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General => Lighting & Load Control => Topic started by: AgileHumor on February 05, 2014, 03:26:13 am

Title: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 05, 2014, 03:26:13 am
Had the same issue with the "let vera mange lights" option and unchecked it the "Scenes" tab of the controller.

I added the scene controller button (scene 1 or 2) in the advanced tab to turn the light on (1) or light off (0).

Edit: Split off from this topic (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,17251.msg133497.html#msg133497).
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 05, 2014, 10:28:51 am
@AgileHumor - I'm confused. Are you saying that you tried the method laid out by @sgruby and it works? Are you further saying that the Leviton switch does not become unstable after you operate the loads directly from Vera's GUI?

In my previous testing all was well, until I operated the loads from Vera's GUI. At that point the LEDs failed to update and the switch became unstable.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 05, 2014, 10:47:33 am
Well, I don't know if it was unstable.  It just wasn't predictable and needed the double tap 1/3 of the time to turn off the light...until I went to manual lighting mode.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 05, 2014, 10:59:46 am
Well, I don't know if it was unstable.  It just wasn't predictable and needed the double tap 1/3 of the time to turn off the light...until I went to manual lighting mode.
I'm still confused. What do you mean by "manual lighting mode"? Are you using the method laid out by @sgruby?
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 05, 2014, 12:21:51 pm
No, I'm sorry I was giving you how I had it setup reliably and with low latency.

Default: VRCS2 is in default mode.  Load turns on and off with no delay.  This is ereased never to return once you include it with Vera.  The only way to return to this is to reset it IME, YMMV.
After Inclusion:  You must use scenes and MANUAL 'set light" scene controller mode to make it snappy.  You must include it within 3ft of Vera or you won't get the 2 appliance modules (individual load switches) even though you get the scene controller over longer distances.

I'm not using associations.  There is no delay in using scenes in this setup.

Video:
http://sdrv.ms/1gMHUgb
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 05, 2014, 12:49:22 pm
I think I understand now. Sorry for being thick.

If I'm not mistaken, what you are saying is that you used this configuration method (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,13251.0.html). To great success. This is the method that has given me the most success so far, as well. But I still see a longer delay than your video for updating the LEDs. My loads react as fast as yours, but the LEDs are not as quick. But that may be due to different routing distances between yours and mine.

You you used a different technique, perhaps you'd be kind enough to do a detailed instruction write up for us. Your video certainly shows the behavior as it should be and as I would like it to be.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 05, 2014, 12:54:50 pm
@AgileHumor,

I read your posts to mean that you included it the standard way, set it up with scenes the standard way, but your only change was to disable Vera having control of the LEDs (on the Scenes tab of the controller).

Do the LEDs update when you control the loads from Vera?
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 05, 2014, 01:32:41 pm
I've gotten some screenshots attached.

Once included, you should start with 3 devices:
* Scene Controller
* 2 x Appliance Modules (on/off switches) (Closet Left and Right in my case)

You also should have 4 scenes:
* Button 1 On and Off
* Button 1 On and Off

@OTI, I would only run the SCENES...Not the Device.  If you need a device, you may need a virtual switch and triggers (device virtual switch 1 on fires scene button 1 on) if you want the LED's in sync.

Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 05, 2014, 01:54:39 pm
Thanks for the clarification.

I added the scene controller button (scene 1 or 2) in the advanced tab to turn the light on (1) or light off (0).
Ah! To turn the LED for that button on or off.

Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 05, 2014, 02:00:44 pm
 I just tested @AgileHumor's method and it is my fastest configuration yet. My LEDs are still slower to respond than what he shows in his video, but it is plenty fast enough and I have no complaints.

THANKS @AgileHumor!
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 06, 2014, 07:19:12 am
How much faster would you say it is, compared to letting Vera auto-update the LEDs?

(Personally, I don't mind the short delay, as I don't normally toggle switches that quickly.)

@AgileHumor,
I put this on a separate thread (with a reference to where it came from in the initial post).
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 06, 2014, 09:45:40 am
Have a look at AgileHumor's video (http://sdrv.ms/1gMHUgb). My present response time is a few milliseconds slower that the video. But, it responds much more consistently.

My previous various configuration attempts of this controller were always at least 500 milliseconds slower than this to update the LED, and some days(suboptimal routes) it might pause for a second or two. Repeated cycling of the switch could also cause a several second blocking state. With this new configuration, I am able to cycle On/Off as often as I like and I have yet(after only two days) to see a blocking state of more than 500 milliseconds.

The only downside with this configuration, for me, is the total dependence on Vera. I strive to make as much as possible independent of Vera.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 06, 2014, 10:51:26 am
My Vera is only about 20 ft away, so it may be quicker as I have no hops.

What is your autoroute in the advanced tab of the scene controller?

Mine is:
0-9,26-13,37-15,32-15

This means it will try this route first:
0=Direct to Vera Node # (no relay through other nodes)
9=Signal Strength

If the first router direct route fails (0-9), it will then move to 26-13 and try to relay through node #26 which has a signal strength of 13.

