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General => Temperature Monitoring & HVAC Control => Topic started by: rodneyat on June 05, 2012, 03:11:58 pm

Title: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 05, 2012, 03:11:58 pm
I know this is a loaded question.  But, figured I would throw it out there.  I am a new Vera3 user.  I have lights on the system and they have had no issues with the lighting controllers.  But, I have installed a 2GIG TStat and had nothing but issues.  From reading the forums.  It seems I am not the only one.  I am running mine on battery power and was going to attached a C wire when I had a chance.  Then I come to find out there is also a known firmware issue with the TStat running on the CWire.  And Radio Thermostat recommends disconnecting the Cwire and running on batteries.  So, I am stuck.  Well, I still have a few days to return the 2Gig.  Which I may do and just go with something different.  REading the forums...It seems there are even MORE issues with the Honeywell.  So, I will stay away from that one.  Any other recommendations?  Preferably something fairly inexpensive since I will end up purchasing 3 of them to replace all of my tstats. 

Thx
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: frichter09 on June 05, 2012, 04:37:42 pm
Hey, I got the same issue with this t-stat....
However, they are not recommending that you actually run it on batteries, they are \recommending you pair it with vera while on batteries and then re-connect the c-wire.


Flo
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: nickrwym on June 05, 2012, 05:30:21 pm
The one wire server plug in works well for me. You can go wifi or wired Ethernet

It's not zwave but talks to Vera ok

Nick
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 05, 2012, 06:55:12 pm
Hmmm...I was not aware I could use a Wifi thermostat to communicate to Vera.  That does open up some other possibilities.  Part of my problem could be the fact that I do not have a ton of Z Wave devices and a pretty big house.  So, a wifi enabled thermostat talking to vera would resolve that.  I have wifi coverage everywhere. 
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: garrettwp on June 05, 2012, 10:14:59 pm
The only wifi thermostat that works with Vera is the Filtrete 3M-50. A user in the forum created a plug in to interface with the thermostat.

- Garrett
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: frichter09 on June 05, 2012, 11:20:48 pm
The only wifi thermostat that works with Vera is the Filtrete 3M-50. A user in the forum created a plug in to interface with the thermostat.

- Garrett

Hi Garrett,
correct me if I am wrong but I think the filtrete and the 2GIG are the same....
Flo
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: jwiz on June 05, 2012, 11:41:28 pm
The only wifi thermostat that works with Vera is the Filtrete 3M-50. A user in the forum created a plug in to interface with the thermostat.

- Garrett

Hi Garrett,
correct me if I am wrong but I think the filtrete and the 2GIG are the same....
Flo

Both thermostats are made by Radio Thermostat. The 2GIG CT-30 comes with the u-snap zwave radio and the Filtrete CT-50 comes with the u-snap wifi radio. The Filtrete does have more features than the 2GIG. I am currently running one of each of them and the Filtrete with is a much better thermostat.

John
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: garrettwp on June 06, 2012, 03:02:57 am
I was just stating that the only wifi (supported) thermostat is the filtrete 3m-50 which requires a 3rd party plugin to function. Vera does not support wifi thermostats out of the box.

- Garrett
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: nickrwym on June 06, 2012, 08:45:43 am
The wifi "one wire server" is supported by Chris's plug in as a thermometer. This has 0.1C resolution and a fast update rate unlike some of the commercial units.

It gives me much better results than an Everspring.

I let Vera decide when to turn heat on and off and use it as a thermometer rather than a thermostat.

This makes it easy to have different temperatures and different times of day and to inhibit the house heating when the outside temperature reaches a certain point regardless of the inside temperature.


Nick
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: oTi@ on June 06, 2012, 08:55:40 am
@rodneyat,

Welcome!

Have you considered the Trane's?
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 06, 2012, 10:05:14 am
@rodneyat,

Welcome!

Have you considered the Trane's?

