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General => Temperature Monitoring & HVAC Control => Topic started by: clippermiami on January 26, 2015, 09:48:08 am

Title: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: clippermiami on January 26, 2015, 09:48:08 am
https://www.ecoventsystems.com

I just saw this today and I've been in contact with them. They have chosen to support ZigBee initially but told me they have intention to integrate with Vera as one of the major players in HA. What kind of integration remains to be seen.

I would think the ideal method would be on the TCPIP side with an API to allow Vera to command and receive status over an IP connection. Let the EcoVent controller perform all the sensor/vent control stuff and let Vera integrate it into the rest of the house and keep the direct load off Vera
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: mvader on January 26, 2015, 10:03:58 am
i like the idea behind it, but it's super expensive to implement.
you'll need a controller, vent(s) for each room and their plugin/temp sensor units.
I would say 1 for each room.
depending on how big of a house you have, that could get really expensive.

For me personally, I would also want to try it out before i kept it. I'm not sure how effective it would be.
I'm not an HVAC expert, but i know there are concerns over static pressure increasing to much when closing off too many vents at once.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: clippermiami on January 26, 2015, 10:45:22 am
i like the idea behind it, but it's super expensive to implement.
you'll need a controller, vent(s) for each room and their plugin/temp sensor units.
I would say 1 for each room.
depending on how big of a house you have, that could get really expensive.

For me personally, I would also want to try it out before i kept it. I'm not sure how effective it would be.
I'm not an HVAC expert, but i know there are concerns over static pressure increasing to much when closing off too many vents at once.

I completely agree. There are a number of technical considerations with back pressure, air flow, etc., certainly and its not clear to me that I personally would save a lot in South Florida (open plan house, little heating lots of cooling, etc :) ) but it is an interesting product and I'd like to try it under the right circumstances. It is not cheap but then they haven't entered the real world of distributors, discounting, etc., yet. :)
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: hbunzel on March 05, 2015, 10:59:10 am
They do have z-wave products. http://econetcontrols.com/pricelist.php

Any hope of integrating individual vents with vera. A have a few that I'd like to control that way.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: mvader on March 06, 2015, 09:54:18 am
They do have z-wave products. http://econetcontrols.com/pricelist.php

Any hope of integrating individual vents with vera. A have a few that I'd like to control that way.

nice find.
There is another company called Keen home i think that is offering a similar product.
I see their ad on facebook, but a bunch of HVAC guys are saying it's not worth it and will cause problems with your system.
so while i think it would be a neat thing to have just for the sake of automating the home, I just spent a fortune on a new HVAC system and don't think i'll be taking any risk's with it.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Pseudomizer on January 23, 2016, 04:09:12 pm
They do have z-wave products. http://econetcontrols.com/pricelist.php

Any hope of integrating individual vents with vera. A have a few that I'd like to control that way.

nice find.
There is another company called Keen home i think that is offering a similar product.
I see their ad on facebook, but a bunch of HVAC guys are saying it's not worth it and will cause problems with your system.
so while i think it would be a neat thing to have just for the sake of automating the home, I just spent a fortune on a new HVAC system and don't think i'll be taking any risk's with it.

Has anybody tried the Keen Vents from Lowes with Vera yet?
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Dav3m on January 31, 2016, 02:09:37 pm
I just picked up a few of the keen vents, it seems like a quality constructed product; I have it working smoothly with their app at the moment, but I'm going to wait for the arrival of my VeraPlus in a few weeks to see if I can connect it up to Vera natively through the zigbee radio.

I'll report back.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: hmb on January 31, 2016, 02:56:25 pm
I just picked up a few of the keen vents, it seems like a quality constructed product...

Before investing a lot more into buying these vents (and if you haven't already done so) it is worth researching what experts in the design of HVAC systems have to say about changing the vent settings in individual rooms of a home. As has been pointed out in a few other postings in this discussion, a forced air heating/cooling system is designed to work optimally exactly as it was installed. At face value it seems these adjustable vents could be a great idea, but in reality "adjusting" the air flow with these vents will usually cause more issues than it solves and will do nothing to improve the energy efficiency of your home's heating and cooling system.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Pseudomizer on January 31, 2016, 03:45:54 pm
I just picked up a few of the keen vents, it seems like a quality constructed product...