PS - 'Signal strength' is the non-techie term for 'metric' or 'route cost'. 
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 06, 2014, 11:38:34 am
@AgileHumor - I understand the routing. My VRCS2 is one hop away and when I allow Vera to recalculate the routing(heals) it doesn't always choose the best one. For this reason, this switch has been assigned a manual route that is indeed the optimal route.

Using your configuration method for the VRCS2 my LEDs now update very quickly, though still a couple of milliseconds slower than your zero-hop setup and video. Even so, it is now not more than one second to do a complete cycle On/update/Off/update. I'm very pleased with this.

I stated in the previous post that this configuration was dependent on Vera. But I have found that the local loads are not dependent on Vera. The local loads continue to work, even with Vera turned off. This is great! The other devices in the scene, which now lack associations, do not work without Vera, naturally.

Of the two or three previous configuration methods I have tried in the past, this one is by far the best.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 06, 2014, 12:07:45 pm
Really, so it works with the Vera off?  Does the scene light still work too?

I'm assuming you have "Use Vera Routing turned off"?

PS - I assumed you knew the details of Z-Wave routing based on the username :)  Just trying to help the next person whom didn't know how the routing worked. 
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 06, 2014, 03:07:16 pm
Really, so it works with the Vera off?  Does the scene light still work too?
My local load switches and my scene light changes, with Vera off! I didn't expect that, but I'm very glad for it.

Quote
I'm assuming you have "Use Vera Routing turned off"?
No. "Use Vera routing" is checked. I generally have better results with this and I prefer to maintain defaults whenever possible. However, due to Vera automatically choosing a flaky route over the optimal one, I have a manual route set on the VRCS2 that overrides the autoroutes.
Wrench -> Device Options -> Manual Z-Wave route
or
Wrench -> Advanced Settings -> manual route
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 06, 2014, 03:43:16 pm
I'll need to test that when I get home.  That's pretty neat Vera can translate that to a local "program" and run independently. 
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 07, 2014, 11:29:21 am
My local load switches and my scene light changes, with Vera off!
Did you by any chance power-cycle the VRCS2 after Vera was off?
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 07, 2014, 01:47:36 pm
My local load switches and my scene light changes, with Vera off!
Did you by any chance power-cycle the VRCS2 after Vera was off?
After your post I:

Powered off Vera.
Cycled the breaker for the VRCS2.
Pressed a button on the VRCS2.
   
Results: The local load turns on and the LED indicator comes on immediately. Three to four seconds later, the LED blinks Off and On three or four times and then remains on. Pushing the bitton again, the local load turns off immediately and the LED turns off within a second or so. The switch, LEDs, and local loads, continue to operate normally with the additional LED blinking.

Powering the Vera back on, everything operates as described in previous posts.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 07, 2014, 02:05:25 pm
OK. And continue in that state by powering off Vera again, then try the buttons on the VRCS2. Do the LEDs update?
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 07, 2014, 02:05:48 pm
z-waver, i think it blinks until it talks to all the devices.  It seems like all the logic works with the local load/light, but it blinks while trying to update the Vera device (which is unavailable)...and then times out in 4-5 seconds.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 07, 2014, 02:19:24 pm
OK. And continue in that state by powering off Vera again, then try the buttons on the VRCS2. Do the LEDs update?
Unplugging Vera again(without cycling the breaker) the switches and local loads continue to work as desired. LED blinking does occur while Vera is off. The only thing I'm missing while Vera is off, is other devices in the scene that are not directly associated with the VRCS2, which is as it should be.

Take a backup and give it a try. Two positive results alone are not enough to confirm that this is the best way.

z-waver, i think it blinks until it talks to all the devices.  It seems like all the logic works with the local load/light, but it blinks while trying to update the Vera device (which is unavailable)...and then times out in 4-5 seconds.
This seems to be the case.



Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 07, 2014, 08:35:19 pm
@Z-Waver, @AgileHumor,

Interesting. So, if I read that right, @Z-Waver's comment that it's working even with Vera off, really means that there is some blinking activity, but then the LED state settles where one would expect it? And @AgileHumor is seeing the same thing?

The blinking is expected, somewhat. But that the final state actually reflects the expected state, is surprising.

Vera with 1.5.622, right?

@AgileHumor, in your scene, are you just switching the local load, or other (non-Leviton) stuff too?

@Z-Waver, is the behavior you are seeing any different from what you had before, in terms of the blinking and the final state (i.e. not the speed, that's clear)?
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 07, 2014, 10:37:01 pm
I'm only switching the local load on that video (the dual closet lights) in my example.

I have 2 other VRCS2 i use to control Hue lights on the patio (top button) and BY floodlights (bottom button)...no local load.  Sadly, it wouldn't be a good test case as I have some Luup code tying two bridged Vera's.


Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 08, 2014, 09:37:34 am
Interesting. So, if I read that right, @Z-Waver's comment that it's working even with Vera off, really means that there is some blinking activity, but then the LED state settles where one would expect it? And @AgileHumor is seeing the same thing?

The blinking is expected, somewhat. But that the final state actually reflects the expected state, is surprising.

Vera with 1.5.622, right?

