Vera - Smarter Home Control Forum

General => Pool Control => Topic started by: mcoulter on February 20, 2010, 11:14:19 am

Title: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on February 20, 2010, 11:14:19 am
I went to the Orlando Pool/Spa Show yesterday and got to get my hands on the new Intermatic MultiWave system. It is a small 5 relay multi-instance switch.  It works out of the box with their new zwave remote (improved over Iwave model).  The controller can manage and report water temperature on the fly.  The device also has an RS485 input for additional expantion of devices that can all be controlled by the Zwave remote. The remote allows for extensive expansion of scenes and pages for each device it adds.  The pool controller has a detatchable antenna housing on the top of the unit so that you can place the antenna at a better location and attach it to the unit via Ethernet cable.  They plan to add an additional Eth. jack to the antenna so that you could essitianlly daisy chain to other antennas to create a zwave web of repeaters. 

I just hope that MCV can get some optimal control over this equipment and still allow the remote to function as designed.  It is supposed to be available in April.

Here is a link to the product sheet for anyone interested in this type of equipment: http://www.poolandspacontrols.com/
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: ASIHome on June 25, 2010, 01:32:15 pm
We are getting more info on these and I will post as I find out more.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: ASIHome on June 28, 2010, 01:03:12 pm
These are up on the site now. MCV needs to verify support.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: zwave-user on June 28, 2010, 09:05:26 pm
Does anyone have this?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on June 28, 2010, 09:35:34 pm
Yes, we have several that we are testing and installing.  They are not operating correctly with VERA out-of-the-box due to all of the multi-channels and features.  MCV is looking into one of my units and is actively working on getting it running with VERA as we speak. 

As far as using it with the PE953 Controller, it works great.  Intermatic is planning to make some modifications already for a few more features to release next year.  As for now, this does the trick.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Remote Owner on August 04, 2010, 07:23:15 pm
I'm very interested in how this is working and have been looking for a Z-wave compliant pool control system.

Any recent status on how this is working?  What had to be done to configure the system to connect to vera?  Can you post the configuration used?

Can you post a picture/video of what the vera controls looked like?

Thank you.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: zmistro on August 04, 2010, 09:04:18 pm
It's been out for a while from what I was told. I took an online class last fall for it.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on August 05, 2010, 06:23:44 am
The ball is in Intermatic's court right now but they are communicating with MCV each step of the way (pretty much daily now) and figuring out how to get all of the features available for VERA.  Currently MCV has been able to capture and control all five relays.  So that is what you would get out-of-the-box with UI4's latest release.  Intermatic is working on helping control the heat pump settings as well.

I can post more info as they get closer.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: ASIHome on August 05, 2010, 08:07:10 am
I believe they were working on getting the temperature to show up as well.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: gooddoc on August 29, 2010, 10:54:02 pm
Bump.  Any new updates on the vera compliance?

Thx
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on September 13, 2010, 08:13:47 pm
Hi Folks,

Does anyone have an update on what channels Vera can control on this unit now? Looks like the last update was a little over a month ago so I'm wondering if there has been any progress made?

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on September 14, 2010, 06:52:54 am
Intermatic is modifying their code now to accommodate all five switches and the temperature controls.  They are supposed to get me a test unit with the beta firmware here in October.  They will not be releasing the new firmware though until they have added some more features that are being included in their next release.  I do not know how far down the pike that is though.  I will update the progress as soon as my test unit arrives.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on September 14, 2010, 09:47:15 am
Intermatic is modifying their code now to accommodate all five switches and the temperature controls.  They are supposed to get me a test unit with the beta firmware here in October.  They will not be releasing the new firmware though until they have added some more features that are being included in their next release.  I do not know how far down the pike that is though.  I will update the progress as soon as my test unit arrives.

Thanks for the reply.

Any idea if that means we will have to purchase new units too or will it simply be a firmware upgrade? I am purchasing a unit now as they are finishing up my pool/spa as we speak so I need to get something on there. It would be a shame if they make us buy all new hardware when this functionality comes out.

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: ASIHome on September 14, 2010, 10:05:26 am
Not that this is absolute but I was under the impression that these were flash updateable through the handheld.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on September 14, 2010, 11:04:33 am
Not that this is absolute but I was under the impression that these were flash updateable through the handheld.

I sure hope so, that would be great.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: SRACP on September 26, 2010, 01:35:43 pm
This is all nice. What about those of us who need a simple pump on/off like the Intermatic CA3750? I can't beleive we still don't have a simple device to turn a pool pump on or off.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on October 09, 2010, 08:37:46 am
Ok, I'm back with more...

I just got the Beta firmware from Intermatic.  All of the switches report the proper status feedback and are controllable as expected.  There is still not a Heat Pump Set Point and Current Temp being displayed in Vera but this may just be a modification request with Vera at this time so I will try to push the ball back to their court and keep the dialog open between MCV and Intermatic.

Also, those still looking for a CA3750 should know that apparently RCS picked up the unit and are selling it under the model PMC30-ZW.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on October 09, 2010, 12:06:42 pm
Ok, and as for the heat pump control, MCV has responded (very quickly I might add :)) to adding this to the code and hopefully they will be able to start working on this in 2-3 weeks after some other current bugs are dealt with. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mda on October 09, 2010, 12:34:47 pm
Great news! Are they working on Current Temp display too?

Will we be able to create a scene such as "Spa on" that will trigger it to go to its spa mode vs "Spa off" that will return it to the pool mode? Or if we can't access the device's modes can we at least make a scene that says "turn pump 1 on, switch valves 1 and 2 to the left, and set temp to x"? Thanks for any info.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on October 09, 2010, 03:43:40 pm
They will work on current temp as well.

As for now, you can already handle the Spa mode with one switch.  It is already something that you set up locally within the PE653. It automatically switches your actuators and switches your heat pump from the pool set temp to the spa set temp.

So if you have your heat pump settings already set on the PE953 remote and switch your pool to spa mode on Vera, then you will see the heat pump automatically turn on as well.  So in a sense the Vera will tell you when the pool is heating.  We are just waiting on the ability to know the current temp and be able to adjust the temp settings within Vera.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Remote Owner on October 22, 2010, 12:16:30 pm
I have a running dialog with the Multi-wave tech support/developers (815) 675-7000 and they recently told me that they completed tests with Vera and that their pool controller system can (1) read and set temperatures (2) change actuators - like "pool to spa" and "filter pump on/off as well as (3) turn on pool/spa/aux lights.

This is really good news for me.

I specifically asked what I would need to control my Goldline Control AQL-PS4 controller and they are getting back to me.

They did mention that Vera needed a software upgrade to make the features run and that was a Micasaverde task.  Any news on when that may be available?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on October 22, 2010, 01:24:00 pm
Remote Owner,
It has been two weeks since I posted about MCV being able to start working within 2-3 weeks on the project.  So I will see if I can get an update. 

Incidentally,  you reminded me that Intermatic has been testing against a Vera2 that I sent them so I need to ask for that back, now that they are done with it, before I forget! :)

Let you know as soon as I know anything new.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on October 27, 2010, 02:20:32 pm
Any idea when the software is going to be released? I'm trying to decide if I should keep these units or not right now. So far they are really disappointing me. They work together quite well but I’ve found a couple of show-stoppers for me and I’m wondering if any of them are being fixed.  One is that the controller won’t work with any of the Intermatic Z-Wave older units (HA02 etc.), I spoke to their tech support and they tell me “sometimes it they work and sometimes they don’t”, I have about 20 of these units and none of them work with the controller I have, why call it “Z-Wave compatible” if it’s not?. The second and more serious thing to me is the fact that you can’t set the temperature of the spa or pool below 50 degrees on the controller. So if the water falls below that temperature in either the pool or the spa (which even in Arizona where I live it will do in winter) the heater will kick in and try to keep the water at 50 degrees, which could be quite costly 24/7 with propane. I just spoke to Intermatic tech support and their answer was “you’ll have to pull the breaker in winter if you don’t want the heater to come on under 50 degrees”. So what’s the point of having a control unit if every time I want to go in the spa in winter I have to walk around and manually switch on the breaker (doh!).

If any of you folks know anything I don’t about these problems I would really appreciate your input.

Thanks,

Mark
 ???
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on November 02, 2010, 12:38:05 pm
I am still waiting to hear back on whether or not MCV will be working out these issues anytime soon. 

MarkC,
I have had a couple of HA02's behave flaky but I only use plugin modules for testing so I do not rely on them long term but I could see that being a problem for your setup.  Perhaps someone has a handle on other plugins that behave consistently. 

As for the Pool Controller you do have the 50 degree limit locked in.  I am in south Florida where they are marketing these units locally so we do not have a problem with the temp that low as many of the pool heat pumps only dial down to 60 degrees if you ran them directly.  What you could do is add a 220 Zwave switch to the power side of the Heater and flip it off and on (enable/disable).

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: ksquared on November 04, 2010, 04:55:30 pm
Has anyone actually installed one of these yet?  I'm very intrigued, and the roughly $350 price point seems excellent.

One other question--does the remote control work independent of Z-wave?  In other words, I'm wondering if Vera/Z-wave network went down whether this could be controlled using the primary remote controller, which appears to have built-in timer functions.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on November 04, 2010, 05:08:05 pm
Has anyone actually installed one of these yet?  I'm very intrigued, and the roughly $350 price point seems excellent.

One other question--does the remote control work independent of Z-wave?  In other words, I'm wondering if Vera/Z-wave network went down whether this could be controlled using the primary remote controller, which appears to have built-in timer functions.

I have one installed and it works for the most part. It just has some dumb settings and doesn't work well with other z-wave devices. I would not buy one again.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: zmistro on November 04, 2010, 06:25:26 pm
The Multi-wave training person insisted they would not prohibit workinig with other Zwave devices. He went further to cliam that they will work well with other Zwave products.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on November 04, 2010, 07:25:18 pm
The Multi-wave training person insisted they would not prohibit workinig with other Zwave devices. He went further to cliam that they will work well with other Zwave products.

They told me the same thing before I bought the unit, then it was "oh deal, that doesn't seem to work does it". I have 20 if the Intermaitc appliance modules (indoor and outdoor) and my unit won't work with any of them. Made by the same company as the pool controller.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: zmistro on November 04, 2010, 07:27:50 pm
so what modules do work!

Why did I waste my time in the training class. That's what you get on the internet.

Is there any product  in Zwave that works without a hastle?

Cmon FOLKS.... GEEZ.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on November 04, 2010, 07:51:18 pm
so what modules do work!

Why did I waste my time in the training class. That's what you get on the internet.

Is there any product  in Zwave that works without a hastle?

Cmon FOLKS.... GEEZ.


Hey, none of my business, why did you waste your time in training class?  You asked a question, I answered it.  If you don't want answers you don't like, don't ask questions.

I won't bother answering next time, that's for sure.


Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: zmistro on November 04, 2010, 10:49:15 pm
why the hastle.

I took the class last fall. I took the class to learn about the product. The product claime to be Zwave compatable. I take these webinairs to keep up with things. Spoke to the instructor afterwards. I am very suprised your modules don't work.


My sarcasam was not directed at you. It was directed at Zwave products.
If I offended you I am sorry.

i would however like to know what zwave products work with the system today if you know.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: neilios on December 01, 2010, 10:17:56 pm
Remote Owner,
It has been two weeks since I posted about MCV being able to start working within 2-3 weeks on the project.  So I will see if I can get an update. 

Incidentally,  you reminded me that Intermatic has been testing against a Vera2 that I sent them so I need to ask for that back, now that they are done with it, before I forget! :)

Let you know as soon as I know anything new.

Do you have an update on this?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on December 05, 2010, 05:44:05 pm
I have a running dialog with the Multi-wave tech support/developers (815) 675-7000 and they recently told me that they completed tests with Vera and that their pool controller system can (1) read and set temperatures (2) change actuators - like "pool to spa" and "filter pump on/off as well as (3) turn on pool/spa/aux lights.

This is really good news for me.

I specifically asked what I would need to control my Goldline Control AQL-PS4 controller and they are getting back to me.

They did mention that Vera needed a software upgrade to make the features run and that was a Micasaverde task.  Any news on when that may be available?


Hi,

Did the software for the pool controler every get released?

Thanks for your help,

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on December 06, 2010, 07:05:21 am
There has been no modification to control the Multi-wave's temp settings at this time. 

I have tried to get a response back from Vera but have heard nothing in two months now.  I take it that their current builds and patches are keeping them busy, however I would like to know that the issue is in a queue somewhere and an ETA would be nice as well.

I do not know if there is a way to control the temp settings in the advanced settings.  The Temperature and Set Temp do display in Advanced but I do not know if that allows for any manipulation. 

Wish I knew more...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on December 06, 2010, 07:34:17 am
There has been no modification to control the Multi-wave's temp settings at this time. 

I have tried to get a response back from Vera but have heard nothing in two months now.  I take it that their current builds and patches are keeping them busy, however I would like to know that the issue is in a queue somewhere and an ETA would be nice as well.

I do not know if there is a way to control the temp settings in the advanced settings.  The Temperature and Set Temp do display in Advanced but I do not know if that allows for any manipulation. 

Wish I knew more...

Hi,

Thanks for the reply.

I don't think I was very clear about my question but I meant to ask; was the firmware for the pool control from Intermatic released yet? The update to the controller and the hand set that at least lets you get at the information you have with the beta?

Thanks again for your help,

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on December 06, 2010, 04:20:58 pm
Yes, version 3.0 is out of beta now.  I was on version 2.8 orginally with my Intermatic unit.  They were testing me with the beta of the 3.0.  If you buy a new Multi-wave unit it will ship with 3.0,  however you can upgrade via a PC based software with a USB controller stick if you have an earlier version.

I'm using the latest general release of UI4 as far as Vera goes.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on December 06, 2010, 04:46:11 pm
Yes, version 3.0 is out of beta now.  I was on version 2.8 orginally with my Intermatic unit.  They were testing me with the beta of the 3.0.  If you buy a new Multi-wave unit it will ship with 3.0,  however you can upgrade via a PC based software with a USB controller stick if you have an earlier version.

I'm using the latest general release of UI4 as far as Vera goes.

Thanks! That's good news. I can't seem to find the download on the Intermatic web site, can you point me to it please?

Thanks again,


Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on December 13, 2010, 08:43:53 pm
Hi,

I got the 3.0 version of the software and I have now updated both of my units. I am now trying to figure out how to connect it to my vera. Do I connect the vera as a second controller?

Any tips would be helpful.

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mario23 on December 18, 2010, 10:26:52 am
I'm interested in this upgrade too.
It seems that nothing is being done with it on the MCV side though...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on December 18, 2010, 11:52:36 am
I have the upgrade, if you contact Frank at Intermatic support he'll probably send it to you.

I would just like to know how to include my vera with it so I can use both the remote control and Vera to control it, not having much luck though.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on December 21, 2010, 07:01:11 am
MarkC, 
I added the Main controller to the Vera first, then I added the Remote to the vera second.  Then I just went into the setup on the Remote and did an Add Device for the Main Conroller. 

You should see the Remote in secondary controller mode as it will have an S in the upper right corner of the screen next to the software version.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on December 21, 2010, 07:07:58 am
mario23,
I am no longer getting any communication back from MCV on adding the controls for these features.  It is sad to be so close and yet so far.

In my imagination, I see the MCV team working hard to get some major release done.  I hope that is what is going on there, because otherwise I do not know why they are so disconnected with the users for the past several months.

I has high hopes when the started the "blog" but that seemed to last a day :(

MCV, we love you guys and want to hear from you!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on December 21, 2010, 09:59:29 am
mcoulter,

Thanks, I will try that and see if it works for me.

