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General => Temperature Monitoring & HVAC Control => Topic started by: GoingGreen on May 07, 2014, 10:50:14 am

Title: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 07, 2014, 10:50:14 am
 I am in the process of installing the Trane TZEMT400BB32MAA thermostat and have a question. I followed the instructions that came with the device and all was well until I got to Step 12. Here is my current situation.

I have a Trane heat pump, model 4TEC 3F4BB 1000AA, that is being controlled by a Braeburn model 5000, 5-2 programmable thermostat.

Reviewing the documentation for the Braeburn and the Trane models I find some inconsistencies that I must resolve. The Braeburn quick wiring terminal block has eight connections:

RC RH B O Y W G C

The corresponding Trane quick wiring terminal block also has eight connections:

24RC G Y1 Y2   24C 24RH W1 W2

The Braeburn wiring has a strap between RC and RH. There are five conductors coming through the wall. These are red, blue, yellow, white and green. Per instructions, these are now tagged according to the Braeburn connectors they are attached to as follows:

RH O Y W G

My question is do I need to strap any points on the Trane connector block as was done on the Braeburn thermostat? Perhaps the RC to RH strap.

In step 12, of the installation instructions a note directs:

"A wire must be connected to "24C" to power the thermostat".

There is no 24C terminal or wiring on the Braeburn, presumably because it uses two AA batteries to run. So I am left with the question of exactly which wire to connect to 24C on the Trane thermostat. Step 12 also cautions against improper wiring which can damage equipment.

I need clarification of the Trane installation instructions. Although the heat pump seems to have been working well for many months I want to insure the installation of the new Trane thermostat will be correct and nothing gets damaged, including my ego.

Your help is appreciated. I sent an email to a local Trane office, but so far have not received a reply. Frankly I get the impression Trane is not eager to deal directly with users of their products. Does anyone else feel this way?

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 07, 2014, 11:17:19 am
My question is do I need to strap any points on the Trane connector block as was done on the Braeburn thermostat? Perhaps the RC to RH strap.
The trane thermostat already has a built in jumper between RC and RH it talks about it in the instructions and its actually located on the backside of the thermostat (on the circut board in the lower right corner if I remember) its not on the wiring panel that's screwed to the wall. If you don't want that you have to cut the jumper, but it's there from the factory.


"A wire must be connected to "24C" to power the thermostat".

There is no 24C terminal or wiring on the Braeburn, presumably because it uses two AA batteries to run. So I am left with the question of exactly which wire to connect to 24C on the Trane thermostat. Step 12 also cautions against improper wiring which can damage equipment.

not haveing the 24C or common, is quiet common........ (see what I did there, LOL) Since these need constant power and ground (common) to power them and most other don't. In my application I had enough wires in the wall (few empty) but I had to connect one on the furnace or air handler side to the common. Youll see somewhere in or on the airhandler (or in the instructions mounted somehwere on it) there is a 120 volt 2 wire input that goes threw a transformer and has 2 wires comming off them. One if the 24v power wires are going to the RC/RH and the other is the common that you need to get back to the 24C. This wire will already be heading out to your heatpump or ac outside but you now need to splice it to your thermostat too. 

Again for me this just ment going to the airhandler and connecting a wire that was unsed before to both the right spot in the airhandler and the thermostat. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: dzmiller on May 07, 2014, 12:00:51 pm
You're going to have to be sure you handle the reversing valve correctly on the new thermostat (the 'O' wire). Do you have aux heat? You should be able to find a wiring diagram that matches your system.
The batteries on the existing thermostat are likely for backup of the settings, not to run the thermostat. No getting around having a common wire on zwave thermostats. You either going to have to wire it in or not use the Trane (which I believe can not run on batteries).
My remotec thermostats ran on batteries until I could wire a common. But it was designed with that option.
The lack of a common in thermostat wiring is the usual way thermostats seemed to be wired, at least in the U.S.
Trane expects you to use a service call from a Trane dealer if you have problems. Considering you have a heat pump, paying someone to install it right might be the best approach.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 07, 2014, 12:07:03 pm
You're going to have to be sure you handle the reversing valve correctly on the new thermostat (the 'O' wire). Do you have aux heat? You should be able to find a wiring diagram that matches your system.
The batteries on the existing thermostat are likely for backup of the settings, not to run the thermostat. No getting around having a common wire on zwave thermostats. You either going to have to wire it in or not use the Trane (which I believe can not run on batteries).
My remotec thermostats ran on batteries until I could wire a common. But it was designed with that option.
The lack of a common in thermostat wiring is the usual way thermostats seemed to be wired, at least in the U.S.
Trane expects you to use a service call from a Trane dealer if you have problems. Considering you have a heat pump, paying someone to install it right might be the best approach.

The heat pump shouldn't be a problem as everything matches from one thermostate to the next minus the common. Only other thing after is you need to get into the secret menu (lol) to set the right setting for heat pump and such but that also isn't hard.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: dzmiller on May 07, 2014, 01:02:14 pm
Did he just leave off the orange in his wiring chart?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 07, 2014, 01:53:08 pm
Did he just leave off the orange in his wiring chart?

I don't see where it says he did.... The "O" doesn't necessary have to be orange either. But the old and new thermostats wiring is the same except for the 24C which the old thermostat doesn't have.  Jumpers are already in place

The settings are different tho, but he hasn't got to that and it's worded out so I don't see it begin a big problem. You just need to tell it what you have hooked up.

I have 7 Trane tzemt500's and two of them (in a vacation house) replace Braeburn 3000's. My airhandlers were in the attic both of them (2 separate heat pump/ac only systems in this Arizona house) only problem is I needed to add the 24C wire.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 07, 2014, 02:10:35 pm
Thanks to all for the information. Unfortunately, I cannot confidentially interpret all the questions because I lack the technical knowledge to do so. At this point I think it is best I get an expert. In the past, I did contact an HVAC technician but he said he would not install the thermostat for me. I don't recall exactly what his reasons were, but that was his policy.

I live in Glendale AZ, close to downtown Phoenix. If anyone can suggest a more open minded tech to call I would be grateful. You may be wondering why I don't call the contractor that installed my system, but I did not a have good experience back then. Perhaps I should give them another shot. I am retired, living on social security and this is why I attempt to do as much work myself as possible.

I can go ahead and kill power to the system and remove the wiring to the Braeburn connectors, which like I say are all tagged. Then I can dismount the Braeburn wall bracket, attach the Trane wall bracket and pull the cable bundle through the bracket.

Then the technician can make the final wiring connections as applicable to my installation. I think this is the safest way for me to proceed assuming I can locate an agreeable technician.  Writing to the forum helps me clarify my thinking and I receive good advice and don't feel quite so lost. Thanks to all.

While I was composing this dzmiller and integlikewhoa were responding to my original post. The "O" conductor is actually blue. Still not clear on the concept of the 24C conductor and now questioning how to "tell it what you have hooked up".

Programming the thermostat is yet to be surmounted.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 07, 2014, 03:37:15 pm
While I was composing this dzmiller and integlikewhoa were responding to my original post. The "O" conductor is actually blue. Still not clear on the concept of the 24C conductor and now questioning how to "tell it what you have hooked up".

Programming the thermostat is yet to be surmounted.

That's completely understandable and we are here to help, not get you into something you can't get out of.

24C is going to be the hardest part of this wiring. Do you even have any unused wires in the wiring? You said you have 5 conductors coming threw the wall. Is all of these 5 currently hooked up? If they are then your going to have a bigger problem as you'll need a 6th to connect the 24C (24v common) to on each end.

To try and explain it a little better. A normal light switch only has a hot wire comming in, then a wire comming out with a switched hot either on or off depending on the switch. I light bulb has a this wire plus a common wire that's hooked up permanently.  The a/c is the same way but with 24v's instead of 110v.

Your old thermostat only had 24v power comming in and then going out on different wires to kick on the a/c, heater or fan. Each of those devices already had a constant 24v common going to them and just needed the power side to complete the circut. Well this z-wave thermostat now needs a constant common just like the rest of the devices so it can power its self up all the time.  So you need an extra wire that you don't currently have going to it. Most cases you have a 5 or 7 strand conductor running to the thermostats with a few unused wires since not every house uses the full amount depending on systems.

Let us know how many wires you have there is some aftermarket add a wire kits that might work if running a new wire is an issue.
http://www.amazon.com/Venstar-Add-A-Wire-Wire-Adapter/product-reviews/B0013LVDQA/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 07, 2014, 04:46:44 pm

Let us know how many wires you have there is some aftermarket add a wire kits that might work if running a new wire is an issue.
http://www.amazon.com/Venstar-Add-A-Wire-Wire-Adapter/product-reviews/B0013LVDQA/ref=dpx_acr_txt?showViewpoints=1

So far as I can see the cable running from the air handler to the thermostat only has five wires, unless one is clipped back where I cannot see it. I'll have to shut off the circuit breaker and pull the cable out a ways from the wall.

The air handler is in a small space that used to hold the gas furnace. Only a few inches separate the space between the air handler and the thermostat.

All five wires are currently connected to the Braeburn quick wiring block (see opening post).

If I understand what you are saying i actually need six wires for the Trane. Is that correct? The device you suggest is meant to overcome a wiring problem that could extend many feet, which is not my situation. It would be less expensive to simply replace the existing cable with one that has the needed conductors.

This entails rewiring the air handler end of the connections. And that is yet another hurdle, but I have not looked at that so maybe it is not as bad as I imagine. If all the connections go to a single connecting block it should not be difficult to replace the cable.

I guess my next step is to investigate the air handler. BTW I did check on the contractor that installed my system and found they were out of business. Recalling some of the details of that installation, I do remember that I insisted they take out the thermostat they originally installed and supply a programmable model. Which they did. It is not a bad unit, but my issue is the difficulty I have using it because the display is so tiny and the steps to program it are tedious. With the Trane I will be able to make changes at the computer or even using my Nexus 7 IdeaPad anywhere in the house. I also plan on incorporating a near field sensor in a location where I can switch the AC off when I go out of the house. I assume I will have a Home and an Away scene. Details of this remain to be worked out.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 07, 2014, 05:10:12 pm

So far as I can see the cable running from the air handler to the thermostat only has five wires, unless one is clipped back where I cannot see it. I'll have to shut off the circuit breaker and pull the cable out a ways from the wall.

The air handler is in a small space that used to hold the gas furnace. Only a few inches separate the space between the air handler and the thermostat.

All five wires are currently connected to the Braeburn quick wiring block (see opening post).

If I understand what you are saying i actually need six wires for the Trane. Is that correct? The device you suggest is meant to overcome a wiring problem that could extend many feet, which is not my situation. It would be less expensive to simply replace the existing cable with one that has the needed conductors.

This entails rewiring the air handler end of the connections. And that is yet another hurdle, but I have not looked at that so maybe it is not as bad as I imagine. If all the connections go to a single connecting block it should not be difficult to replace the cable.

I guess my next step is to investigate the air handler. BTW I did check on the contractor that installed my system and found they were out of business. Recalling some of the details of that installation, I do remember that I insisted they take out the thermostat they originally installed and supply a programmable model. Which they did. It is not a bad unit, but my issue is the difficulty I have using it because the display is so tiny and the steps to program it are tedious. With the Trane I will be able to make changes at the computer or even using my Nexus 7 IdeaPad anywhere in the house. I also plan on incorporating a near field sensor in a location where I can switch the AC off when I go out of the house. I assume I will have a Home and an Away scene. Details of this remain to be worked out.

