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General => Lighting & Load Control => Topic started by: tomgru on December 21, 2013, 12:45:49 am

Title: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: tomgru on December 21, 2013, 12:45:49 am
this will probably seem like a stupid question, as I can't think of a solution.

But I want a way to be able to turn a lamp on/off locally, but still also have full control via Zwave.  The only way I can think of is to use the button on the zwave module, which unfortunately is behind a dresser. 

Is there some other clever way i'm not thinking of?  Other than add a scene controller for that single lamp and turn it on/off there?

Thanks!
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on December 21, 2013, 09:17:26 am
Many lamp modules have a load sensing feature that turns the lamp module on when the lamp is operated manually. This permits local lamp control while also allowing Vera to control the module remotely. However, if the lamp's switch is off, turning on the lamp module on will not help.

The only way to have complete local control and Z-wave control, as well as Vera having an accurate idea of the lamp's state, is to rewire the lamp using a Microswitch like the Aeon Labs or Fibaro units.

You would need to wire the microswitch into the lamp's power cord and connect the lamp's local switch to the switch connections on the microswitch. See the crude drawing below. Naturally, you would conceal the microswitch somewhere within the lamp.

Edit: For lamps that you do not want to modify with a new switch, you might also be able to use a capacitance switch connected to your microswitch. This way the lamp would have touch sensitive local control and Z-Wave control. I've never implemented this, but I don't see why it would not work.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: BrianLBeaton on December 21, 2013, 09:35:24 am
Z-waver,

How would you extended your approach to a 3-way lamp (off-low-medium-high) that has a rotary switch used to control the 3-way lamp?
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on December 21, 2013, 10:08:33 am
I'd put a standard socket in the lamp and use a dimmer microswitch.

You could leave the socket in place on High and just not use the rotary switch. If you're concerned about someone else using it, you could cut off the knob.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: BrianLBeaton on December 21, 2013, 10:12:44 am
Thanks Z-Waver.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Aura on January 08, 2014, 12:59:36 pm
This is very cool. Any idea whether a simple contact switch would work with the Aeon Smart Energy dim module?

From what I've read about these Aeon devices, it sounds like it's dimmable via zwave  only. Local switch control is limited to on/off. Is that right?
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on January 08, 2014, 02:28:12 pm
From what I've read about these Aeon devices, it sounds like it's dimmable via zwave  only. Local switch control is limited to on/off. Is that right?
No, this is not correct.

The Aeon Labs dimmer module can be dimmed via Z-Wave, but it can also be dimmed by the local switch interface when using momentary switches. You must also change a configuration setting to use this type of momentary switch. See the Micro Smart Dimmer 2E manual (http://aeotec.com/z-wave-in-wall-switches/877-micro-sei-2e-manual-instructions.html)

If you use local bistable(flip flop) switches that do not open when released, then you can only turn the dimmer on or off from the local switch with no dimming.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Aura on January 08, 2014, 03:52:30 pm
Thanks! Looking forward to re-wiring my lamp over the weekend!  Will let y'all know how it goes.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: BulldogLowell on January 08, 2014, 04:31:27 pm
From what I've read about these Aeon devices, it sounds like it's dimmable via zwave  only. Local switch control is limited to on/off. Is that right?
No, this is not correct.

The Aeon Labs dimmer module can be dimmed via Z-Wave, but it can also be dimmed by the local switch interface when using momentary switches. You must also change a configuration setting to use this type of momentary switch. See the Micro Smart Dimmer 2E manual (http://aeotec.com/z-wave-in-wall-switches/877-micro-sei-2e-manual-instructions.html)

If you use local bistable(flip flop) switches that do not open when released, then you can only turn the dimmer on or off from the local switch with no dimming.

Do you think you could you cycle the dimmer with PLEG and change the dimmer to 33%, 66%, 100% and zero with each pulse of the button?.  You need an instant status update dimmer i'm guessing...
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on January 08, 2014, 04:53:36 pm
@Bulldoglowell - The activator switch locally attached to the aeon microswitch acts on the microswitch directly, independently of Vera. So, you would not want to implement your idea with that switch. Technically, you could but the light's behavior will be absolutely bizarre! Flick it On/Off/On/Off/On/Off/On within 3 seconds and PLEG resets it to 66%.

You could implement your scheme with an independent Z-Wave switch or scene controller. For instance, if you had a Leviton Z-Wave switch in the wall, but not directly attached to the lamp, you could create a PLEG that uses the Leviton as a trigger to stair-step through a series of dim levels for the Aeon microswitch such as you describe. A double On tap of the Leviton, within 2 seconds goes to 33%, triple tap goes to 66%, etc.

I'm not really a fan of such a scheme. It will not be intuitive to use for untrained users, something that I strive for. Reliability, well... you know. Also, it would require both an Aeon microswitch and a Leviton scene capable switch or controller, so cost becomes a factor.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: BulldogLowell on January 08, 2014, 07:54:45 pm
Perhaps you can do this very easily if you have a metal lamp.

Try to add this to the lamp and the module should detect the current change when you turn it on.

http://www.1000bulbs.com/product/65499/ELEC-D2203.html?utm_source=SmartFeedPriceGrabber&utm_medium=Shopping&utm_term=ELECD2203&utm_content=ElectricalLampDimmersTouchDimmers&utm_campaign=SmartFeedPriceGrabber&thissku=ELEC777dash777D2203&site=pricegrabber.com


Cheap too!

Thoughts?
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on January 08, 2014, 11:24:55 pm
@Bulldoglowell - The device you linked to is a capacitance dimmer kit. It works well in a basic lamp. Howevere, it is a dimmer.

