Vera - Smarter Home Control Forum

General => General => Topic started by: fje on May 31, 2018, 03:00:20 am

Title: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on May 31, 2018, 03:00:20 am
Hi, I found a very old topic asking for the same question, but no answer for a long time.

Does any one figured out if it is possible when Vera Edge hub discovers in one of its polling cycles that one of the defined sensors is not answering anymore and gets a "timeout" to send an alert telling that such sensor is not reachable anymore?

Thanks and regards
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: rafale77 on May 31, 2018, 10:54:25 am
This is in the notification menu of the vera if you want to use the vera app and notifications... It is under the user/log in section
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on May 31, 2018, 12:29:48 pm
Thanks for your fast answer.

I don't have the possibility of test it just now, but thanks for the suggestion, as soon as I could do it, I'll do.

Regards.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 10, 2018, 09:55:21 am
Thanks for your fast answer.

I don't have the possibility of test it just now, but thanks for the suggestion, as soon as I could do it, I'll do.

Regards.

Hi, I am now ready to test it, but I cannot find where it is. Do you refer to the Vera Alerts plugin that has to be installed in the VERA Edge controller? I have it installed and when I enter in edit it, I have a new windows with three columns Settings, Profile, Notifications and Editor Options.

If you refer to the Vera appl in the smartphone, I don't find it either.

And I just downloaded and installed VERA Alerts in my smartphone, I logged in and I cannot find it either.

Maybe if you could send to me a picture of where to find it it could be of help.

Regards.

Javier
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: HSD99 on June 10, 2018, 04:47:36 pm
Thanks for your fast answer.

I don't have the possibility of test it just now, but thanks for the suggestion, as soon as I could do it, I'll do.

Regards.

Hi, I am now ready to test it, but I cannot find where it is. Do you refer to the Vera Alerts plugin that has to be installed in the VERA Edge controller? I have it installed and when I enter in edit it, I have a new windows with three columns Settings, Profile, Notifications and Editor Options.

If you refer to the Vera appl in the smartphone, I don't find it either.

And I just downloaded and installed VERA Alerts in my smartphone, I logged in and I cannot find it either.

Maybe if you could send to me a picture of where to find it it could be of help.

Regards.

Javier

On your Vera running UI7, please look under "Users & Account Info" --->"Notifications Settings"--->then check the "Device Error Alert (a device in your Vera is not working properly)" box. This will send you a Vera alert whenever you have a device problem. This does not require any third-party software or plug-ins. You will need to have set up notifications (push or email) under "User Info" first.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 10, 2018, 05:04:51 pm
Found it!, thanks, and every one of the things you tell me was already marked, even I am a new user, probably my experience using other devices told me to do that way. My question anyway was if with that done I would receive an alert, you confirm it to me.

I suppose I will not get the alert till the controller does a polling to the device in error, that is also a parameter device dependent and that has to be balanced between a low number (more security, bad for the battery duration) or a not low number (more battery duration, less security).

Thanks for your help

Javier
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 12, 2018, 11:29:57 am
Come back to this topic because  was able to do a test just minutes ago.

I put mode "Home", waited for some minutes, took out the battery of a NEO CoolCam motion sensor I have, again waited for some minutes, and the changed to mode "Vacations".

I got alarms from Vera telling me movement was detected (Maybe that of minutes ago when I was taking out the battery?), but nothing telling a malfunction of the sensor.

Even more, I went to the VERA Dashboard and there was nothing marking in the Device that it was not working.

I have defined for that device 30 segs for polling and 300 segs (it seems to be the minimum) for wakeup time.

I have a similar problem with the controller going offline. I get a Vera alert in the Vera app in the smartphone, but not a push alert, and Vera App do not produce any sound in the Android smartphone to alert me that an alert has come. Is there any way to make me aware of such a condition with a sound for instance? I have defined Vera app in my smartphone with Notifications ON and also to be working when screen. is off

Of course I have all the notifications marked in Notifications Settings.

Any idea of help?

Ragards
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: cw-kid on June 13, 2018, 07:19:42 am
I just enabled the "Device Error Alert (a device in your Vera is not working properly)" settings on my Vera.

I then unplugged one of my Z-Wave appliance plug devices and waited.