Yes you need a 6th wire and yes if your talking other side of wall is a the thermostate then you got it easy. Some of us have air handlers/ heaters in attic of 2 story house and thermostat could be 1st floor on the other side of house. To not make anything harder then it already is you don't even have to replace all the wires that are there, just get yourself a few feet of thermostat wire 2 conductor or what ever and just run it next to the old and use 1 wire out of it.

The thermostat wires should go back into the airhandler and with a few pictures or even the model of that unit we can identify the 24C, or common wire that needs to be connected. The 24C or common wire will already be in use atleast going to the outdoor A/C unit.  We will have to unwire nut it and add this wire to this connection also.

Most air handlers if not all will have a wiring diagram or instructions printed on the inside or outside of the door.  That is if its not 20 years old and ripped off by now.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 08, 2014, 04:31:41 am
Ok, things are starting to clarify and my confidence is building. Next step seems to be to pin down the wiring inside the air handler. You are right it would be easier to just leave the existing wires as they are installed on the air handler side and add a single conductor for the common to 24c on the thermostat. 

The manufactured date of the air handler is 11/2010. Model was documented in my opening post. I can send a photo if you think that would be helpful.

I don't know how to answer the question about "aux heat". How would I determine if I have that?

Looking ahead, you allude to a "secret" menu. That has me curious. Could you elaborate about this?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 08, 2014, 04:48:47 am
Ok, things are starting to clarify and my confidence is building. Next step seems to be to pin down the wiring inside the air handler. You are right it would be easier to just leave the existing wires as they are installed on the air handler side and add a single conductor for the common to 24c on the thermostat. 

The manufactured date of the air handler is 11/2010. Model was documented in my opening post. I can send a photo if you think that would be helpful.

I don't know how to answer the question about "aux heat". How would I determine if I have that?

Looking ahead, you allude to a "secret" menu. That has me curious. Could you elaborate about this?

Model number would be best if not pictures of the wiring connections inside the air handler might do.

AUX heat is a heater besides the heat-pump, and since your in Arizona like my vacation house I'm going to bet you don't have that. AUX heat is a gas or electric heater that kicks on when the heat pump can't keep up...... IE it's to cold outside for the heat pump to be efficient (which Arizona never gets cold like back east or up north) Plus wiring is the same as your old system only difference is done in the settings menu.

Secret menu is not so secret but you have to hold down the 2 center buttons to get into the detailed settings. In there you will set heat pump or not, aux heat or not. Single or dual stage heat or A/C and a few more. The secret is not so secret as it's written in the installation manual, but you won't need any of this until you get the common hooked up so the thermostat will actually power up.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 08, 2014, 06:15:48 am
Ok, on aux heat the answer is no. Don't have that feature. The air handler model is:

4TEC 3F4BB 1000AA which I inappropriately identified as the "heat pump". Wasn't thinking clearly.

I can open it up and take pictures later today. There is no wiring diagram on the outside. Would be nice to find some documentation on the web so will look there.

Thanks for everything.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 08, 2014, 07:36:04 am
A little background.
What the color coded wires mean:
RH - Power Heat
RC - Power Cool
O - Heat Pump Heat/Cool change Over
G - Inside Fan Control
Y - 1st Stage Cooling
W - 1st Stage Heating
C -  Power Common

For a standard single stage heat/cool setup you need 6 wires ... for the Z-Wave thermostat. Most use the same transformer for Heat and Cool so the RH and RC are internally (to the thermostat) connected.
 
The 5 wires you currently have go to the same color codes on the Trane thermostat.

You may have to make one change on the thermostat ... you have a 50/50 chance that it is setup properly.
Different Heat pumps power the O wire differently .... Some power it for heat, some for cooling.
There is a setting in the thermostat to configure this if it is not working correctly. (You will know ... if it heats in the summer and cools in the winter).

However  you need to have 6 wires. Your previous thermostat did not consume any power. The new thermostats need some power because  of the Z-Wave radio and computer for used for managing the thermostat schedules etc.  As a result you need an additional wire. You have two option:

1) Replace the 5-wire thermostat wire with a 6 a wire conductor (I would probably replace it with 7 or 8 conductor
At the air handler (after turning off the power) replace the 5 wire conductor using the same color scheme as the current setup. 
Pick a color for the 6th wire out of the remaining conductors.  Find the 24 volt transformer. There will be two connectors. Hook the wire up to one of them .. and C on the Thermostat.  Turn the power on ... if the thermostat does not turn on ... turn the power off ... and hook that wire to the other connector on the transformer. (You will not hurt anything if you do the wrong one first).

2) Another option if it's too painful to replace the 5 wire conductor is to run an additional 2 wire conductor to some place you can add a second transformer. This will need to be a place where you can access power all of the time. Get a 24V transformer. Something like:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/24V-AC-8A-Tyco-Transformer-Plate-Mounted-Screw-Terminals-24VAC-20VA-PowerSupply-/221336337850?pt=PCA_UPS&hash=item3388ac7dba
Two wire conductors are usually have a red and white wire. Hook the two wires on the transformer (24V Volt Side) and the red wire to RC or RH (which ever one you are not currently using .. remember these are connected internally).
And the white wire goes to the C wire.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 08, 2014, 10:47:20 am
Thanks Richard for the clarifying info. I think I will go with option 1. Should not be too difficult to locate the transformer inside the air handler and dressing/stripping wires is not that big a job. A single cable makes for a neater approach.

I'm getting a real education from all the replies people have kindly offered. I do greatly appreciate the help.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 08, 2014, 11:19:47 am
Ok, on aux heat the answer is no. Don't have that feature. The air handler model is:

4TEC 3F4BB 1000AA which I inappropriately identified as the "heat pump". Wasn't thinking clearly.

I can open it up and take pictures later today. There is no wiring diagram on the outside. Would be nice to find some documentation on the web so will look there.

Thanks for everything.

Your model number is off by one and google gave me a hard time about it. LOL        48 not 4B in the middle which is the ton size of your unit which is 4 Ton by the way.

So you have a TRANE  4TEC3F48B1000AA

Here's a online manual, but you should find when you open the big access door on the unit it's also mounted on the inside.  ( I also have a trane air-handler, but different model)
https://www.trane.com/Commercial/Uploads/Pdf/1111/2_4tec3.pdf

I have attached the wiring diagram below, one un molested and the other I have circled the 120 to 24v transformer and traced over the common wire as it leads down to the connection block. The wire is BLUE inside the Air Handler and you'll notice coming out the transformer the power wire is red with a fuse 5 amp fuse before it gets to the connection block.

These two wires ultimately have to get to the RC/RH and C on the thermostat to power it up.

Judging by the info you gave us and the and the old thermostat connections I don't think any of this below really applies but I'll throw it out for more info or to double check anyways.

I'm very curious about the BLUE wire in the wall hooked up to "O" on the thermostat and would like to have more info on which wires go to where when you open the door on the Airhandler. Just want to make sure it doesn't go to the Blue wire inside the Air handler. 

Reason is because without a heater and only single stage cooling and heating you really don't need 6 wires. In my Arizona house they powered the "O" and the "W" heating together (inside the air handler they were twisted together). They did this since there is no actual heater and anytime to turn on the heater "W" it powers the reverse valve at the same time and only at the same time. I can only assume yours might be the same, but don't think so based on your first post wiring description.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 09, 2014, 06:15:00 am
While searching the web for an electrical diagram of my air handler I quickly discovered a wealth of information about thermostat wiring that applies to heat pumps. YouTube has many videos produced by HVAC technicians. I got a lot out of viewing the videos.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 09, 2014, 11:20:00 am
While searching the web for an electrical diagram of my air handler I quickly discovered a wealth of information about thermostat wiring that applies to heat pumps. YouTube has many videos produced by HVAC technicians. I got a lot out of viewing the videos.

So did you get it installed?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 12, 2014, 02:07:18 pm
Yesterday I opened the air handler cabinet and did not like what greeted me. A tangle of wires connected with wire nuts. I'll try to capture a clear photo to attach.

Looking at the existing cabling I am changing my mind about installing a new cable, instead I will just have to find the correct wire to route to the new thermostat, if needed. I did find the air handler documentation pasted inside the cover. Sorry about the mistaken part number I originally posted. 

Integlikewhoa, I am not following your comment about the diagram.

"I have attached the wiring diagram below, one un molested and the other I have circled the 120 to 24v transformer and traced over the common wire as it leads down to the connection block."

Did you forget to attach the diagram? By "connection block" I am assuming you mean the "polarized plug".

In any case if what I now understand you saying is true the point is moot. I don't need six wires.

Tracing the blue conductors I see the connection to the polarized plug (6) from a relay contact inside a closed housing.

There are two identical five conductor cables: one goes to the thermostat and the other leads outside. Colors are white, green, yellow, blue and red.

The blue conductor in the thermostat cable is connected to the white conductor in the outside cable.

Notes:
photo 1445 is the Braeburn connector block
photo 1440 v2 is a cropped version of the polarized plug and associated cabling

I am running up against limits of photo size I can post. Let me know if these photos help.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 12, 2014, 02:36:32 pm
Integlikewhoa, I am not following your comment about the diagram.

"I have attached the wiring diagram below, one un molested and the other I have circled the 120 to 24v transformer and traced over the common wire as it leads down to the connection block."

Did you forget to attach the diagram? By "connection block" I am assuming you mean the "polarized plug".

No I attached 2 files in that post and as you have found they match the one in your 2nd picture.

There are two identical five conductor cables: one goes to the thermostat and the other leads outside. Colors are white, green, yellow, blue and red.

I'm assuming the one lower in the pic is the one going to the thermostate. The higher one is going outside to the a/c unit.

The blue conductor in the thermostat cable is connected to the white conductor in the outside cable.

Are you sure it looks like in the picture the blue in the air handler is wire nutted to the blue going to the inside thermostat. Hard to tell as the red wires are in front blocking the picture.

I am running up against limits of photo size I can post. Let me know if these photos help.

And you post one or two more pictures with the wires moved around a bit to show me which colors are going to where from both the outside ac and the thermostat

Also the way they have it wired it doesn't look like you'll need the 6th wire and it looks so far (waiting for pictures to confirm) that the 24C wire is already hooked up in the air handler to the blue going to the thermostat. So it just might be a matter of putting blue to the 24c in the thermostat and your done.

I specifically right now need to see better shots of the which wires are going to the outside a/c unit. The white wire coming from the thermostat (the heat wire) is wire nutted to?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 13, 2014, 05:16:12 am
Integlikewhoa, I am not following your comment about the diagram.

"I have attached the wiring diagram below, one un molested and the other I have circled the 120 to 24v transformer and traced over the common wire as it leads down to the connection block."

Did you forget to attach the diagram? By "connection block" I am assuming you mean the "polarized plug".

Today your attachments are showing clearly. There must be a bug in the forum software.

No I attached 2 files in that post and as you have found they match the one in your 2nd picture.

There are two identical five conductor cables: one goes to the thermostat and the other leads outside. Colors are white, green, yellow, blue and red.

I'm assuming the one lower in the pic is the one going to the thermostate. The higher one is going outside to the a/c unit.

Yes, this is correct. 

The blue conductor in the thermostat cable is connected to the white conductor in the outside cable.

Are you sure it looks like in the picture the blue in the air handler is wire nutted to the blue going to the inside thermostat. Hard to tell as the red wires are in front blocking the picture.

Yes, this is the case. However, the blue and white conductors are cross connected in the two cables.

I am running up against limits of photo size I can post. Let me know if these photos help.

And you post one or two more pictures with the wires moved around a bit to show me which colors are going to where from both the outside ac and the thermostat

Also the way they have it wired it doesn't look like you'll need the 6th wire and it looks so far (waiting for pictures to confirm) that the 24C wire is already hooked up in the air handler to the blue going to the thermostat. So it just might be a matter of putting blue to the 24c in the thermostat and your done.

