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General => Lighting & Load Control => Topic started by: hek on April 22, 2014, 04:25:38 am

Title: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: hek on April 22, 2014, 04:25:38 am
-REMOVED-

Hmm .. I got 25+ of these in my walls. Really hope they will be able to make them more secure.
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: mikee123 on April 22, 2014, 04:49:42 am
That is shocking.
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: henno on April 22, 2014, 07:17:12 am
My English isn't very good but when I read the CE report I get the impression that it's only the wall plug (F-101) that fails to conform to standards. So, the relays/dimmers isn't tested.
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: akbooer on April 22, 2014, 07:18:53 am
My English isn't very good but when I read the CE report I get the impression that it's only the wall plug (F-101) that fails to conform to standards. So, the relays/dimmers isn't tested.
Yes, that's my understanding too.
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: hek on April 22, 2014, 07:24:28 am
When I posted a question on fibaros forum it was removed after 2 minutes without any comment. Really strange behavior.
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: Gjones on April 22, 2014, 07:39:29 am
Worrying as I have about 10 and was planning on more. I had one of my dimmer modules melt due to overheating and stopped working. I thought it was just a faulty unit. Luckily wasn't as bad as the one in the picture.
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: hek on April 22, 2014, 08:35:22 am
There is new rumors on a Swedish forum that says this is a "fake" report to discredit Fibaro.
But why Fibaro tries to censor posts on their forum instead of responding to these allegations beats me.

I'll post updates here if I get any.
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: hek on April 22, 2014, 10:19:02 am
Ok, seems to be two separate stories going on here.

1. Fibaro will withdraw stocked Wall Plugs from their resellers due to some problem (unclear what). Sold items will not be called back.

2. Someone has created a fake CE report and Fibaro is evidently preparing to sue the person who created the report.

All info comes from this (Swedish) forum and the swedish general agent.
http://www.zwaveforum.se/viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4697

(I will remove the link above to minimize spreading of the fake report)
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: Vodden on April 22, 2014, 10:50:15 am
This would definitely be a cause for concern  :o

I found this a very intriguing post and more so the article that it links to even though I don't have any Fibaro products or plan to have any. 

There are a few things that I noticed and researched after reading this, only because I am a curious nerd. 

REMOVED

EDIT: I guess I took too long to write that extremely wordy post, removed the irrelevant bits as @hek has already addressed the fake report.  I do, however, want to keep the part about the 'phony' CE markings in the post.

1. I noticed is that the instructions for affixing a CE marking are very easy to find.  I would have no problem going to the printer and getting 'official' CE markings put on everything and anything.  The specs are everywhere. 

2. I also found with a quick search that there is a 'phony' CE marking that is spaced incorrectly.  The plug in module appears to have the correct marking, but upon inspection of the crispy wall switch, it has the wrong marking affixed!!!  I Googled the Fibaro wall switch images and it appears that all of the pics I can find of this device have the 'phony' marking!!!  That may be a problem.

3. There is no easy way of checking a CE certification, as no certification number is affixed to the product.  Now, I'm not in the EU or UK, but I looked around and found various devices with CE markings (one with the phony one), but I could not find the CE number on any of them.  FCC ID...Everywhere.  AND, if you want to check an FCC ID, just Google FCC ID and it takes you straight to the web page where you can enter the ID number and check it out. 

So, the markings on the wall switches appear to be incorrect.  I would say that if you are considering buying them, you may want to hold off.  If you already have them, you may want to buy extra fire extinguishers.


 
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: hek on April 22, 2014, 12:34:30 pm
Fibaros official statement:

http://forum.fibaro.com/viewtopic.php?t=4189
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: alittleconcerned on April 25, 2014, 05:37:50 am
Writing this from a throw-away account seeing that Fibaro are seemingly talking legal action against people who disagree with them :(

Their official report concerns me and doesn't leave me satisfied. From that forum link:

Quote
1) Alleged report do not have any legal signatures that would proof the legality of the source, thus it may be questionable that Fibaro ? Wall ? Plug Z-wave ? Safety ? Quality ? Report was created by any known official certification laboratory and is threated as a fake document.

2) Alleged report embody photographic materials of broken device (Fibaro Relay Switch) not related with the report subject. It may be questionable if these devices was broken in the use intended by the manufacture and may indicate deliberate destruction.

Neither of these are denials... they step around the issue. Things "may be questionable" is used twice. May be questionable. That's not a denial. That's legal jargon that lawyers and politicians use. It's a non-denial denial... and it is based on an untruth. It states that it "doesn't have a legal signature" yet the cover letter has a signature... signatures are legal. And above the signature is the persons name. Okay, that doesn't identify the name of the company that did the report but the serial probably does. "SHT201311-TYC" not sure about SHT but thats followed by YEAR MONTH and TYC. Type TYC into google with "z-wave tyc" and auto correct tells you this report was probably done for either a concerned Fibaro user (first link) or a company called Tyco.
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: alittleconcerned on April 28, 2014, 10:18:31 am
Now the Swedish government's electrical safety board has printed their statement on why they're banning sales of the Fibaro wall plug. They're not forcing a recall but recommending people return it under warranty.

The reason for the recall? Safety issues. Would that be the same issues of safety the CE report calls into question?

The Swedish safety board's report is at:

http://www.elsakerhetsverket.se/sv/Produktsakerhet/Forsaljningsforbud/Skarvuttag-med-glapp/

Quote
Skarvuttagets dispensing portion and plug meet requirements without departing from the dimension sheets available . This means that there is a risk of poor contact and overheating that can lead to fire. Plug portion is too large and besides the risk of bad contact can be detrimental to the socket it is connected to . The terminal portion is too small and may similarly damage the products connected to the joint socket. ?versp?nnigsprov made ​​on joint socket and it did not pass the requirements without flashover occurred . Isolation distances within the splice connector , in other words, how tightly the components sitting , is too weak for a time. This may also contribute to leakage current and flashover occurs. The Electrical Safety Authority has approved a sales ban and withdrawa

The way I read that, the size is so small that the device you plug into it could come in contact with the inside of the Fibaro Small Plug. This could damage products and cause a current leak (not sure if that's a way of saying an electric shock?) Just like the CE report, this official report also says that overheating leading to a fire is very possible.

It doesn't seem that the CE report is a fake given it says the same thing as an official government body.  :'( :'( :'(
Title: Re: Fibaro relays/dimmer/wall plug might be dangerous
Post by: Vodden on April 28, 2014, 01:14:13 pm
This could damage products and cause a current leak (not sure if that's a way of saying an electric shock?) Just like the CE report, this official report also says that overheating leading to a fire is very possible.

I would 'guess' that current leak = short circuit