We have moved at community.getvera.com

Author Topic: Mios Marketplace & Developers  (Read 15539 times)

Offline Henk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #15 on: May 10, 2011, 04:21:58 am »
@guessed & @Ap15e

I gave your posts a quick glance with drowsy eyes last night (looong day at work) and i see similarities, focal points and options.

Starting with the list mcvflorin provided, this could really be a good starting point as for available plugins
Can we publish it in the table form as presented by Ap15e in his wiki? (im not a html guru, so im merely exchangings options here to try and find common ground and some momentum here  ::)

I looked at Ap15e's wiki proposal as wel as http://code.mios.com/ and i must agree with @guessed that it seems to result in duplication of info, thus possibly confusing users. I would suggest we agree on one location.

Following that lead i must say i see pro's and cons to both your approaches. The pro's in the case of http://code.mios.com/ are heavy though, since this provides a readily available location with not only the code but also screenshots, evoluation and backlink into the forums.

As @guessed proposed in
Quote
A Sticky, read-only, FAQ post at the top of this Board can point to that page as the single "source of truth" for the existing Plugins.  Over time, that post can be extended to include the other FAQ items that routinely come up... either as direct content, or more likely as pointers to the SoT Posting on the matter.

If we could do the same in moderating the forums (crossreferencing with a hyperlink to the appropriate page on http://code.mios.com/) that would be an improvement.
To make things more consistent that would mean though that the layout of the forums  as well as the code page (categories & sections) would have to be slowly migrated towards a similar layout on both ends (look and feel for users stays the same and feels "like home" .

As @guessed stated, the code page only provides a "degree of consistency"  at the moment and in its current layout could be improved using the tables proposed by @Ap15e on his wiki. That could maybe provide a quick overview from where a link can be clicked to the current applicaple subcode page that is available now. Thus preserving whats there, just presenting it slightly different.

I have no idea if this is feasible and if so how labour intensive it would be, but personally i think its worthwile considering it.

Last but not least, i will PM @mcvovidiu to get acces to the code page and see what else in can contribute there in close coordination with you guys.

@ Guessedl;
Quote
code.mios.com allowed the community to update the DSC Alarm code when that engineer left.  Had that been a ZIP Attachment to a Forum thread, I would not have touched it with a TFP.   It allowed folks, like @strangely and others, to contribute a ton to it's overall evolution...

What is TFP? and why would you not touch is as its simply a warpper for the xml files that contain the code.
I take it from this quote you prefer to publish all files seperately? If so, whats the advantage?

Quote
In the current state, I'd use the [pre-existing] Luup Projects wiki page as the jumping point.  It already points to a number of the original plugins, categorized, and simply needs to be extended to include the newer ones that only exist in the Forums.  I believe the documentation for those plugins, their dependancies (etc) should be put within their respective documentation/wiki/forum pages.

Would this mean that the code page and the wiki LUUP projects page would co-exist? or is it possible to bring the two together like you did in sectioning the forum "LUUP & Development"  where Plugins & plugin development are under the same section as "scene scripting"  and other LUUP projects.

Hope to get feedback and see what we can actually start to DO (in a controlled way)

Henk

« Last Edit: May 10, 2011, 04:29:24 am by Henk »
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |

Offline Ap15e

  • Beta Testers
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1998
  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #16 on: May 10, 2011, 04:58:49 am »
We do need a quick-reference to all Luup plugins and all Luup code fragments. Very useful plugins and code fragments are scattered all over the forum and are not listed at http://code.mios.com and therefore not easily accessible.




Offline huogas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 301
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #17 on: May 10, 2011, 05:09:16 am »
Quote
@ Guessedl;
Quote
code.mios.com allowed the community to update the DSC Alarm code when that engineer left.  Had that been a ZIP Attachment to a Forum thread, I would not have touched it with a TFP.   It allowed folks, like @strangely and others, to contribute a ton to it's overall evolution...

What is TFP? and why would you not touch is as its simply a warpper for the xml files that contain the code.
I take it from this quote you prefer to publish all files seperately? If so, whats the advantage?
Attaching a zip file to a post make the content exclusive to the owner of the post and in a way give him full control on the evolution.
The other way makes the code available to everyone who wants to commit changes to it. The changes are under the community control.
TFP is Ten Foot Pole...Guessed would be concerned about opening a "surprise box" (Zip file) in it's environment (probably not from Ap15e, but that's the general idea)

That's about it...
Vera2 UI4(1.1.1245/3.2), Kwikset x1, HM-DW001 x1, ZRP100 x1, HA-04WD x1, ZDP100 x6, HSM100 x2, VRI06-1LX x8, ZW5301 x1, HM-FS001 x2, ZRW103W x1, GE 45606 x2, HA05C x1, TED5000 x1

Offline Henk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #18 on: May 10, 2011, 07:45:41 am »
@hugoas

Thanks for the clarification.
If its a security related issue, fine in that case it might be too complicated to add md5 hashes or whatever to determine a file hasnt been tampered with.

So to keep it open its an option for me to provide the code (as far as xml is to be called open).  Imho every file is a container that has its own security issues.
For me the zip container was an option to keep all related files of a build/verzion neatly together and as long as they arent password protected they are not exclusive to me.