I specifically right now need to see better shots of the which wires are going to the outside a/c unit. The white wire coming from the thermostat (the heat wire) is wire nutted to?

I'll try to separate the wiring better and take more pictures. Thanks so much for your effort. The digital photos are 5 megapixel and zooming in might help.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 13, 2014, 10:46:31 am
Yes, this is the case. However, the blue and white conductors are cross connected in the two cables.

Got it, I couldn't see that from the pictures. More pictures from this area with wires moved around a bit will help.


I'll try to separate the wiring better and take more pictures. Thanks so much for your effort. The digital photos are 5 megapixel and zooming in might help.

I did zoom in on them, the problem is more some wires covering or are in front of others hard to tell whats happening behind.

I'm still think we going to be good with the 5 wires, but we will have a to move the blue on the thermostat to the RC (which you can do now) and you should see the thermostat power up. After that if we need to make any changes it will be done in the air handler. So I would go ahead and finish the Thermostat and pop it on the wall after you move the blue O wire to the RC spot. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 14, 2014, 03:02:14 am
This photo should be a bit better. Let me know.

I am anxious to get the unit back in operation because the forecast is for several triple-digit days coming up soon. So far the weather has been on my side.

I will go ahead and remove the Braburn mounting plate, install the Trane mounting plate and connect the red, yellow and green wires since there seems no problem with these. Then when I get an answer back from you I can connect the white and blue. After that all should be good.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 14, 2014, 03:46:23 am
Reviewing all the posts and pictures again I conclude it all comes down to where the blue conductor should be connected on the thermostat. Is that right?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 14, 2014, 06:31:44 am
He is hoping he can eliminate the white wire coming from the thermostat ... and then reuse it for another purpose.

The hope is that what white wire connects to at the air handler is ultimately the same spot as the blue wire ... As I mentioned earlier the blue wire controls the heat/cool switch over. And that in some units power on the blue wire indicates cooling, and in some cases power on the blue wire indicates heating.

@integlikewhoa
Has indicated in his case the power on the blue indicated heating. As a result the blue and white wire were virtually indicating the same thing at the same time.  (If he's wrong than eliminating the yellow wire may be an option, because that means the blue wire follows the same indication as the yellow wire).

I would verify which situation you are in. You need a volt meter ... all of the following is low voltage so it's safe to handle when the power is on. Need to identify the 24V common.  You will need this later anyway ...
Between the 24V common and the the red wire to the thermostat you should ALWAYS have 24volts.
With the thermostat OFF ... you should not have any power between the 24V common and any of the following thermostat wires:
     Yellow, Blue, White, Green
Now make the thermostat call for cooling ....  You should now have 24V between the 24V common and the following thermostat wires:
      Red (Always), Yellow (AC), Green (Fan). 
You should NOT have power between the 24V common and
      Blue(Heatpump SwitchOver) and White(Heat)

If you have power on the BLUE than we need an alternate strategy! If not you are good to proceed!

With that knowledge in the Air handler find the wires that connect to the blue wire that goes to the thermostat and the white wire that goes to the thermostat. Disconnect the wire that goes to the white wire to your thermostat and connect it to the same wire nut as the blue wire from the thermostat. (Now all of the blue wires should be connected together!).

Now the white wire from the Thermostat is disconnected (at the air handler). Install the trane thermostat using the same color codes. Except
on the Trane Thermostat change the white wire to the C connector. At the Air Handler you just need to connect the 24V Common wire on the transformer to this white wire on the thermostat.

You still have a 50/50 chance that this  will work properly without any other changes. At this point your Trane thermostat should be powered.
You need to make the thermostat call for AC ... Now is the Air HOT or COLD ? If it's HOT you need to reverse the polarity of the HeatPump switch over (which controls the blue wire). You need to follow the installers instructions for the Thermostat to do this.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 14, 2014, 01:33:31 pm
Ok, we are making progress. I have installed the Trane mounting bracket and will connect the yellow and green wires to their quick connect points. Power is off at the circuit breaker.

I cannot locate my voltage meter. Drat! It was a very cheap unit and could use a better one so I'll be off to Lowes this afternoon. When I get back home the saga can continue.

Thanks Richard. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 14, 2014, 07:14:36 pm
I'm assuming the one lower in the pic is the one going to the thermostat. The higher one is going outside to the a/c unit.
Yes, this is correct. 

GoingGreen,  Looking at your last diagram I'm thinking the above could be wrong. I see the common (24C) going from the air handler to the blue wire of #2 (lower) and I'm thinking the outside unit usually has a constant common running to it with the power or hot coming threw the thermostat to the a/c unit. 

So I'm thinking that #2 is going to the outside unit and #1 is the thermostat. If that's the case you don't have common on the blue wire going to the thermostat currently which means don't bother moving blue wire around just yet.

Can you make sure where #1 and #2 are going first.

Thanks for the help Richard. I'm looking for a bit more tho. White wire in the top left of the pic. It should be Heat, coming from thermostat (assuming #1 is the thermostat, see above) going to something in the air handler. But unsure why if there is no heat in the air handler and I don't understand that wire (yet) on the wiring diagram I posted earlier. Whats your take?

If #2 is the thermostat then its running from the air handler to the AC, but I understand that even less.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 14, 2014, 09:04:49 pm
integlikewhoa:

"Can you make sure where #1 and #2 are going first."

#1 is the cable to the thermostat, #2 is the cable to the outside unit. If you look close at the blue wire nut immediately above #2 you will see where blue and white are cross connected between the cables.

I got my new multimeter, but have not made all the measurements Richard asked for. Had an appointment today and other things slowing me down. It is late afternoon now and my concentration is flagging, so will rest and have supper then make some readings.





Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 14, 2014, 10:36:54 pm
integlikewhoa:

"Can you make sure where #1 and #2 are going first."

#1 is the cable to the thermostat, #2 is the cable to the outside unit. If you look close at the blue wire nut immediately above #2 you will see where blue and white are cross connected between the cables.

I got my new multimeter, but have not made all the measurements Richard asked for. Had an appointment today and other things slowing me down. It is late afternoon now and my concentration is flagging, so will rest and have supper then make some readings.

Ok that's what I thought. So there is no 24C (2 blues twisted together in the bottom right) going to the thermostat. Eventually we will need to use one of the existing wires or a new wire to the 24C of the thermostat. Let me look over this a bit more.
And It would be nice to get a model number off the outside AC unit or even better a picture of how they have the wires in there. If not the testing of the wires as Richard suggested would also give us an Idea of whats going on.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 14, 2014, 10:43:26 pm
If you are correct about the 24c being the blue wire ... then I had the two wires backwards.
With the thermostat removed (the wires can still be screwed to the connectors) See if you have 24Volts between what you have labeled
24C and 24V power.

If your labeling is correct so far ... than what you called unsure (white) is currently the heat ... That's the one we will re-use.

The wire nut that is not labeled with the White and Blue wires is the HeatPump Heat/Cool changeover.

==================================================================================================
Forget my previous comments ... they would instead be:
Connect the White wire on the unsure wire not, the one that goes to the molex connector,  connect that to the unlabeled wire nut ... what I called the HeatPump heat/cool crossover. Because that wire is for heat!, but it will get powered from Heat/cool crossover.

Connect the white wire from the thermostat to the 24V common. (Make sure your thermostat is removed  before you do this!!!!!)
Now move the white wire on the thermostat to C on the thermostat for Trane ... and the other wires using the same previous color coding.


NOTE: The 24V Common wire is the only one you can't make a mistake with ... It's the one that if connected wrong can cause a problem. So it's very important that we get that one right!  You can short all the other wires together accidentally and the most that will happen is the heat, cool, or fan will come on.




Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 14, 2014, 10:53:33 pm
If you are correct about the 24c being the blue wire ... then I had the two wires backwards.
I'm 100% sure of the red and blue coming from the Air Handler on the bottom are 24v hot and common verified by the factory wiring diagram.

And him confirming what I thought about which wires go to the thermostat also jive with that.

If your labeling is correct so far ... than what you called insure (white) is currently the heat ... That's the one we will re-use.

The wire nut that is not labeled with the White and Blue wires is the HeatPump Heat/Cool changeover.

Those are both correct, but why are they running the white heat wire to the Air handler and where does it ultimately go in the air handler. The wiring diagram leaves me puzzled on this part.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 14, 2014, 11:03:59 pm
The white wire could be going back to the Heatpump to engage the compressor ...
or if it's the air handler than it could be engaging the fan ... because the green wire is typically not engaged for heating. For many furnaces the fan is not turned on for heating until the heat exchanger is warmed ... you do not want to blow cold air.

And the crossover controls the 3-way valves to decide on heat or cool operation.

I have not looked at the wiring diagram and I do not remember the default polarity for the Trane thermostate for powering the heat/cool crossover.
So if we are wrong ... then when the AC unit calls for cooling ... he will actually get heat ...
And to fix that requires changing the polarity in the Trane setup and moving a couple wires around ... because we will reuse the yellow wire instead of the white wire.

As you correctly observed ... for a single state heat/cool heatpump the heat/cool crossover will follow the call for heat/cool.
Actually that's not 100% true ... it true when the thermostat is in Auto mode.  He may have to leave the thermostat in Auto Mode.
Some thermostats will power the HeatPump crossover even if the unit does not call for Heat or cool ... if the thermostat is placed in the appropriate HEAT or COOL only mode.  The idea behind this is the 3-Way valves are pre-positioned for the type of operation anticipated.

 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 14, 2014, 11:12:56 pm
Richard,

Also they have the green fan and the red 24v also going to the outside unit, which I have never seen a need for either. Also long as we leave them nothing should change, but I'm curious if they even hooked up outside to something or just capped.

I'm thinking the 3 whites need to be need to be hooked together and the 3 blues need to be hooked together only after the blue on the thermostat has been installed on the 24C
This will only work if with the old thermostat the white wire and blue wire have 24v when heat is on. I would test that then the above changes can be made.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 14, 2014, 11:20:29 pm
Well that's another way ... we can re-use the Blue wire as the 24V C ... by driving the Cross Over from the Heat pump by the Heat (White) or Cool (Yellow) wire as appropriate.

They Heatpump might drive the Air Handler fan (green wire) to on in heat mode with a temperature/pressure sensor on the return line to the compressor indicating that the coil is warm.

My father was in the business and I did installs and service for him for many years ... there are no standards ... there are so many ways to accomplish the same thing.

 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 14, 2014, 11:38:34 pm
Well that's another way ... we can re-use the Blue wire as the 24V C ... by driving the Cross Over from the Heat pump by the Heat (White) or Cool (Yellow) wire as appropriate.

Wait this won't work, we need the compressor to be on no matter heat or cool. Then we need the reversing valve to be on only when in cool.

So doesn't that mean we need the yellow and the white in the A/C unit to be together and the white or heat from thermostat needs to go to the reversing valve.


More I think about this just run a new wire from the thermostat 24C to the blue wires on the Air handler. LOL
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 15, 2014, 07:06:40 am
If you are correct about the 24c being the blue wire ... then I had the two wires backwards.
With the thermostat removed (the wires can still be screwed to the connectors) See if you have 24Volts between what you have labeled
24C and 24V power.

If your labeling is correct so far ... than what you called unsure (white) is currently the heat ... That's the one we will re-use.

The wire nut that is not labeled with the White and Blue wires is the HeatPump Heat/Cool changeover.

==================================================================================================
Forget my previous comments ... they would instead be:
Connect the White wire on the unsure wire not, the one that goes to the molex connector,  connect that to the unlabeled wire nut ... what I called the HeatPump heat/cool crossover. Because that wire is for heat!, but it will get powered from Heat/cool crossover.