On the MCV team: are we sure they are still in business? I haven't seem them post in forever.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mario23 on December 21, 2010, 10:39:43 am
That's always been my concern with MCV as well.
I've been looking around in case I need to switch up.
Homeseer among others...just in case...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on February 11, 2011, 10:04:49 pm
Note: Currently these instructions only work with the 2.78 z-wave firmware. I haven't gotten this to work with the 3.20 z-wave firmware.

I just got this working! I specifically bought the multi-wave pool controller and vera so I could control and monitor my pool remotely.

It took me quite a bit of trial and error to get this working. My biggest issue was I had already installed and programmed the pool controller and remote and they were working perfectly. I really didn't want to wipe out the config. These were the only z-wave devices in my house.

I could not get vera to include the pool receiver (the pe653 receiver installed at the pool power box). The include light on the pe653 indicated that it had successfully been included, but vera didn't see it. Finally I reluctantly reset the pe953 remote and pe653 receiver to the factory defaults and then vera was able to include and control it. People more knowledgeable than me with vera and z-wave might be able to do this without resetting the pool devices, but after a frustrating day I gave up, reset them and it just worked.

So, for others interested in doing this, here are the steps I took to get vera talking to this device. For the record, I have version 31 of the pool controller firmware and 1183 of the vera firmware.

1. Reset the pe953 and pe653 to the factory defaults. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR EXISTING POOL PROGRAMMING BY DOING THIS!

2. Include the pe653 receiver as a z-wave device in vera. you should see 6 new devices: 5 appliance devices (one for each circuit) and a _Pool Control device.

3. Include the pe953 remote as a new controller in vera. Start vera looking for a new controller. on the pe953 remote, enter the config screens, go to the CNTRL OPTION screen and select 2 - CONTROLLER COPY. Press 2 again to receive the network config. It should say successful after a few seconds. I had to pull the batteries out to reset the remote after doing this. the manual says it should reset automatically once successful. YMMV. after the remote reboots, it should say XXS in the upper right corner of the screen, where XX is the remote's fw version.

4. Link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote. Enter the config screens on the pe953, press 3 to include a device, and press the include button on the pe953 receiver.

That should do it. You should now be able to control the pe653 again with the remote. You can now reprogram the pool controller.

The only remaining issue I have is I can't see the air and water temps in vera.

Is this possible?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on March 08, 2011, 12:28:57 pm
@dkeefe

How many valves can you control?  Is this made available to vera or just within the Unit itself?  i.e. in vera do I see valve 1-5 or am I simply executing a "scene" 1-5?  that the multiwave then does some complex valve switching?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on March 16, 2011, 04:21:30 pm
sorry for the late response. I just saw your question.

I honestly don't know because I don't have any valve actuators (pool only, no spa).

in theory, you could control up to 5 valves (one with each circuit).

vera's control of the multiwave is pretty minimal. I'm pretty disappointed with it right now. it allows you to control the 5 circuits, but doesn't report pool or air temp or allow you to set the heater temp. also, I don't see how you could switch between pool or spa mode.

what is weird though is an earlier version of home buddy allowed me to set the heater temp. an update to home buddy came out and I lost that feature. :(

I have been kind of waiting for the next firmware release before I contact mcv for assistance with the temps.

otherwise I'm very happy with the multiwave pool controller and I'm pretty sure my issues are with vera, not the multwave. intermatic is still developing it and adding features, which also impresses me. they told me that solar heat control is planned for a future release.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on March 16, 2011, 09:07:11 pm
@dkeefe,
I've been working with MCV and Intermatic for a while now trying to get the temp controls managed, you should at see some of the temp data if you look under the advanced tab so it is really close now.  I'm not sure exactly how close they are to making modifications or if they still need Intermatic's assistance but I have those groups in some communication along with a Multi-wave vendor (Autopilot calls the system Pool Commander) and there is joint interest in getting this resolved.

@aschwalb,
There is an additional module to purchase for actuator control.  I believe that each module can run three actuators (two for certain).  The module is just wired to one of the relays, typically number 4.  If you have a Heat Pump then that takes up relay 5 which is switched to a low voltage signal.  That leaves you with relays 1-3 for other pool equipment.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on March 17, 2011, 09:36:01 am
mcoulter,

that is great news! I'm really glad to hear that they are still working on this.

Now that you point it out, I do see the pool temp and heater set point in the advanced tab with 1224. air temp is still missing. I never noticed that before, but it must have been there in 1183 because home buddy could see and set it about two months ago.

My other compliant with how vera handles the main controller device is why does it think there is something it can turn on and off? I don't see what this does. it is just confusing.

regarding the valves, I can't figure out if the valve controller can control three valves individually or not. from reading the manuals for both, it seems it can't. the multiwave manual implies that only valves required to switch from pool to spa mode are supported. if you wanted control of more valves, it looks like you would need more valve controllers wired to different circuits. seems like a pretty expensive solution.

It isn't very clear, though.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on March 18, 2011, 04:12:00 pm
dkeefe,

The Actuator controller will handle three actuators but they are all running together so they are essentially sharing one switch which is of course designed primarily for pool/spa combos.  Sometimes we are using them for waterfall features as well.  Sorry, I didn't mean to imply that they operate individually. 

The main switch to the unit on the Vera just triggers relay 1 the same as the first child switch.  However if you press the physical relay 1 button on the PE653, the Vera only polls it on the child switch.  So I have recommended that they remove that or replace that switch data with the temp settings.  Still waiting to hear something back.  I do keep up with my pestering :) 

I try not to push to much on this knowing there are other Zwave issues in the world, but it is tough to be so close yet so far away...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on March 18, 2011, 04:31:04 pm
@mcoulter

So that would mean (assuming 3 actuators) I could control 6 valves but would take up 2 of the function relays.  ie. since I need to move 5 valves to go between spa and pool mode I would use 4 of the 5 relays... (relay 1 3 valves, relay 2 2 valves).  The actuator control unit then just tells the 3 valves which position to go in?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on March 18, 2011, 04:32:03 pm
You didn't confuse me about the valve controller. I was pretty sure that was how it worked. You just confirmed my suspicions. Thanks!

We have fountains in our pool and I've thought about adding a valve actuator to it, but it seems a little silly to me to spend ~$300 to turn some fountains (which we never use) on and off remotely.

Thanks for working with mcv about this. They are pretty close to getting this right...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on March 18, 2011, 04:36:23 pm
@mcoulter

So that would mean (assuming 3 actuators) I could control 6 valves but would take up 2 of the function relays.  ie. since I need to move 5 valves to go between spa and pool mode I would use 4 of the 5 relays... (relay 1 3 valves, relay 2 2 valves).  The actuator control unit then just tells the 3 valves which position to go in?

if you need to change 5 valves to switch between pool and spa mode, then you would need 5 actuators (one for each valve) and 2 valve controllers (each valve controller can handle up to 3 valves).

the pe653 only uses one circuit (circuit #4) to switch between the modes. you would wire both valve controllers in parallel to this circuit.

if you need to do staggering of the valve operation, then I'm not sure this would work.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on March 18, 2011, 05:28:25 pm
@dkeefe

I dont need to stagger just have 5 valves move to a position for Pool mode and another position for Spa mode.  So does output #4 have mode 1 and mode 2? i.e. the valve controllers when multiwave relay #4 is in mode 1 will move each valve actuator to a fixed position and in mode2 move to another?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on March 18, 2011, 05:37:14 pm
no, the circuit is either off (open) in pool mode or on (closed) in spa mode.

the valve controller sets the valves one way when the input is energized and the other when it isn't.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on March 18, 2011, 08:22:58 pm
after studying the actuators, I now understand how they work.

all you really need are 5 actuators, a 24vac 75va transformer and a relay to make your setup work.

intermatic's valve controller has a whole bunch of extra stuff that we don't need, which partly explains why it is rather expensive.

I think I came up with a fun little project for myself this weekend! :D

woohoo! automated fountains here I come!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on March 18, 2011, 09:10:55 pm
dkeefe,
I think I know where you are heading with this so let me supplement your project.  First, as you probably are now aware, the actuators are always on they require a double throw switch so that they always have 24v in one direction or the other. 

Over two years ago, prior to the Multiwave, I did an installation where I switched the valves using an Intermatic CA3000 switch and then followed the diagram seen on page 12 of this Jandy guide: http://www.jandy-downloads.com/pdfs/JVAmanual.pdf (http://www.jandy-downloads.com/pdfs/JVAmanual.pdf). 

I used the switch in place of the time clock in the diagram and put the project in a watertight box.  I actually used the same switch for changing the heat pump settings but since you have the MultiWave that step isn't needed.  And now you can obviously just replace my CA3000 with the relay on the MultiWave.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on March 19, 2011, 08:32:49 am
mcoulter,

thanks! I found that diagram earlier yesterday and was what led me to my solution. I could do it with just the pe653 and no relay, but that would use two circuits. a double throw relay makes it so I'll only need one circuit.

the p3653 provides power to close the relay. on the contact side, I have 24 vac connected to the common. the no contact goes to one of the actuator power wires and the nc contact goes to the other.

thanks again!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: uskiman on April 06, 2011, 03:29:07 pm
Everyone,

I ran across your forum, joined, and now hope I can help with your MultiWave questions.  I guess I’ll start with who I am, my name is Allen and I’m in charge of the MultiWave design/programming. 

To answer your first question about the actuators, we do offer a P4043ME or PE140 control that works with a single switch and includes a 40VA 24VAC transformer and circuit board to control up to three actuators simultaneously.  This is a stripped down version of the controller Matt was talking about and should fill your requirements at a reasonable price. 

We continue to make program enhancements to the MultiWave in order to communicate with more equipment and also maximize the Vera interface so stay tuned.  We have come a long way with Matt’s help as the mediator between us and Vera. 

In the near future, you should stay tuned for updates on the following website http://www.poolandspacontrols.com/downloads.aspx for the latest version of software for your MultiWave system.

I apologize for not signing up sooner to your website and helping you out but I just found out this site exists! 

I don’t check this site often, but when I do, I will help when I can.

Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 06, 2011, 03:44:55 pm
Hi Allen,

Welcome! Thank you so much for posting here!

Is the pe140 just a p4043me in a metal enclosure? It isn't clear to me what the difference is between the two with the little I can find out about them by googling.

I found the pe140 for $200, but I haven't found anywhere selling the p4043me. $200 is still pretty expensive for what you get.

Also, do you have any eta for solar support?

Thanks again for your help!

P.S. you can subscribe to this thread so you get an email whenever someone posts.  This way don't have to keep checking.



Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on April 06, 2011, 03:51:32 pm
Hey Allen,
Good to see you virtually :)  

Thanks for your interest in working with Vera and joining the conversations here.  I do hope that the MCV folk are close to having time to work with you on bringing your full feature set to their platform.  It is more aggressive equipment than other Z-wave devices but there is certainly a great deal of value in having strong compatibility between these components.  

I know that the Autopilot team is equally hoping that someone will round out these features before other competition comes along.  I was talking to a Hayward rep the other day and he showed me a demo of their Beta phase product with a wireless-to-lan controller for their equipment that would allow for remote control (via browser, ipad, etc.) of all pool/spa/heat controls as well as PH/ORP readings and salt levels if applicable.  I'm not sure what kind of wireless communication they are using for their equipment but I do hope that a well rounded z-wave solution gets to market first.

Thanks as always for your time,
Matt
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: uskiman on April 21, 2011, 12:48:13 pm
Hello everyone,

I’ve been out of town, so sorry for the delay.  Here are some answers for all of you.

dkeefe,

Yes!  The PE140 is nothing more than a P4043ME in an outside approved rain tight enclosure.  The $200 dollar price tag you found it for may be a bit expensive, but unfortunately I don’t have control over the sales price at both the internet and distributor level.  However, there isn’t anyone I’m aware of that offers just an actuator controller with a generic interface.  If you think about it, other than building it yourself, the only way you can get actuator control is by purchasing a large control system which is much more than $200 and usually more then what you need.

The ETA on the solar support will be about a year.  We need to redesign the P4043ME circuit board to work with the 485 connection on the MultiWave.  This will allow us to speak to each individual actuator instead of all three at one time.  Once we can assign an address to each actuator, we can then provide the solar programming support to the MultiWave.  Anyone who owns a MultiWave now will be able to update their software and purchase the proper circuit board from us and swap it out of the P4043ME they currently have installed.  All P4043ME models will come equipped with the new board once the new board is complete. 

I will try to setup the email alert when someone posts.  Problem is, my IT dept. may have something to say about that!  I’ll do what I can.

mcoulter,

Thanks for the welcome.  Yes I was aware of the Hayward progress and my best guess on the wireless communication they would be using is most likely propitiatory.  As you know, none of the three players have any desire to communicate outside of their control. 

Everyone, Keep the questions coming and I will do the best I can to answer more frequently.  Our goal is to complete this system and work with Vera as much as possible.  The industry needs an open system and we are busy working on the high end system which should bring more power to your finger tips.

Allen
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 21, 2011, 02:35:09 pm
@uskiman


Thanks again:  Am looking for a solution that allows me to switch between pool/spa mode and pool with Kreepy and without Kreepy running...  Total of 5 valves.  Am happy to wait for the re-design, what pieces can I get today to do some and what will be better to wait on?  One of the tricky issues is that one of the valves has three main position to be in (return water valve, main, spa or both)  Can the actuators support this?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: uskiman on April 21, 2011, 04:50:16 pm
aschwalb,

I can’t remember, is the Kreepy a pressure side cleaner that needs a booster pump?  Or is it just a vacuum side cleaner?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 21, 2011, 05:03:52 pm
@uskiman,

just needs a valve switched.  Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on April 21, 2011, 05:08:37 pm
Hey Allen,
Just installed another Multiwave today!  I was wondering if you have had any further communication with MiCasaVerde regarding controlling the temperature set points.  I have emailed them and am confused if they think you need to provide more information of if they are just needed to do some more work on their end. 

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 22, 2011, 02:52:40 pm
One of the tricky issues is that one of the valves has three main position to be in (return water valve, main, spa or both)  Can the actuators support this?

I think that may be a problem. All of the vales I've seen only stop at two positions, not three. Based on how they operate, I don't think that would be possible.

I think you would need to put the kreepy on it's own 2 port valve and add another actuator.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 22, 2011, 02:53:33 pm
Thanks again Allen.

I'm glad to see that you guys are still working on it.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 25, 2011, 12:27:11 pm
One of the tricky issues is that one of the valves has three main position to be in (return water valve, main, spa or both)  Can the actuators support this?

I think that may be a problem. All of the vales I've seen only stop at two positions, not three. Based on how they operate, I don't think that would be possible.

I think you would need to put the kreepy on it's own 2 port valve and add another actuator.

This is for the return.  Return is plumped to go to Spa and Pool with one Jandy valve.  If I want water circulating to both the valve is in the middle.  If I want just pool then close off SPa if I want just Spa then close off the Pool side other wise in the middle... 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 25, 2011, 02:12:46 pm
ok, but my statement still stands - I haven't seen an actuator that can stop at more than two positions.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 25, 2011, 02:42:50 pm
@dkeefe

gotchya...  Does it matter if if the two positions are 90 degrees apart versus 180?.  Then I could do two postions.  Middle and spa only.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 25, 2011, 02:52:09 pm
no. they are all "programmable". you can set the stops in most at 90 degree increments.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on April 25, 2011, 05:53:23 pm
You can actually set them to any degree you want.   You have to take off the outer shell and set the degree points for the upper and lower microswitch positions however they best manage your flow for your needs.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 28, 2011, 11:21:19 am
Ok then

To take a baby step in pool control.  Do I just buy the MultiWave and use it as the pump timer and then later add valve control etc...?  I want to put my pump at least under Vera control to start (I realize the I just buy a pump start relay and add a zwave relay to it).  I will want to do valve control later so I would start with the multiwave.  Do I need to buy a relay to control a 220v pump or is that built in?  Does Vera support this ok?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 02, 2011, 01:23:05 am
Hey Allen,

Been about a year now, updated the PE953 and PE653 to the latest rev.  had control of the individual relays with status feedback, but seems like we are still missing some key items.  Still don't see a way to read the temps.  The doc you sent out last year says the PE653 supports the Command Class Sensor Multistate for the Temperature.  Do you know if that is supported and what the variable name is we would request from the PE653?  I also don't see anything on the Z-Wave side for monitoring or controlling the VFD speeds.  Is that something that is planned?