@AgileHumor, in your scene, are you just switching the local load, or other (non-Leviton) stuff too?
Yes,  your reading is correct. The LED switches appropriately immediately. But, a moment or two later is proceeds to blink several times and then finally settles back to the correct indication. Yes, it is Vera 1.5.622.

My scenes switch the local load as well as other non-Leviton devices. Naturally, switching the non-Leviton devices in the scene only works when Vera is On. It is, after all, a Vera scene.

Quote
@Z-Waver, is the behavior you are seeing any different from what you had before, in terms of the blinking and the final state (i.e. not the speed, that's clear)?
Frankly, I don't remember what the "Vera-free" blinking was like when I used direct associations. That information might be in one of my old posts, but I don't know. Vera-free operation wasn't something that I tested very much since, even with Vera, the operation was sometimes imperfect and that was my focus. What I do remember of previous Vera-free operation is that the local and other associated nodes would switch but it would enter a blocking state, where the switch would not operate for at least a short time, and occasionally it would block to the point of requiring double taps.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: mda on February 08, 2014, 05:25:42 pm
I also just tried @AgileHumor's approach and it seems to be working better than anything else worked ever :) Brilliant !

I will keep my eye on it and see if it survives my nightly heal which includes luup and unix restarts (MCV support is months into debugging that bit of fun with no solution yet, but that's another story).
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 09, 2014, 12:50:52 pm
I'm only switching the local load on that video (the dual closet lights) in my example.
Thanks.

Yes,  your reading is correct. The LED switches appropriately immediately. But, a moment or two later is proceeds to blink several times and then finally settles back to the correct indication.
OK, thanks.
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 09, 2014, 12:53:26 pm
I also just tried @AgileHumor's approach and it seems to be working better than anything else worked ever
Just the speed of the LED updates, or also the accuracy?
Title: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: mda on February 09, 2014, 01:01:41 pm
Both the speed of LED updates and response consistency ( so far it has not become unresponsive or required a double tap - it has been working with one tap to turn on and one tap to turn off ). I will monitor to see if the goodness holds up.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 09, 2014, 01:06:46 pm
I've gotten some screenshots attached.
Bypassing Vera's scene logic and triggering an LED update off of the scene button seems reasonable when the button is just controlling the local load (as in your dual closet light example), given that scene controller and local load are the same device, and cuts out (at a minimum) the 'slow' instant status updates.

It appears it can lead to inconsistencies in Vera's view of the state of the scene, but that may or may not be important to you. (i.e. Some control points will show the state of scene.)

A more universal application could be to also leave the LEDs under Vera control, and split off the 'manual' LED updates into separate scenes (to assure scene state consistency).

This would allow on/off buttons in the GUI / control points to work, other devices to be included, and proper LED updates, even when devices' states are changed through other controllers and local state changes (but with the usual delay).
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 09, 2014, 01:33:44 pm
I've taken to manual updates on almost all my Leviton Scene outlets.

Therefore, when I do a bedtime scene for example, I also need to update each LED.

It does require duplicating the same LED control in the advance tab many times (i have 3 x 4Way Scenes and 3 x 2Way Leviton scenes = 18 lines in the advanced tab) to ensure everything stays consistent to the device state.

Screenshot attached...but it only covers 1/8 of the web page views.  Tried a few full page screenshot extensions but none work with Vera HTML for some reason.

Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: oTi@ on February 10, 2014, 11:42:06 am
Wow!

And you did this because the LEDs weren't properly updating when controlled by Vera automatically; correct?
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: Z-Waver on February 10, 2014, 11:59:53 am
Rather than duplicate LED commands in every scene, would it not be easier to have one scene that controls the load and LED and then have your other scenes run that one scene when needed?

luup.call_action("urn:micasaverde-com:serviceId:HomeAutomationGateway1", "RunScene", {SceneNum = "5"}, 0)
Title: Re: Faster LED updates on VRCS2
Post by: AgileHumor on February 10, 2014, 12:37:06 pm
That would require a two scenes per scene button (detect on, switch LED on)...or 48 scenes (cuz i suck at Pleg) for 24 in wall scene buttons.  I use the 4 x 4Way Leviton scenes panels in the Master Bath, Master Bed, Living Room, and Entry that change the room lighting (with Hue bulbs) and arm/disarm motion sensors. 3 x 2Way I use for the patio doors and closets.

For each scene (1-4) i just need to add the 4 extra lines for that room's LED reliably. 

I already have for every room int he room use this common logic:
Day Sync On (triggered via armed motion, luup filtered for day...or manual switch on)
Night Sync On (triggered via armed motion, luup filtered for night...or manual switch on)
Sync Off - Shuts off all lights of Day or Night (or alt scenes 2-4)

For rooms with more a scene controller,  I also add:
Scene 2 On
Scene 3 On
Scene 4 On

This means for a room with a scene controller I typically need to manage 6 scenes above, adding 4 buttons in the advanced tab set to set the LED's per scene.

You only need to add all 24 lines in the advanced tab when you do a whole house scene (I have 4 for example, Weekday/Weekend Wakeup Scene, Sunset, and Bedtime).