Before investing a lot more into buying these vents (and if you haven't already done so) it is worth researching what experts in the design of HVAC systems have to say about changing the vent settings in individual rooms of a home. As has been pointed out in a few other postings in this discussion, a forced air heating/cooling system is designed to work optimally exactly as it was installed. At face value it seems these adjustable vents could be a great idea, but in reality "adjusting" the air flow with these vents will usually cause more issues than it solves and will do nothing to improve the energy efficiency of your home's heating and cooling system.

I have to disagree.  Whoever designed my home (Dr Horton) had no clue about even distribution of heat.

Huge master bedroom where the thermostat is in and 2 smaller bedrooms for the kids.

By the time the big bedroom is cooled down or heated up the small bedrooms are either oven hot or winter cold.

I will implement a logic and those vents for sure but I do agree to one point which is not to close all vents and have the pressure damage the system. Easy to control with logic so please don't bash something which IS or WILL fix a common problem in this world.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Dav3m on February 24, 2016, 09:34:48 am
I setup the VeraPlus, it does recognize the Keen Vents via zigbee and creates a device, but doesn't have an associated device type etc, so it doesn't allow you to do anything yet. I have opened a case with support a few days back to see if they can get it up and running - no word back yet. I'd be happy to get ON/OFF, Vent position 0%-100% and battery status so I can use it in scenes. If we get it working I'll post an update.

@hmb, totally agree with being careful to limit the number of vents that get shutoff at any time to avoid pressure issues in the system or better to use a bypass damper - simple to install.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Dav3m on February 27, 2016, 10:26:12 am
Support have fixed the first vent working, open / close / 0-100% level. Working in scenes, from Homewave etc. I tried adding another, but it was half detected the same way - the only options in the webgui are "Plugin Controls" | "Reviews" | "Add Review" | "Help" - so there's no way to go manually change the impl_file or device_json fields. Support didn't share what they did and I'm not sure how to set those settings from the command line. If anyone can point me to instructions on how to do that on UI7 I'd appreciate it.

I'm also not sure if this is state is common for most other ZigBee devices, I've tried 2 other battery powered zigbee devices and whilst detected they end up in the same state.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: coolwanny on February 28, 2016, 10:43:38 pm
Well, I tried, but it's not working for me at all.  I tried to add a couple of KEEN vents as generic Zigbee devices on my new Vera Plus, but my system won't recognize them at all.
Any suggestions?
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Dav3m on February 29, 2016, 01:04:15 am
Try hitting the reset button on the side of the battery holder under the vent five times to reset them. You should have a green light flashing twice if they are ready to pair.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: coolwanny on February 29, 2016, 09:23:27 am
Thanks for the quick reply, but I tried it already.
Even I refresh it by hitting the reset button 5times, still my vera plus doesn't recognize the KEEN vent.
I just realized the difference between mine and DAV3M's, he/she might have the KEEN bridge, but I don't.  I'm wondering that makes the difference.

Since KEEN vent itself is a Zicgbee product, Vera Plus should be able to connect to the vent without the KEEN bridge.
BTW, if anyone interested, Wink hub can connect to KEEN vent. not all sensors work, but at least you can open/close the vent with Wink hub as a generic zigbee device.


Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Pseudomizer on April 28, 2016, 02:45:20 pm
What's the latest on the Keen vents please? I just got my Vera plus and I would like to know if I should invest into this.

Thanks.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Nutron on May 14, 2016, 01:20:15 pm
Just received one of the Keen Smart Vents 6" x 10". Was able to pair it using the generic Zigbee tab. It paired as some sort of sensor, (I didn't pay attention as I was on a mission). In the advanced settings I changed the following to this:

device_type = urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:WindowCovering:1
device_file = D_WindowCovering1.xml
device_json = D_WindowCovering1.json

I reloaded Luup
and refreshed my browser.

WooHoo!!! it works perfectly with exception of the "UP" "STOP" "DOWN" buttons which seem to do nothing. The OPEN and CLOSE button function flawlessly as well as the slider opens or closes to any percentage I desire.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Pseudomizer on May 14, 2016, 05:38:46 pm
Just received one of the Keen Smart Vents 6" x 10". Was able to pair it using the generic Zigbee tab. It paired as some sort of sensor, (I didn't pay attention as I was on a mission). In the advanced settings I changed the following to this:

device_type = urn:schemas-micasaverde-com:device:WindowCovering:1
device_file = D_WindowCovering1.xml
device_json = D_WindowCovering1.json

I reloaded Luup
and refreshed my browser.