Connect the white wire from the thermostat to the 24V common. (Make sure your thermostat is removed  before you do this!!!!!)
Now move the white wire on the thermostat to C on the thermostat for Trane ... and the other wires using the same previous color coding.


NOTE: The 24V Common wire is the only one you can't make a mistake with ... It's the one that if connected wrong can cause a problem. So it's very important that we get that one right!  You can short all the other wires together accidentally and the most that will happen is the heat, cool, or fan will come on.

OK, after a few hours sleep I am back on the job. The Braeburn mounting plate was removed and the Trane mounting plate is in place. The thermostat wiring is pulled through and ready to connect.

I have my new digital multimeter powered up. The circuit breaker for the system is off. Checked for voltage at all the leads and they are dead.

Now, is the plan to go ahead and connect all the wiring to the thermostat, set the circuit breaker to on and test voltages inside the air handler with the multimeter? Once I mount the thermostat to the bracket there is no way to probe voltages at the thermostat location.

Depending on what conditions we observe with power on, some adjustments to the wiring inside the air handler may be required.

The most important consideration is the 24v common.

I'm also assuming I will need to perform step 18c of the install instructions which step contains "installer" instructions. I'll Try to copy that info and attach it to a follow up post because right now my printer will not come out of sleep mode and instructions are to reboot computer, which I don't want to do at this moment. Basically Step 18c is what conditions the thermostat to control a heat pump.

New photo shows tagged wiring at the Trane connector block.

Awaiting a reply.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 15, 2014, 07:18:05 am
The Trane connector block is labeled:

24RC G Y1 Y2   24C 24RH W1 W2
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 15, 2014, 09:34:33 am
Do the following:
  At the thermostat connect:
                                  Red Wire to RH or RC (They are internally tied together)
                                  Blue Wire to 24C
                                  Green Wire to G
                                  White Wire to W1
                                  Yellow Wire to Y1

Do not install the Thermostat YET!
   Back at the air handler ...
The Blue wire that is connected to the thermostat wire ... that currently goes to the white wire to the heat pump .... disconnect those ... Hook the Blue Wire from the thermostat to the blue wires of the 24V common wire nut.

----- Lets leave that white wire to the Heat Pump unit disconnected for now ...
Turn the Power on ... Take your voltmeter and make sure you have 24 Volts between  the pair  (24C and 24RH) or between the pair (24C and 24RC)
If so ... turn the power off again and install the thermostat ... than put the power back on.
Your thermostat should now be running.

----  Now turn the thermostat to Auto or Cool mode ... and set the thermostat to a low temperature so that it calls for AC.
Your outside unit and inside fan should be running. Wait a minute and check the air temperature.   We need to see if it's blowing hot air or cold air ...
It's going to be one of two cases ...

If it's blowing hot air ...
    Turn of the power ... connect that white wire that we left disconnected to the yellow wire nut.
    Wait about 5 minutes since the unit was turned off ... Then turn on power and make it call for AC again.  It should be cold air now.
     Turn the Thermostat OFF ... Wait about 5 minutes ...  set to HEAT mode and turn the thermostat to a high temperature ..
     Wait a few minutes ... the Outside unit should be on ... The inside unit may not turn on for a few seconds to a minute ... in any case in a few minutes it should be blowing HOT air ... you are good to go!

If it's blowing cold air ...
   Great ... Now we need to make sure the heat side will work ...
   Turn off the power ... connect that white wire that we left disconnected to the white wire nut (Labeled Heat On)
   Wait about 5 minutes since the unit was turned off ... Then turn on power. Set to HEAT mode and turn the thermostat to a high temperature ..
   Wait a few minutes ... the Outside unit should be on ... The inside unit may not turn on for a few seconds to a minute ... in any case in a few minutes it should be blowing HOT air ... you are good to go!

You may want to test everything one more time ... heat mode and cool mode ... You should always wait about 5 minutes before turning the outside unit on if it was recently running. Many newer thermostats will have this time delay built int. Many high quality units will also have a build-in timer, or pressure switches,  in the outside unit to protect the unit. You should also turn the Heat/Cool/Auto/Off setting to OFF and turn the Fan ON ... Then just the inside fan should be running.
 

 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 15, 2014, 10:25:12 am
Looks like a good plan.

The trane by default has a 3 min. Run Time and a 5 min. Off time. So when switching unit on and off or switching from heat to cool. Expect it to run for a bit then delay before it starts back up. These times are adjustable in the trane menu. But the ac unit might also have a safety feature built into too.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 15, 2014, 03:36:31 pm
Connected R G Y B W conductors to the connector block. Red to 24RC, blue to 24C.

Disconnected the blue/white conductors from respective cables and connected the disconnected blue wire to the other blue conductors. All blues are now connected in the air handler. White conductor to outside is free.

I think I mis-interpreted your instructions. The blue conductor in the air handler shouldn't be wire nutted with the other blue conductors in the air handler.

It seems to me that red on (5) of the polarized plug is what we need to get to 24C. All the red conductors are now wire nutted together. So there should be 24Vac at 24RC on the connector block. As the normal configuration.

When I apply power I do not read 24Vac between 24RC and 24C. Tried range settings from 200 mVrms to 600 Vrms. Nada. Brand new multimeter that I tested reading some 1.5 V batteries and reads ok. I cannot  think of any low voltage AC I might test.

The trick is to get 24 Vac to the 24C connector point.

Why not just jumper 24RC and 24C. 24 RC is the hot side of the transformer out?

So will need to work through this issue and try to figure out what went wrong. What I am missing.

Have to break off now because I have an apointment in an hour.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 15, 2014, 06:30:24 pm
Connected R G Y B W conductors to the connector block. Red to 24RC, blue to 24C.

Disconnected the blue/white conductors from respective cables and connected the disconnected blue wire to the other blue conductors. All blues are now connected in the air handler. White conductor to outside is free.

That all sound good to that point.

I think I mis-interpreted your instructions. The blue conductor in the air handler shouldn't be wire nutted with the other blue conductors in the air handler.
This is incorrect. You should have all three blues together! This will send the common which starts in the air handler to both the outside unit and the thermostat. Which you should now see the thermostat power on.   

It seems to me that red on (5) of the polarized plug is what we need to get to 24C. All the red conductors are now wire nutted together. So there should be 24Vac at 24RC on the connector block. As the normal configuration.
The red is the hot side of the 24v. We never want to touch that or cross that with the blues which is the ground, common or negative..... or what ever you want to call it of the 24v circuit.  You should be able to put your meter on a/c voltage with the black on the blue from the air handler and the red on the red of the air handler and you should read 24v or close to it when the breaker for the a/c is on.

When I apply power I do not read 24Vac between 24RC and 24C. Tried range settings from 200 mVrms to 600 Vrms. Nada. Brand new multimeter that I tested reading some 1.5 V batteries and reads ok. I cannot  think of any low voltage AC I might test.

The trick is to get 24 Vac to the 24C connector point.

Why not just jumper 24RC and 24C. 24 RC is the hot side of the transformer out?

So will need to work through this issue and try to figure out what went wrong. What I am missing.

Again "24RC" and/or "24RH" are the hot, positive, line what ever you want to call it.  (this is Red)
"C" or "24C" is the negitive, netural, or common. (this is Blue)

Both are different and should not be connected to each other or you will short out the transformer. If you open the hood on your car and you put a screw driver between the positive and negative of the battery this would be the same effect. You need both to complete the circuit but not touching together.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 15, 2014, 06:51:35 pm
I think I have read that you don't get 24v between the red and the blue coming from the air handler (see first attachment). If that is true then read this. If not ignore the following.

The 24Vac comes from the transformer inside the air handler. You need to test at the air handler molex connector to insure that the miswiring beyond that is not the cause. If you didn't have the 3 blue wires together and you were testing on the side of the thermostat and outside unit and not the side coming from the air handler that would explain it.

If you are testing coming from the air handler side and 24v is not coming I see two issues.

One: (not to insult your intelligence, but) you don't know how or are misusing the multimeter. If we continue to put all 3 blues together and the reds are together and the wiring to the thermostat is (red to RC or RH ) and (blue is the to C) install the thermostat and it should power up. If not, you were correct that you don't have 24V :).

See 2nd attachment

Two: You have already crossed the red with the blues and blown the fuse shown in the wiring diagram below.
Please locate and check for power straight from the 120v to 24v transformer. The low voltage side should have the red and blue wire coming out. The red goes threw a automotive fuse (doesn't say what amperage) then down to the molex connector that you said had no power.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 15, 2014, 07:13:11 pm
The terminology RC and RH come stand for Red Heat (24V Power) and RC Red Cool (24V Power)  when you have two transformers .. one for the heating circuit and one for the cooling circuit. We only have one transformer.   

Make sure your multi-meter is set to measure AC voltage and not DC voltage. A battery is DC voltage.  You can test AC measurement by sticking the two probes into a outlet socket ... you will get 120 Volts.

We really need to verify the 24Volts between the red and blue wires before we proceed.
My eyes are not good enough to read that wiring diagram ... some interesting wires for us are blanked out.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 15, 2014, 08:18:31 pm
We really need to verify the 24Volts between the red and blue wires before we proceed.
My eyes are not good enough to read that wiring diagram ... some interesting wires for us are blanked out.

Richard I already posted this on the 2nd page but here's the wiring diagram without the interesting wires blanked out.

The red and blue are correct and come straight from the low side of the transformer. This is 100% verified.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 15, 2014, 09:54:09 pm
I lose concentration after a while and that is the only explanation I can offer for my inappropriate suggestion to jumper 24RC (hot) and 24C (common). I do understand this would be exactly the wrong thing to do. Sorry for the lapse.

Beginning to wonder if it is possible to talk by phone. That might be faster. I don't have a calling plan that lets me make long distance, but I do have Skype and Google Talk. Maybe a Google hangout would work.

I cannot test the multimeter by inserting the probes into a household socket. The probes are too tiny, only about 1/8 inch is exposed.

I did replace the original manufacturers 9 V battery with a Duracell, but see no change because of that. I did probe the connections on the relay in the air handler and get essentially the same result as probing the 24RC to 24C at the thermostat connection block. With the meter set to 20 V resolution I see about 0.05-0.07 and the reading is not steady. This is a digital multi meter.

     
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 15, 2014, 10:00:28 pm
I lose concentration after a while and that is the only explanation I can offer for my inappropriate suggestion to jumper 24RC (hot) and 24C (common). I do understand this would be exactly the wrong thing to do. Sorry for the lapse.

Beginning to wonder if it is possible to talk by phone. That might be faster. I don't have a calling plan that lets me make long distance, but I do have Skype and Google Talk. Maybe a Google hangout would work.

I cannot test the multimeter by inserting the probes into a household socket. The probes are too tiny, only about 1/8 inch is exposed.

I did replace the original manufacturers 9 V battery with a Duracell, but see no change because of that. I did probe the connections on the relay in the air handler and get essentially the same result as probing the 24RC to 24C at the thermostat connection block. With the meter set to 20 V resolution I see about 0.05-0.07 and the reading is not steady. This is a digital multi meter.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 15, 2014, 10:52:57 pm
I lose concentration after a while and that is the only explanation I can offer for my inappropriate suggestion to jumper 24RC (hot) and 24C (common). I do understand this would be exactly the wrong thing to do. Sorry for the lapse.

Beginning to wonder if it is possible to talk by phone. That might be faster. I don't have a calling plan that lets me make long distance, but I do have Skype and Google Talk. Maybe a Google hangout would work.

I cannot test the multimeter by inserting the probes into a household socket. The probes are too tiny, only about 1/8 inch is exposed.

