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Author Topic: Bayonet or Edison Screw z-wave module  (Read 3941 times)

Offline treefrog911

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Bayonet or Edison Screw z-wave module
« on: December 20, 2011, 07:09:09 pm »
Hi,

Want to test out Z-wave without major rewiring. I'm using CFL bulbs and don't want to use a dimmer (much simpler if I don't for various reasons).

Because I only have 2 wires in my switches, and also don't want to mess around replacing them, I thought of using the Bayonet / Edison Screw z-wave light bulb adaptors, such as this one:

Everspring AN145-4 B22 Lamp Holder

However it looks like that module is a dimmer and won't be happy with CFL.

Are there any other similar modules which are just simple relay ON/OFF switches and so would work with CFL bulbs.

Just for the record, I will leave the wall power switch permanently on, and operate the module using a battery-powered Z-wave remote switch.

Thanks,

Dave

Offline Double J

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Re: Bayonet or Edison Screw z-wave module
« Reply #1 on: December 20, 2011, 11:41:40 pm »
Intermatic HA05C screw-in module. I have 4 of these. Three are outside for our front post and porch light and carport light. Two are 25 & 30' from the nearest z-wave switch. I've never had a problem with connectivity and no problems with cfl's.

It works well for our situation. Although, they aren't as practical in places that you would still like to use a physical switch. You'll find yourself with that switch in the off position until you can train everyone in the household to leave it on. :)
"Trust, but verify." ~ Ronald Reagan

Offline treefrog911

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Re: Bayonet or Edison Screw z-wave module
« Reply #2 on: December 22, 2011, 09:44:39 am »
Thanks for the reply. Unfortunately, I should have said, I'm based in Europe. According to the manual for that product... it's only suitable for 120V.

Are there any 240V on/off bayonet (preferably) or ES fittings anyone knows about?

Offline andygodber

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Re: Bayonet or Edison Screw z-wave module
« Reply #3 on: December 22, 2011, 11:30:43 am »
What's the crack with CFL (low energy bulbs) and Z-Wave? The device in the OP says compatible with resistive loads....

Offline treefrog911

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Re: Bayonet or Edison Screw z-wave module
« Reply #4 on: December 22, 2011, 03:52:23 pm »
Ok, well this is my essay on why, after many hours of research, I think it's currently difficult to retrofit a UK home with Z-wave.

As I understand it, a resistive load is basically a conventional incandescent or halogen bulb. These are extremely energy-inefficient (although I do love the white light of halogen bulbs). I believe that a CFL bulb (ballast etc) would be a capacitive load - please note my knowledge of electrics is very sketchy!

Anyway, this is actually a huge problem for retrofitting home automation in the UK. It's because all the wall switches in our houses are wired with just two wires - live flow and live return (probably the wrong terminology). This means that there is no neutral, and so a regular z-wave on/off switch (which would work fine with a capacitative CFL bulb) cannot be powered. The only answer is to have a dimmer switch, which somehow manages to draw power by putting the light on at a very low level (too little to be visible). The new Fibaro Micro Modules for example do this... and realistically I think they're the best option for retrofitting... as you get to keep your existing light switches... cosmetically appealing and also avoids the problem of many switches being incompatible / badly fitting with UK pattress boxes.

However, all of these 'dimmer's switches only work with resistive loads, and these are just not an option for most UK householders (waste of energy etc). I have even tried dimmable CFL bulbs (Varilight) but they didn't work very well.

So, there is a further bodge which I looked into...  you can use a switch module at the lamp itself - which can switch on and off properly as there is a neutral present at the lamp itself. Without dismantling ceilings etc, the most obvious solution is an in-line switch that goes between the fixing and the CFL bulbs, and this would be controlled by remote z-wave switches (e.g. battery powered units). However, there doesn't seem to be any module that's 240v and also a simple on/off switch (rather than a dimmer requiring a resistive load). Even if I could find such a thing (I haven't yet), the chances of it being the UK standard bayonet fitting seems very slim (so you'd have to rewire all your light pendants to ES).

I would love to be proved wrong, but it's looking like Z-wave in its current incarnation is just not suitable for retrofitting to UK wiring, unless:

1. You're building a new house / rewiring - not retrofit.
2. You are happy using only incandescent / halogen bulbs everywhere (IMO extremely inefficient, and they don't last as long either).
3. Anyone can find a bayonet lamp module that's 240V. If you're prepared to change all your pendant fixtures then I guess ES could be used instead.

I've noticed that the proprietary system Lightwave RF, which appears to be designed for the UK market, have integrated the switches into the actual CFL bulbs themselves. Seems a terrible waste as presumably you have to throw away all the control electronics when the bulb blows, but I guess that's the only neat retrofit solution for the UK given the way we wire our light switches. I'd prefer to use Z-wave with it's proven flexibility, rather than this proprietary solution.

Offline Frasier

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Re: Bayonet or Edison Screw z-wave module
« Reply #5 on: December 22, 2011, 04:19:32 pm »
Maybe I'm missing something but if you just want switching then the Fibar FGS211 (and 221) use a relay contact for switching so I don't see why it would not work with CFL's, the switching capacity is degraded due to the capacitive load but as its nominally rated for 3kw a standard CFL under a 100w should not be an issue. You could place it in a box above the fitting in the ceiling where L & N will be present for supplying the light. You can feed in the switched live from your light switch to the Fibar for manual control with z-wave over-ride. Everspring are also bringing out a range of switch modules in 2012.

Offline gilesjuk

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Re: Bayonet or Edison Screw z-wave module
« Reply #6 on: December 22, 2011, 06:51:04 pm »
Incandescent bulbs are just a piece of wire. CFL bulbs have all sorts of electronics in them.

Halogen bulbs are 20% more efficient than normal incandescent. Plus the light is so good compared to a CFL you can dim the halogen a bit. I doubt there will be that much of a electricity difference. Using CFL saves about £3 a year in electric.