WooHoo!!! it works perfectly with exception of the "UP" "STOP" "DOWN" buttons which seem to do nothing. The OPEN and CLOSE button function flawlessly as well as the slider opens or closes to any percentage I desire.

Did you have to use their bridge to make it work?
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Nutron on May 15, 2016, 09:58:50 pm
No I did not. Only the VeraPlus. So far day two and no lost connectivity. Not had time yet to play with controlling it via a Scene or more preferably PLEG.

If I were more knowledgeable of the .xml or .json files & syntax, I would modify them appropriately to remove the "Up", "Stop", "Down" buttons.... Hint Hint anyone.. ;)
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: coolwanny on May 20, 2016, 03:39:49 pm
Hmm, I wonder if there was an update from Vera.   I tried to pair KEEN vent with my vera plus SO MANY TIMES, and gave up, but that was a couple of months ago.  I guess I should try it again.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: jmarty32 on May 30, 2016, 02:16:09 pm
HI everyone,

Any luck with the Keen vent? I just received one and got it to pair but when going into settings it gives me an error. It doesn't look to me like it pairs as a specific device since when i refresh the page the device disappears.  :(
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Sammy2 on June 02, 2016, 04:44:13 pm
I just picked up a few of the keen vents, it seems like a quality constructed product...

Before investing a lot more into buying these vents (and if you haven't already done so) it is worth researching what experts in the design of HVAC systems have to say about changing the vent settings in individual rooms of a home. As has been pointed out in a few other postings in this discussion, a forced air heating/cooling system is designed to work optimally exactly as it was installed. At face value it seems these adjustable vents could be a great idea, but in reality "adjusting" the air flow with these vents will usually cause more issues than it solves and will do nothing to improve the energy efficiency of your home's heating and cooling system.

I have to disagree.  Whoever designed my home (Dr Horton) had no clue about even distribution of heat.

Huge master bedroom where the thermostat is in and 2 smaller bedrooms for the kids.

By the time the big bedroom is cooled down or heated up the small bedrooms are either oven hot or winter cold.

I will implement a logic and those vents for sure but I do agree to one point which is not to close all vents and have the pressure damage the system. Easy to control with logic so please don't bash something which IS or WILL fix a common problem in this world.

I agree as well. Typical residential HVAC systems are installed by amateurs that have no clue and to be an HVAC contractor you don't need to know much, if anything, about compressible fluid hydraulics. In California you merely need to have another contractor attest that you have 4 years experience, do a little bit of studying (http://www.cslb.ca.gov/Resources/StudyGuides/C20StudyGuide.pdf) and then take and pass an exam. The systems are not designed by a mechanical engineer based on principals of mechanics but rather by looking at tables that don't apply to all situations. Oftentimes, especially in production tract work, the contractor is not even on the job site but rather has un-licensed crews do the work. This would be why some are looking into controlling the quantity of air delivered to different rooms based on the ambient conditions therein in the first place.

For example, in my house the Master Bedroom has a return air vent in the ceiling very near to the supply register. Cool air coming into the room is quickly removed and the room is not cooled. Other rooms get more supply than return as well. This system needs to be re-balanced on a room by room basis and this needs to happen in real time because in the summer it is too hot in the room and in the winter it is just right. These registers can be set to open and close based on what a combined temperature / humidity sensor is reading in the room. Do all the rooms need this? Maybe, maybe not; but this room does.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: dandroid88 on June 02, 2016, 05:58:37 pm
Just wanted to throw our hat into the smart vent (and then some) ring.

https://flair.co - we make both smart vents and the sensors you need (if you don't have any yet) to accurately control temperature across a central system, minsiplit/windowac OR hybrid systems where you might have central/minisplit/windowac/portable heaters. 

I can try and answer questions here although its easier on our forum (forum.flair.co (http://forum.flair.co)).  We are still running preorder prices and units will ship later this summer if you buy now.  Pricing is quite competitive if you manage to nab preorder pricing (40/vent, 60/Puck).  We also have some interesting plans for the Puck that will give it some pretty next level capabilities over the coming 6 months to year.