Thanks!  Trane is actually on my short list too.  It was actually at the top of my list until I realized I could use the Filtrete wifi one and still use the Vera.  I think it may be the most overall simple and reliable solution for me.  Since I have good wifi coverage over my entire house.  I think it will work well.    The 1-Wire thing is intriguing but not simple.  With a wife, kids and other family around.  Simple is what I need.  1-wire looks very cool if I really wanted to tinker. 

I may stop by Home Depot later today and pickup a Filtrete and give it a shot. I bought the 2gig from Amazon and already put in the return request for that.  So, I just have to box it up and send it back.  So, tomorrow, I will hook up the CWire and the Filtrete and see how it goes. 
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: frichter09 on June 06, 2012, 10:10:31 am
The only wifi thermostat that works with Vera is the Filtrete 3M-50. A user in the forum created a plug in to interface with the thermostat.

- Garrett

Hi Garrett,
correct me if I am wrong but I think the filtrete and the 2GIG are the same....
Flo

Both thermostats are made by Radio Thermostat. The 2GIG CT-30 comes with the u-snap zwave radio and the Filtrete CT-50 comes with the u-snap wifi radio. The Filtrete does have more features than the 2GIG. I am currently running one of each of them and the Filtrete with is a much better thermostat.

John

What additional features does it have?
If I only had known this before....

Flo
Title: Re: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: jwiz on June 06, 2012, 11:51:35 am
The only wifi thermostat that works with Vera is the Filtrete 3M-50. A user in the forum created a plug in to interface with the thermostat.

- Garrett

Hi Garrett,
correct me if I am wrong but I think the filtrete and the 2GIG are the same....
Flo

Both thermostats are made by Radio Thermostat. The 2GIG CT-30 comes with the u-snap zwave radio and the Filtrete CT-50 comes with the u-snap wifi radio. The Filtrete does have more features than the 2GIG. I am currently running one of each of them and the Filtrete with is a much better thermostat.

John

What additional features does it have?
If I only had known this before....

Flo

The main one for me is the auto mode for auto heat/cool. Also with the plug in Vera displays the temperature with the .5 degree like the thermostat does and not rounded up like the zwave thermostats. You also have the ability to control the tstat with there app for IOS and Android which makes a nice backup if Vera goes down and your away. I know there were a few other features that I just can't think of right now.


John
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: frichter09 on June 06, 2012, 12:41:53 pm
Thanks John!!
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 06, 2012, 01:33:53 pm
You can also upgrade the firmware which you can't do on the CT30 unless you add the wifi module
Title: Re: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: jwiz on June 06, 2012, 01:53:46 pm
You can also upgrade the firmware which you can't do on the CT30 unless you add the wifi module
Yes the firmware is upgradeable.

John
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: DeltaNu1142 on June 06, 2012, 02:39:38 pm
I didn't see wifi on the OP's wish list...  but then again, I didn't see a wish list.

The CA8900 is as cheap as they come, and I don't necessarily know what you're looking for in terms of "reliability" (communication? temperature regulation? accuracy?), but I've been running two of them for the better part of a year.  They are two of the devices I've never had problems with.

They're not attractive, they don't have a ton of physical features, but they work really well & do everything I need them to do via Vera.
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 06, 2012, 05:09:07 pm
I didn't see wifi on the OP's wish list...  but then again, I didn't see a wish list.

The CA8900 is as cheap as they come, and I don't necessarily know what you're looking for in terms of "reliability" (communication? temperature regulation? accuracy?), but I've been running two of them for the better part of a year.  They are two of the devices I've never had problems with.

They're not attractive, they don't have a ton of physical features, but they work really well & do everything I need them to do via Vera.

I don't need a ton of features.  Just something simple and reliable. 

That said, I did pickup a Filtrete at Home Depot today.  It is all up and running now.  Setup was a wiz.  I wish the 2Gig version was that simple.  Anyway, I just installed the plugin and it seems to have been added into Vera now.  I have not done a lot of messing with it yet.  But, it seems to be working fine, at this point.  Hopefully, this will work well and I will buy additional ones to replace my other old thermostats
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: hugheaves on June 11, 2012, 04:35:27 pm
What additional features does it have?
If I only had known this before....

