like they might do the same thing so see what this variable has.

Offline Moxified

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Re: schlage lock beaming, neighbors and AES
« Reply #7 on: December 24, 2017, 10:18:27 am »
I'm pretty sure the lock auto calibrates at first boot up.  I don't see any mention of adjustments.

I'll have to look into logging.  I never have had much luck with vera logging but I might be looking in the wrong place.  I spend little time troubleshooting vera as I only use it for zwave and normally it is bulletproof for that.  I'll try to read up on vera logging and see what I can find.

At this point I have added and removed this lock probably twice on my vera lite and 2 or 3 times on the new edge... it still only ever has no neighbors so at this point, I lean towards believing Vera support.  He said he looked it up in their database and confirmed this was normal activity for this lock with respect to neighbors.