I did replace the original manufacturers 9 V battery with a Duracell, but see no change because of that. I did probe the connections on the relay in the air handler and get essentially the same result as probing the 24RC to 24C at the thermostat connection block. With the meter set to 20 V resolution I see about 0.05-0.07 and the reading is not steady. This is a digital multi meter.

I feel you are not properly using the meter and I would skip the meter for now and test the thermostat. As long as blue and red not on the same circuit you can little to no harm.

Connect the 3 blues, verify the 3 reds and on the thermostat that blue is to C and red is RC or RH and put thermostat on. Power up system and thermostat should light up.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 16, 2014, 02:45:07 pm
Progress. Installed the thermostat on the mounting bracket. It powers up. Set the clock and tested the fan. Checks OK.

The next checkout was to  check cooling operation. Set the temp 10 degrees below room reading and after several minutes am not getting any cool air. The white wire we left disconnected in the air handler is still that way, recall.

Unfortunately, I have to break off now to leave for my appointment at cardio rehab. Will be back in a few hours and check to see what advice you offer now.

The instructions call for checking heating next. Then I have to enroll the device in the Vera system.

Just reviewed instructions and see I missed the 18c installer instructions. This is how you designate heat pump operation. If I understood the instructions, I have a single stage system so this is how I configured the control.

In a few minutes the fan stopped. After several minutes the fan started again. The display says Cool is on, but I do not feel cool air from the registers. I went outside to check the compressor and saw it kick on and then go off.

Since I have to leave for a few hours I thought it best to just kill the power until I get back and see what you have to say.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 16, 2014, 03:12:15 pm
Progress. Installed the thermostat on the mounting bracket. It powers up. Set the clock and tested the fan. Checks OK.
That's good news. Shows the wiring diagram is right and we are moving in a positive direction. Also shows your multimeter readings are not correct (we might need to get that fixed before we can test anything else). I suggest you set your multimeter up like your ready to test for 24v then post a picture of the meter (and connections) so we can verify you have the meter in the right setting and the leads (wires) in the right place.

The next checkout was to  check cooling operation. Set the temp 10 degrees below room reading and after several minutes am not getting any cool air. The white wire we left disconnected in the air handler is still that way, recall.
White wire is ok for now, we haven't forgot. Compressor should be running and you should get hot or cold air with the white wire off. White wire is connected to a valve that reverses the flow in the outside a/c unit. With it disconnected (no power) we are trying to find out which way its going, then we will know if power on white wire means cool or if power on means heat. At this point without a model number off the outside unit and without pictures of the wiring in the outside unit we have to rely on testing the wire manually to figure it out.

I personally am better at wiring diagrams and your multimeter testing seems to be off for now, so if it's not to much trouble I would feel more comfortable with the model number and pictures of wiring in outside unit then I could set this straight without having to test so many wires to guess whats going on.

If you choose to check out the wiring of the outside unit, please make sure power is turned off to that unit. It should have 240v disconnect within a few feet of the unit. Shut it off there before working on that. We will not need to touch anything on the 240v side but don't want any problems.

The instructions call for checking heating next. Then I have to enroll the device in the Vera system.
You can check for heat and let us know the results, and I wouldn't bother with VERA just yet. It's not needed and we in the middle on just getting everything to work right first.

Just reviewed instructions and see I missed the 18c installer instructions. This is how you designate heat pump operation. If I understood the instructions, I have a single stage system so this is how I configured the control.
I would before any more testing go threw and adjust settings to match your system. If the thermostat thinks you have more then one stage or have a heater rather then a heatpump it can send false info out to wires (2nd stage) that are not even hooked up there for it thinks it cooling in 2nd stage or 3rd stage but you don't have that and there for nothing is really happening.

So please set the following in the mechanical settings (should be page 27 of the manual)
Type: Heatpump
Fan Type: Electric
C/O type: unknown for now. (white reversing wire)
2nd stage heat: NO
Aux heat: NO
2nd stage cooling: NO

In a few minutes the fan stopped. After several minutes the fan started again. The display says Cool is on, but I do not feel cool air from the registers. I went outside to check the compressor and saw it kick on and then go off.
Unsure why it would kick on and off at this point, need more info.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 16, 2014, 09:14:52 pm

You Write:
So please set the following in the mechanical settings (should be page 27 of the manual)
Type: Heatpump
Fan Type: Electric
C/O type: unknown for now. (white reversing wire)
2nd stage heat: NO
Aux heat: NO
2nd stage cooling: NO

Rechecked and this is current condition. It agrees with step 18c, of my installation instructions which is what I followed. I don't have a manual, but would be nice to locate one. The installation crew left me with with nothing.

I'll take some photos of the outside unit when it gets a bit cooler. Right now it is 106 degrees, late in the day and I am getting tired and hungry. It looks as though I'll have to remove a sheet metal panel to gain access to the internal wiring connections. I have located the main circuit breaker for the unit.

As far as the multimeter, will attach a photo of it as well. It is a Southwire model sold by Lowes.

So I am beginning to think I may have blown the fuse in the air handler. I may have gotten confused at one time or another and thought the circuit breaker was off outside when it was in fact on. We went through many gyrations over the past days. It is a simple matter to check the fuse, so will do that in the morning when I am starting fresh.

Maintenance work and troubleshooting inevitably involves risk of causing problems as you are probably well aware.

Another option is just to call an AC mechanic and since the outside unit is due for a check and cleaning, perhaps that is the way to go. Maybe if I order a regular checkup/cleaning they can make me a deal on the service call.

Otherwise, I am content to keep working on the issue a few more days. Perhaps we just need a fuse, which is considerably cheaper than a service call.

The heat pump is a Trane XR13, manufactured 1/2011. 4TWR3048A1000AB
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 16, 2014, 10:26:59 pm
The picture you posted is checking DC voltage. DC has the straight line after the "V" AC has the wavey line.

Spin it to the right 2 clicks after the "OFF" to "200 V~" and then test your red and blue wires.   
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 16, 2014, 10:37:50 pm
I don't have a manual, but would be nice to locate one. The installation crew left me with with nothing.
The manual I was referring to was for the TRANE Z-wave thermostat.
I have already posted your air handler manual on the 2 or 3 page of this thread and I'll post you A/C manual in a bit since i have the info on it below.

I'll take some photos of the outside unit when it gets a bit cooler. Right now it is 106 degrees, late in the day and I am getting tired and hungry. It looks as though I'll have to remove a sheet metal panel to gain access to the internal wiring connections. I have located the main circuit breaker for the unit.
Yes there should be 1 or 2 small 1/4" screws you remove and the panel will slide off. You should find a disconnect on a few feet away from the unit. It's code now a days.

As far as the multimeter, will attach a photo of it as well. It is a Southwire model sold by Lowes.

So I am beginning to think I may have blown the fuse in the air handler. I may have gotten confused at one time or another and thought the circuit breaker was off outside when it was in fact on. We went through many gyrations over the past days. It is a simple matter to check the fuse, so will do that in the morning when I am starting fresh.


Already commented on that problem. And we know the fuse is good in the air handler because the thermostat powers up and the fan blows. Neither would work if that fuse was blown. You have power, you just didn't know it.

Maintenance work and troubleshooting inevitably involves risk of causing problems as you are probably well aware.

Another option is just to call an AC mechanic and since the outside unit is due for a check and cleaning, perhaps that is the way to go. Maybe if I order a regular checkup/cleaning they can make me a deal on the service call.

Otherwise, I am content to keep working on the issue a few more days. Perhaps we just need a fuse, which is considerably cheaper than a service call.
[/quote] We are almost done and you haven't burnt the house down. Most important we are all learning something.

The heat pump is a Trane XR13, manufactured 1/2011. 4TWR3048A1000AB

I'll post up the manual in a few min., but I will wait on really making any wiring moves until I see what they have going on. Post 1 or 2 good pictures like you did in the air handler

EDIT: Here's where you can find you manual for the outside unit. http://dar.proflo.com/darmanager/Query?PRODUCT_ID=4131361&USE_TYPE=INSTALLATION
And I have attached a picture of the wiring diagram.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 17, 2014, 04:38:29 am
Yes, agree, the fuse must be OK. Disregard my comment. I really should not try to work late in the day.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 17, 2014, 01:58:44 pm
OK mystery solved with the multimeter. Switching function as you suggested results in a reading of 26.9 V. A bit high. I think I was interpreting the function I was trying to use as Volts RMS, but looking closer at the meter it is impossible to decipher the actual legend on the meter.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 17, 2014, 02:07:28 pm
Here are photos of heat pump cover and main power control.

So, I'll kill power and remove the panel at the bottom and take some more photos.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 17, 2014, 02:49:42 pm
Photo attached.

Orange to white
Red to red
Blue to blue
Yellow to yellow
Black - open
Green open

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 17, 2014, 02:59:32 pm
I don't know how to interpret the "field hookup diagram" but assume the version on the left is what we should be following. Awaiting further instructions, because it is clear you will know.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 17, 2014, 03:16:39 pm
Found the heat pump manual. This is interesting.

"F.   COMPReSSOR START UP
After all electrical wiring is complete, SET THE THER- MOSTAT SYSTEM SWITCH IN THE OFF POSITION SO
COMPRESSOR WILL NOT RUN, and apply power by clos- ing the system main disconnect switch. This will activate the compressor sump heat (where used). Do not change the Thermostat System Switch until power has been applied for one (1) hour. Following this procedure will prevent potential compressor overload trip at the initial start-up."


Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 18, 2014, 08:48:05 am
That's for VERY COLD conditions (heat pumps where the outside temp drops very low at night than warms up enough to be used ... The OIL in the compressor can get COLD soaked ... and you have a crankcase heater to warm the oil.

In your case (you indicated > 100 deg in a previous post) you do not have to worry about that ... but I did mention 5 minutes between stopping the compressor and trying to start it again.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 18, 2014, 08:55:42 am
Since we know that Red - 24V Hot and Blue is 24V Common, 
I believe:
    Yellow causes the compressor to come on.
    White controls Heat/Cool mode for the Heat Pump.
And as @integlikewhoa guessed ... the green wire is not connected to anything.


So if the thermostat has been off for a while ... and then you turn it on and request cooling ... the compressor should come on ... We just do not know about cool or heat mode (because the white wire at the air-handler side is still disconnected). Can you verify the Compressor comes on ?  Does it stop shortly after that ? How long ?



Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 18, 2014, 10:10:39 am
Yes the compressor comes on and then after maybe 5 seconds shuts down.

Do the wire connections I reported for the heat pump make sense to you?

Would the symptom we see with the compressor have anything to do with the fact the unit has been out of service for many days now?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 18, 2014, 10:40:59 am

Quote
Do the wire connections I reported for the heat pump make sense to you?
YES ... See my previous answer.


At the Air Handler, we still have that white wire that goes to the outside unit disconnected.
Now attach that white wire to the yellow wire ... this is not a final fix ... but I think you will have AC again.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 18, 2014, 11:31:44 am
Connecting the white wire in the air handler puts the unit in operation. It is set to Cool and blowing glorious cool air into the house.

Apparently the device is locked in Hold mode. If I try to change any user settings nothing happens. This is not what I observed before. The padlock symbol is displayed, which I interpret to mean Hold mode is on. I co not have an operating manual, only the installation, system setup and enrollment instructions for the thermostat.

I'll search for the appropriate manual and see what I can learn, but right now it seems the unit is operating, but I don't have control of user settings.


Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 18, 2014, 11:43:08 am
Can you PM me your installation manual ... I still have some unanswered questions ....  You will not have heating in this configuration ...
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 18, 2014, 01:09:24 pm
Turns out I do have thermostat operating instructions. They are printed on the back of the installation instructions, which is all I have been paying attention to. Duh!