Glad i asked about TFP, haha might have mistaken it for a typo where maybe FTP was intendend. Wasnt familiar with the expression.  ;D

In any case providing the code in a standard formatted download (xml or text based, or in whatever form we pick) on a "controlled"  board will improve a lot already since downloads are now sometimes hosted bij filohost services, some bij users themselves (f.i from Google Docs) as posts in many forms in threads etc etc
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |

Offline Ap15e

  • Beta Testers
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1998
  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #19 on: May 10, 2011, 07:46:50 am »
While hacking the content of http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Luup_plugins_and_Luup_code I used my spare CPU cycles to think about what is really needed. Here are my results:


Offline JOD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #20 on: May 10, 2011, 02:52:59 pm »
My intention with the OP was to make it easy for all Vera users to have access to these great plugins via the Mios Marketplace. Not all users access this forum and not all that do use this forum are comfortable pulling the pieces together to make a plugin functional.
 
Plan B.
Since the MM is a ways off and no consensus that all the plugins can or should be stored on code.mios.com.
Is it possible to have a section here on the forum where finished work can be placed, locked from reply posts, maybe under the moderators control?
Each posted plugin could then have the various developers’ links to wherever their work may be hosted?
 
JOD.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Offline Ap15e

  • Beta Testers
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1998
  • Karma: +12/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #21 on: May 10, 2011, 04:47:08 pm »
A one click installation of plugins should be the ultimate goal. But: Is Vera ready for a one-click installation of plugins?
Are the plugins ready for a one-click installation?

IMHO, there are too many shortcomings for a one click installation:
Let's take a look at MCV's 'Squeezebox Control' beta plugin. Yes, installation was easy via Marketplace (if the user is using a newer firmware, the user gets redirected to https://marketplace.mios.com/beta-plugins.php: happy searching ...) - but where is the documentation on how to configure and how to use the plugin?

Another example:
If a user would install DAD via a one click installation without reading and understanding the instructions and limitations, the user soon would complain about several bugs in DAD - but chances are, that the 'bugs' are caused by bugs/missing features in MiOS (cf. http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=6052.0, http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=5466.msg31383#msg31383).

Quote
Is it possible to have a section here on the forum where finished work can be placed, locked from reply posts, maybe under the moderators control?

Wouldn't the discussion about bugs and new features be hindered by declaring something as 'finished work' and by locking threads?

Offline huogas

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 301
  • Karma: +0/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #22 on: May 10, 2011, 07:53:32 pm »
@Ap15e

Could you remind me what would be the "problem" if Mios Marketplace was the unique place to offer the plugins ?
Vera2 UI4(1.1.1245/3.2), Kwikset x1, HM-DW001 x1, ZRP100 x1, HA-04WD x1, ZDP100 x6, HSM100 x2, VRI06-1LX x8, ZW5301 x1, HM-FS001 x2, ZRW103W x1, GE 45606 x2, HA05C x1, TED5000 x1

Offline JOD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #23 on: May 10, 2011, 08:02:07 pm »
A one click installation of plugins should be the ultimate goal. But: Is Vera ready for a one-click installation of plugins?
Are the plugins ready for a one-click installation?
The answer is probably NO to both, but then everything hinges on MCV and not Vera per se...
Quote
IMHO, there are too many shortcomings for a one click installation:
That may be, but my suggestion of an organized area on the forum for your work to be downloaded is a substitute.
Is it possible to have a section here on the forum where finished work can be placed, locked from reply posts, maybe under the moderators control?
Quote
Wouldn't the discussion about bugs and new features be hindered by declaring something as 'finished work' and by locking threads?
Ok, it may not be the correct terminology. Finished as a revision #. 'Semantics' Finished work, published work, wrapped work, zipped work, release, revision, build, whatever you want to call it, you as the developer would have locked the thread just as MCV does when they make their official announcements. When they declare a FW build as an "Official Release" there are no guarantees to it being bug free and plenty of threads pop up discussing the shortcomings.   
My point was. Not to clutter the "Download area" with a multitude of response posts.

There are still the ongoing discussion areas of the plugins, DAD, ADD etc, where something get's reported, you make a change and post an update revision as you normally do only now the only difference is everything is in a certain area of the forum for downloading and it's easy to find, uncluttered, no responses to the locked post. It can be labeled whatever you all decide, "Download area" as an example......

JOD.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Offline Henk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #24 on: May 14, 2011, 09:20:51 am »
@JOD,

So what do you advise we use then? Dealing with what is available to us now on the wiki and code page?
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |

Offline JOD

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1973
  • Karma: +4/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #25 on: May 15, 2011, 02:19:46 pm »
My suggestion would be to separate Plugins & Plugin Development into two separate tabs/areas.
 
Plugin Development (for the ongoing development & discussions)
&
Plugins (for locked posts from the developers to their download links)

JOD.
I'm sorry, my responses are limited. You must ask the right questions.

Offline Henk

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 820
  • Karma: +3/-0
Re: Mios Marketplace & Developers
« Reply #26 on: May 15, 2011, 02:21:43 pm »
My suggestion would be to separate Plugins & Plugin Development into two separate tabs/areas.
 
Plugin Development (for the ongoing development & discussions)
&
Plugins (for locked posts from the developers to their download links)

JOD.

@guessed, would this be achievable?
For already available plugins maybe even post a link there to the code page?
That would create the crossreference i mentioned earlier, form the code page to the forum, and back!
| Vera2 @ UI4 1.1.1350 / 3.20 | Vera Lite @ UI5 | Vera 3 @ UI5 | 2x Merten  504519 | 1x Duewi  064374 | 1x Everspring SM103 doorbell mod |1 Y-cam IP cam | various LUUP plugins |