Flo

Other that the ones mentioned by @jwiz, there are a few other features that you get with the 3M-50, that you don't get with some of the other thermostats (including the Z-Wave ones):

1. Display temperature from any Vera supported temperature sensor as a secondary temperature on the thermostat. (hint: even if you don't have a physical temperature sensor, you can still use this to display outside temperature using the Weather plugin)
2. Use any Vera temperature device as the primary temperature sensor for the thermostat - meaning that the thermostat will operate as it it's internal temperature sensor was directly reading the value from the Vera temperature sensor
3. Use thermostat API to display messages / control LED's on the thermostat
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: jwiz on June 11, 2012, 10:53:52 pm


1. Display temperature from any Vera supported temperature sensor as a secondary temperature on the thermostat. (hint: even if you don't have a physical temperature sensor, you can still use this to display outside temperature using the Weather plugin)


Ok this one I did not know about. How do you set that up within your plugin to display the weather plugin temp?

Thanks
John
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: hugheaves on June 12, 2012, 09:24:51 pm
1. Display temperature from any Vera supported temperature sensor as a secondary temperature on the thermostat. (hint: even if you don't have a physical temperature sensor, you can still use this to display outside temperature using the Weather plugin)
Ok this one I did not know about. How do you set that up within your plugin to display the weather plugin temp?

Thanks
John

It's fairly straightforward. Assuming you already have the weather plugin installed:

1. In the Vera console, click on the "wrench" icon for the weather plugin device / temperature (low temp, current temp, etc.) that you'd like to display on your thermostat.
2. Click the settings tab of the weather plugin, and note the device ID # for the plugin
3. Click the "X" to close the weather plugin settings
4. Click on the wrench icon for the thermostat on which you'd like to display the weather plugin temperature
5. Click the advanced tab of the weather plugin, and enter the device ID # from the weather plugin into the "PMATempDevice" field
6. Click the "X" to close the thermostat plugin settings
7. Click the "Save" button in the Vera console to save your settings and restart

Someday I'll actually get around to creating a simple UI to setup these features, but in the meantime that's how you do it.

After that, your 3M-50 thermostat should display the weather temperature in the upper left hand corner of the thermostat (i.e. the PMA)

Hugh
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 14, 2012, 10:34:23 am
Thanks for the info on this Hugh.  I did not know there was a plugin for Google Weather.  Great idea...I actually installed it and I can see all the different devices in UI5.  But entered the device ID (yes the correct one)  in the "PMATempDevice" field and it still did not appear on the screen of the 3M50.  In the upper left corner I still get the time of day.  I even installed a second thermostat yesterday and tried it with that one.  Same result.  Any ideas?  I am sure it is just something I have overlooked.  Thx
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: hugheaves on June 14, 2012, 11:32:42 am
Thanks for the info on this Hugh.  I did not know there was a plugin for Google Weather.  Great idea...I actually installed it and I can see all the different devices in UI5.  But entered the device ID (yes the correct one)  in the "PMATempDevice" field and it still did not appear on the screen of the 3M50.  In the upper left corner I still get the time of day.  I even installed a second thermostat yesterday and tried it with that one.  Same result.  Any ideas?  I am sure it is just something I have overlooked.  Thx

Hmmm, it should just work. (But doesn't every developer always say that :) )

However, as it's obviously not working, let's check a few things:

1. In the "advanced" settings tab for the 3M-50 thermostat, what (if any) are the values of "Model", "FirmwareVersion", "PMAMessage", "PMALine", and "PMASet"? (PMAMessage should contain the current temperature, PMALine and PMASet should both be "1")