Thanks in advance



Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: uskiman on May 02, 2011, 10:49:55 am
Hello everyone!

I see a lot has gone on since I last posted.  I’ll try and catch up.

aschwalb, I asked if this cleaner was a pressure side cleaner only because if it is, there are special requirements about running this cleaner when you are in spa mode.  In other words, the cleaner must be disengaged when you change your water valves to spa.  I’ll try to answer on the info I have.  If you just need to turn a single water valve, you can purchase an Intermatic PE140 and connect the trigger line to any available circuit on your controller.  Since our trigger line only requires 120VAC, you can piggy back the trigger line with a load (i.e. pump, light, etc…) and engage both the actuator and load simultaneously.  Let me know if this answers your question.

mcoulter, I have always went through you when communicating with MiCasaVerde so I haven’t heard anything from them.  I have to assume they are not very familiar with Pool/Spa applications and information when it comes to controls, so due to my busy schedule, I’ve counted on you to educate them and decipher their needs and relay that information to me for execution. 

dkeefe,  I agree with you.  I haven’t heard of a three position actuator either but would love to design one!  Not sure if you guys would we be willing to pay for it.  :)  In any case, to do what aschwalb wants, based on what’s available today, you would need to separate valves controlled by two separate actuators. 

mculter wrote:
You can actually set them to any degree you want.   You have to take off the outer shell and set the degree points for the upper and lower microswitch positions however they best manage your flow for your needs.

Matt is correct.  The two cams on the inside of the Intermatic actuator can be adjusted to any position allowing you to rotate to virtually any degree. 

aschwalb,  You are correct in saying you could just buy a pump relay and add a Zwave relay to it, however, you would not have any timing features or any relationship features once you start adding additional components or control. 
There are actually five dry contract relays in the MultiWave, all are capable of handling 120Vac or 240Vac, so to answer your questions, yes the MultiWave comes equipped with a 220V pump relay.
Does Vera support this OK?  I believe it does, but I defer this question to mcoulter since he is more knowledgeable about this part of the question. 

NovaIceman,  Is this Robert from Nova Systems?  Glad to hear from you again.
I agree some features are still missing and we are working with Vera, through Matt, to get these features identified and implemented.  Unfortunately this is a process and as more users come onboard, the pressure will increase to get Vera to modify some of its display code.  We will continue to make the changes necessary to our code to make the Zwave system work as intended.  I don’t see any reason why we couldn’t give the VFD speed information to Vera to display or modify.  The change would need to come on their side as to how they would like to display this info.  All the information we acquire will be available to any Zwave controller for display.  It will be up to the controller manufacture to want to modify their unit for this type of display information.  This is still in the plan; however, we are busy adding new code to control additional OEM equipment.  All smart AutoPilot chlorinators will be online soon, and the remaining OEM VS pumps will follow shortly.   
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: uskiman on May 02, 2011, 10:59:57 am
aschwalb, I apologize, I hit the sent button to quickly!  The relay configuration of the MultiWave is not of the true Dry Contact nature as you may understand it.  Dry contact is a term I’ve used from the old days, but I’ve heard electricians use independent contact or switch contact also.  In any case, the contacts in the MultiWave are designed to switch out the HOT leg only on either a 120Vac or 240Vac installation.  We do inherently feed relays 1&2 with the 120Vac hot leg because we tap off the power source for the MultiWave to get this potential.  However, relays 3, 4 and 5 have to be fed independently by the installer, which makes them true dry contacts.  I probably thoroughly confused you and I apologize, but it may make sense to others.  To answer your questions, YES, we have the relays available to control your pump and many other different loads. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 02, 2011, 04:06:10 pm
novaiceman,

you can see the water temp in the advanced tab for the main device. you can also set the heater temp there.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on May 03, 2011, 03:06:39 pm
I will try to reach MCV again and see if they are working on any interface changes to assist with the temperature controls.  If anyone else has a hold of their ear right now see if you can ask them about this.  Every time I think I am close to getting some feedback from them, I end up with months of radio silence.  I know they are busy but a little "we are still working on this" once in a while wouldn't hurt.  I usually get "let me see where the developers are" and then nothing until I send an annoying amount of email again.  I don't try to bug busy people but in this case I am forced to.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 04, 2011, 02:55:34 pm
Thanks dkeefe,

I see it now that I am at the latest rev.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on May 22, 2011, 03:37:13 pm
I have just installed a PE653/953 Intermatic pool controller. Everything seems to be working fine (still waiting to install heater control wiring). My problem is that I have been unable to synch it with my z wave controller Vera2. any help out there? I have also noticed the antenna is quite weak. 20 ft max with no obstructions.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 23, 2011, 08:53:55 am
I posted instructions a few pages back. If you have already setup up the remote and controller, you need to reset them to factory defaults before they will join the network.

I noticed the range is pretty poor as well. However once you get it in the network, it should work much better.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on May 23, 2011, 09:31:59 am
Thanks. I will reset both and try again. Do I synch to the Vera2 first, that is before synching the handheld controller?

I also encountered an issue when connecting the Aqua Pro 1300 heat pump. Worked first try but then shows a code "rhp" whenever I have the wires attached. I confirmed the wiring and that it is 24vac thermostat type.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 23, 2011, 09:34:36 am
yeah, I think so. you'd have to read my instructions.

circuit 5 is just a relay. it doesn't care what voltage you are switching. it sounds like you heater wiring is wrong.

what does rhp mean?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on May 23, 2011, 09:45:10 am
Not sure what it means. I will call today. I am confident that I wired it correctly. The heater manual explitily stated the remote control connections. I will hunt through for your instructions. I have read the entire thread several times. :)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on May 23, 2011, 01:04:03 pm
Thanks DKeefe. It is up and working. Your instructions worked to a T, including having to remove the batteries to get the remote unfrozen.

I called AquaPro people to sort out the heater issue. The code I saw was only indicating that remote contol was installed. No issue there! Everything seems to be okay as I can turn the pump on and off with my phone or PC.

Question, do you program the pool pump on/off times with the remote of with Mios? I live 1200 miles from the installation site, and would like to have as much remote capability as possible.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 23, 2011, 01:39:17 pm
I let the multiwave control the pump, light and heater. This way the pool is guaranteed to operate correctly without the vera and can be completely controlled with a floating, waterproof remote.

Plus it allows you to control the circuits at the receiver, which is nice because the pool guy doesn't need the remote to turn the pump on and off.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: uskiman on May 23, 2011, 02:48:13 pm
Mcoulter,

I saw you copied me on your email to Vera, and based on your blog, I have to assume you did not receive an answer.  Thanks for trying!  We have software revisions scheduled all the way out to 2015, so once they need something changed, I can pretty much squeeze it in anytime.

DKeefe & Minnies,

The remote freezing issue when joined into another network is being addressed as we speak.  The fix will be released in version 32 of the software which can be downloaded on our website in short time.  The new 32 software will have a lot of additions, but most of the additions including this fix.  Support for the AutoPilot chlorinator will be the primary change but will be invisible to everyone if they do not have this type of chlorinator. 

Thanks everyone!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 23, 2011, 03:15:06 pm
ha! I forgot about having to remove the batteries.

Thanks for continuing to work on this!

I've found a few other bugs in the multiwave sw. Is there someplace I can send bug reports?

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on May 23, 2011, 03:40:11 pm
@uskiman

  Support for the AutoPilot chlorinator will be the primary change but will be invisible to everyone if they do not have this type of chlorinator. 

Thanks everyone!


I have been holding out buying this unit and a chlorinator.  What will the multiwave do with the chlorinator (AutoPilot)?  Will Vera be able to adjust salinity settings and/or tell me the Bromine levels?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: uskiman on May 24, 2011, 09:44:31 am
Dkeefe

If you find any bugs you can email them to me at austianowski@intermatic.com and I will gladly verify and put the fixes in the next release.  Thanks for your support!

Aschwalb

The MultiWave will allow you to make the common adjustments to the AutoPilot chlorinators that have both the programming and 485 hardware support.  It will also show error codes and recommend fixes/adjustments to your system and/or pool.  As far as the Vera piece, that is totally up to Vera once again.  If they want to be active in expanding the capabilities of their product into the backyard, it would be to their advantage to make the necessary changes everyone is requesting. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on May 25, 2011, 03:50:43 pm
Hi Folks,

Anyone have any idea if you can control a variable speed pool pump through Vera with this setup?

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on May 25, 2011, 11:11:44 pm
The PE653 is capable of running a variable speed pump. Not sure how VERA interfaces it though.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on May 26, 2011, 07:07:48 pm
Yep, I know I have one running on it, thanks. Just wondering if anyone knows how to turn it on and off with Vera, I've been messing with it but I can't find a way.

Perhaps this is an enhansement request? Who would we give that to? I guess both Intermaic and MV?

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on May 27, 2011, 05:36:35 am
Please try to contact MCV/MIOS support about getting a better interface for the Multiwave controller.  It does need to handle these pumps and also manage the temperature settings much like an HVAC control.  I cannot get any response back from MCV on moving ahead with this so if anyone else would like to get their attention please contact them directly as well.

Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on May 27, 2011, 09:56:20 am
Please try to contact MCV/MIOS support about getting a better interface for the Multiwave controller.  It does need to handle these pumps and also manage the temperature settings much like an HVAC control.  I cannot get any response back from MCV on moving ahead with this so if anyone else would like to get their attention please contact them directly as well.

Thanks!

Will do! It would be cool to be able to control everything on it with Vera and iVera!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller Cost Estimate
Post by: pgiron on May 27, 2011, 02:27:20 pm
Just received cost estimate for install.. we currently have  heat pump, dial type pump timer, solar attic pool heat.

Parts: Intermatic Multiwave Control System, Water Sensor, Enclosure, Hand held Transmitter, Actuator Controller, Water Valve Actuators 1,080.00

Parts:
3 Way Jandy Valve 80.00

 Parts: Wiring equipment 80.00


Labor: Install above equipment to control pool pump, Heat Pump, and Solar System

360.00
 Note from pool company We need to leave your existing solar controller in place and add an additional valve to control turning the solar on/off. The multi-wave controls heat pumps but not solar systems. By adding a valve you can control turning the solar on and off with the multiwave and leave the existing solar temp control to handle the tempearture control of the solar. You'll still be able to see the temperature of the pool. The unit I quoted you is one part number PE24065RC and it contains all the items listed in the estimate.

The $1080 sounds really high for parts.Total $1686.80 w/ tax
What do you think?

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 27, 2011, 02:58:41 pm
that looks to be about 100% markup.

I paid ~$400 for the multiwave system, air and water temp senors. I believe the water temp sensor is included, but I'm not 100% positive. It isn't really clear in the manual, and I ended up with a spare one as a result.

The actuator is ~$80, and the valve controller runs ~$150 - $200.

Do you have a spa or just a pool.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: pgiron on May 27, 2011, 03:38:18 pm
Just a pool.
Asked the pool guy to recheck his figures because I thought it was high. His reply...There are a wide variety of price points on the internet and in some cases people offer things far below our cost from distribution. The price I gave you is what we would charge to provide, install, support, and warranty the system. In order to warranty a product our manufacturers need to see that we purchased it through legitimate distribution channels. It is a widespread issue but one that we've been able to contain. We pride ourselves on our professionalism and excellent customer service. We always finish a job that we start and we fully support any equipment we provide and install. Our commitment to customer satisfaction is neither cheap or easy to provide but we do it anyway.

Time to look for someone else to do our pool maintenance also.  :-\
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on May 27, 2011, 07:20:14 pm
We currently install pool and spa systems for about $995 as we buy a kit from Autopilot that is re-branded as the Autopilot Pool Commander.  Even if your pool is without a spa but you would want the remote to control your solar we would have to include the full installation price.  However on our pools that have solar they already have a separate controller that works just fine separate from the Multiwave unit so we don't bother connecting them (reducing the cost closer to $650).  We would charge a little for plumbing in an additional Jandy valve if needed but the other cost you mentioned does seem inflated.  I mean for that price we could throw in a Vera2... if it ever gets a good interface...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: pgiron on May 27, 2011, 07:31:52 pm
We currently install pool and spa systems for about $995 as we buy a kit from Autopilot that is re-branded as the Autopilot Pool Commander.  Even if your pool is without a spa but you would want the remote to control your solar we would have to include the full installation price.  However on our pools that have solar they already have a separate controller that works just fine separate from the Multiwave unit so we don't bother connecting them (reducing the cost closer to $650).  We would charge a little for plumbing in an additional Jandy valve if needed but the other cost you mentioned does seem inflated.  I mean for that price we could throw in a Vera2... if it ever gets a good interface...

I was hoping to be able to switch between solar and the regular pool heater remotely (turning each on and off). This is for a second home and it would be nice to pop the heat on remotely a day or so before we arrive. Depending on time of year it might be solar or it might need to be heat pump.

So you think you could do the multiwave , controlling pool pump timer, heat, solar,(already have vera up and running) for 650-995 depending on need for jandy valve? Not really interested in setting up any scenes. Just want the on /off remote ability.
 
What area are you located? Looking for help in Punta Gorda Fl area.
Thanks
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: SuperflyMD on May 27, 2011, 07:43:47 pm
We are just now digging the hole for our pool at our rental property. We have not, as far as I know, picked a native pool control system.  Is there one that works best with the multiwave?  Are there any steps we should take during the construction phase that will make integrating and using the multiwave easier or (and especially) cheaper?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on May 28, 2011, 03:18:28 pm
pgiron,
Sorry we are too far south to work that area (naples/marco).  Also, I wouldn't recommend actually using your Vera to run the Multiwave until a more complete set of features is designed for Vera to mimic the Multiwave remote.  I would only currently use the included remote for installation.  The current 3.20 Zwave upgrade makes the setup with Vera very difficult.  So I recommend it as a self contained unit or to use the PE953 remote to also run other lighting and equipment locally, but I cannot recommend using the Vera in the mix for now.

SuperflyMD,
The primary key to the construction is being sure that Jandy valves are being used to switch between pool and spa modes if you have a combo pool (or feature that requires a valve to turn).  That is usually a standard anyway.  If you are installing the multiwave at the same time as your other equipment, that will be the easiest installation. If you are installing a simple clock switch in the meantime be sure that it isn't mounted too close to other equipment on the wall... that is usually the most frustrating thing to me is trying to get a good spot to mount the wall equipment.  Also, be prepared to have the antenna extended with a Cat5 cable if your signal strength is low.  Other than that, you really do not have much to worry about. 

Keep in mind that you have 5 relays so you can run a pump on 1, a feature pump or spa blower on 2, a pool light on 3, if you have a pool/spa combo or valves to switch that will take up relay 4, if you have a heat pump that will take up relay 5.

Outside of that you can add other Zwave switches or outlets to your PE953 network so you can get creative controlling other devices as well.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: SuperflyMD on May 28, 2011, 04:11:56 pm
Thanks for the reply. Last time I had to deal with this stuff was as a lifeguard twenty years ago on a pool that was already almost 15 years old. Everything was manual valves and big yellow vats of liquid chlorine. The world moves on.

