Author Topic: Vera Controler Down... For Real!  (Read 4119 times)

Offline kwieto

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #15 on: May 16, 2018, 08:35:04 am »
Did you try to use "configure node right now"(advanced/commands section) button?
It should send configuration request to the device, maybe it will exchage new security keys at that step?
The only issue here is that all sub devices will get new ID's after such request.

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #16 on: May 16, 2018, 09:15:51 am »
Did you try to use "configure node right now"(advanced/commands section) button?
It should send configuration request to the device, maybe it will exchage new security keys at that step?
The only issue here is that all sub devices will get new ID's after such request.

Thanks for the suggestion, appreciate all the ideas guys :)

Unfortunately this has given another device the dreaded red bar - same old secure classes failing.

I have a few more that we haven't killed yet, and it's almost 24 hours since CC has helped, so if there are any other ideas I'll give them a whirl :D

Offline HSD99

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #17 on: May 16, 2018, 09:26:38 am »
In testing the new Z-Wave firmware on my second VP, it seems to handle inclusions (both types) much better.  You might take a shot at excluding/including in-place the nearest secure device to see if the range limitations have been relaxed. If it works, then you have a new data point. If not, you shouldn't be any worse off.

Offline therealdb

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2018, 09:37:04 am »
Take a look at a previous backup. I had very similar results, but restoring a backup did restore the keys (at least if you have a recent Z-Wave backup inside) and everything went OK after that.

Now I periodically backup Z-wave and my system to a local file...
Vera Edge, Fibaro FGRM 222 (12), Fibaro FGS 223 (20), Fibaro FGS 222 (5), Fibaro Universal Binary Sensor (2), Fibaro Plug (3), NeoCoolCam Door Sensor (3), NeoCoolCam PIR (1), Nest (3), Raspberry PI running my own integrations, Harmony Hub, OpenSprinkler, Personal Weather Station

Offline rafale77

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2018, 09:38:15 am »
I am still wondering how this could have happened... Somehow alll of your secure class key in the network changed? They should normally be saved in your backup so if an even older backup is failing, some controller or the vera itself must have done something. I am even wondering if your zwave chip is failing. You may want to get another unit just to test.
openLuup (97 devices, 134 scenes, 20 apps) controlling HomeAss + VeraPlus (134 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 200 devices, 20 scenes , 2 app) Bridged to Homekit and Alexa. VeraPlus ExtRooted!

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #20 on: May 16, 2018, 09:46:26 am »
I am still wondering how this could have happened... Somehow alll of your secure class key in the network changed? They should normally be saved in your backup so if an even older backup is failing, some controller or the vera itself must have done something. I am even wondering if your zwave chip is failing. You may want to get another unit just to test.
Don't forget this all started because my Vera spontaneously died, for which there is still no explanation for.  So something went majorly wrong.

So entirely possible you could be right, but I would have thought CC would have spotted a failure with the Z-Wave chip.

Then again at one point last night they did say they could see errors occurring with the Z-Wave, but I never heard anything more on that.  Their next concern was my MultiSensors apparently "flooding" the network... in my world of IT flooding would mean hundreds or thousands of packets per SECOND, but the logs they showed me was simply one or two packets being sent per MINUTE.  So that's just the temperature and various other sensor readings.

Unfortunately has been almost 24 hours since I've heard from CC so I don't know anything more from their end - have replied to the ticket multiple times throughout the day but nothing.


Now I periodically backup Z-wave and my system to a local file...
If my Vera is ever working again I'll certainly be doing that from now on.  I simply hadn't because in my mind I was a very long way from having finished setting her up so didn't see the need... until I thought I was going to lose everything (unaware Vera keep backups in the cloud) and then realised the work I had invested thus far was still worthy of backup...


In testing the new Z-Wave firmware on my second VP, it seems to handle inclusions (both types) much better.  You might take a shot at excluding/including in-place the nearest secure device to see if the range limitations have been relaxed. If it works, then you have a new data point. If not, you shouldn't be any worse off.

I'm thinking of doing a "Replace Failed" - but I didn't want to start messing with the pairings of everything until CC had one more look.  Unfortunately that never happened today or tonight, so I'll have to give that a whirl tomorrow night.

Offline Sorin

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #21 on: May 16, 2018, 10:06:44 am »

I'm thinking of doing a "Replace Failed" - but I didn't want to start messing with the pairings of everything until CC had one more look.  Unfortunately that never happened today or tonight, so I'll have to give that a whirl tomorrow night.

Tillsy, having the team trying to prio this and help you ASAP. It's a good thing if you've did not start doing any pairing/removing/replacing of z-wave devices yet.
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Offline Tillsy

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #22 on: May 16, 2018, 10:09:24 am »
Went to bed and though stuff it, I need to at least have done SOMETHING today.