2. If you are able to access the logs on your device ( see http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Logs for a "how to" ), execute the following command to view the thermostat activity in the logs:

tail -F /var/log/cmh/LuaUPnP.log | grep RTCOA

and then click the "Reload" button in the Vera UI to restart the processes. If you could PM me the output after it's been running for a few minutes, or just post it here as an attachment, I'll take a look and try to figure out what's going on.
Title: Re: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: DeltaNu1142 on June 14, 2012, 12:14:36 pm
The main one for me is the auto mode for auto heat/cool.
I use two CA8900's which do not have an auto mode.  I get around this with Luup provided by Florin.  It behaves like a virtual auto mode by checking high & low setpoints & setting the mode accordingly.  For $40, these thermostats do everything I need them to.
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 14, 2012, 05:15:22 pm
Thx..I just emailed you the logs.  Actually, one of them started working today but the second one still only displays the time.  Hmmm

Thanks for the info on this Hugh.  I did not know there was a plugin for Google Weather.  Great idea...I actually installed it and I can see all the different devices in UI5.  But entered the device ID (yes the correct one)  in the "PMATempDevice" field and it still did not appear on the screen of the 3M50.  In the upper left corner I still get the time of day.  I even installed a second thermostat yesterday and tried it with that one.  Same result.  Any ideas?  I am sure it is just something I have overlooked.  Thx

Hmmm, it should just work. (But doesn't every developer always say that :) )

However, as it's obviously not working, let's check a few things:

1. In the "advanced" settings tab for the 3M-50 thermostat, what (if any) are the values of "Model", "FirmwareVersion", "PMAMessage", "PMALine", and "PMASet"? (PMAMessage should contain the current temperature, PMALine and PMASet should both be "1")

2. If you are able to access the logs on your device ( see http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/Logs for a "how to" ), execute the following command to view the thermostat activity in the logs:

tail -F /var/log/cmh/LuaUPnP.log | grep RTCOA

and then click the "Reload" button in the Vera UI to restart the processes. If you could PM me the output after it's been running for a few minutes, or just post it here as an attachment, I'll take a look and try to figure out what's going on.
Title: Re: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: Minnies on June 14, 2012, 07:51:20 pm
The main one for me is the auto mode for auto heat/cool.
I use two CA8900's which do not have an auto mode.  I get around this with Luup provided by Florin.  It behaves like a virtual auto mode by checking high & low setpoints & setting the mode accordingly.  For $40, these thermostats do everything I need them to.

Same here until this past Sunday when the thermostat failed. Initially with erratic operation leading to no operation.  Not the communication side of it but with operating the a/c unit.  That $40 thermostat will cost me more the $200 in increased a/c bills for the next 2 months plus the emergency repair service. This is a rental home and I will NOT buy another cheap version. Costly mistake for me.
Title: Re: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: DeltaNu1142 on June 15, 2012, 03:25:23 am
Same here until this past Sunday when the thermostat failed. Initially with erratic operation leading to no operation.  Not the communication side of it but with operating the a/c unit.  That $40 thermostat will cost me more the $200 in increased a/c bills for the next 2 months plus the emergency repair service.
Ooooof.  That's not good.  Care to explain further?  Why does "no operation of a thermostat" result in increased AC bills?  I would think it would result in decreased bills but pretty intolerable living conditions...

The only erratic behavior I've seen so far comes out of Vera, and I have yet to be able to explain it--maybe once every two months, Vera will set the AC cool setpoint of one of the thermostats to 62 degrees.  Booo.  I'm immediately notified of the change, so I just set it back, but it would be nice to know what's going on.
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: Minnies on June 15, 2012, 10:22:48 pm
For a rental I get hit in the pocketbook 2 ways. One, when a renter is present, they now have complete control to set any temp they want. No limitation. With the zwave version I had it set so that a minimum could not be breached. I also had it set up that if the outside doors were open for an extended period when the outside temp was high that the a/c would be turned off.

The second way is when I have no renter it will probably be left in whatever position the last renter left it instead of reverting to an unoccupied level of minimal cooling.

