Poll

How do you sleep at night?

Ive been awake since i installed the Vera
2 (5.9%)
I dont use IP cameras with the Vera because of this
7 (20.6%)
I dont value my own privacy/dont care if someone can see me at home
2 (5.9%)
I (blindly) trust MCV and the security model
8 (23.5%)
HUH!?  I had no idea!
2 (5.9%)
I enjoy voyeurism/I see this as a feature!
3 (8.8%)
I fall asleep pondering this exact concern myself, but I live with it since there is no option to disable this
8 (23.5%)
Ive disabled the remote tunnel manually
2 (5.9%)

Total Members Voted: 32

Author Topic: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?  (Read 6362 times)

Offline hightop32

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Current vera/MIOS users, how do you feel, or answer critics of the Vera with regard to your IP cameras being exposed to Vera central management (IE micasaverde staff/support and potentially hackers or even other users in the case misconfiguration like we saw earlier today).

More directly, as pasted from the other trhead:  

How does one answer 'Soooo, they can basically see screenshots/video of all of my IP cameras and everything about my homes configuration and frequency of activity derived from my scheduled scenes?', ive found that usually, 'Oh, trust me (read: them), its fine and secure, dont worry about it', doesnt cut the mustard.

 ??? ??? ???


if you have a poll response that is unlisted or doesn't fit in the existing categories, please state it in this thread and i will gladly add it.  

I want the poll to yield an accurate representation of users opinions of the matter.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 05:36:55 pm by hightop32 »

Offline mdconnelly

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Re: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?
« Reply #1 on: June 22, 2011, 05:33:31 pm »
I don't see the poll as written to be a very useful exercise although raising awareness of the concern is valid.  It just needs to be accompanied by a well considered and articulated discussion.   

If the misconfiguration risk that occurred is a one-time short exposure, then so be it. Sh*t happens and kudos to MCV for acknowledging, responding and explaining it in a timely fashion.  But if it is a larger risk or one that may be repeated (and if there is factual reason to believe so), then we should absolutely be made aware.

Offline hightop32

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Re: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?
« Reply #2 on: June 22, 2011, 05:35:01 pm »
I don't see the poll as written to be a very useful exercise although raising awareness of the concern is valid.  It just needs to be accompanied by a well considered and articulated discussion.  

If the misconfiguration risk that occurred is a one-time short exposure, then so be it. Sh*t happens and kudos to MCV for acknowledging, responding and explaining it in a timely fashion.  But if it is a larger risk or one that may be repeated (and if there is factual reason to believe so), then we should absolutely be made aware.

overall, in agreement.

do you have any opinion with regard to who we know can view our streams, the staff themselves?

id appreciate a response to the poll, the more data gathered/exposure regarding this topic the better!

Offline grybrd

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Re: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?
« Reply #3 on: June 22, 2011, 05:44:41 pm »
I will be blunt ... a poll like this is only self serving.   I believe a well worded poll would get you much better responses.   I too am a security nut who has been in the business for 35+ years ... yes Vera/MIOS is not 'Red Book'...  but what site is .. not the CIA. 

Offline hightop32

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Re: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?
« Reply #4 on: June 22, 2011, 05:45:40 pm »
I will be blunt ... a poll like this is only self serving.   I believe a well worded poll would get you much better responses.   I too am a security nut who has been in the business for 35+ years ... yes Vera/MIOS is not 'Red Book'...  but what site is .. not the CIA.  

I am more than willing to add ANY answer to the poll.  I want everyones opinion to be represented.  This is a real/serious concern and I would like the results to be taken seriously.  I apologize for the admittedly somewhat sarcastic poll options but its hard taking someone elses perspective on this.
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 05:48:08 pm by hightop32 »

Offline futzle

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Re: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?
« Reply #5 on: June 22, 2011, 06:15:52 pm »
Hi @hightop32,

Personally, I've taken steps to prevent MCV or anyone else from seeing my IP cameras.  I've disabled the HTTP tunnel, and I have all my cameras on switches so that they turn on only when scenes activate them.  The Only Safe Computer Is A Switched Off Computer, and all that.

I know it's really hard to tell tone of voice in a text forum, but there is a boundary between concern and hysteria, and I sense more of the latter than is useful.  We know that MCV is full of people who understand networking, so let's utilize that, and ask targetted questions about exactly what risks we choose to expose ourselves to when we do certain things on a Vera, and how to mitigate those risks.  MCV has never (to my knowledge) censored a post on the security forum, and I don't think that they're trying to hide anything.

Offline hightop32

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Re: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?
« Reply #6 on: June 22, 2011, 06:24:15 pm »
Personally, I've taken steps to prevent MCV or anyone else from seeing my IP cameras.  I've disabled the HTTP tunnel, and I have all my cameras on switches so that they turn on only when scenes activate them.  The Only Safe Computer Is A Switched Off Computer, and all that.

I know it's really hard to tell tone of voice in a text forum, but there is a boundary between concern and hysteria, and I sense more of the latter than is useful.  We know that MCV is full of people who understand networking, so let's utilize that, and ask targetted questions about exactly what risks we choose to expose ourselves to when we do certain things on a Vera, and how to mitigate those risks.  MCV has never (to my knowledge) censored a post on the security forum, and I don't think that they're trying to hide anything.


thank you for sharing.  ive added a new option to the poll.  'Ive disabled the remote tunnel manually'.  please participate!

i agree with you, and the goal of this to create enough exposure to show MCV users want choices (perhaps the ability to do what you did via the UI would suffice) when it comes to how theyd like their vera configured (and not just with regard to IP cameras)!  
« Last Edit: June 22, 2011, 06:28:16 pm by hightop32 »

Offline MCV.Eugen

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Re: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?
« Reply #7 on: June 23, 2011, 02:20:03 am »
My personal 2 cents (read: not MCV official opinion): How can you sleep at night knowing someone else (read: a bank) manages your money? I've read hundreds of stories about money stolen from bank accounts by bank employees. I sleep at night knowing that this CAN indeed happen. I just don't worry about.

Food companies poisoning random bits of bread. Plumbers attaching bombs to your pipes. Baby sitters... well, ok, let's not go there.

To some extent you trust some people because they are professionals. You trust Microsoft that Windows is secure and your information will not leak from your computer. I can say that some people trust you (the topic starter) that your action you take while doing your job will help them, not causing them problems.

Ok, again, personal opinion, MCV will say 'we are not looking at your cameras, we are not even looking at your thermostats reading'. It's easy, you trust this or not. If you don't, well, it would be either one of these things: you don't use the (current) product, you find a way to make the product work as you want, the company is taking the steps to address these issues. Or a combinations of them.

No user issue is ignored, no feature request is denied. It's just a matter of priorities and development plan. And even the not-so-constructive criticism helps, because progress was always pushed by not-so-content people.

Again, if you're looking for official answers, they are not in my post. It's just my personal opinion.

Offline Michele

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Re: POLL: Eyes peering into your home. How do you sleep at night?
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2011, 03:33:17 pm »
Personally, I'm not too pleased about sharing my video streams with anyone else.  How hard would it be to simply blank out the video for remote tech support access?  Or maybe just display a gray box proportional to the average scene illumination - that could help verify if a light went on or off but not reveal any real content.

Of course I can always go around the house and drop a piece of paper in front of each camera when I'm allowing remote diagnostics  :P