We are building a heated pool with a spa. No solar for the time being. I'm told we are putting in Jandy valves. My plan is not to get the MultiWave until the kinks are worked out a bit more.  I'm too new in the z-wave game and too outdated in the pool game to do much beta testing at this point.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: pgiron on May 29, 2011, 07:26:29 am
pgiron,
Sorry we are too far south to work that area (naples/marco).  Also, I wouldn't recommend actually using your Vera to run the Multiwave until a more complete set of features is designed for Vera to mimic the Multiwave remote.  I would only currently use the included remote for installation.  The current 3.20 Zwave upgrade makes the setup with Vera very difficult.  So I recommend it as a self contained unit or to use the PE953 remote to also run other lighting and equipment locally, but I cannot recommend using the Vera in the mix for now.



If the multiwave was done, could it be used via vera to turn on or off the solar, as well as, turn on or off the heat pump? I'm really just looking for a way to turn on either the heat pump or the solar, remotely, so we can have a warm pool before we get there. Is there another way to do this with zwave?
Thanks again
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on May 30, 2011, 06:23:37 am
pgiron,
do you have a pool/spa system or just a pool?  do you just have one pump and is it variable speed or just one speed?  Let me know and I can give you a better answer to your last question there.

thanks.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: pgiron on May 30, 2011, 07:55:32 am
Single pool, no spa. Single speed pump. Solar controller that looks similar to this -http://compare.ebay.com/like/180580293230?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y (http://compare.ebay.com/like/180580293230?var=lv&ltyp=AllFixedPriceItemTypes&var=sbar&_lwgsi=y)
Pool heater has circuit breaker in garage but then outside next to heater is another breaker type thing (removable part plugs in and will be on /off depending on whether its plugged in right side up or upside down).
Hope that helps,
Ron
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on May 30, 2011, 08:26:53 am
Sounds like a similar setup to mine. That is all except the solar aspect, for which I am awaiting the solar control improvements from Intermatic.

I currently use the Vera to control a single speed pool pump. I do that so I can vary run time based on whether the house is occupied or not. I set up two scenes. One to turn the pump on and one to turn it off. This also makes certain that the pump will turn off as intended in case it is turned on at the controller (say by the pool guy).

I also use Vera to control the heat pump temperature set point. This is one that MCV needs to improve as it is anything but clear. You have to go into the advanced section and go down to the "current set point" line item and input a new number. Note also the current temperature is not self updating. You must reload the Mios web page to see the current pool temperature. And I have found no method to observe the ambient temperature at all. To make this user friendly a reasonable front end needs to be created for the Intermatic controller.

Lastly, you can install a ELK-9200 relay in the heat pump supply circuit and control it directly with one of the open multiwave control circuits. It uses either a 110 or a 220 v input to switch the heat pump supply on or off (50 amp 2 phase max). I plan on installing that before the next heating season. Once completed I will then fully control the heat pump via Vera. Note that to maintain full control over the temperatures you may have to block off or enclose the temperature selection device on the heat pump itself. Touch one switch and control for temp setting goes back to the heat pump.  However, with the heat pump suppply relay you have ultimate control and can write code to turn off the relay if the pool temp goes above the set point in Vera.

Hope this helps. Make sure you write to MCV asking about improved controls for the multiwave. We need our voices to be heard.

Thanks,
Ron
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: pgiron on May 30, 2011, 11:38:25 am
Sounds like a similar setup to mine. That is all except the solar aspect, for which I am awaiting the solar control improvements from Intermatic.

I currently use the Vera to control a single speed pool pump. I do that so I can vary run time based on whether the house is occupied or not. I set up two scenes. One to turn the pump on and one to turn it off. This also makes certain that the pump will turn off as intended in case it is turned on at the controller (say by the pool guy). Is this via the intermatic multiwave?

I also use Vera to control the heat pump temperature set point. This is one that MCV needs to improve as it is anything but clear. You have to go into the advanced section and go down to the "current set point" line item and input a new number. Note also the current temperature is not self updating. You must reload the Mios web page to see the current pool temperature. And I have found no method to observe the ambient temperature at all. To make this user friendly a reasonable front end needs to be created for the Intermatic controller. Multiwave?

Lastly, you can install a ELK-9200 relay in the heat pump supply circuit and control it directly with one of the open multiwave control circuits. It uses either a 110 or a 220 v input to switch the heat pump supply on or off (50 amp 2 phase max). I plan on installing that before the next heating season. Once completed I will then fully control the heat pump via Vera. Note that to maintain full control over the temperatures you may have to block off or enclose the temperature selection device on the heat pump itself. Touch one switch and control for temp setting goes back to the heat pump.  However, with the heat pump suppply relay you have ultimate control and can write code to turn off the relay if the pool temp goes above the set point in Vera. I know some html, but nothing else code wise. Is there some out there, or someone who can help write it?

Hope this helps. Make sure you write to MCV asking about improved controls for the multiwave (will do). We need our voices to be heard.

Thanks,
Ron

Matt (mcoulter), do you have a recommendation for pool contractor in PG/Port Charlotte?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on May 30, 2011, 12:46:17 pm
Yes it is a multiwave.

I also do not know the Luup language. I have only inserted code from the library. All pretty straight forward.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on May 30, 2011, 08:42:27 pm
pgiron,
Sorry, I don't know anyone that works north of Cape Coral.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: pgiron on May 30, 2011, 08:54:07 pm
Yes it is a multiwave.

I also do not know the Luup language. I have only inserted code from the library. All pretty straight forward.

where is this library?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on May 30, 2011, 09:24:11 pm
You can find them in the General - Luup and Development - Plugins and Plug in Development section. I just went through and found ones that were similar to functions I as looking for. There is one post that contains most of them in one spot.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on May 31, 2011, 11:02:29 am
Hi Folks,

Just wanted to let you know that I got a reply from MCV support when I asked for an enhancement to the pool & spa interface including the ability to control variable speed pool pumps.  They said that these features are listed as future enhancements but if more people requested them they would probably get in to a future release pretty quick. So, if you're using this system or intending to; please put a request in to support and perhaps we can get this controller useable for everyone pretty quickly.

Thanks,

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 31, 2011, 11:12:22 am
I sent my request.

Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: pgiron on May 31, 2011, 11:12:38 am
just submitted request
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: SuperflyMD on June 03, 2011, 03:22:24 am
Stupid question: how do I submit the request?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 03, 2011, 08:14:54 am
Stupid question: how do I submit the request?

http://micasaverde.com/contact-support.php

the phone # is actually required.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: SuperflyMD on June 03, 2011, 09:59:09 am
done
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on June 03, 2011, 10:12:37 am
I have experienced something new with my pool controller in the past week. When the pump is on, as requested by Vera, I also get an indication that circuit 2 is also turned on. It is not simultaneous with circuit 1 (pump). If I manually turn off circuit 2 it turns back on automatically a few minutes later.

Not sure if this because it is a 220v pump or if something is defective. Anyone know?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 03, 2011, 10:14:34 am
that is a bug in vera. all of my circuits report on when circuit 1 is on.
Title: Antenna experiments
Post by: dkeefe on June 08, 2011, 11:00:47 am
My only real complaint about the multiwave system is the poor range and spotty coverage, so I set out to try to improve it. One solution is to remote mount the zwave transceiver (located inside the top cover), and intermatic should be commended for giving you this option. However, I think there is an easier way.

If you remove the top cover and look inside it, you will see the antenna wire is bent so runs along the top of the cover, placing the antenna in a horizontal orientation. This is probably the worst orientation for this type of antenna.

I removed the board from the cover, carefully straightened out the antenna wire and reinstalled the board so the antenna was now sticking straight up. This simple adjustment GREATLY improved the range and nearly eliminated the "dead spots". Woohoo!

Obviously the cover will no longer fit with the ~3" antenna sticking straight up, so I'm in the process of modifying the cover to accommodate this change. One easy solution would be to drill a hole in the cover above the antenna connection point on the board so the antenna can pass through the cover. You can then seal the cover (and probably the top of the antenna wire too) with some silicon rtv or similar. Simple, but not very pretty.

I'm thinking of trying to attach a tube to the cover for a more finished look. This might not work depending on the location of where the hole needs to be. I still need to research this option more.

Going forward, an easy change for intermatic would be to redesign the cover to allow the antenna to stick straight up. Another suggestion I have would be to conformal coat the zwave transceiver board. Mine isn't coated, however I believe the main multiwave board is. For me, living a block from the ocean means this board will only last about 2 years, if I'm lucky. :(

For those who wish to remote mount the antenna, make sure you mount it so the long side is vertical, not horizontal, otherwise you probably won't improve the coverage.

I'll post an update with some pictures after I figure out a final solution.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on June 09, 2011, 06:13:17 pm
dkeefe,
great effort on your part. That is all very interesting.  That means that I really might not have to make long runs for some of my installs but first try mounting the antenna nearby with a short cat5 cable.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 20, 2011, 08:23:02 am
I got to experiment some more with the antenna this weekend.

Unfortunately the antenna mounting point is under the curved part of the cover so there is no easy way to mount a tube to it.  You could drill a hole and use some silicone to make it water resistant, but I didn't want to do that.

:(

I ended up remote mounting the antenna and it seems to work just as well as the straightened antenna wire.

Oh well.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 19, 2011, 11:42:43 am
I made a few adjustments to the controller this past weekend. I installed an Elk 9200 high amp relay to the #2 switch position to provide power supply control to the heat pump. That is working wonderfully now. I replaced the Intermatic metal box with the Elk box to make a cleaner installation. 

I also relocated the antenna remotely about 5 feet away from the controller and oriented vertically. I went from 1 neighbor to a handful. Much improved communication, with no missed control requests so far.

I do have the handheld controller programmed with a minimum run time each day in case remote control fails.

I just noticed that UI4 shows the heater circuit (#5) as on whenever the pool water temperature is below my setpoint. Not sure if that is new or not as I just changed the setpoint. I found that remote setpoint was being lost every time I closed UI4, and with the heat pump relay now under remote control felt confident in leaving it at a higher setpoint. I am still hopeful that MCV and Intermatic will make some of the variables visible and adjustable in UI5. Things like pool/spa temp and ambient temp. Providing a thermostat like functionality would be great
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 19, 2011, 12:12:54 pm
great!

I can't control the temp setpoint with vera. I have given up. They need to fix it.

You can ignore the on/off status too. It doesn't work correctly. They need to fix that, too.

If you haven't filed a bug report about these issues, please do.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 19, 2011, 12:43:19 pm
I placed a bug report/feature request a while back on those. I have not tried to change the setpoint remotely since I did the work this past weekend. It was because I could not set it remotely that I used the pool handheld remote to set the setpoint at a normal heating point (85F). It has now stayed at that level since.

The heater control indicator (#5), which was never accurate before now seems to be accurate and in synch with the hand held remotes "heating" indicator. I ran the pool heater through a cycle Saturday and watched the two operate in synch. It operates even when the pool heat pump is not on (it is an independent function anyway).

I do have a strange issue that I feel is Intermatic and not MCV. That is switch 4 is programmed in the handheld remote and I was unable to delete or change it. Strange. I have nothing connected to #4 so it is a non issue now.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 19, 2011, 12:57:46 pm
what do you mean "switch 4 is programmed in the remote?"

circuit 4 is used for the pool/spa valce control. do you have teh system set for pool and spa or just pool only?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 19, 2011, 01:04:44 pm
Circuit 4 for my controller is empty. It could be used for any number of things such as a pool/spa valve controller.

I have noticed circuit 4 coming on like clockwork. So when I was there I paged through the handheld remotes control settings. In the control screens it shows circuit 4 scheduled (I never put that in). When I tried to delete the schedule it would return automatically. Starnge.  I have the following circuits controlled:

1 - single speed 220 v pool pump
2 - 110 v relay control for 220 v 50 amp heat pump relay
3 - pool lighting
4 - empty
5 - heat pump temperature control (low voltage wiring direct to heat pump)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 19, 2011, 01:12:57 pm
weird.

you can try resetting the system back to the defaults.

what fw are you running on the multiwave?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 19, 2011, 01:30:35 pm
No idea on the multiwave level.

I will not try any resets remotely, as it is working now. It was purchased new last November. As to the handheld I use it very seldom, and only as a back-up to vera. My confidence in the multiwave and Vera control of it is increasing now, especially with improved communication. One thing that does bother me is that to get updates on pool temp I need to close UI4 and reopen it. Polling the multiwave is always unsuccessful (not sure why).

I wish I had the ambient temp available (not able to find it anywhere via UI4). Without it I am relient on the multiwave freeze mode to start the pump anytime the ambient temp drops near freezing.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 19, 2011, 01:39:54 pm
if you enter the setup on the remote, the firmware version is displayed in the upper right hand corner of the screen. it is probably 30 or 31.

I've tested the freeze operation and it works perfectly. I'm more inclined to trust the operation of the multiwave over vera for proper operation of my pool.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 23, 2011, 06:06:17 pm
After a week of observation I am now convinced the pool heater control (circuit 5) is properly monitoring the water temp and coming on, with the UI4 indicator, when it is sending a pool heater on command to the pool heater (really just bridging the wires for the remote circuit). That is good as I will feel more confident just turing on the pool heater power relay (circuit 2 on my controller) automatically when I have a guest paying for pool heat.

I would like to keep track of the on time or energy usage. Unfortunately the pool system is not on my main panel and as such I cannot monitor its energy usage with the whole house monitor. Is there a way to show the energy usage for circuit 2 or circuit 5 (both have energy use shown in their setup) only when both are on?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 25, 2011, 07:54:09 am
not that I am aware of. I haven't spent much time looking into power consumption, though.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 25, 2011, 08:15:34 am
I should add that I relocated the antenna and added a few electrical outlets close by. It now has 5 neighbors and no longer has had any communication faults. I think the antenna is it's biggest weakness.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on November 26, 2011, 10:47:42 am
DKeefe & Minnies,

The remote freezing issue when joined into another network is being addressed as we speak.  The fix will be released in version 32 of the software which can be downloaded on our website in short time.  The new 32 software will have a lot of additions, but most of the additions including this fix.  Support for the AutoPilot chlorinator will be the primary change but will be invisible to everyone if they do not have this type of chlorinator. 

Thanks everyone!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: eddie on November 27, 2011, 10:19:36 am
So I am confused after step 3. I don't understand how to Link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote.
Please Help

After placing pool controller into Slave mode,  As instructed.  I see the 31S in the corner of the screen.
But now I get only three option in the Lean Mode:
1. Reset Controller
4. Add to Scene
5 Remove from Scene

For Cntrl Option I have 5 selections
1 Primary Screen Sel
2 Recv Net Only
3 Recv Net and cfg
4 Upgrade Firmware
5 Send Node info


How do I link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote?



1. Reset the pe953 and pe653 to the factory defaults. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR EXISTING POOL PROGRAMMING BY DOING THIS!

2. Include the pe653 receiver as a z-wave device in vera. you should see 6 new devices: 5 appliance devices (one for each circuit) and a _Pool Control device.

3. Include the pe953 remote as a new controller in vera. Start vera looking for a new controller. on the pe953 remote, enter the config screens, go to the CNTRL OPTION screen and select 2 - CNTRL COPY. Press 2 again to receive the network config. It should say successful after a few seconds. I had to pull the batteries out to reset the remote after doing this. the manual says it should reset automatically once successful. YMMV. after the remote reboots, it should say XXS in the upper right corner of the screen, where XX is the remote's fw version.

4. Link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote. Enter the config screens on the pe953, press 3 to include a device, and press the include button on the pe953 receiver.


Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on November 28, 2011, 09:13:36 am
it has been a while since I did this, but there should be a #3 option on the learn page.

did you reset the pool controller before starting? I had a lot of issues too until I reset it.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on November 28, 2011, 10:02:47 am
DKeefe & Minnies,

The remote freezing issue when joined into another network is being addressed as we speak.  The fix will be released in version 32 of the software which can be downloaded on our website in short time.  The new 32 software will have a lot of additions, but most of the additions including this fix.  Support for the AutoPilot chlorinator will be the primary change but will be invisible to everyone if they do not have this type of chlorinator. 

Thanks everyone!

@Ndemarco
WIll this report up through Vera any of the chlorinator information?  What do I need to buy to make this a full fledge chlorinator system?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on November 28, 2011, 10:06:36 am
probably not initially, at least based on past experiences with mcv and this pool controller.

mcv has really poor support for this device although I haven't updated my firmware on the vera in a while so that may have changed.


Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on December 11, 2011, 09:38:23 pm
FYI - I had removed my device a while back from my Vera2 and yesterday I upgraded my Vera2 to the UI5.  When I add back the PE653, it only shows up as a single switch but then it did finally resolve to each child switch as well.  However  no temp control has been added still. :(
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on December 11, 2011, 09:55:36 pm
FYI - I had removed my device a while back from my Vera2 and yesterday I upgraded my Vera2 to the UI5.  When I add back the PE653, it only shows up as a single switch but then it did finally resolve to each child switch as well.  However  no temp control has been added still. :(

Have you updated the PE653 software as well? I have not updated mine and was wondering the same thing.  I am quite cautious in updating something that is working. Clearly the temperature control aspect is a big shortcoming, but one I am working around right now with the addition of a relay to power the heat pump. It would be great though to be able to adjust the temperature setting remotely. Both from a control perspective and to avoid renters from turning on the heater without permission. Right now the only way I have been able to adjust the temp is with the handheld controller when I am there.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on December 11, 2011, 11:08:58 pm
my PE653 is on version 3.1 (31)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on December 11, 2011, 11:24:27 pm
Sounds like the latest. I thought there was a 32 but just checked the Intematic site and it shows 31. Not for me though as they state that updates cannot be perfomed using Windows 7. That is the only level I have for my laptop so it is a no go.Not sure why they would back themselves into such a corner.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on December 24, 2011, 07:04:24 am
You should be fine updating in Windows 7.  I've done all of my updates with the Intermatic equipment on Win 7.  That has worked for me since version 2.8 (28).

In my understanding though, the response to the solution needs to happen on MCV's side.  The data is available and visible for use in the Vera, they just have to program a module that allows the temp setting to be adjusted. 

About the only benefit going forward with Inermatic's firmware is the ability to add solar heater controls and salt generators as well.  I have verified with both MCV and Intermatic (and have personally had members of the two companies talking together) that the necessary Z-wave code is open and exposed and that the ball sits in MCV's court.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: GWNorth on December 31, 2011, 02:35:54 pm
MCV could sell thousands of Vera units into the vacation rental market in my area if they would create a straight forward interface for this unit like the one in Mios that runs my home thermostat.

I know of three pool companies that would sell and install these by the hundreds.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on January 05, 2012, 02:20:18 pm
I am somewhat confused about this product and what it does and doesnt do.  For example if you need to control valves do you need to purchase the valve controller P4243ME or will it drive valves directly.  I currently use a CA3750 to simply turn on the pump.  Couldn't I just buy the PE24VA - Valve Actuator tie a ZRF-113 relay to it and let Vera drive my valves?  Could I also add in a zwave temp sensor?  It appears that I need to change 4 valves to switch from Pool -> Spa but I get the sense that I can only control 3 valves?  Has anyone done more?  I really want to buy one of these but am sooo confused.... ???
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mario23 on January 05, 2012, 07:08:06 pm
Interested in this info also.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on January 07, 2012, 01:44:50 pm
aschwalb,
To turn any valves, you need the P4243ME (and actuators if you do not already have them).  If you want Vera to run the actuators, then you can do as you say with a relay.  I did that before the PE653 was built.  You might want to look at the schematic for Jandy's actuator installation which also includes wiring in a fuse as well.  The P4243ME does only switch 3 valves.  Since each one is using its own 24v output I do not think you can splice 2 together (nor would I recommend it).  The only real value of the Pool controller is to use it locally with the remote which makes for a good interface and the remote can add other z-wave devices into its additional 5 scene spaces.  But using this equipment with the Vera is currently almost worthless since you cannot control the temp settings.  You can keep tabs on whether your system is running but that is about it.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on January 07, 2012, 02:45:59 pm
So I held off updating to UI5 during my recent version. Is it confirmed that UI5 or Vera3 does not provide the temperature control? If not I think we need to put on some more pressure to MCV. If they will not add that feature I am going to start shopping for another home automation system that will. That and thermostat are my two highest priorities for my rental house. MCV are you listening??? I sent out in a ticket asking for that functionality a year ago!!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on January 14, 2012, 02:07:34 pm
I've already talked to the guys at Ingersoll Rand/Schlage, HawkingTech (back when they were doing a lot of Zwave), and Wayne Dalton after they got the old Intermatic product line.  I cannot get any of their developers to add this control.  The closest I've ever got is to get the MCV guys to at least expose a Virtual Switch for each of the five circuits and that was a lot of work on my part between MCV and Intermatic.  My only other hope is development from the Homeseer community.  But even then I'm spending a little more money than I wanted to.  Depressing to be so close and no dice.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on February 20, 2012, 02:13:18 pm
I've already talked to the guys at Ingersoll Rand/Schlage, HawkingTech (back when they were doing a lot of Zwave), and Wayne Dalton after they got the old Intermatic product line.  I cannot get any of their developers to add this control.  The closest I've ever got is to get the MCV guys to at least expose a Virtual Switch for each of the five circuits and that was a lot of work on my part between MCV and Intermatic.  My only other hope is development from the Homeseer community.  But even then I'm spending a little more money than I wanted to.  Depressing to be so close and no dice.

looking at http://bugs.mios.com/view.php?id=1523 and http://bugs.mios.com/view.php?id=1492 doesn't look like MCV is planning on doing anything here.  At some point I thought I read some users were using firmware 32 but I do not see that referred on intermatics site anywhere.  Seems that this would be a big issue for both intermatic and Vera... Anyone else have news or success stories?

@mcoulter

Just received my Multiwave and going to install this weekend.  My immediate need is to control the temp in my spa.  Any words of advice?  I do want it to integrate with Vera but not immediately necessary ATM.. I also want to get a salt system for it to control but do not see any documentation around it yet.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mario23 on March 17, 2012, 04:18:57 pm
I'd love to see some progress here!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on March 23, 2012, 08:09:34 am
@ aschwalb,
Not sure they would ever include the control for a salt system into this unit.  That is typically just a self sustained system (recommend AutoPilot's Digital Nano System http://www.autopilot.com/nano.html (http://www.autopilot.com/nano.html)).  They manage themselves and pretty much just alert you if the cell needs cleaned or if the salt is running low.  The only thing you would get be connecting them to a Zwave controller is reported information but nothing to control.

Regarding the issue of MCV making the temperature settings available, that is still the last feature missing here with the PE653.  I wish they would spend a few days on it and just get it worked out.  I'm not even in the pool business anymore and I still am being called out by my former boss to help install this equipment and provide work-a-rounds to make it work with Vera for other customers.  HELP US OUT, MCV, PLEASE!!!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on March 23, 2012, 11:42:04 am
@ aschwalb,
Regarding the issue of MCV making the temperature settings available, that is still the last feature missing here with the PE653.  I wish they would spend a few days on it and just get it worked out.  I'm not even in the pool business anymore and I still am being called out by my former boss to help install this equipment and provide work-a-rounds to make it work with Vera for other customers.  HELP US OUT, MCV, PLEASE!!!

Agree 100%

BTW my advanced folder for the pump controller no longer updates with any regularity. Thus even opening the advanced folder only shows old data. Many times dating all the way back to the last device repair time. Polls do not work and always are returned with an error message. Anyone else have this issue?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mario23 on March 24, 2012, 10:54:37 am
Jandy has had a nice control set for some time but recently they came out with a bundle that works for me.
 
It has all of the control features of the other bundles but no touch panel of any kind.  Instead it comes with its own router that integrates into your home network.  That is then linked to a web app as well as device apps availabe for Android and Apple.  I'm installing it this coming week.  It will control and monitor pump, air and water temp (pool and spa), salt system.  I'm looking forward to getting this up and running.  I guess I study up luup writing and maybe try to figure if this is something I could put together.  Since its already integrated into the network over IP, it seems like it shouldn't be that hard for those with the skills...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on March 27, 2012, 09:29:05 pm
That's interesting Mario23, I didn't know Jandy had that piece.  Still, Jandy (now Zodiac) is expensive stuff and never cheap when something breaks.  You can replace a MultiWave three times for the price of a blown board on an AquaLink.  And when you mix in the Vera, you still get a lot more central control... everything imaginable... except that stinkin' temp control...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on March 29, 2012, 08:12:37 pm
I see the Multiwave now marketed under the name Pool Pilot Commander. Has this changed company hands (was Intermatic) or is this just a marketing thing?  How does this impact software updates (if they ever do one) and Vera controllability?

see link
http://www.autopilot.com/our-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=148&category_id=37
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on March 30, 2012, 06:14:23 am
Autopilot bought the licensing to the Multiwave.  I know the top guy at Autopilot and we have been close to their company for a number of years.  They have a lot of great engineers that have developed some great solutions over the years.  However, for now it is hard to know if they plan to make changes to the Multiwave itself.  For now, you still go through Intermatic for the updates and Intermatic is still making the product for Autopilot.  As a matter of fact I had sat down with an Intermatic rep at one of Autopilots offices showing and explaining what we were trying to accomplish with the Vera and that is when I started getting them talking to the MVC people.  Shortly after I explained this connection to the Autopilot people, they were releasing the Pool Commander.  I am additionally now working with the Autopilot people so they know what they could be doing if they push these companies just a little further.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: zendick on March 30, 2012, 03:13:37 pm
mcoulter please please don't let them forget about the pe650 and p1353me/p4243me devices if and when they start trying to fix things!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 02, 2012, 10:26:29 am
Autopilot bought the licensing to the Multiwave.  I know the top guy at Autopilot and we have been close to their company for a number of years.  They have a lot of great engineers that have developed some great solutions over the years.  However, for now it is hard to know if they plan to make changes to the Multiwave itself.  For now, you still go through Intermatic for the updates and Intermatic is still making the product for Autopilot.  As a matter of fact I had sat down with an Intermatic rep at one of Autopilots offices showing and explaining what we were trying to accomplish with the Vera and that is when I started getting them talking to the MVC people.  Shortly after I explained this connection to the Autopilot people, they were releasing the Pool Commander.  I am additionally now working with the Autopilot people so they know what they could be doing if they push these companies just a little further.

Well I did just buy an autopilot nano with my multiwave... Hopefully this will eventually integrate together with Vera someday.  F
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 06, 2012, 09:32:15 am
I see nothing at mcv has changed.  >:(

I went to try to read my pool temp today and it seems like that isn't working anymore either. frustrating.

I guess the mcv's guaranteed interoperabilty claim is complete bs.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 06, 2012, 09:33:06 am
I see the Multiwave now marketed under the name Pool Pilot Commander. Has this changed company hands (was Intermatic) or is this just a marketing thing?  How does this impact software updates (if they ever do one) and Vera controllability?

see link
http://www.autopilot.com/our-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=148&category_id=37

holy smokes! they slapped an ugly label on the remote and doubled the price! good luck with that!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 07, 2012, 12:38:20 pm
well, it seems like I am now having this problem too. I have obviously done this before, but I'm wondering if it was with firmware 30.

Has anyone been able to do this with firmware 31?

I knew I shouldn't have updated the zwave fw to 3.2!

thanks!

So I am confused after step 3. I don't understand how to Link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote.
Please Help

After placing pool controller into Slave mode,  As instructed.  I see the 31S in the corner of the screen.
But now I get only three option in the Lean Mode:
1. Reset Controller
4. Add to Scene
5 Remove from Scene

For Cntrl Option I have 5 selections
1 Primary Screen Sel
2 Recv Net Only
3 Recv Net and cfg
4 Upgrade Firmware
5 Send Node info


How do I link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote?



1. Reset the pe953 and pe653 to the factory defaults. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR EXISTING POOL PROGRAMMING BY DOING THIS!

2. Include the pe653 receiver as a z-wave device in vera. you should see 6 new devices: 5 appliance devices (one for each circuit) and a _Pool Control device.

3. Include the pe953 remote as a new controller in vera. Start vera looking for a new controller. on the pe953 remote, enter the config screens, go to the CNTRL OPTION screen and select 2 - CNTRL COPY. Press 2 again to receive the network config. It should say successful after a few seconds. I had to pull the batteries out to reset the remote after doing this. the manual says it should reset automatically once successful. YMMV. after the remote reboots, it should say XXS in the upper right corner of the screen, where XX is the remote's fw version.

4. Link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote. Enter the config screens on the pe953, press 3 to include a device, and press the include button on the pe953 receiver.


Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 07, 2012, 03:59:33 pm
I figured out the problem. the 3.2 zwave fw isn't compatible with the multiwave system. Once I unchecked the use 3.2 fw option and repeated the steps, I was able to include the remote to the receiver.

I'll open a bug report about this. I encourage others to do so as well.

 >:(

well, it seems like I am now having this problem too. I have obviously done this before, but I'm wondering if it was with firmware 30.

Has anyone been able to do this with firmware 31?

I knew I shouldn't have updated the zwave fw to 3.2!

thanks!

So I am confused after step 3. I don't understand how to Link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote.
Please Help

After placing pool controller into Slave mode,  As instructed.  I see the 31S in the corner of the screen.
But now I get only three option in the Lean Mode:
1. Reset Controller
4. Add to Scene
5 Remove from Scene

For Cntrl Option I have 5 selections
1 Primary Screen Sel
2 Recv Net Only
3 Recv Net and cfg
4 Upgrade Firmware
5 Send Node info


How do I link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote?



1. Reset the pe953 and pe653 to the factory defaults. YOU WILL LOSE YOUR EXISTING POOL PROGRAMMING BY DOING THIS!

2. Include the pe653 receiver as a z-wave device in vera. you should see 6 new devices: 5 appliance devices (one for each circuit) and a _Pool Control device.

3. Include the pe953 remote as a new controller in vera. Start vera looking for a new controller. on the pe953 remote, enter the config screens, go to the CNTRL OPTION screen and select 2 - CNTRL COPY. Press 2 again to receive the network config. It should say successful after a few seconds. I had to pull the batteries out to reset the remote after doing this. the manual says it should reset automatically once successful. YMMV. after the remote reboots, it should say XXS in the upper right corner of the screen, where XX is the remote's fw version.

4. Link the pe653 receiver to the pe953 remote. Enter the config screens on the pe953, press 3 to include a device, and press the include button on the pe953 receiver.


Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on April 08, 2012, 12:02:01 pm
I see the Multiwave now marketed under the name Pool Pilot Commander. Has this changed company hands (was Intermatic) or is this just a marketing thing?  How does this impact software updates (if they ever do one) and Vera controllability?

see link
http://www.autopilot.com/our-store.html?page=shop.product_details&flypage=flypage.tpl&product_id=148&category_id=37

holy smokes! they slapped an ugly label on the remote and doubled the price! good luck with that!