First units ship this month :)

Cheers,
Dan
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: VeniVidiVici on June 19, 2016, 03:44:28 pm
Hi Dan,

I think the MIOS component, and Z Wave in general, is something to address quickly, IMO.  I have A LOT of customers that are coming around to the idea that paying monthly fees for automation and monitoring systems is nuts, they don't want any more controllers (taking Keen out of the equation) and want to integrate into their existing, extremely flexible Z Wave systems.  I imagine you have done the studies but I'm surprised you're not chasing Z Wave options since no one else is tapping into it.  Otherwise, looks to be a solid product!!!  Now, if you do a Keen buy back program........  ;)   I made the mistake of jumping into their system and am so frustrated and let down with the Zigbee setup.

Thank you.

Heath
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: lvandeusenii on June 29, 2016, 11:55:47 am
Hi dan,

I am interested in your flair product.  I have a question though.   Will I need a vent for each of the vents in a room.  Most of the rooms have multiple vents in the walls.  Also do I need to buy a puck per room.  Do you have remote sensors.  In some of the other vendor products like eco-vents they use remote sensors plugged into the wall.  I would rather not have to depend on a sensor that was placed so close to the floor or that could be accidentally unplugged by children looking for a power outlet or the cleaning lady using the vacuum.

Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Pedals2Paddles on June 29, 2016, 09:10:41 pm
Hi all.  I'm looking for some zwave controlled vents.  It seems the much loved ecovents are no longer available.  Their timer based models are on amazon for pocket change, but nothing zwave. 
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: imazman on January 15, 2017, 09:14:41 am
I need to purchase two "smart" vents and the successful integration of the Keen Smart Vent into VERA will determine if I either...
- buy a new VeraPlus and two Keen vents, or
- just buy two timer based vents

Can anyone second the successful integration of the Keen Smart Vent?

-imazman
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: rafale77 on January 15, 2017, 12:15:46 pm
I have 6 Keen and a dozen zwave ecovents. they all work good. Though the keen requires a little work.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: Don Phillips on January 15, 2017, 07:48:01 pm
When this technology, either Flair or Ecovent, integrates with Vera, I will seriously look into it. My house is well balanced and comfortable but my office upstairs is a couple of degrees warmer.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: imazman on January 15, 2017, 11:39:06 pm
I have 6 Keen and a dozen zwave ecovents. they all work good. Though the keen requires a little work.

Can you elaborate or provide some detail to allow others to determine if the trouble is worth the means?  Or please provide a link which describe the steps that are needed to get these to work with vera.  All information greatly appreciated.

-imazman
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: bohemian on July 12, 2017, 07:34:00 pm
I have some Keen vents working with my VeraPlus running the latest firmware. Well, working might not be 100% true.

I set them up using the Window Covering device as described and they paired with very little trouble. Manual control via the slider works well and they are fairly responsive. But programmatic control is a battle I'm still fighting because for some reason I can't do anything other than fully open or fully close the vents using LUA.

It's a little weird because you are actually manipulating dimmer load targets as a proxy for the vent position, but other than simple open or closed, I can't make it work. Other than that, the vents are fine.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: rafale77 on July 12, 2017, 11:56:49 pm
I have some Keen vents working with my VeraPlus running the latest firmware. Well, working might not be 100% true.

I set them up using the Window Covering device as described and they paired with very little trouble. Manual control via the slider works well and they are fairly responsive. But programmatic control is a battle I'm still fighting because for some reason I can't do anything other than fully open or fully close the vents using LUA.

It's a little weird because you are actually manipulating dimmer load targets as a proxy for the vent position, but other than simple open or closed, I can't make it work. Other than that, the vents are fine.

That is strange... I set mine up through the house modes and use lua to program the housemodes differently depending on whether it is heating or cooling and have had no issues that way.
Title: Re: EcoVent Air Handler control
Post by: bohemian on August 07, 2017, 09:49:47 pm
This ended up resolving itself for unknown mysterious reasons. The vents work great now. If I had the skills to create a Keen Vent plugin I would, but faking it out as a Window Covering seems to work for now.