I then got bored of waiting and manually sent a Poll command to the device.

There was an Error message shown in the UI7 GUI as it could not poll the device.

However I don't appear to have been sent an email notification about the device being offline.

So not sure if this works or not?
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: rafale77 on June 13, 2018, 07:22:51 am
It does, it just takes some retries before it decided to send the notification.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: cw-kid on June 13, 2018, 07:25:20 am
OK will keep an eye out and report back.

Thanks
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 13, 2018, 10:24:49 am
OK will keep an eye out and report back.

Thanks

Is this something to report as an improvement? For example, think a bout someone with an frequency interferor (sorry, don't know the exact English word) that cut the communication between the sensor and the controller. It doesn't seems to be very reasonable to have to wait minutes (depending also of the polling period you defined) till someone is interfiring in your security system?.

And what about the controller itself offline? I didn't get any push alert about it. (There was an alert in the VERA app, but you only see it if you enter in the app.

Regards
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: cw-kid on June 13, 2018, 10:34:03 am
Well its been several hours since I unplugged that Z-Wave appliance plug and I still haven't got any notification and no error banner on the device in the UI7 web GUI.

So if this does indeed work, it seems to be taking some time.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 13, 2018, 12:21:57 pm
Should we open a ticket on Support or are they also watching this forum?
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: cw-kid on June 13, 2018, 12:48:10 pm
I will leave that plug not connected over night, see what happens then.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on June 13, 2018, 01:11:14 pm
You should get push message when your controller is down, and a text message if you configured your phone number (remember there is daily limit for text messages).
I don't think immediate response is good as you probably don't want to be flooded with error messages if for example your power went down for a couple of minutes.

Wysłane z mojego Lenovo K53a48 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: cw-kid on June 13, 2018, 01:43:19 pm
So it won't email me ? I have added my mobile number previously, but I am in the UK so might not even get SMS message from Vera.

I generally use the 3rd party "Vera Alerts" and never bothered with Vera's own inbuilt notification stuff.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: cw-kid on June 13, 2018, 01:54:11 pm
I just got an email and an sms message from Vera LOL

Device:Front Garden LEDs (#84) in Front Garden is offline. alert: #16418684031, serial #. 2018-06-13 17:51:18

So it does seem to work after all. That Plug in the UI7 GUI now says "Can't Detect Device" with a red banner.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 13, 2018, 02:07:49 pm
You should get push message when your controller is down, and a text message if you configured your phone number (remember there is daily limit for text messages).
I don't think immediate response is good as you probably don't want to be flooded with error messages if for example your power went down for a couple of minutes.

Wysłane z mojego Lenovo K53a48 przy użyciu Tapatalka

Thanks for your answer. Let me go point by point.

I DO NOT get a push message when my controller is down, this is why I am concerned. A text message is received, but the daily limit may (and it does) cut it.

If I am using this devices for security alarms, I will not care if I get alarms for power cut at all. It could be also a alert that someone is cutting it. I understand that some places could have that problem, this could be configurable by the user in those cases.

Regards.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on June 13, 2018, 04:44:06 pm
So it won't email me ?

It should work as push message. I disabled e-mail notifications long time ago to avoid doubling them with push notifications so I siply forgotten of its existence (I use standard Vera service and it works well for me).

Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on June 13, 2018, 05:10:05 pm
I DO NOT get a push message when my controller is down, this is why I am concerned.

You should, as it is sent by Vera servers when they can't reach the controller.

If I am using this devices for security alarms, I will not care if I get alarms for power cut at all. It could be also a alert that someone is cutting it.

For that purpose battery operated devices are designed. They usually have tamper switches (one or more, depending on the design), firing alarm if someone try to tweak with them. And of course your router and controller should be on UPS, to be able processing the alert from device and act accordingly, i.e. fire (battery backuped) siren.

I wouldn't rely on any security system which is not working in case of power failure.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 13, 2018, 06:00:45 pm
Again, I don't know why, but when the controller is down (offline by itself, for instance) or when one of the sensor is not responding (I took out the battery), I don't get any push alarm.

Maybe you refer to an SMS message, but due to the daily limit, I don't get them.