I'm not sure if there is a better price even with the Intermatic label.  This is the only place I am seeing that right now: http://www.nexternal.com/intermatic/pe653rc-p7242.aspx
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mario23 on April 08, 2012, 12:20:39 pm
I got this Iaqualink web connect kit for my Jandy setup.
http://www.zodiacpoolsystems.com/Products/Controls/iAquaLink.aspx
It only cost about $260 and is an add on to the system.
Its wifi and web enabled so theoretically, it shouldn't be too hard to integrate into Vera.
Not sure how many people have aqualink/jandy controllers out there but wanted to pass it on...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 08, 2012, 02:47:52 pm
I'm not sure if there is a better price even with the Intermatic label.  This is the only place I am seeing that right now: http://www.nexternal.com/intermatic/pe653rc-p7242.aspx

the price has apparently gone up, but it hasn't doubled.

10 seconds of googling shows this place:

http://www.swimmingpoolsetc.com/intermatic-poolandspa-electroniccontrolsystem.htm

which happens to be where I bought mine from a over a year ago. it went up about $50 since then.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 08, 2012, 02:51:07 pm
smarthome has it for less than $340.

http://www.smarthome.com/25109/Intermatic-PE653RC-MultiWave-Z-wave-Pool-Spa-Home-Control/p.aspx
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 09, 2012, 07:58:08 pm
I emailed Intermatic and received the following today:

Currently The MCV system will not allow you to control the temperature of the unit.  It does allow you to turn the circuits on or off and switch the actuators.  MCV is currently working to improve their system to talk to our unit and control the temps. I can’t speak for them to say when this will be completed.  There are several blogs on the subject  online.  Frank

Frank Pomeroy | Intermatic, Inc. | Electrical Support Specialist
7777 Winn Rd. Spring Grove, IL 60081 | cell 262-716-6717
E-mail: fpomeroy@intermatic.com
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 10, 2012, 08:13:06 am
thanks for the update minnies. did you happen to ask them about firmware rev 32?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 10, 2012, 09:54:18 pm
No, not this time. I did some 6 months ago and found that 32 offered no benefits for me (it had something about solar control or something like that) but no fixes or improvements for zwave control. If you find something different let me know but what was stated was not worth buying the dongle for the pool controller in order to upload the new version.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 11, 2012, 08:14:41 am
you have 32? I need it for solar control. could you send it to me?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 11, 2012, 08:58:03 am
you have 32? I need it for solar control. could you send it to me?

I talked to one of the engineers at Intermatic about the Multi-Wave and he re-iterated that nothing in the upcoming 3.3 firmware solves the issues with Vera and that is squarely in MCV's hands... they are waiting on them.  Also he mentioned that the 3.3 was beta and due out any day and it added support for AquaCal salt systems (I assume he meant AutoPilot since AquaCal is a brand of theirs for heat pumps)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 11, 2012, 09:08:08 am
33 will be out soon? what happened to 32?

again, I don't want this to fix vera issues, I want it for solar control.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 11, 2012, 09:11:03 am
33 will be out soon? what happened to 32?

again, I don't want this to fix vera issues, I want it for solar control.


dunno...  I asked about the latest firmware and he said 3.3 was in beta and was supposed to be out already...  Sound familiar?   ;)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 11, 2012, 09:12:05 am
all too familiar...  :D

I'll keep checking intermatic's site. thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 11, 2012, 09:37:27 pm
Frank from Intermatic is planning to come to my house tomorrow. I plan on asking about firmware for the AutoPilot products and investigate more on VERA compatibility.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 12, 2012, 08:47:55 am
please ask him about fw 32/33!

thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 13, 2012, 01:13:20 pm
Frank is a great guy, willing to help any way he can. Sme new things are slated to come out next season. He hinted at a web interface and other smart control.

The PE653 and 953 are big sellers for them. Regardless, any mention of firmware brought up the engineering dept line about how expensive changes are to implement. Basically, no answer.

I don't get the impression many installations use an alternate controller or ancillary devices.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 13, 2012, 10:30:59 pm
@ aschwalb,
Not sure they would ever include the control for a salt system into this unit.  That is typically just a self sustained system (recommend AutoPilot's Digital Nano System http://www.autopilot.com/nano.html (http://www.autopilot.com/nano.html)).  They manage themselves and pretty much just alert you if the cell needs cleaned or if the salt is running low.  The only thing you would get be connecting them to a Zwave controller is reported information but nothing to control.
I'd like to be able to see and change the Nano's output percentage. Our pool service jacks them way up.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 13, 2012, 10:34:07 pm
Mcoulter,

I am in the Moorings neighborhood with a couple of vera and multiwave devices. Maybe we could put combined pressure on MCV?

At home, I am 30 mins from Intermatic, too.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 14, 2012, 07:28:56 pm
I am stuck. I've downgraded my zwave network to 2.78 and verified it is running 2.78. I can't get the PE953 to start controlling the PE653 again. The 953 relays and "pool_control"  show up as Vera devices, but the 953 controller is useless in its current state.

MultiWave firmware is 31 and is now 31S.

I followed dkeefe's instructions many times. I reset both the 653 and 953. I paired them per dkeefe's instructions. I had the Vera next to the units while pairing. Just like everyone else, I couldn't get the 653 and 953 to pair after getting the 653-Vera paired and the 953-Vera paired.

Finally, I got the 953 to display "SUCCESSFUL" after the final step. When I rebooted the 953, though, it is stuck in LEARN MODE. The LEARN MODE options are now fully populated, but nothing will get it back to its running mode. Options are:

LEARN MODE     31S
1. RESET CONTROLLER
2. RESET DEVICE
3. INCLUDE DEVICE
4. ADD TO SCENE
5. REMOVE FROM SCENE

CTRL OPTION     31S
1. PRIMARY SCREEN SEL
2. RECV NET ONLY
3. RECV NET AND CFG
4. UPGRADE FIRMWARE
5. SEND NODE INFO

I can now turn on/off the individual devices from VERA. I need the pool remote control to work also, though.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 16, 2012, 08:26:06 am
press 3 to include the remote and press the button on the receiver.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 16, 2012, 08:32:05 am
I had tried this many times. Finally, I got it to work. I wasn't sure if Vera had to be in Z-Wave Include mode during the last step.

I have two more Vera/MultiWave pairs to finish. Now that I know Z-Wave must be 2.87 not 3.2, it should be easier.

What does POOL CONTROL do? What can I do with the SCENE CONTROLLER that appears?

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 16, 2012, 08:51:16 am
I am stuck. I've downgraded my zwave network to 2.78 and verified it is running 2.78. I can't get the PE953 to start controlling the PE653 again. The 953 relays and "pool_control"  show up as Vera devices, but the 953 controller is useless in its current state.

MultiWave firmware is 31 and is now 31S.

I followed dkeefe's instructions many times. I reset both the 653 and 953. I paired them per dkeefe's instructions. I had the Vera next to the units while pairing. Just like everyone else, I couldn't get the 653 and 953 to pair after getting the 653-Vera paired and the 953-Vera paired.

Finally, I got the 953 to display "SUCCESSFUL" after the final step. When I rebooted the 953, though, it is stuck in LEARN MODE. The LEARN MODE options are now fully populated, but nothing will get it back to its running mode. Options are:

LEARN MODE     31S
1. RESET CONTROLLER
2. RESET DEVICE
3. INCLUDE DEVICE
4. ADD TO SCENE
5. REMOVE FROM SCENE

CTRL OPTION     31S
1. PRIMARY SCREEN SEL
2. RECV NET ONLY
3. RECV NET AND CFG
4. UPGRADE FIRMWARE
5. SEND NODE INFO

I can now turn on/off the individual devices from VERA. I need the pool remote control to work also, though.

Nick


Is there any down side to reverting to 2.87 and back to 3.2 in order to include the multiwave?  How do I tell the version of MultiWave firmware?  I bought the USB dongle just in case I new version appears... 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 16, 2012, 08:59:11 am
I'm not sure if 3.2 is any better. I haven't had a chance to use 3.2 due to the incompatibility with the multiwave.

to check the multiwave version, hold p/s and enter to get into the setup. in the upper right hand corner of the screen, it will show XXS, where XX is the version (probably 30 or 31).
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 16, 2012, 09:03:45 am
I wasn't sure if Vera had to be in Z-Wave Include mode during the last step.

I have two more Vera/MultiWave pairs to finish. Now that I know Z-Wave must be 2.87 not 3.2, it should be easier.

What does POOL CONTROL do? What can I do with the SCENE CONTROLLER that appears?

Nick

vera shouldn't have been in include mode for the last step. it is just for the remote and the receiver.

_pool_control is the multiwave receiver. about the only thing you can do right now is check the water temp in the advanced tab. hopefully someday you will be able to set the temp as well.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 16, 2012, 09:05:24 am
I think aschwalb was referring to the Z-Wave version, not the MultiWave firmware version.

You can check Vera's Z-Wave version by viewing the Setup | Z-Wave properties. The running version will be displayed at the top.

I don't know what the benefits of 3.2 are. It has probably been discussed on the forum somewhere.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 16, 2012, 03:42:01 pm
trolling the bugs database and look! http://bugs.mios.com/view.php?id=579  MCV has at least blown the dust off the request  :D
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 17, 2012, 07:16:05 am
I received a very nice email from uskiman yesterday. As mcoulter already stated, Intermatic firmly and convincingly believes Intermatic has provided everything necessary for open access to the PE653 & 953. According to Intermatic, MCV must act next to support temperature control and other parameters on the MultiWave system.

They truly are actively working on a new firmware for the 653 system. I asked about Z-Wave 3.2 support last night but have not yet heard back.

It seems MCV does not have interest in pool control. This forum used to have a subforum on pools and irrigation. It was deleted/merged. Others who have communicated with MCV have gotten vibes that pool control isn't that impoertant to MCV.

If you want the MultiWave supporte, you'd better let MCV know with a direct email!

BTW, the MW controller could be used for a lot more than pools!

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 17, 2012, 08:19:28 am
Thanks for submitting your request to mcv about this. I filed a request a while ago asking for better support. I guess we need to keep hounding them.

I do believe that the problem lies with mcv as I had a version of home buddy that allowed me to set the temp that I believe worked, but it disappeared with an update.

As well as setting the water temp, it would also be nice if vera showed the air temp too.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 17, 2012, 08:34:07 am

If you want the MultiWave supporte, you'd better let MCV know with a direct email!

BTW, the MW controller could be used for a lot more than pools!

Nick

Done!.  And really this could be used for all kinds of control especially if we knew the input specification for the probes. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 17, 2012, 08:38:19 am
And really this could be used for all kinds of control especially if we knew the input specification for the probes. 

that should be pretty easy to figure out. I have a spare water temp sensor I can measure when I get a chance. I think they even printed the spec in the manual that came with it.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 17, 2012, 08:50:53 pm
If you want the MultiWave supporte, you'd better let MCV know with a direct email!

BTW, the MW controller could be used for a lot more than pools!

Nick
Absolutely. The relays can be used for exterior lighting, sprinklers or other things that you want to control.

I second the desire to monitor water temp, adjust water temp setting and monitor ambient/air temp. Where do we write to ask for support? (I know I did it before but it has been a while)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: guessed on April 17, 2012, 08:59:16 pm
It might pay to ask the vendor if they're 100% compliant with Z-Wave for all of these features.

In theory, if the device has 100% compliant to the Z-Wave specs, then you could try one of these:
    http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/GuaranteedCompatibility

But it might be kindler/gentler to get @mcvflorin's attention, after confirming with the Vendor, since they'll likely know if it's 100% compliant or not.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 17, 2012, 09:07:14 pm
Oh, I should mention that since MCV upgraded me to 3.20 I can no longer poll the multiwave control. I can only poll the individual switches.  That makes it difficult to monitor pool temp using the advanced tab as updates are very irregular.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 17, 2012, 09:48:15 pm
It might pay to ask the vendor if they're 100% compliant with Z-Wave for all of these features.

In theory, if the device has 100% compliant to the Z-Wave specs, then you could try one of these:
    http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/GuaranteedCompatibility

But it might be kindler/gentler to get @mcvflorin's attention, after confirming with the Vendor, since they'll likely know if it's 100% compliant or not.
Suggest you PM uskiman and ask directly 1) if Intermatic believes the device is 100% compatible and 2) why the MultiWave doesn't behave well with Z-Wave 3.2 firmware.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 17, 2012, 10:14:47 pm
As to why the PE653 MultiWave doesn't behave well with Z-Wave 3.2 firmware, read this Wiki article:

http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/MigrateTo452

It seems 3.2 and above doesn't support Secondary Inclusion Server, eliminating Secondary controllers. Based on my admittedly limited knowledge, I could understand that to mean you can't use the PE953 hand held controller AND Vera to control the PE653 relays.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 17, 2012, 10:27:33 pm
As to why the PE653 MultiWave doesn't behave well with Z-Wave 3.2 firmware, read this Wiki article:

http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/MigrateTo452

It seems 3.2 and above doesn't support Secondary Inclusion Server, eliminating Secondary controllers. Based on my admittedly limited knowledge, I could understand that to mean you can't use the PE953 hand held controller AND Vera to control the PE653 relays.

Nick

But you could if the PE 953 was just a secondary controller right?  Like a ge remote.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 17, 2012, 10:30:35 pm
As to why the PE653 MultiWave doesn't behave well with Z-Wave 3.2 firmware, read this Wiki article:

http://wiki.micasaverde.com/index.php/MigrateTo452

It seems 3.2 and above doesn't support Secondary Inclusion Server, eliminating Secondary controllers. Based on my admittedly limited knowledge, I could understand that to mean you can't use the PE953 hand held controller AND Vera to control the PE653 relays.

Nick

Wow, makes me very happy knowing that MCV upgraded me to 3.20 on their own to help resolve issues in communicating to the pool controller. I have not been to the house since so did not know the remote will no longer function. BAD as that is the only way to adjust the heater temperature set point!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 17, 2012, 10:34:11 pm
After I wrote the prior post, that occurred to me, too. Right now, though, we pair the 653 relay box with Vera. We pair the 953 handheld with Vera. Then, we pair the 653 and 953 directly. If Vera wasn't in range, running, etc., the 953 would still control the 653, right?

With the GE controller, that's not true (so far as my ltd. understanding goes).

I would be surprised, however, to hear a whole feature set was removed during an "upgrade." Sure, it happens, but it's not usually the best practice.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on April 18, 2012, 12:01:27 am
I had an issue at least a year or so ago where some of the z-wave commands Vera was sending out never made it to the z-wave device I was trying to control.  The explaination MCV gave on why 3.20 was so great made perfect since on why my devices weren't controlling.  It was two device's that were not in direct communication with Vera.  So to 3.20 I went.  That is when is spent minutes/hours/days... playing with the Multiwave.  I can safely say I have two sites with Vera2 UI4 Z-wave 3.20 and the PE935 as a secondary controller.  The steps to get them working were: 1) reset both the 653 and 953.  2) Downgrade z-wave back to 2.78.  3)wait for Vera to actually convert the z-wave back.  It took 15 minutes 4) Reboot Vera  5) link the 653 to the 953  6) confirm you can controll the 653 from the 953  7) add the 953 as a secondary contoller tp Vera  8) the 653 and its Relays were automatically added when you added the 953 as a secondary controller.  9) Convert z-wave back to 3.20.

I can control all of the Relays from both Vera and the 953.  I can read the Pool/Spa Temp from the advanced tab on the 653.  I created a virtual Temp and run a scene every couple minute to display the temp on the dashboard.  The Temp updates about every couple minutes.  As I heat the spa I can verify the updates.

The MultiWave use's a 10K Thermister for Temperature.