I plan on replacing it with a Trane thermostat. I am hopeful it is better for several shortcomings in addition to the failure itself. First I believe it includes fan control. I had the fan left on for 2 months one time before it was caught. Second is the odd tstat set to a low value thing that happens every once in a while. Even when the house was empty??? The odd behavior that pressing the heat or cool button twice in a row turns the thermostat off. And last the confusing energy savings mode that Vera does not display.

I had been planning on replacing it in 2 months, but now have to pay the price for early failure. And for much more $$ than it saved.
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 15, 2012, 11:05:06 pm
For the short time I have been using the Filtrete. I have been very happy. It's like the best of both worlds for me. Wifi/cloud control but still having visibility in Vera. I'm very pleased. I added a second one this week. And I have a third one I will out in next week once I have time to get in the attic to attach the "c" wire.
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: grybrd on June 16, 2012, 09:33:09 am
@Minnies ... I have been using Tranes for two years using virtual switches for summer vs winter, occupied by us or guest,  with scenes to limit temp settings
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: rodneyat on June 17, 2012, 09:11:48 pm
OK...Too wild.  Today the External Temp started working on my other thermostat today.  I had not changed anything but I happened to walk by and notice it was displaying something other than the time.  Not sure why it is working now.  But, I am not complaining.  I will probably install my 3rd Filtrete tomorrow.  We will see how it goes. 
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: hugheaves on June 18, 2012, 10:33:18 am
Thx..I just emailed you the logs.  Actually, one of them started working today but the second one still only displays the time.  Hmmm

@rodneyat,

Sorry for the late reply. (I've been out of town / offline for a few days!)

I've replied to this issue in the 3M-50 thread, so we don't hijack this thread about most reliable thermostats:

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,9505.msg76961.html#msg76961
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: DeltaNu1142 on June 18, 2012, 12:57:26 pm
For a rental I get hit in the pocketbook 2 ways. One, when a renter is present, they now have complete control to set any temp they want. No limitation. With the zwave version I had it set so that a minimum could not be breached. I also had it set up that if the outside doors were open for an extended period when the outside temp was high that the a/c would be turned off.
Ahh, I see.  So it's not "no operation", it's "lack of remote operation".  Yes, that could get pricey.  I assume the min/max plugin works for all Z-wave thermostats; I know it works for the CA8900.
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: Minnies on June 18, 2012, 09:35:46 pm
Sorry if I did not explain it well. The thermostat failed to control the a/c unit. I had to have maintenance replace it with the standard thermostat which had no external control or monitoring at all. zwave communications worked fine. Luckily I have 2 3 way motion/light/temp sensors so I can observe the temps more or less.

Except for the failure I was planning on replacing it to gain fan control and avoid the confusing energy and toggle on/off features. Neither which would have affected me for my own home. In fact my intent was to replace the rental tstat and move it to my normal house. But that won't happen now.
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: mr crewcab on October 02, 2012, 09:56:15 pm
i just ordered two Honeywell z-wave stats, they have a great reputation as far as the vision pro (no z-wave) is concerned. i cant see theses being a lot different. we have installed probably about 100 of these over the years and i think we had 1 that was intermittant.

I hope i didnt make a bad decision.

Trane has a terrible reputation in the commercial trade as being extremely overpriced and average quality.

I will let you know how they configure and if i have any gliches with them.
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: smilepak on January 08, 2014, 06:44:02 pm
Does this work with VERA?

Honeywell Wi-Fi Smart Thermostat http://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-Wi-Fi-Smart-Thermostat-RTH9580WF/203926327#
Title: Re: Most reliable Thermostat
Post by: garrettwp on January 08, 2014, 11:09:06 pm
Does this work with VERA?

Honeywell Wi-Fi Smart Thermostat http://www.homedepot.com/p/Honeywell-Wi-Fi-Smart-Thermostat-RTH9580WF/203926327#

Did you bother to search?

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php?topic=15558.0

- Garrett