You cannot use a dimmer to control an Aeon microswitch you can only use a two-state(On/Off) switch whether momentary or bistable, to control an Aeon microswitch.

It may be possible to disassemble this dimmer to remove and utilize the capacitance circuit with a regular relay that then controls the Aeon microswitch.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: wilme2 on January 09, 2014, 12:47:31 pm
I would love a z-wave lamp socket.  Not a module to screw into one, but socket you use to build your own z-wave lamp.
I may go the micro-switch route, but cleaner (to me) if we had an all-in-one socket...
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on January 09, 2014, 05:45:44 pm
@wilme2 - Perhaps you could use the guts from a screw in module fro your custom built lamp. Just remove the case and replace the male E26 base with a couple of wires.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: BulldogLowell on January 09, 2014, 06:43:23 pm
@Bulldoglowell - The device you linked to is a capacitance dimmer kit. It works well in a basic lamp. Howevere, it is a dimmer.

You cannot use a dimmer to control an Aeon microswitch you can only use a two-state(On/Off) switch whether momentary or bistable, to control an Aeon microswitch.

It may be possible to disassemble this dimmer to remove and utilize the capacitance circuit with a regular relay that then controls the Aeon microswitch.

@Z-Waver,  Agreed, but I was thinking using just a plain vanilla GE lamp module and turning on the load sensor (device option 29 set to "1").  All we want to accomplish is that the light can turn on via our vera if it was turned off at the lamp, I think.

I may try to futz with this one if I can find an old lamp with that style dimmer.  It is an interesting problem that I come across from time to time.  I always have to run around turning lights on after a guest leaves.  Kinda the opposite of the old days!
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: gtallan on January 10, 2014, 11:13:15 am
The only way to have complete local control and Z-wave control, as well as Vera having an accurate idea of the lamp's state, is to rewire the lamp using a Microswitch like the Aeon Labs or Fibaro units.

You would need to wire the microswitch into the lamp's power cord and connect the lamp's local switch to the switch connections on the microswitch. See the crude drawing below. Naturally, you would conceal the microswitch somewhere within the lamp.

Another way to do it might be to fabricate some kind of casing for the Aeon (or fibaro?) micro-dimmer, so it could be installed on the cable to the lamp, just like any regular inline dimmer. I wonder how hard it would be to do that... maybe it could just be 3D-printed? It would need some decent cord retention, and a way to accommodate a small momentary switch. Easier still if Aeon would produce such an accessory themselves, though doubtless they'd need to get the whole assembly UL-tested or something.

It's always frustrated me that nothing like this exists for zwave, since I feel that proper local control is essential for table lamps etc. Minimotes etc just don't fit the same function since they tend to float around, go missing, get dead batteries just when you need them, etc. And I want guests to my house to be able to do basic things like turn lights on or off without undergoing training!
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: wilme2 on January 10, 2014, 05:14:02 pm
Another way to do it might be to fabricate some kind of casing for the Aeon (or fibaro?) micro-dimmer, so it could be installed on the cable to the lamp, just like any regular inline dimmer. I wonder how hard it would be to do that... maybe it could just be 3D-printed? It would need some decent cord retention, and a way to accommodate a small momentary switch. Easier still if Aeon would produce such an accessory themselves, though doubtless they'd need to get the whole assembly UL-tested or something.

Radio Shack has various sized "project boxes" that would work.  I used one as part of my garage door relay...    http://www.radioshack.com/family/index.jsp?categoryId=2032276
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: JReays on August 25, 2016, 01:03:27 pm
I really want to tear apart a lamp socket switch module to make it so the turn switch still works. I know it has been awhile since this was talked about but has anyone had any success?
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on August 27, 2016, 08:35:41 am
It works great! The only "issue" is having a lamp with a large enough base(or shade) to properly conceal the module and wiring. Also, now that we have dual switch relays like this Vision In Wall 2 Relay Z-Wave Micro Switch (http://amzn.to/2bOAoUO) you can do lamps with multiple sockets/bulbs.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: tomgru on August 27, 2016, 12:12:04 pm
It works great! The only "issue" is having a lamp with a large enough base(or shade) to properly conceal the module and wiring. Also, now that we have dual switch relays like this Vision In Wall 2 Relay Z-Wave Micro Switch (http://amzn.to/2bOAoUO) you can do lamps with multiple sockets/bulbs.

Did you actually build one?  need pics 😀
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on August 27, 2016, 02:39:29 pm
Perhaps stupidly, I didn't think of taking pictures and now the interesting part is under a glued down layer of felt.

Perhaps some time when I've got time to take it apart and re-glue the base.
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: tomgru on August 28, 2016, 12:36:04 pm
Perhaps stupidly, I didn't think of taking pictures and now the interesting part is under a glued down layer of felt.

Perhaps some time when I've got time to take it apart and re-glue the base.

Just a normal lamp?
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: Z-Waver on August 28, 2016, 03:21:24 pm
Just a lamp? JUST A LAMP? Does Mrs. Z-Waver need to come over there and explain the difference between "just a lamp" and this extremely rare and fine lighting fixture with faux antique burnishing and irreplaceable one of a kind shade?



But yea, just a lamp. Like this:
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: tomgru on August 29, 2016, 09:51:04 am
LOL
Title: Re: Independent lamp control along with lamp module
Post by: ndoggac on November 03, 2016, 12:25:21 am
Guide on DIY solution
https://www.reddit.com/r/homeautomation/comments/59035c/diy_zwave_lamp_module_w_local_control/ (https://www.reddit.com/r/homeautomation/comments/59035c/diy_zwave_lamp_module_w_local_control/)