Is the creation of a Z-Wave Device in Vera a MCV only task?  I see others can create plug ins for other devices but not Z-Wave Devices.  Do they hold all the cards on how to fix or create a Device Template for the Multiwave that adds all the capabilities of the product?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 18, 2012, 12:06:05 am
Thanks for sharing the info. Whoa, that seems tenuous/kludgy. Downgrade Z-Wave firmware, link the modules, upgrade the firmware. Do you have a sense as to who should be fixing or updating? Is the 3.2 compatibility issue MCV or Intermatic?

I understand Z-Wave to be at firmware 4.2. Does it ever end?

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: oTi@ on April 18, 2012, 06:53:49 am
It seems 3.2 and above doesn't support Secondary Inclusion Server, [...]
Correct; that feature is gone as of Z-Wave firmware 3.20; but it only means that you can not use a secondary controller to do inclusion/exclusion anymore. Only the primary controller (Vera) can do that.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 18, 2012, 08:22:47 am
ahh. that explains the problems I had recently after upgrading to zwave fw 3.2.  mcv support reverted me back to 2.78 and all is well and they added that the remote is only compatible with 2.78.

thanks for the explanation.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 18, 2012, 09:15:16 am
they added that the remote is only compatible with 2.78.


When you say that does that mean we need to push Intermatic to make the remote 3.2 compatible? Or is this really a MCV issue alone? (As Frank from Intermatic has stated)  I am so confused  ???   
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 18, 2012, 09:16:35 am
I don't know. it seems to me that mcv is to blame here. they removed the required feature from the firmware.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 18, 2012, 09:18:41 am
I don't know. it seems to me that mcv is to blame here. they removed the required feature from the firmware.

I kinda got the impression that 3.2 was a natural evolution of Z-Wave protocol support.  If that is the case then Intermatic should bring their support of Z-Wave to current revisions.  That is what I am confuserated about... 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 18, 2012, 09:19:42 am
I think you'll find both vendors will blame the other...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 18, 2012, 09:45:45 am
I think you'll find both vendors will blame the other...
If Z-Wave 3.2 eliminated support for SIS, Intermatic will have to modify the PE653 firmware to eliminate dependency on SIS, instead implementing the now current method of secondary inclusion. I don't see how that would be related to MCV at all.

I suggest you email Intermatic and PM uskiman, prodding for the new features needed in the MultiWave.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 18, 2012, 11:43:23 am

I suggest you email Intermatic and PM uskiman, prodding for the new features needed in the MultiWave.

Nick

Just FYI I did reach out to uskiman and he is looking into this from an Intermatic perspective.  Any easy way to give MCV this info?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 18, 2012, 11:44:40 am
I've already opened a support issue about this. You could do the same, but if it really is intermatic's issue I'm not sure it will do any good.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 18, 2012, 12:51:32 pm
I've already opened a support issue about this. You could do the same, but if it really is intermatic's issue I'm not sure it will do any good.


I see

           0000579   1   Issues   feature   assigned (c_team)   2012-04-13   Add support for Intermatic PE650 wireless transceiver for swimming pool controls
                        0001424   1   Issues   feature   assigned (c_team)   2012-04-09   The heat pump set temp control feature for Intermatic PE653
           0001492       Issues   feature   assigned (c_team)   2012-04-09   support for features like view pool temperature, control speed pumps, etc
           0001523       Issues   feature   assigned (c_team)   2012-04-06   Users request Vera to support Intermatic MultiWave Pool Controller PE653

So they have at least noted and assigned them.  Just want them to talk to Intermatic so they understand the issue... 
 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 18, 2012, 05:53:54 pm
I can control all of the Relays from both Vera and the 953.  I can read the Pool/Spa Temp from the advanced tab on the 653.  I created a virtual Temp and run a scene every couple minute to display the temp on the dashboard.  The Temp updates about every couple minutes.  As I heat the spa I can verify the updates.

That sounds like it could be really helpful. And way you could pass on the how to in a way a novice could implement?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 18, 2012, 08:55:10 pm
Help me out, please.  Describe for me the difference between 2.78 and 3.2. Is the difference from Z-Wave or from MCV? If a Z-Wave device is compliant with 2.78 is it automatically compatible with 3.2?

Intermatic believes the current firmware is fully compliant with current Z-Wave standards. Can someone in the know summarize the situation?

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 19, 2012, 08:14:51 am
you need to get the engineers at intermatic talking to the mcv engineers.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 19, 2012, 08:47:45 am
you need to get the engineers at intermatic talking to the mcv engineers.

Just an FYI I submitted a trouble ticket to MCV and they (within the day) responded and logged on my machine to set one of my Vera's back to 2.78 Z-wave so that I can include the PE953...  I havent had time to do that yet, but they are ok with that being the solution.  So far have not figured out the downside of using 2.78 versus 3.2. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 19, 2012, 08:53:54 am
So far have not figured out the downside of using 2.78 versus 3.2.

3.2 was supposed to be the solution to everyone's zwave problems.

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,5756.0.html (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,5756.0.html)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 19, 2012, 09:02:12 am
So far have not figured out the downside of using 2.78 versus 3.2.

3.2 was supposed to be the solution to everyone's zwave problems.

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,5756.0.html (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,5756.0.html)
Ok but then it looks like i can go back to 3.2 once I have added the PE953 right?

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 19, 2012, 09:06:12 am
Ok but then it looks like i can go back to 3.2 once I have added the PE953 right?

that is a good question that I wondered about myself. You would have to ask mcv about that.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 19, 2012, 12:25:23 pm
I hope so as that is what has happened to me. They upped me to 3.20 to help resolve other issues (probably due to a large network) and there I am.

Question does this preclude using the multiwave with Vera3?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 19, 2012, 12:33:40 pm
Question does this preclude using the multiwave with Vera3?

another very good question. it seems the answer to this would be yes.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 19, 2012, 12:53:05 pm
If so you would think the reduced potential for people like me to upgrade would be an impetus to make changes. I was thinking of doing just that but not if the pool controller falls off the list!

Ooh, I became a "Full Member" based on this post. What prize do I get???
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 19, 2012, 01:26:09 pm
If so you would think the reduced potential for people like me to upgrade would be an impetus to make changes. I was thinking of doing just that but not if the pool controller falls off the list!

Ooh, I became a "Full Member" based on this post. What prize do I get???

But the problem is that it doesn't look like this is an MCV problem it is Intermatics reliance on an outdated (per z-wave) concept of SIC inclusion that is no longer supported (not MCV's doing)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 19, 2012, 06:25:08 pm
Not sure I agree. I certainly do not expect to replace all the components in my house because a z wave chip improvement came out. They must, and I mean must, provide backward compatability for recent z wave versions. My pool pump controller is only 1 year old and you are saying if I want to upgrade the Vera I should replace the pool pump controller. Does this also apply to other devices like door lock and so forth? I have over 2k worth of devices. Replacement to upgrade is not in the cards. Period.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 19, 2012, 06:49:15 pm
I suppose that's why 2.78 is still an option to provide backward compatibility with products that haven't kept up with the Zwave spec.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 19, 2012, 06:58:48 pm
I think I understand. But can new controllers also select 2.78. I do have a Vera3 Lite at this house and it does have the selectable option for 3.20. I am not sure if deselection would make it revert to 2.78 or not.

But a novice coming in would not know one device just purchased was incompatable with a controller also just purchased. MCV and Intermatic need to make this easier for us novice owners.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on April 19, 2012, 07:33:36 pm
Minnies,  I tried to reply to your message and I received a error so here you go,

Let me know if you need more detail.

I added a virtual temperature device.  Then I created a new scene.  The scene has a timer, every 2 minutes, and LUUP Code,

Code:

local temp1 = luup.variable_get("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:TemperatureSensor1","CurrentTemperature",116)

luup.variable_set("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:TemperatureSensor1","CurrentTemperature",temp1,109)

change the device numbers to match your devices
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 19, 2012, 07:34:05 pm
Fwiw I am on veralite.  Same day I issued a trouble ticket that I couldn't include the multiwave they logged on and set my zwave to 2.78 for me. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 20, 2012, 08:53:03 am
Ok. Now I can go ahead and get a VeraLite. Thanks.

MCV asked for a bunch of info and remot access to my system and pool control last night. Hopefully things are moving again.

Squeak, squeak.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on April 20, 2012, 11:59:38 am
Ndemarco,
Are they planning to look at the Temperature control options while they are in there?  I have always understood that the data is exposed, they just have to program an interface like an HVAC control that can work it. (With option of two set points for those with Pool/Spa combination).

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 20, 2012, 12:17:31 pm
I hope so.

My tech support request included my comments below. MCV was responding to my support request.


Quote
Please add temperature and setpoint for the Intermatic MultiWave. We have two now and will add three more. We have rental properties and use Vera to control them.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on April 20, 2012, 02:39:26 pm
Good... I've already installed about 15 of them (each one a separate customer) and have two more lined up next week, so I have a lot of people that would like these features. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 22, 2012, 10:07:26 pm
Minnies,  I tried to reply to your message and I received a error so here you go,

Let me know if you need more detail.

I added a virtual temperature device.  Then I created a new scene.  The scene has a timer, every 2 minutes, and LUUP Code,

Code:

local temp1 = luup.variable_get("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:TemperatureSensor1","CurrentTemperature",116)

luup.variable_set("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:TemperatureSensor1","CurrentTemperature",temp1,109)

change the device numbers to match your devices

Hi Novaiceman. I tried looking everywhere about how to make a vritual device and came up short. I found a few posts which added to my confusion, but nothing with straight forward enough directions that I could follow.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 24, 2012, 07:09:28 pm
Hi all. Thanks to some very good instruction via email I was able to get it working. This is great. Correction of one of the major shortcomings. It would be great if MCV could add temp setting and ambient temp monitoring to the mix.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on April 24, 2012, 08:59:56 pm
Would you share the email?  Going to tackle this weekend
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 24, 2012, 09:04:26 pm
I'd dive into the LUUP code for temp monitoring, but my whole system is down at the moment. I've put in a request to MCV, but no response yet.

Message is: "Failed at: Getting the name"

I'm not experienced at getting into the nuts and bolts, so I'm stuck.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 24, 2012, 09:24:14 pm
From Novaiceman:

I created a Virtual Temperature Device,  I used Device File D_TemperatureSensor1.xml, Imp File I_TemperatureSensor1.xml, and named it Pool/Spa Temp.  The 635 Current Temp is Pool or Spa Depending on the Valves, Output 4. I looked up the the how to for a virtual device and found that you select "Mios Developers" at the top, then select "create device" type or copy/paste the Dev and Imp file names from below and place in the appropriate place, type in a name under description and select what room you want it in. Then press create device. Note the foiles are already listed under Luup files so no need to upload any files (at least not for me)

I created a Scene, with a Timer every 2 Minutes, and LUUP Code,

The Code:

local temp1 = luup.variable_get("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:TemperatureSensor1","CurrentTemperature",116)

luup.variable_set("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:TemperatureSensor1","CurrentTemperature",temp1,109)

My 635 is device 116. Change that to whatever Device Number your 635 is.

My Virtual Temp Device is 109.  Change that to whatever Device Number your new Virtual Temp Device is.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on April 26, 2012, 05:43:25 pm
I'm interested in MultiWave and MCV. Can anyone tell me if MultiWave is controlling a Intelliflo variable speed pump over the RS485, you can still use the 5 relays for other loads. I want to control 2 blowers, 2 120V lights and a heater. As well as controlling 2 valves for pool and spa operation.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 26, 2012, 05:52:00 pm
Welcome!

The IntelliFlo pump does not consume one relay. You'd be best calling Intermatic tech support and asking for Frank's cell phone number. Alternately, you can PM uskiman. Since you're still below 25 posts, someone can do it for you, too.

What controls your heater? The PE653RC has some preprogrammed parts to it. Channel 1 is the pump, channel 5 is the heater (separate relay and a plastic strip to isolate the low voltage). Channel 4 will drive the pool/spa valves.

You can do what I do for the lights--use an appliance module.

The PE953 scene controller can still trigger scenes when you press buttons 1-5 and the MCV can intercept to activate a trigger upon pressing the button. It'll add $50 to your setup, but the job still gets done.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 26, 2012, 06:02:29 pm
What can I do with the PE953 scene controller?

When creating a trigger, I see I can add scene numbers. The PE953 has buttons 1-5. Do the buttons correspond with scene numbers?

If I want to know if P/S (pool/spa mode) has been pressed, can I monitor for that button press, too?

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on April 26, 2012, 08:47:22 pm
Hey Nick, Vera shows the status of the 5 Outputs and #4 is the Pool / Spa Valves.  I use the status of #4 as the event that triggers a scene. Do you need the actual button push?  Vera gets the status of #4 in a second or two after I push the P/S button.  Same with the other buttons and outputs.  I also get an e-mail anytime the heater (Output 5) goes on.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 26, 2012, 09:26:36 pm
Hello NIM,

I have some rudimentary stuff completed, but all is by watching or setting the five relay statuses. Since the MW remote button 4 is Pool/Spa and 5 is heat on/off, those buttons on the scene controller (PE953) are wasted. If I can see the button press of #4 or #5, I can use #4 or #5 to control something else in the system.

Can I override/trap/inhibit a button press? I would be able to STOP #1 from turning the pump on or off. Sure, I can currently watch the pump relay and force it on/off as I wish. Still, someone can press #1. Pump goes on. I can force it back off. The pump still cycles.

Can I see the actual button presses on the PE953? Can I modify their default behavior through MCV?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on April 27, 2012, 12:31:57 pm
I don't believe any of the communication between the 953 and 653 is exposed.  The only function the 953 has that we can use is when you set actual scenes in the 953.  Have you seen the Z-wave document from Intermatic?  It at least tells you what they have implemented in Z-Wave.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 27, 2012, 02:22:19 pm
Thank you. I didn't have that. C'mon MCV, get temp control instituted into Vera.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on April 28, 2012, 09:43:07 pm
I'm interested in MultiWave and MCV. Can anyone tell me if MultiWave is controlling a Intelliflo variable speed pump over the RS485, you can still use the 5 relays for other loads. I want to control 2 blowers, 2 120V lights and a heater. As well as controlling 2 valves for pool and spa operation.

Another first poster here with the exact same question!  I am thinking of getting a variable speed Intelliflo, but the manual is not clear at all what will happen with the buttons.  There are options for 1 and 2 speed, and what relays to use for what, but nothing with regard to variable speed. 

If I use a variable speed pump, will I still have buttons 2,3,4,5 doing the same as they do now (spa blower, cleaner booster pump, spa/pool relay, heater)?  What happens to button 1?  How do I control the pump speed?  Does that become a secondary menu I have to get to? 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 29, 2012, 01:43:36 pm
I'm interested in MultiWave and MCV. Can anyone tell me if MultiWave is controlling a Intelliflo variable speed pump over the RS485, you can still use the 5 relays for other loads. I want to control 2 blowers, 2 120V lights and a heater. As well as controlling 2 valves for pool and spa operation.

Another first poster here with the exact same question!  I am thinking of getting a variable speed Intelliflo, but the manual is not clear at all what will happen with the buttons.  There are options for 1 and 2 speed, and what relays to use for what, but nothing with regard to variable speed. 

If I use a variable speed pump, will I still have buttons 2,3,4,5 doing the same as they do now (spa blower, cleaner booster pump, spa/pool relay, heater)?  What happens to button 1?  How do I control the pump speed?  Does that become a secondary menu I have to get to?