For push alerts I am using VeraAlerts plugging and Pushover and when a sensor detects movement, for instance, I get the push alert, but in the other cases (controller offline or device not reachable), I do not get any sound alert in my smartphone, even I have the Vera App in my phone defined for giving notifications and for execute with the screen off.

If I look to my smartphone, sometimes I could see a Vera Icon in the notification area, but no alert, no sound before that would alert me that such alert came.

regards.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on June 14, 2018, 03:13:43 am
Again, I don't know why, but when the controller is down (offline by itself, for instance) or when one of the sensor is not responding (I took out the battery), I don't get any push alarm.

Check your notification settings in Vera. For sure you should receive notification when controller is down. It takes couple of minutes, but shouldn't be longer than 5 minutes to get an offline alert.
For devices it is more tricky, as it depends on polling/wakeup settings. Battery operated devices have longer time to respond here, and it can take couple of hours to get information that they are offline.
This is why most (all?) security sensors, like door/window, motion, smoke, etc. have tamper switches, which send alert message immediately i.e. when device's cover is opened.
Since they do send low battery alerts as well, there is little chance that you leave your device offline for couple of hours by accident.

For push alerts I am using VeraAlerts plugging and Pushover

I don't use VeraAlerts, so I won't be help here. I used services like Pushover (Pushalot and Pushbullet) in the past but not for Vera (I used them for IFTTT), and don't have good experiences. The main issue was that notifications sometimes worked, sometimes not, sometimes with long delays.
I blamed specific apps for the troubles (I used 3-rd party apps for those services), but it might be that it is just how these services behave, I don't know.

If I look to my smartphone, sometimes I could see a Vera Icon in the notification area, but no alert, no sound before that would alert me that such alert came.

Then maybe you have sounds/alerts disabled for Vera app in your notification center?
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: Paulb4333 on June 14, 2018, 08:22:52 am
Hi,
This may not be exactly what you are looking for, but with the help of some other posters, my system and reporting is working better.
I have several devices that "fail" periodically. Manually turning them on or off usually fixes them.
-A suggestion was made to send a periodic "on" command to the devices e.g. every 30 minutes. That seems to work for some devices. I'm experimenting with the intervals.
-I had times, especially it seems when I was away, when the Vera became unresponsive, and unavailable remotely. I purchased a cheap, battery backed up timer from Amazon that cycles my Vera at 4 AM. (I do the same for my modem, which has greatly improved its reliability too)
-I've installed the app "system monitor" which tells me when I've lost connectivity and when it then is "connected reliably". For whatever reason, I get a few disconnects a week.
Lastly, in trying to monitor the status of a freezer, a community member suggested I turn on a "smart power" switch at an interval and turn on notifications. In my tests, this sends me a text whenever that polled device does not report. It only seems to do it one time.
Hope this helps.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 14, 2018, 08:43:41 am
Thanks to both of you that answerd. Now my answers:

To kwieto: All VERA notifications are marked to send notifications. And they seems to arrive to the VERA app in the smartphone, but no alarm in my phone, no sound, no notification in my phone.

To Paulb4333: Hoe that "system monitor" app/plugin works? Which way it will send the alert to my smartphone?

To both, I am now testing to use the "device tampered" alarm to see if it covers at least the possibility of manipulating or interfere the sensors.

Still to think about the "offline" of the controller.

Thanks again

Regards.

Javier
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: Paulb4333 on June 14, 2018, 12:06:21 pm
System monitor is a free app that gives you info about the CPU load and memory, shows log history (very useful), and system restart. It sends notification to whatever you have selected...email or text or both.
Useful tool!
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on June 14, 2018, 01:58:28 pm
To kwieto: All VERA notifications are marked to send notifications. And they seems to arrive to the VERA app in the smartphone, but no alarm in my phone, no sound, no notification in my phone.

Then check your phone settings.
If messages arrive to your phone, then they are sent and delivered. If your phone doesn't ring on arrival, it's not a problem of controller but phone or phone app settings. Maybe you have disabled sound and/or vibration for specific app?

Still to think about the "offline" of the controller.

Puti it on UPS, as well as your internet AP.
This way if somebody cut your power you will have more detailed information than just vague "controller offline" message.
And the controller will be able to trigger an alarm if needed.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 14, 2018, 05:28:48 pm
To kwieto: All VERA notifications are marked to send notifications. And they seems to arrive to the VERA app in the smartphone, but no alarm in my phone, no sound, no notification in my phone.