So I got back up, picked a multiswitch since I can physically grab and move to Vera, and documented my settings and scenes.

Tried all I could to get it to replace failed, to re-see, nothing worked.

So I just deleted the thing.  About 5 times until it finally did.  Then I factory reset the multiswitch.

Then I went to pair it fresh.  Errrrrrrrrrrr, should have seen this coming.  Vera and the Z-Wave chip are faaaaaaar too busy whinging that they can't see 30 odd devices properly to even think about going into pairing mode...

So that was a brick wall, I'm going to bed before I start throwing things at the Vera... getting really angry here :(

Offline rafale77

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #23 on: May 16, 2018, 10:15:45 am »
Thanks for sharing your experience mate... I am confused by the zwave being too busy and you reporting that the vera logs only very few entries per minute from the zwave chip. I am definitely adding a secondary zwave controller when I get home and it won?t be a vera. The new zwave firmware by the way seem to have increased the frequency of missed zwave messages for me. Oddly it seem like the missed messages are now always secure devices ?untrip?. I somehow have not seen a missed ?trip? or non secure entry recently.
openLuup (97 devices, 134 scenes, 20 apps) controlling HomeAss + VeraPlus (134 zwave nodes, 8 Zigbee nodes, 200 devices, 20 scenes , 2 app) Bridged to Homekit and Alexa. VeraPlus ExtRooted!

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #24 on: May 16, 2018, 10:22:20 am »
Tillsy, having the team trying to prio this and help you ASAP. It's a good thing if you've did not start doing any pairing/removing/replacing of z-wave devices yet.

Ohhhhh crap, now I wish I had just stayed in bed... how's that for bad timing :(  I'm so sorry, but it's 24 hours since last assistance and I have a very upset family so I finally caved and tried something...

It's only the one device so hopefully worst case is simply that, if someone remoted in overnight and sorted things out, I just have to re-setup that one item...

The shuttle bay doors are still open (tech support enabled) so please help yourselves I'm going back to bed before I do anymore harm, darn it :( :( :(

Offline Sorin

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #25 on: May 16, 2018, 10:26:35 am »
Go have some rest Tillsy,

We'll pick it from here and see what can be done there.

I'm sorry for the trouble.
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Offline Tillsy

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #26 on: May 16, 2018, 05:30:23 pm »
Okay CC have been back in overnight and have advised:
  • Everything should now be fine
  • My multi-sensors need to be unpaired from secure mode and paired in non-secure mode
  • Three Fibaros were configuring continuously and have now had auto-config turned off

Reality:
  • Nothing has changed, not a thing - nothing can be controlled, nothing is acknowledged, red bars everywhere, whole thing is broken
  • The multi-sensors have been in secure mode for months without issue.  They must be in secure mode.  They have Z-Wave association with a Fibaro light.  You cannot have a non-secure device associated with a secure device.  Besides, I can't even pair anything anyway that doesn't work either.  Nothing works
  • Those Fibaro's configuring continuously are because the system is still stuffed, nothing is working nothing is responding and CC tried doing configuration on those three Fibaro's when originally trying to fix it so of course it's continuously trying to configure them because it ain't working

So now it's day 3 and unchanged :(

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #27 on: May 16, 2018, 05:43:38 pm »
A small sample of evidence...

Offline Tillsy

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #28 on: May 16, 2018, 05:44:50 pm »
Oh, and how most things look...

Offline martynwendon

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Re: Vera Controler Down... For Real!
« Reply #29 on: May 16, 2018, 06:10:01 pm »
Sounds horrendous :-(

My advice would be:

  • Factory reset, including Z-Wave network
  • Ensure Z-Wave chip firmware is the older version, not their newest alpha-at-best effort - if not, you may need to SSH in and manually flash it back to 4.5 (forum search will give you the details)
  • Pull all batteries from Z-Wave battery devices
  • Power down all circuits with Z-Wave modules on and pull any Z-Wave plugin devices
  • Restore a backup, including Z-Wave network, from at least a week ago (when everything was working OK)
  • Bring mains powered Z-Wave devices back on-line gradually, making sure they are working
  • Put battery powered Z-Wave devices back into action next
  • At any point after the restore if things start going screwy, pause and analyse logs

Oh and it never hurts to have a spare Vera on the shelf as backup ...... it's well worth the money at times like these as a simple power down of the original Vera and restore a backup on the replacement Vera can have you back up and running very quickly ..... and if something is still screwy then you just ruled out the hardware being the cause.


Hope you manage to get back to stable quickly.