Reading that carefully I discovered there is a setting to lockout the front panel controls. I changed that and now the controls behave as expected.

The unit has been operating over an hour and the room temp is down to 78 degrees. Earlier this morning the room was 85 degrees before the compressor started running.

I searched the Nexia web site for a copy of the install/user instruction sheet, but did not find it. I think what you may be interested in is the installer settings (Hidden), which I can copy if my HP printer will come out of sleep mode.

All the instructions for installing and operating the thermostat are printed on a single 27 x 27-inch sheet of paper.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 18, 2014, 02:03:22 pm
Do you have a Web reference to the manuals ? I have not looked myself.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 18, 2014, 02:14:37 pm
OK, I found the install/user manual on the Internet ...
I know what needs to be change ... but lets do it later this week when my guests are gone.
 




Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 18, 2014, 02:42:48 pm
Sounds good. I got my HP printer to wake up and copied a portion of the instructions, but the file size is way bigger than this forum software permits. Glad you found what you needed.

I'm a happy cat sitting in cool air for a change. Last week was brutal. This control system and user interface is far superior to the Braeburn thermostat I was using. After we get the heat cycle to work the next hurdle is to enroll the device and set the programming in MiOS.

I have an Aeotec Lab Minimote which I will try to use to enroll the thermostat after we get squared away on heat/cool operation. I'll review this forum for posts on this topic and try to learn more about how people set their schedules.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 19, 2014, 12:20:01 am
Sorry guys

Spent Saturday in San Diego at Seaworld stayed the night and today we went to the wild animal park. Has a busy weekend and just got home.

I See we got cold air.

I also see you found the secret menu I talked about awhile back.
The heat pump shouldn't be a problem as everything matches from one thermostate to the next minus the common. Only other thing after is you need to get into the secret menu (lol) to set the right setting for heat pump and such but that also isn't hard.
But it's all in the instructions that you just got with the thermostat so i didn't think it was going to be a problem.

Do we still think we can't add another wire from the thermostat to the air handler? If they are close where does the problem lye? 

I'll look at the wiring diagrams a bit better tomorrow and see if this can still be done without that wire but at this point it might be a battle of which is lesser of the two evils. Re wiring and making it work right or adding an extra wire.

I have never used a Minimote and would say it's not needed to enroll your thermostat which is very easy. Setting schedules will be the hard part.

 
 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 19, 2014, 09:08:01 am
I need to find out what the White wire does on the Air Handler ...
Because we need to move the White wire on the Thermostat to W2, which when the thermostat is in HeatPump mode is used to control the HeatPump CrossOver.
Right now I have that tied to yellow wire (AC/Heat Pump  On). But when we move that wire and connect it to the white wire to the HeatPump we still have one wire disconnected.
 





Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 19, 2014, 11:39:25 am
I need to find out what the White wire does on the Air Handler ...

Yea that's the same question I had awhile back. I see the wiring diagram but for some reason it doesn't make any sense to me.

I also can see in his air handler wiring it's going threw the molex then up to the corner in the area with the high voltage input wires. I know it don't have high voltage but where it's going and it's purpose is a mystery to me at this point.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 19, 2014, 12:37:36 pm
I had this ready to post but, apparently did not push Post.

I need to find out what the White wire does on the Air Handler ...
Because we need to move the White wire on the Thermostat to W2, which when the thermostat is in HeatPump mode is used to control the HeatPump CrossOver.
Right now I have that tied to yellow wire (AC/Heat Pump  On). But when we move that wire and connect it to the white wire to the HeatPump we still have one wire disconnected.

I can see moving the white on the thermostat to W2. No problem there.

In the air handler, once I disconnect yellow and white I believe you are saying to route that white to the heat pump. Is this correct?

It seems the way to do this is to connect all the whites in the air handler.

In the heat pump orange and white are connected. Does that stay the same?

I don't see any wire that would be left unconnected in this scenario.

Should it be required, I don't see an elegant way to route an additional conductor because the existing cables exit the cabinet on the top left and the wall opening to the thermostat is on the right side of the enclosure. I suppose I could just tape such a conductor to the front of the air handler and string it across that way. The thermostat cable leaves the air handler and goes around in back of the unit in the configuration as-installed.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 19, 2014, 02:08:06 pm
Should it be required, I don't see an elegant way to route an additional conductor because the existing cables exit the cabinet on the top left and the wall opening to the thermostat is on the right side of the enclosure. I suppose I could just tape such a conductor to the front of the air handler and string it across that way. The thermostat cable leaves the air handler and goes around in back of the unit in the configuration as-installed.

Take some pictures if you can. And don't move around any more wires just yet. Looks like we both need to understand a bit more whats going on.

Can you see or take more pictures of where the white wire in the air handler is going to.  (there is actually 3 wires in the air handler next to the green red and blue but only one white is hooked up. We don't really know where that's going to. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 19, 2014, 03:16:03 pm
Recall originally, the white and blue conductors of respective cables were cross connected in the air handler. Photo 100_1456 V2

We dismantled that connection, tied all the blue conductors together and subsequently tied the white conductor to the Yellow going to the heat pump. That is the way it stands now. Photo 100_1470 V2

The white from the molex connector is tied to the white going to the thermostat.



Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 19, 2014, 04:18:00 pm
I'm trying to include the thermostat using the Aeotec Minimote to no avail. Searching this forum I only find one post that mentions the Minimote. Apparently it is not a popular device, although it looked to me to have many valuable functions.

I can contact Aeotec and see what they say. The alternative is to bring the controller to the thermostat and try including it that way.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 19, 2014, 04:20:34 pm
I'm trying to include the thermostat using the Aeotec Minimote to no avail. Searching this forum I only find one post that mentions the Minimote. Apparently it is not a popular device, although it looked to me to have many valuable functions.

I can contact Aeotec and see what they say. The alternative is to bring the controller to the thermostat and try including it that way.

I have no idea why your trying to use that Minimote you don't need it and will probley make this harder then it is. How far from the VERA is your thermostat?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 19, 2014, 04:22:42 pm
Recall originally, the white and blue conductors of respective cables were cross connected in the air handler. Photo 100_1456 V2

We dismantled that connection, tied all the blue conductors together and subsequently tied the white conductor to the Yellow going to the heat pump. That is the way it stands now. Photo 100_1470 V2

The white from the molex connector is tied to the white going to the thermostat.

Your looking at the wrong end of the white wire. Where does it go on the air handler side. Thermostat goes to molex, then where does molex go to? Some where in the air handler. you can see it going up on the very left side of the pictures you posted. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 20, 2014, 03:40:24 am
I'm trying to include the thermostat using the Aeotec Minimote to no avail. Searching this forum I only find one post that mentions the Minimote. Apparently it is not a popular device, although it looked to me to have many valuable functions.

I can contact Aeotec and see what they say. The alternative is to bring the controller to the thermostat and try including it that way.

I have no idea why your trying to use that Minimote you don't need it and will probley make this harder then it is. How far from the VERA is your thermostat?

The thermostat is about 30-40-feet from my Veralite, no more. Several walls are in the path, but these are presumed to be of conventional drywall composition. One purpose of the Minimote is to specifically enable including remote z-wave devices. It is possible the radio elements of mine are not powerful enough and I do not have a lot of experience using it.

There are three folding metal closet doors in the vicinity of the presumed radio signal path and this may have a bearing on radiation from the Minimote. If so, the radiation from the thermostat itself would likewise be effected.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 20, 2014, 03:46:02 am
The thermostat is about 30-40-feet from my Veralite, no more. Several walls are in the path, but these are presumed to be of conventional drywall composition. One purpose of the Minimote is to specifically enable including remote z-wave devices. It is possible the radio elements of mine are not powerful enough and I do not have a lot of experience using it.

Open up you vera on your computer click add device, slect option #1 and then go into the menu on the thermostat and select add to z-wave network.

It takes like a whole 5 min. and requires no special tools. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 20, 2014, 04:36:19 am
Recall originally, the white and blue conductors of respective cables were cross connected in the air handler. Photo 100_1456 V2

We dismantled that connection, tied all the blue conductors together and subsequently tied the white conductor to the Yellow going to the heat pump. That is the way it stands now. Photo 100_1470 V2

The white from the molex connector is tied to the white going to the thermostat.

Your looking at the wrong end of the white wire. Where does it go on the air handler side. Thermostat goes to molex, then where does molex go to? Some where in the air handler. you can see it going up on the very left side of the pictures you posted.

Photo attached. The upper molex connection is a dead end for the wh/1, 2, 3. They go nowhere. Since these connections apply to cold climate installations this explains why. Assuming I am interpreting the wiring diagram and notes correctly. And what Richard has been advising.

Does this photo help?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 20, 2014, 05:11:17 am
The thermostat is about 30-40-feet from my Veralite, no more. Several walls are in the path, but these are presumed to be of conventional drywall composition. One purpose of the Minimote is to specifically enable including remote z-wave devices. It is possible the radio elements of mine are not powerful enough and I do not have a lot of experience using it.

Open up you vera on your computer click add device, slect option #1 and then go into the menu on the thermostat and select add to z-wave network.

It takes like a whole 5 min. and requires no special tools.

After disconnecting VeraLite and replacing the internal batteries I was able to successfully include the thermostat in the z-wave net. Oh joy, oh joy. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 20, 2014, 05:23:17 am
Thanks the picture helped, funny they had the first stage heat "W" wire going to nothing.

So as Richard was saying

Move the white wire on the thermostat to the O/B connection on thermostat, then disconnect it from the unused white in the air handler and attach it to the white wire going out to the A/C which is already connected to the orange in the a/c. 

So in air handler you should have 2 yellows together and 2 whites together now.

Test that in heat and Cool and see where we are. Hopefully both work right.

If not and they are reversed then in the hidden menu under mechanical settings you can reverse the the O/B connection by chaining the C/O type.

If only cooling works and heat doesn't work or doesn't kick on compressor in heat then we need to jump the Y and the W1 on the thermostat so if either heat or a/c comes on it kicks on the compressor. Then it would just be up to the O/B or reversing valve to switch between heat (no 24v power on O/B wire) to cool (24v power on that O/B wire).

Richard can confirm but I think the thermostat already knows to kick on Y compressor and O/B when asking for cooling and only Y compressor when asking for heat as long as it set for heatpump and reversing valve is set for cooling. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 20, 2014, 05:25:44 am
The thermostat is about 30-40-feet from my Veralite, no more. Several walls are in the path, but these are presumed to be of conventional drywall composition. One purpose of the Minimote is to specifically enable including remote z-wave devices. It is possible the radio elements of mine are not powerful enough and I do not have a lot of experience using it.

Open up you vera on your computer click add device, slect option #1 and then go into the menu on the thermostat and select add to z-wave network.

It takes like a whole 5 min. and requires no special tools.

After disconnecting VeraLite and replacing the internal batteries I was able to successfully include the thermostat in the z-wave net. Oh joy, oh joy.

I would have tried without batteries and plugged in where it normally sits first. If that didn't work then I would have un plugged it and put in batteries to bring it close. I have found most cases its not necessary to bring it closer to the device. Only in case of failed setup or if it can't be found do I bring it within the 3 feet. And the bigger your network the less you need to bring it closer.

I also never leave batteries sitting in the VERA as it doesn't do anything to have them there and if they go bad it only makes a mess and corrodes.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 20, 2014, 07:25:27 am
Good advice on batteries, but modern types are less prone to corrosion than older types. If the Aeotec Minimote or Stick was always reliable batteries would be a moot question.

