Author Topic: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag  (Read 2331 times)

Offline snaufal

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #15 on: April 28, 2018, 09:56:32 am »
FGS223 has been around for quite a while. Vera was very late in supporting them. We have just installed about 22 FGS-223 devices devices and the response is unacceptable. Is there a workaround for this?

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #16 on: April 28, 2018, 07:23:33 pm »
I have 19 of the Fibaro Dual Switch 2 FGS-223 and 5 of the Fibaro Dimmer 2 FGB-212.

My entire family is totally sick to death of the immense lag, the IMMENSE problems it causes with scenes, and sometimes lights even turning back off after turning on or even lights turning back on a while after being turned off.

I honestly don't know how much longer I can hold out defecting to the HC2 - it'll cost me a bit but this whole situation is a huge kick in the nuts - 1) This situation shouldn't even be possible given the whole claim that Z-Wave's advantage is anything works with anything, 2) If Vera's claim that they've found and fixed the problem is true, yet want to deliberately wait 12 months to release it, they could at least offer to remote in and manually patch those of us with a crippled setup.

Offline Almighty

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #17 on: May 02, 2018, 02:55:54 am »
Same here, I replaced one of my Gen1 double switches with FGS-223, to get the double/triple click events, but the delays with scenes are really not acceptable.  :-\
Does anyone have experience with these switches in HomeSeer?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2018, 06:28:13 am by Almighty »

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #18 on: May 02, 2018, 05:47:17 am »
Well I've come home to an absolute mouthful tonight.

When my wife came home in the afternoon the scene that controls turning power back on to all sorts of appliances, opening the blinds, turning the brightness up on lights, etc COMPLETELY failed.  She was basically stuffed and is LIVID with me.

She's fed up with turning on a light and it turning back off again a short while later because Vera was too confused about what the hell it was doing with recognising whether it was on or not.

She's fed up with the dimming going friggen spastic because our Siri integration doesn't understand why the hell Vera doesn't respond to the dimming command within, you know, an eternity for a computer like 10 or so seconds...

She's fed up with walking down a corridor and the friggen lights coming up 10 seconds after she has already walked all the way down it and gone into another room.

She's sick of scenes that half execute, or today didn't even execute, because Vera gets all confused about whether it has or hasn't turned a light on or off or changed a dim level.

She's sick of the whole bloody thing for one bloody reason - Vera sitting there all confused about Fibaro Double Switch and Fibaro Dimmer command executions and therefore stuffing everything up.

So naturally I'm very pissed off right now............................

And Almighty yes, ironically, a mate of mine went HomeSeer and has like me gone all out with Fibaro devices.  He doesn't have a single complaint.

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #19 on: May 02, 2018, 08:22:35 am »
I've sent a reply to my ticket asking if there's any chance I can perhaps get a beta copy of the revised driver for the Fibaro Dual Switch 2 and Fibaro Dimmer 2 - I'm pretty desperate at this stage as Vera is tearing my setup into the ground , my alternative will be to just splash out on the HC2 as that will slot straight into everything I have already bought (including Siri integration).

Offline therealdb

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #20 on: May 02, 2018, 08:44:51 am »
I doubt it's technically possible, because their drivers are in fact tightly coupled with the firmware.
I feel your pain.
Vera, dozen of ZWave devices, Raspberry PI running my own integrations, 3 Nest, Harmony Hub, OpenSprinkler, Personal Weather Station and a lot of code

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #21 on: May 02, 2018, 07:34:23 pm »
I have good news, good news, and bad news.

The good news is Vera have got back to me and confirmed they are still confident they have identified the cause of this problem.

The other good news is they say they will gladly share a beta release with me of the "patch".

The bad news... brace yourselves... they haven't even started work on the fix.

Have to be honest and say my use of Vera is likely to come to an end when I consider this and how utterly fed up my wife was last night.

Offline dotneft

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #22 on: May 03, 2018, 03:49:39 pm »
I also consider to finish Vera usage, I installed the system for my mom. She lives in different country, so I tried to simplify her life, but currently I have different situation.

PS: Please share the link of beta version when you will have it :-)

Offline Sorin

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #23 on: May 04, 2018, 06:47:09 am »
Guys, these devices are "lagging" with Vera because Vera's method of inclusion for GEN5 devices is only SECURE mode, per z-wave specs. Although gen5, apparently these devices are not implemented to work very well with secure mode.

Vera does not have the capability of including devices in "unsecured"  mode and the team is working with the Z-Wave chip manufacturer on allowing this feature as part of the certification.
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 06:51:59 am by Sorin »
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Offline dotneft

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #24 on: May 04, 2018, 07:22:19 am »
Vera does not have the capability of including devices in "unsecured"  mode and the team is working with the Z-Wave chip manufacturer on allowing this feature as part of the certification.

Thank you for explanation! So I suppose it is not "fast" solution. It is not a week, or couple of weeks. Right?

PS: I tried to downgrade the firmware where FGS-223 was not included officially, and it works pretty fast :-)
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 07:23:53 am by dotneft »

Offline therealdb

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #25 on: May 04, 2018, 07:27:37 am »
AFAIK other controllers don't have this problem.
Sorin, have you reported it to Fibaro for cross checking?
« Last Edit: May 04, 2018, 08:20:48 am by therealdb »
Vera, dozen of ZWave devices, Raspberry PI running my own integrations, 3 Nest, Harmony Hub, OpenSprinkler, Personal Weather Station and a lot of code

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #26 on: May 04, 2018, 08:46:01 am »
Okay let's entertain the thought for a minute that Vera has perfectly written code (bahahahaha, okay let's really entertain it) and the Fibaro is indeed the one that is faulty when in secure mode (even though it works with other controllers?).