Then check your phone settings.
If messages arrive to your phone, then they are sent and delivered. If your phone doesn't ring on arrival, it's not a problem of controller but phone or phone app settings. Maybe you have disabled sound and/or vibration for specific app?

As I said in some previous post, as far as I know my phone, VERA Mobile app is allowed for Notifications, allowed to work when screen is dark, and all Notifications in the phone are up and OK.

I still don't know why VERA is not producing any sound, and, by the way, if I open VERA mobile settings, I see the notifications menu, with notifications allowed, but nothing about sound to produce. On the other hand, PushOver HAS a particular menu for sounds. Or am I missing something in the VERA mobile app?

Regards.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: HSD99 on June 14, 2018, 06:07:08 pm
To kwieto: All VERA notifications are marked to send notifications. And they seems to arrive to the VERA app in the smartphone, but no alarm in my phone, no sound, no notification in my phone.

Then check your phone settings.
If messages arrive to your phone, then they are sent and delivered. If your phone doesn't ring on arrival, it's not a problem of controller but phone or phone app settings. Maybe you have disabled sound and/or vibration for specific app?
As I said in some previous post, as far as I know my phone, VERA Mobile app is allowed for Notifications, allowed to work when screen is dark, and all Notifications in the phone are up and OK.

I still don't know why VERA is not producing any sound, and, by the way, if I open VERA mobile settings, I see the notifications menu, with notifications allowed, but nothing about sound to produce. On the other hand, PushOver HAS a particular menu for sounds. Or am I missing something in the VERA mobile app?

Regards.
Note that under "Vera"--->"Allow Notifications" are selections for "Sounds" and where alerts are to be shown.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 15, 2018, 02:33:07 am
Note that under "Vera"--->"Allow Notifications" are selections for "Sounds" and where alerts are to be shown.

Hi, this is what I could expect, but it is not in my new Android phone. I go to "Applications", then select VERA Mobile, Notifications and there I can see "allow Notifications" and then "Priority View" and then "where the alerts should be shown".
But nothing about sounds  :(
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on June 15, 2018, 06:50:25 am
Go to the settings of your phone and find "notification center" (or something like that, I don't know exact English phrase).
Then choose apps and find settings for Vera app.
Probably you have enabled a setting where notifications from Vera app don't ring a sound or vibrate ("send unobtrusive notifications" or something like that).

You may also long press on a notification from vera app and then choose "more settings" to go to the same place.

Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 15, 2018, 02:03:15 pm
Go to the settings of your phone and find "notification center" (or something like that, I don't know exact English phrase).
Then choose apps and find settings for Vera app.
Probably you have enabled a setting where notifications from Vera app don't ring a sound or vibrate ("send unobtrusive notifications" or something like that).

You may also long press on a notification from vera app and then choose "more settings" to go to the same place.
I did first suggestion and comes with me to the same point I told in previous post.

Second suggestion only allows me to delete the alarm received or, if I do from the status bar goes to the same point as previous, and there is none parameter related to sound or not sound.

And, by the way, I disconnected the controller from the internet and... No alarm was sent.

 >:( >:( >:(

Should I raise a ticket to support or are they looking also at this forum?

Regards
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on June 15, 2018, 04:59:32 pm
I did first suggestion and comes with me to the same point I told in previous post.

Second suggestion only allows me to delete the alarm received or, if I do from the status bar goes to the same point as previous, and there is none parameter related to sound or not sound.

Maybe it depends on the revision of Android, I can set if notifications should be "silent" or not.

And, by the way, I disconnected the controller from the internet and... No alarm was sent.

 >:( >:( >:(

Should I raise a ticket to support or are they looking also at this forum?

They don't pick tickets from the forum (how they could know which controller you are talking about?)
I would check if controller is presented as offline in web interface. If yes, then probably something is wrong with notifications from Vera (= ticket), If controller is presented as online, then something is maybe with controller itself or your network connection.
For notifications which are on the phone but without any sound, in my opinion something is on the phone's side.
You can try to re-install vera's mobile app on your phone.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 15, 2018, 05:25:41 pm
OK, Kwieto, thanks for your answer and suggestions.