I see the thermostat on my UI5 overview display and current conditions are as reported at the thermostat display. What baffles me now is how to program schedules.

The Nexia web site claims that to set schedules you can do this from the thermostat:

https://mynexia.helpdocsonline.com/#climate_scheduling

I have a model TZEMT400BBNX thermostat, but the information on the web site does not conform to what I see.

I am vexed. (A handle I often use on forums: IamVexed).

In the MiOS UI5 software I have a schedule I call "Weekday Schedule". It includes all the days of the week. If that has any bearing.

My day typically begins at midnight, since I correspond a lot with people in time zones to my East (Europe, India, Australia). I usually go back to bed for a nap around 4:00 AM and then get up around 8:00 AM. All the sleep experts say this is bad, but it suited Thomas Edison who was notorious for working around the clock. My circadian rhythm looks like a hip hop song, but I have simply resigned myself. Nothing I have ever tried made me sleep for 8 hours a night. Not for 40 years or so.

Afterthought. I usually bed down at night between 7:30 PM and 9:00 PM. So there could be another energy saving period for the schedule that ran from 9:00-0:00.

I digress but all this is leading somewhere. Since the thermostat has an energy saving mode that can specifically be scheduled my thought was to schedule two (make that three) periods at night when I was sleeping that would virtually insure no energy use whatsoever by the HVAC. No fan, no heating, no cooling. The only thing in the house that might run would be the refrigerator and some "vampire" LEDs. The computers are set to sleep.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 20, 2014, 07:32:06 am
Thanks the picture helped, funny they had the first stage heat "W" wire going to nothing.

So as Richard was saying

Move the white wire on the thermostat to the O/B connection on thermostat, then disconnect it from the unused white in the air handler and attach it to the white wire going out to the A/C which is already connected to the orange in the a/c. 

Test that in heat and Cool and see where we are. Hopefully both work right.

If not and they are reversed then in the hidden menu under mechanical settings you can reverse the the O/B connection by chaining the C/O type.


I will get back on this in  a while and report results.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: RichardTSchaefer on May 20, 2014, 08:21:27 am
That O/B wire on the thermostat is labeled W2 on the Thermostat.
Then at the Air Handler ... the white wire from the thermostat needs to go to the white wire on the Outside Unit ... (That wire is currently connected to the yellow wire).
Once we do this ... the AC may quit working ... if it does we need to change an installation setting on the Thermostat (to reverse the polarity of the HeatPump CrossOver wire). So if it does not work as expected ... just put the white wire for the outside unit back to the yellow wires until we talk you through changing the thermostat setting.


You can't set or change the schedule from Vera .. You need to use the Thermostat for that. But you have a complex schedule  ... I do not know how many on/off cycles per day it can handle.  You can always program those schedules in Vera using the PLEG plugin ... and just let Vera change the Thermostat to meet your objectives. But thats another learning curve.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 20, 2014, 10:55:49 am
The thermostat is defaulted to change over valve is for cooling.  So I think we going to be good.

Also if you want to set schedules on the Thermostat you need to enable scheduling in the hidden menu.  But if you do you won't be able to change or use it in Vera.  Most use pleg for this instead.  Or you can use scenes but pleg allows more options. I do not have scheduling on.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 20, 2014, 02:24:58 pm
OK, here are the steps I took:

1. On the thermostat connection block (right side), moved the white to W2/O
2. Connected the white from the Molinex to the white going outside.

Two yellows are connected, two whites are connected.

One white in air handler is open. This white is the thermostat white so this does not make sense, but I'm just trying to follow orders as I interpret them.

Now in cool mode I don't get any cool air, just the fan. Switching to Heat mode the compressor runs but after a short while kicks off. Temperature obviously does not change. Killed the ckt breaker.

The instructions said there was an "unused white" in the air handler. Could you clarify this assertion?  Which white wire?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 20, 2014, 02:46:43 pm
OK, here are the steps I took:

1. On the thermostat connection block (right side), moved the white to W2/O
2. Connected the white from the Molinex to the white going outside.

Two yellows are connected, two whites are connected.

One white in air handler is open. This white is the thermostat white so this does not make sense, but I'm just trying to follow orders as I interpret them.

Now in cool mode I don't get any cool air, just the fan. Switching to Heat mode the compressor runs but after a short while kicks off. Temperature obviously does not change. Killed the ckt breaker.

The instructions said there was an "unused white" in the air handler. Could you clarify this assertion?  Which white wire?

Move the white wire on the thermostat to the O/B connection on thermostat, then disconnect it from the unused white in the air handler and attach it to the white wire going out to the A/C which is already connected to the orange in the a/c. 

Sounds like your fine on the thermostat, but in the airhandler, the white coming from the thermostat goes to the white going to the outside a/c.

That means you now have a white wire in the air handler that's disconnected. (its was currently connected to the thermostat)
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 20, 2014, 08:32:56 pm
I believe we are mis-communicating.

The white conductor that I moved to the thermostat W2/O is now open in the air handler side of the cable.

Maybe this will help.

There are two Molinex connectors in the air handler. Lower Molinex pins 1, 2 and 3 correspond to WH/1, WH2, and WH3. The wiring diagram labels these as low voltage field connection (along with GR, RD and BL). In the original installation back in 2012 the contractor cut two white conductors (WH/2 and WH3) and left them open. The third, WH/1, pin 1, was cross connected to Bl in the cable going to the heat pump.

That was subsequently cross connected by me to Yellow of the heat pump.   

I think what you wanted me to do is connect the white conductors of each 5-conductor cable together. This leaves the white of the Molinex open. Two yellows connected.

The fan relay, pin 6 dead ends at WH/J in the Molinex above in the photo. So the only fan relay contacts that matter to us are 1 to 3. Which are obviously operating OK.

Can you confirm that you do want both white conductors of the two 5-conductor cables tied together?

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 20, 2014, 10:22:03 pm
Confirmed...... yes the 2 white wires from the two 5 conductor wires go together.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 20, 2014, 10:25:00 pm
You already confirmed earlier that the white wire going to the molex connector just goes up to another molex connector that isn't hooked to anything.  So bottom line is the 3 white wires in the molex connectors don't go anywhere and don't need to be hooked up.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 21, 2014, 05:46:46 am
The air handler wiring is only now becoming more clear to me. It has been many years since I was a working technician and fading memory has clouded my analytical prowess. What you don't use, you lose. The brain sees to that.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 21, 2014, 07:20:35 am
I did find the setting for scheduling in the Installer Instructions. I don't really want to establish and modify my schedules at the thermostat. That was the issue with the Braeburn. Even though the Trane thermostat has a far superior user interface design and display, it still makes more sense to me to control my climate using my desktop computer and/or Thinkpad/smart phone.

I have PLEG, but still have a lot to learn about using it.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 21, 2014, 07:34:29 am
Testing system operation now. In heat mode, which I tried first, the system started running and shut down after a few minutes. Switched to Cool mode and waiting now to see what happens.

Fifteen minutes after calling for Cool nothing happens. No fan. Compressor is not running. I don't think it ran and stopped, it just doesn't run at all.

Will await further advice.



Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 21, 2014, 11:37:11 am
Testing system operation now. In heat mode, which I tried first, the system started running and shut down after a few minutes. Switched to Cool mode and waiting now to see what happens.

Fifteen minutes after calling for Cool nothing happens. No fan. Compressor is not running. I don't think it ran and stopped, it just doesn't run at all.

Will await further advice.

Something doesn't seem right here are you sure all wiring connections are tight? Is the thermostat pushed all they way down and making proper connection on the wall plate?  This is where you might need to start checking voltage to see whats going on, because no fan or compressor during cool just don't make sense since you didn't even touch those wires. Did you change something in thermostat settings? Do you have it set properly to cool or heat? Some air handlers have a door sensor (like your clothes dryer) on it to not run when the door is open. I think this is normally on heaters not just air handlers but lets make sure this isn't the problem why nothing is coming on (This still shouldn't affect the outside compressor so I don't think this is really the problem).

Here's some more reasoning.

The inside fan/blower has 24c or common in the air handler already so it only needs to see 24v on the green wire out of the thermostat only and it should kick on. This should kick on any time the unit is in cool, heat or manual fan on. Since we haven't even touched the green wire this indicates the 24v power is not being sent from the thermostat and that could be a few things.

The outside compressor has the blue common 24v or 24c going to it. It needs to have 24v power on the yellow wire to kick on the compressor. Again we didn't touch the Yellow wire or the blue wire.

The white wires are for heating/reversing the direction of the compressor. This shouldn't make any difference in actually coming on but will change the heating or cooling output. So I'm Ignoring that right now as there could be a problem there, but shouldn't be any problem in the actual unit atleast kicking on, especially the fan/blower inside the house.   

With all that being said I'm assuming something is wrong (loose or settings) in the thermostat. The way I would test it is to check at the air handler to see what has power when a/c is commanded on. In your testing you said no compressor or fan. So with your meter in the proper position, black probe in the blue (24c) wire and with the red probe on the yellow (cool/compressor) you should have 24Vac when thermostat is commanding cooling. You can also test between the blue and the green for 24Vac to see the fan command. 

Report back so we can determine which end the problem is coming from.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 21, 2014, 02:07:11 pm
More likely this is cockpit error and my unfamiliarity with setting the thermostat. Checking just now I see the fan was set to auto, which means it would not come on unless the unit was cooling or heating. When I set it to on, it operates as expected. Let's try this. I'll report the settings on the thermostat to you.

Right now the unit is in Cool mode, the fan is operating, the air is cool and the heat pump outside is operating.

The thermostat set points are:

Heat, 66
Cool, 69

Room temperature according to the thermostat is 84 (which agrees with independent room thermometers, which are showing 83, nearby and 82 in the living room).

Conclusion: cooling is stable and working just fine.

Will let that run a few more minutes and then change thermostat to order heat. Now since the room temperature is 84 should I set the desired heat to say 90?

I really don't want the unit to attempt to bring the house temperature to 69, so I'll set that to 83 and try that for a while.


Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 21, 2014, 03:23:08 pm
After allowing the Cool mode to run for a while, I switched to Heat. Asked for a few degrees above current room temp, 84.

The unit switches, the compressor comes on, but runs less that a minute and shuts off.

The set points seem to have a mind of their own. My call for 87 degree heat is changed automagically to 79.

the system seems to be fighting my set points. When I manipulate them in UI5 Dashboard>Devices>Thermostat the readings of cool and heat set points move together.

Don't get why this should happen.

It does seem clear the Heat mode is not working properly.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 21, 2014, 05:12:11 pm
It does seem clear the Heat mode is not working properly.

This doesn't seem clear to me at all.

If you can't get the thermostat to stay set at 89 degrees (for testing) heating then you have a operator error. This could be why the unit kicks on then back off.
Only if the thermostat is showing heating, staying on for some time and set at a higher temp then it currently is do we expect everything else to work.

So you know the heating and cooling temps need to be set for atleast 3 degrees difference (per the settings in the thermostat) so if you set cooling for 80 and try to set heating to 81 it will lower the cooling to 78 or raise the heating automatically on both Vera and in the thermostat. And if you have changed the setting from default 3 degrees it could be more then 3 degrees, but that was the default tho.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 21, 2014, 05:29:31 pm
The setting for the temp separation is under:
settings then H/C Delta

It can be any number from 3-15 degrees with the default of 3.  And according to the Trane thermostat manual. Says the following:

Quote
"Sets the minimum separation between heating and cooling setpoints. Attempts to
lower the cooling below the heating setpoint by this amount will PUSH the heating
setpoint down to maintain this separation. Same for setting the heating setpoint
above the cooling setpoint, it will PUSH the cooling setpoint up to maintain this
separation."

Do you think this is what your describing?