Also, let's acknowledge it is a requirement for Z-Wave Plus certification that controllers MUST force secure mode - only allowing non-secure if that's all the device is transmitting?  Although again, it seems other controllers quite happily allow you to choose - but perhaps they are not certified?

Thankfully many DEVICES allow you to control whether they do a secure or non-secure inclusion.  Although I totally rather it all be encrypted and have chosen the secure inclusion for all my devices that have two methods of inclusion.

There is still a VERY quick and VERY easy solution here.  Add an unofficial setting that sets Vera to do non-secure inclusions.  By default it is secure, NOTHING in the GUI, and thus out of the box Vera remains totally compliant as nothing has changed.  But we set a special setting, say via a LUA command, and Vera now UNOFFICIALLY does non-secure inclusions.  Again Vera remains a FULLY compliant devices and still retains certification, but give us a means to UNOFFICIALLY engage this mode.

The precedent for this is already set.  The Z-UNO by default works by the standards and is a compliant and certified device - but the end-user is able to very easily reconfigure it to work in very, very, very non-compliant ways.  Many other products and software across many industries also have hidden settings to engage unofficial modes of operation.

I would much rather have these things remain secure and encrypted, so Vera and Fibaro working together to fix the problem would to me be a much better solution.  But I know this isn't going to happen - Z'Wave's "everything works with everything, no exceptions" is a load of crap, OTA firmware updates has actually been a crippling disaster so we won't be getting a fix from Fibaro, the vendors are not the big happy family Z-Wave tries to claim so Vera ain't going to work with Fibaro to identify the problems and then make Vera compensate for them, so Vera providing a quick and easy way to unofficially do non-secure inclusion is the best option here it would seem is the only solution...

On the other hand, working with the Z-Wave chip guys to "officially" provide this will mean a year or more... assuming it even happens...

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2018, 08:55:32 am »
Sorry quick question... didn't investigation done by others reveal the Vera was accidentally expecting a non-encrypted response back from the Fibaro, when in fact it sends an encrypted one due to secure mode?  Was this wrong?

Also, I'm curious why the Fibaro Single Switch 2 works perfectly... but the Fibaro Dimmer 2 and Fibaro Dual Switch 2 do not.  Must be something Fibaro (or Vera) are doing differently between those three devices.

Offline gugge

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2018, 03:32:18 pm »
I have a vera secure at home, running fw 1.7.3535. I have a couple of FGS-223 (Double Switch 2) and some Dimmer 2:s, and they are all running fine.

I bought another vera secure to have at office, and once connected the first thing i did was to upgrade it to fw 1.7.3799 (7.0.26) . But when trying to add the some FGS-223:s and Dimmer 2's  things started to fail.

No variables can be sent to the devices to change the switch type (to momentary switch). The controller goes up and down, and the two FGS-223 I managed to connect reports that they are connected/disconnected with 2-3 hours interval. Pressing the physical switch connected to the devices causes a lag on roughly 8-10 seconds as described by others before anything happens.

When looking into the z-wave settings there is a big difference. The old firmware runs Z-wave version 4.5 L:1 while the new is 6.1 L:1. The old controller has "role" set to "Suc SIS: YES PRI: YES" while the new is "Master SIS: NO PRI: YES".

Both of my setups are only using Z-wave plus devices so I guess (hope) that they are both running in a secured mode, so in my case i doubt it is the secure stuff that is the problem. Does anyone know what the role is, and if that could be what is causing the vera to behave like this? And more important, how do I change it?


Offline Tillsy

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Re: Fibaro Double Switch (FGS-223) Lag
« Reply #29 on: May 06, 2018, 08:32:57 pm »
Public service warning.

I have seen many discussions where people have pondered about a supposed fall-back to non-secure inclusion if out of the 1-2m range. because it's too far for the secure signal to make the distance.

As I have not found any confirmation regarding this, I decided to be the guinea pig.  First, to stop the potential for Network Wide Inclusion, I cut power to every single Z-Wave device throughout my home.  Next, I wired up a long lead to a Fibaro Dual Switch 2.  Finally, I took that into the backyard - so not only a long distance but two walls between the Vera and device.

The inclusion itself still occurs, as the core Z-Wave communications range is just fine, BUT it's still a secure inclusion.  Unfortunately, as it was well outside of the 1-2m range for doing the low power encrypted key exchange, the inclusion goes to crap.  I stress again it was STILL a secure inclusion, it did not revert to a non-secure inclusion, but the device is broken as it is a secure device with no security keys exchanged.

In fact, Vera gets in one of its major moods where no matter how many times you unpair, or give up and try and delete, it claims to have done it but never does.  You end up with a device that's broken but can't be removed because Vera has contact with the device and tries talking with it, but cannot do so properly so the unpairing and even outright delete (which you would think the point of is to simply purge it out) simply never works.  The solution is to remove power from the Fibaro, THEN do the outright delete (actually twice, Vera is still in a bad mood the first time), and then power the Fibaro back up and do a factory reset on it.

So this often discussed theory that a long distance pairing might cause a non-secure inclusion is, I'm afraid, false.  At least for Vera, maybe the theory came about because other controllers do fall-back?