I will do tomorrow some of the checks you suggest and depending of the results, I will act.

I will also update this forum with results.

Thanks again.

regards.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on June 15, 2018, 05:56:20 pm
First test done:
1.- Controller disconnected from internet
2.- web interface says: offline"
3.- No indication, no alert in VERA Mobile app.

So, following your suggestion I will open a ticket in support.

Will keep this forum posted of results.

regards.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on July 01, 2018, 03:46:15 am
I have been out for a while, school vacations took me busy with grandkids.

In the meantime, changes occurred, so, I am updating this topic with them.

Alerts finally came to the VERA Mobile app in the mobile, but without sound. Support answered my ticket with:

********
About the sound for the push notifications for smartphones, which have the Android version below 8, please note that our mobile development team was able to reproduce it and it will be resolved in the next update for the mobile apps. It seems that when you have the app in the background running or when the phone?s screen if off, there is no sound.
********

No time frame for the update for the time now.

Later on, I got an additional answer with more details:

********
1. Controller offline/online
→ if you remove the power/ Ethernet cord from the hub and re-connect it within a few seconds that alert won?t be sent.
→ you will receive the alert after 6 minutes when our servers is detecting that the unit cannot be reached (power off or internet down)
2. A device is not responding
→ that alert will be sent if the device will not respond after 50 consecutive polls or after 4 hours
********

As those times seems too long to me I asked if there could be a way to reduce them or if they could be parametrized and the answer was NO, they aren't, so, I again asked for putting it as suggestion for a future update of the microcode, and asked again for the update to the Android 7 app and the answer was:

********
1. Your request with the time to be shorter in receiving those kind of alerts it?s the first one we have received so far on this matter so if we receive other for sure it will be taken into consideration, I don?[t have an ETA to give you because this can?t be changed so simple in the firmware, it?s something related to our servers so it will take longer to be done and it will impact all of our users.
2. The situation with the sound for alerts in Android systems it?s still under work, it was reported but I can?t provide exactly the date, we?ll post it on our Release Notes page.

********

So, I put all of the answer here for general knowledge and maybe if more people is interested on it, put a suggestion to VERA Support for parametrizing the times of "controller offline alert" and "device not reachable alert".

Regards.

Javier
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on July 01, 2018, 05:15:38 pm
You can set polling time for specified device to really short (i.e. 1 second), then you'll have response really fast (50 polls will be 50 seconds). This won't work for battery operated devices, of course, as they need to wake up to receive and react to polls and setting wake up time to 1sec would drain their battery in days or even hours.
The other potential issue is that in some places with poor range it may happen that you will get lot of false alerts (you may check the PollRatings variables for your devices - the maximum I suppose is 5, the lower the quality of connection is the lower rating you'll have)

I still don't get why you want to use device polling as a factor to diagnose if device was not tricked by someone, while in typical case the easier and more reliable way would be using proper battery operated sensors.
They also can have their own issues, but then you'll be at least informed immediately. One of my door/window sensor have issues with tamper switch which started to wear off and I was flooded with messages "device xyz was tampered" and "device xyz no longer being tampered". As they come immediately and the issue was switch loosing contact my phone sometimes was non-stop buzzing for couple of minutes untill the switch decided to report itself as either tampered or not. Hopefully adding a tiny pad between the switch and the part of the cover that press it solved the problem.
But as I wrote, I got immediate notifications about the status.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: fje on July 02, 2018, 01:56:13 am
Hi, Kwieto. In it is not a battery or mains problem, that in many of the sensors is the only solution, but the possibility of the use of frequency inhibitors the reason for being sure that the communication between sensors and controllers is maintained. And the cabling of all the sensors is not a solution or possible in many circunstancies.

regards.
Title: Re: Alert when device is lost/disconnected
Post by: kwieto on July 02, 2018, 04:19:55 am
but the possibility of the use of frequency inhibitors the reason for being sure that the communication between sensors and controllers is maintained.

But is it a real problem?
If you consider it as likely to happen then maybe go for proffessional solutions?
I don't think Vera (any consumer wiereless product?) will give you the level of security you're looking for