And while heating is not working can you take a picture of your thermostat to we can confirm that it says heating and your in the right mode.

As of now I think all wiring is good especially if cooling is working (means we don't have the white wire backwards and its hooked up, or cooling wouldn't blow cold)

Thermostat needs to work and send the commands right before anything else can work right. Even if all wires (except for 24c and 24H) were not hooked up the thermostat would still stay in cooling or heating mode and look like its functioning. So the wiring is not going to affect why the thermostat isn't staying in heating or is changing the temp on you. That's going to be a operator error if I had to guess.

Send some pics of thermostat screen when its not working so we can see whats it calling for and what mode its in.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 21, 2014, 05:46:53 pm
The thermostat set points are:

Heat, 66
Cool, 69


Just paid more attention to your above temps. So this means your still defaulted to the 3 degree separation. If you were to try and raise the above heating set point the cooling is also going to raise up and maintain at least 3 degrees hotter then the heater set point. 

If you were to lower the above cooling set point the Heating set point is also going to lower to stay atleast 3 degrees colder.

Think about this. If the inside room temperature is 75 degree's.
You set the heat for 90 and cooling for 60.
How is it going to know what to do?
Cool to 60 or heat to 90?
It's stuck in between and doesn't know which direction to go.

So cooling number always has to be higher then heating number. And right now that's a 3 degree window. Any higher then that 3 degree window cooling comes on. and lower then that 3 degree window, heating comes on.   
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 21, 2014, 08:24:53 pm
The setting for the temp separation is under:
settings then H/C Delta

It can be any number from 3-15 degrees with the default of 3.  And according to the Trane thermostat manual. Says the following:

Quote
"Sets the minimum separation between heating and cooling setpoints. Attempts to
lower the cooling below the heating setpoint by this amount will PUSH the heating
setpoint down to maintain this separation. Same for setting the heating setpoint
above the cooling setpoint, it will PUSH the cooling setpoint up to maintain this
separation."

Do you think this is what your describing?

Yes, it is what is happening.

And while heating is not working can you take a picture of your thermostat to we can confirm that it says heating and your in the right mode.

Will do.

As of now I think all wiring is good especially if cooling is working (means we don't have the white wire backwards and its hooked up, or cooling wouldn't blow cold)

Thermostat needs to work and send the commands right before anything else can work right. Even if all wires (except for 24c and 24H) were not hooked up the thermostat would still stay in cooling or heating mode and look like its functioning. So the wiring is not going to affect why the thermostat isn't staying in heating or is changing the temp on you. That's going to be a operator error if I had to guess.

Send some pics of thermostat screen when its not working so we can see whats it calling for and what mode its in.

Have to break off for now to attend to some other matters, but will get back on this early in the morning.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 21, 2014, 08:42:15 pm
Here is screen capture of my Device display of thermostat.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 21, 2014, 10:18:07 pm
I need a picture of the thermostat screen. In Vera it doesn't show its current state.

Also you should have the fan on auto. And for testing purpose just use heat or cool for now.

Was the unit blowing cold air during this screen shot?
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 22, 2014, 12:58:32 pm
Yes, unit was cooling in that instance. I then changed the thermostat as you suggested.

Blew my net energy budget yesterday. Used 30 kWh against my average for the month of 5.

Goes to show how important thermostat settings can be. I think the air handler was running constantly for 10 hours. 

I experimented with photographing the thermostat and finally figured out the right camera settings to do a closeup. I'm using my old Kodak 5 Megapixel camera and don't use that one a lot. Here are some test shots from the camera and from Vera UI5.

These captures show current conditions. I'm still digesting the info I need to understand how to tackle the heat side of the testing. I have to break off for a few hours, but will return to this after lunch. Apparently I need to work on the setting that controls the spread between heat and cool.



 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 22, 2014, 01:33:33 pm
These captures show current conditions. I'm still digesting the info I need to understand how to tackle the heat side of the testing. I have to break off for a few hours, but will return to this after lunch. Apparently I need to work on the setting that controls the spread between heat and cool.

I think everything is working normal, but you say heating is the problem, but yet the last few pictures haven't been anything to help fix that problem.

These pictures show the unit is currently off (not cooling or blowing air).

You have Vera set to cool and so is the thermostat and you can see in the bottom left corner of the thermostat pic.

On the left side of the screen (in the thermostat pic) the thermostat shows system off, fan off and hold.

System off : shows it's current actions. It's not cooling and that's because you have it set to 82 and it's already colder in the house (currently 81).
Fan off : since it's on AUTO no reason for it to run when not cooling and heating so that's normal.
Hold : means your not running a changing scheduled you have the temp permanently held at the temp's shown on the right side of the screen.

The VERA interface in your picture doesn't show what the unit is really doing at this current time like the physical thermostat does. Vera shows you have asked for cool mode and the temps you set, but doesn't really show you in real time if the unit is current running or waiting.

If you have a heating problem, lets see some info on that so we can see what's going on. If it's shut down when it's not supposed to be lets see some pics to see what it's doing.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 22, 2014, 02:12:05 pm
As far as I can see Vera is accurately reporting exactly what is displayed on the thermostat. So your comment has me scratching my head. (A normal situation for me.)

The only way I can tell what is happening at the heat pump is to go outside and examine the unit. If it is running the fan is turning and I assume the compressor is running. This may or may not be an accurate assumption.

Of course, in cool mode I can actually observe the drop in reported temperature.

Do I need to change the thermostat display when I take pictures? If so, in what way?

Thanks, sorry to be so daft. 
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 22, 2014, 03:02:31 pm
As far as I can see Vera is accurately reporting exactly what is displayed on the thermostat. So your comment has me scratching my head. (A normal situation for me.)

Just look at your two pictures you posted. In the picture of Vera where does it Say "Hold", "System Off" and "Fan off"? The thermostat just plain displays more info period.
That information is what the unit is currently doing. In Vera it shows what you want (the set point or the commanded) the system to do but doesn't show the actual or current state.

The only way I can tell what is happening at the heat pump is to go outside and examine the unit. If it is running the fan is turning and I assume the compressor is running. This may or may not be an accurate assumption.
This is most accurate for now until we know everything is working like it should, but then you should be able to look at the thermostat see "Cool on" "Fan on" and "Hold" and know the compressor is running the fan is blowing and the system is being held.

Do I need to change the thermostat display when I take pictures? If so, in what way?

Nope, just turn on the heat as you think it should be on. Snap a quick picture, check outside heatpump for whats its doing. If it running then but quits shortly after take another picture of the thermostat and note it for us so we can see the difference when it was running and when it quit.

What I'm looking for when the heatpump kicks on is the left side of the thermostat says:

Heat on
Fan on
Hold

And when the unit kicks off this should change to:

Heat off
Fan off
Hold

If this is the case the heat pump is doing exactly what the thermostat is telling it to do and we have a settings problem or something in the thermostat.
If the heat pump stops running and the thermostat still says heat on, that means the thermostat is sending power to the heat pump but its not working, hence a wiring issue or something other then the thermostat.

Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 22, 2014, 07:07:13 pm
OK, now I follow you.

After switching system for heat mode, the system started up and ran for a few minutes. Then it stopped. Apparently this is something to do with Aux heat. Here is the photo:
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 22, 2014, 07:08:17 pm
OK, now I follow you.

After switching system for heat mode, the system started up and ran for a few minutes. Then it stopped. Apparently this is something to do with Aux heat. Here is the photo:

Your supposed to have AUX heat turned off in the settings. Turn that off and retest.

AUX heat is another form of heating to help give the heat pump a boost when its too cold. Un-needed in your area. Normally its what they call heat strips (electric wire like an old electric plug in heater or a toaster). It's placed inside the air handler and when its turned on the wire glow red hot and the air handler blows air over them and out the vents.

So right now with AUX heat on and probley the temp you are requesting (much hotter then the inside house) it's thinking you need maximum heat (which heat pumps are not known for)  and its shutting down the outside heat pump and kicking on AUX heat. Which since we don't have anything hooked up to it nothing but the blower is running during this time.

I just checked with AUX heat on the default setting is 3 degrees hotter then the inside room and AUX heat will kick on instead of just the heatpump. So if you would have only set the temp 1-2 degrees hotter then then room we would have never noticed this setting problem.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 22, 2014, 07:13:44 pm
Maybe take a picture of the mechanical settings page also to make sure everything was changed.

This was posted back on I think page 4

So please set the following in the mechanical settings (should be page 27 of the manual)
Type: Heatpump
Fan Type: Electric
C/O type: unknown for now. (white reversing wire)
2nd stage heat: NO
Aux heat: NO
2nd stage cooling: NO

We now know the default "Cooling" for C/O type above is correct.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 22, 2014, 07:34:51 pm
C/O type was setting at White.

I have a bit of a problem now in that my camera was whining about low power, so situated it on it's little butt in it's little charger. It needs an hour or so perhaps.

I switched the aux heat setting to N.

Apparently we do have the wiring correct and configuration and cockpit errors were the problems.

Now, thinking about what we discovered during this upgrade to the Trane thermostat I am wondering if my installation was never installed correctly to begin with and I only thought it was working because I didn't really know how to ring it out properly and the Braeburn thermostat was no big help.

I've had the unit serviced twice and recall that on at least one service call the tech replaced the startup cap in the heat pump, but they assured me this is a normal problem.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: integlikewhoa on May 22, 2014, 08:04:37 pm
C/O type was setting at White.

The C/O type should be set to "cooling" by default and I think it's still there. Which means that white wire or the reversing valve gets 24v power when we are in cooling mode and no power in heat. If we switch the settings to C/O type to "heat" the white wire or reversing valve will have power during heating. This means the heat pump would cool during heating and heat during cooling. We don't have this problem so what ever the setting is...... It's currently right!

I have a bit of a problem now in that my camera was whining about low power, so situated it on it's little butt in it's little charger. It needs an hour or so perhaps.

If testing all goes well might not need to post any pictures as there won't be any trouble shooting to do.

I switched the aux heat setting to N.

Apparently we do have the wiring correct and configuration and cockpit errors were the problems.
Inching closer to the end.

Now, thinking about what we discovered during this upgrade to the Trane thermostat I am wondering if my installation was never installed correctly to begin with and I only thought it was working because I didn't really know how to ring it out properly and the Braeburn thermostat was no big help.
I'm sure it was or you would have noticed. The Braeburn doesn't have most of these settings as its a basic unit. The old wiring was accommodated to not having many options. Like reversing the white wires power was done before on how it was wired not by a setting in the menu.

Some things I don't know why they did them tho. Like why was the white wire in the air handler hooked up but going to no where. Same with the fan wire going to the outside heat pump. It doesn't hurt but there was no point.

I've had the unit serviced twice and recall that on at least one service call the tech replaced the start up cap in the heat pump, but they assured me this is a normal problem.
Yup they have to sale you something!
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 23, 2014, 07:58:53 am
I really cannot find adequate words to thank you and Richard and others that offered such valuable advice. I would have stumbled around forever. Teaching yourself HVAC troubleshooting is not a happy task.

Now that my camera is fully charged I will take a complete set of photos for future reference. My next challenge will be to set up my schedules and learn how to fine tune them for maximum savings. I should be able to trim a few dollars from each month's bill and eventually recoup the $140 cost of the new thermostat. What I gained in experience is hard to put a price on.
Title: Re: Need help installing Trane thermostat
Post by: GoingGreen on May 25, 2014, 09:16:28 am
If you have a thermostat with an energy saving mode what settings have you found most efficient? How do you employ this mode? At the thermostat, or in Vera? It is possible to devise an energy saving mode that will control the Trane thermostat.

Looking for tips and real-world advice.