I believe you get another page where you can get and set the pump speed.
Title: scene help
Post by: dkeefe on April 29, 2012, 01:48:22 pm
I've been trying to get use the pe953 remote to control some lights and a fan out by our pool but I'm not having any success. the lights and fan are controlled by ge switches, not circuits on the multiwave receiver.

the manual says to press the enter button to switch to the scene page, but that doesn't seem to work for me. nothing happens.

has anyone that has got this working mind posting a howto for me?

thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 30, 2012, 09:11:19 am
Are you in Primary or Secondary mode? I've seen the scene mode from time to time. I am not in front of mine.


you are quite familiar with it, so I imagine it is not easy.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 30, 2012, 09:12:05 am
secondary mode. I fear you lose this capability when in secondary mode...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on April 30, 2012, 02:08:20 pm
I'm interested in MultiWave and MCV. Can anyone tell me if MultiWave is controlling a Intelliflo variable speed pump over the RS485, you can still use the 5 relays for other loads. I want to control 2 blowers, 2 120V lights and a heater. As well as controlling 2 valves for pool and spa operation.

Another first poster here with the exact same question!  I am thinking of getting a variable speed Intelliflo, but the manual is not clear at all what will happen with the buttons.  There are options for 1 and 2 speed, and what relays to use for what, but nothing with regard to variable speed. 

If I use a variable speed pump, will I still have buttons 2,3,4,5 doing the same as they do now (spa blower, cleaner booster pump, spa/pool relay, heater)?  What happens to button 1?  How do I control the pump speed?  Does that become a secondary menu I have to get to?

I believe you get another page where you can get and set the pump speed.


Yes, I'm with you. The manual only shows variable pump with nothing else. I can do the light with GE wall switches since there's switches inside the house for that. So that leaves two-blower and heater. The heater is actually dead, I need to get a new one, so I'm making plans.

Chin
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on April 30, 2012, 02:35:04 pm
secondary mode. I fear you lose this capability when in secondary mode...
So, why shouldn't we be able to see the PE953 controller as any other scene controller? I'd like to ask this directly of Intermatic for their next firmware release.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 30, 2012, 03:37:20 pm
I don't know. That was pure speculation on my part. I could very well be doing something wrong.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on April 30, 2012, 04:33:47 pm
I'm interested in MultiWave and MCV. Can anyone tell me if MultiWave is controlling a Intelliflo variable speed pump over the RS485, you can still use the 5 relays for other loads. I want to control 2 blowers, 2 120V lights and a heater. As well as controlling 2 valves for pool and spa operation.

Another first poster here with the exact same question!  I am thinking of getting a variable speed Intelliflo, but the manual is not clear at all what will happen with the buttons.  There are options for 1 and 2 speed, and what relays to use for what, but nothing with regard to variable speed. 

If I use a variable speed pump, will I still have buttons 2,3,4,5 doing the same as they do now (spa blower, cleaner booster pump, spa/pool relay, heater)?  What happens to button 1?  How do I control the pump speed?  Does that become a secondary menu I have to get to?

I believe you get another page where you can get and set the pump speed.

OK, let me ensure I understand this.  If I get a variable speed pump that uses the RS485, I will retain all the current functionality I currently have with my 1 speed pump.  Plus, I will be able to use the Rely 1 for some other device, such as a pool light???  Or does Relay 1 remain in 'phantom' use by the pump?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 30, 2012, 04:36:36 pm
I'm pretty sure you can use circuit 1 for anything you want. you should read the manual to verify.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 02, 2012, 10:04:01 pm
When you connect the RS-485 to the pump it will add a new screen to the pe953.  You will also be able to set the speed 4 speeds for the pump.  Relay one then becomes open for you to use.
  FYI:  I have an Intelliflow VF.  The VF has features that are not usable when connected to the pe653.  Basically the RS-485 was designed for the 4 speed controls.  The VF pump has features that use 4 modes.  Like pump at 50gpm, not a speed of 500 rpm.  When the VF is using a mode it has safeties that protect the pump from things like plugged strainers, loss of prime, etc.  When you connect the VF pump to the pe653 those safety features are disabled.  I have asked Intermatice to rewrite the 485 driver to control modes, or at least make it an option.  I was told the market uses more of the 4 speed pumps so they will look at it when they get time.  Two years later still waiting.  If you pay for the VF you would want the features it provides.  I diconnected my pump from the pe653 and i control it with four light switches connected to a Pentair Intellicomm.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 03, 2012, 09:01:54 am
I've read lots of reports that the vf isn't all that great anyway. you might not be missing anything.

edit:

sorry I got confused. it was the svrs feature that wasn't very useful (the automatic vacuum breaker). the vf part does actually look interesting if it does report your flow. that would be great to optimize heat transfer.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 03, 2012, 10:36:30 am
since a coworker is currently getting his pump replaced with an intelliflo as we speak, I've been doing a little research on this.

that is too bad you lose the flow rate settings, but does it report the gpm on the pump's screen for a given rpm? so can't you pick the four flow rates you want, figure out what rpm those correspond to and set it that way? not perfect, but it should be close.

to add to the bad news, Allen confirmed my suspicions that when the pe953 is in secondary mode, you lose the scene controller. he said this would be something that mcv would need to change in order to support this. :(
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on May 03, 2012, 10:44:30 am
We must collectively stay on MiCasaVerde to support the MultiWave controller. MiCasaVerde has asked for developers to contribute and to expand the platform. They will need to do more than sit and watch as the platform grows.

Please send another email to MiCasaVerde support asking for the status on MultiWave integration.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 03, 2012, 12:01:25 pm
I have a couple of the VF Pumps.  You can program from the pump display what you want each of the four modes to do.  You can set a mode for a waterfall effect, have it run at a gpm for a minute speed up for a couple minutes slow back down, etc.  When you set a GPM the drive in the pump calculates the Flow with load and RPM.  So if you set a mode at 45 gpm, it will control the 45 gpm and factor in changes in your system.  So when the filter is clean it will run at a lower RPM to achieve the 45 gpm.  As the filter becomes dirty the drive will speed up to make up for the restriction.  All with added safeties of loss of flow, blocked systems, loss of prime, etc.  I have a large evaporation rate and no auto fill on the pool, so if I dont fill the pool the pump shuts off and doesn't melt down.  For me the VF was well worth the extra bucks.  I was disappointed when i connected the VF to the MultiWave and it disabled all the safeties.  I could have lived with the RPM in lew of the GPM if the safeties worked.   
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 03, 2012, 12:05:45 pm
wow, that is a bummer. have you asked imtermatic again about adding the vf features? is this really a imtermatic issue?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 03, 2012, 12:24:36 pm
It's been over a year, I will try again.  I have been waiting for the Pump Control and Solar Control.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 03, 2012, 12:44:21 pm
I'm waiting for solar control too.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 03, 2012, 12:53:22 pm
I sent Allen an e-mail asking about the VF Pump Mode Control and Solar Control.  I'll let you know id he replies.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 03, 2012, 12:54:18 pm
I'm pretty sure I know what we will say about solar as I recently asked him myself. I'm interested in his vf response, though.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 07, 2012, 10:58:16 am
The good new is Solar Control is coming, its a little while off but they are working on it. 

As for the VF Pump here is what I got "We decided not to address the VF Pentiar pump at this time since the major pump demand is for their VS pump and the remaining competitors pumps." 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 07, 2012, 11:03:25 am
so what your saying is I shouldn't waste money on the vf? :D
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 07, 2012, 11:13:27 am
If I were buying another pump today I would still buy the VF.  The features have been worth having.  It will just cost more to control using the IntelliComm and Z-Wave switches.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 10, 2012, 10:38:07 pm
I am about to pull the trigger on a VS-3050.  Anyone using that pump with this controller? 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 13, 2012, 12:44:00 am
I bought the intelliflo VS 011018 from pool supply world .com . Excellent pump. you can dial in the speed and watch the Power consumption on the LCD.
I just got the PE653RC in the PE24065RC bundle. It includes 2 valve actuator and the actuator interface controller and a 4 breaker panel. So far, I've got the PE653RC installed controlling the pump via the RS485 interface. I can set the timer to run the pump and button "3" on the PE653 seems to run the pump in the cleaner mode.
I've yet to learn more about it. BTW, the PE24065RC is under $500 at beverly hills electric. I think that's a good price.
When the PE653RC is controlling the pump, the display/keypad on the pump is locked out.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 14, 2012, 08:35:41 pm
Cool!  Great to hear someone who has actually installed the VS.  Help me understand this more. 
1) Can you still use button 3 for a separate pool cleaner booster pump if you want, like the default for a single speed pump? 
2) Can you still use Button 1 to turn the pump on and off?  I am curious of button is assignable to control the pump via RS485, or it if simply becomes a relay controller for relay 1. 
3) Can you set the pump to run at different speeds at different times of the day?

THANKS!!! 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 14, 2012, 09:10:48 pm
When you connect the RS485 to the pump you get a new control screen on the remote and a new setup screen to set the speeds.  The button on the main screen controls the relays.  You move to the VFD screen and the buttons then control the Pump speeds.  You have a seperate schedule for each (all 4) speeds.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 14, 2012, 09:41:21 pm
That is cool!  So I lose nothing I had before, but gain more control.  I am going to pull the trigger on the VS.  My main goal is energy savings, and it sounds like this pumps will allow me to dial in the right speeds for
 - solar during the day (very low speed),
 - cleaning (medium speed for main pump and turn booster pump on), and
 - for the spa (high speed). 

Thanks, guys!!  I will report back how my configuration goes when my pump arrives and I install it. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: jjcook on May 15, 2012, 06:34:37 am
Hi,
Just registerd on the forum as i have just had Vera installed in my Florida vacation home to control locks A/C and Pool Heat Pump. I am now looking to go one step further in the Pool/Spa control so am seeking advice/Info from the good guys on the forum.

As it's a rental property i would like to have some control but keep it simple.

Is it possible to control Pool Pump and Heat Pump using existing Mios system.
eg: "Vacant" = Pool Pump Speed 1 - Heat Pump Off
       "Occupied" = Pool Pump Speed 2 - Heat Pump OFF or Heat Pump ON Set Temp 1
When in "Occupied" mode only, current Spa "Egg Timer" to switch valves to Spa, increase Pool Pump to Speed 3 and increase Heat Pump to Set Temp 2.

This would allow me some control over whether the guest has Pool Heat or not but if they have paid for pool heat then they can also have the higher Spa temperature.

I know i'm asking a lot for a first post but any comment or recomendations would be appreciated. I do know a guy who is very good with "automation" but he has never tried this type of control so even some hints or tips may point him in the right direction to achieve what I want. If succesful i will certainly share the solution on the forum.

Thanks
jjcook

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 15, 2012, 02:20:46 pm
Cool!  Great to hear someone who has actually installed the VS.  Help me understand this more. 
1) Can you still use button 3 for a separate pool cleaner booster pump if you want, like the default for a single speed pump? 
2) Can you still use Button 1 to turn the pump on and off?  I am curious of button is assignable to control the pump via RS485, or it if simply becomes a relay controller for relay 1. 
3) Can you set the pump to run at different speeds at different times of the day?

THANKS!!!

I dont know the answer to your questions correctly. But as far as I know I enabled cleaner in the menus and when I press button 3, it turns on the pump. The other buttons when pressed, I can hear a relay click. However, pressing button 1 and 2 does nothing to the VS pump. Maybe there's some way to configure it.
Yes, you can program 4 schedule of different times and speeds. I'm not sure what happens when you have overlap schedules.
Right now I only have one schedule.

Hopefully, we can help each other to figure out the PE653RC and VS pumps.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 15, 2012, 10:34:37 pm
Cool!  Great to hear someone who has actually installed the VS.  Help me understand this more. 
1) Can you still use button 3 for a separate pool cleaner booster pump if you want, like the default for a single speed pump? 
2) Can you still use Button 1 to turn the pump on and off?  I am curious of button is assignable to control the pump via RS485, or it if simply becomes a relay controller for relay 1. 
3) Can you set the pump to run at different speeds at different times of the day?

THANKS!!!

I dont know the answer to your questions correctly. But as far as I know I enabled cleaner in the menus and when I press button 3, it turns on the pump. The other buttons when pressed, I can hear a relay click. However, pressing button 1 and 2 does nothing to the VS pump. Maybe there's some way to configure it.
Yes, you can program 4 schedule of different times and speeds. I'm not sure what happens when you have overlap schedules.
Right now I only have one schedule.

Hopefully, we can help each other to figure out the PE653RC and VS pumps.

Yes, I think I know why that happens.  Button 3 controls relay 3, which is connected normally to a booster pump for pressure side cleaners like the Polaris 380 that I have.  But booster pumps also require the main pump to  be running, so it turns on the VS when you press button 3.  It also is turning on relay 3 if you have anything attached to it.   It also does that on my current config.  When I press button 3, it first turns on the main pump on relay 1, then after a few seconds turns on the booster pump on relay 3. 

My new VS comes in Friday and I plan to install it this weekend and will report back. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 16, 2012, 02:10:17 am
blueman,
 I think you are right on. Now is there a way to know what speed is the pump running when button 3 is pressed. Perhaps it's the same as VS speed 3 setting. I wish there's more documentation when it comes to operating with a VS pump.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 16, 2012, 10:04:32 am
yes, the documentation of how the firmware works is non-existent.  But I assume it will be a simple trial and error mode to figure it out.  And yes, I hope it allows us to somehow set the speed to be used when the booster pump is required. 

Does anyone have a contact at Intermatic who might be able to provide help with options when using a variable speed pump?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 16, 2012, 10:06:17 am
Try Allen. He has been very helpful to me.

Allen Ustianowski
Pool/Spa Marketing Manager
Intermatic, Inc.
austiano@intermatic.com
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 16, 2012, 10:25:42 am
FYI:  When you connect the RS485 to the VS Pump you will be able to Start and Stop each of the Pumps (4) speeds from the Remote (PE953) but you can NOT control the Pump from Vera.  You will have to schedule the pump speeds from the Remote.  You will not be able to see the speeds or even if the pump is running.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 16, 2012, 07:21:45 pm
Does anyone know if the scheduling resides in the PE653 or the hand-held controller? Basically, if the hand-help controller is lost or broken will the PE653 still run the schedules?

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 16, 2012, 07:35:07 pm
I took the batteries out of my 953 (Remote) and the schedules still worked.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 16, 2012, 08:05:47 pm
Does anyone know if the scheduling resides in the PE653 or the hand-held controller? Basically, if the hand-help controller is lost or broken will the PE653 still run the schedules?

It all resides on the base unit.  You can tell because when you turn on the remote, it is completely blank in terms of info (time, temp, programs, etc) until it communicates to the base station. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 17, 2012, 02:57:05 am
Thanks for the feedback. I feel better. The remote is so easily misplaced/lost. In hind-sight, I think a permanently wired control-panel is a better solution for these kind of application.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 17, 2012, 08:10:46 am
for what kind of application? I don't really feel like tripping over a wire when I'm out by the pool and want to adjust the temp. :)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 17, 2012, 12:43:48 pm
dkeefe, I meant, for applications such as a pool automation, a hard-wired primary control panel, even at the pool-equipment pad would be nice. The wireless remote should just be a secondary. Much like some A/V equipment, you can still control the box from the button on it's front panel.

Most other automation controllers have the primary at the panel and then you add wireless. This is backwards, you start off wireless. That probably explains the why this cost lower than most other brands.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 17, 2012, 12:51:54 pm
On the slightly different topic. Have anyone updated the firmware using a non intermatic usb-stick. I would like to get the controlthink usb-stick. Since I can use it with other PC based control applications. I'm not sure about the intermatic CA8700 and it's usage besides upgrading PE653 firmware.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 17, 2012, 12:54:06 pm
I've only used intermatic's usb adapter. I'm not sure the intermatic sw will recognize any other type of usb adapter.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 17, 2012, 01:02:14 pm
I've only used intermatic's usb adapter. I'm not sure the intermatic sw will recognize any other type of usb adapter.

Which intermatic's usb adapter? CA8700? may I ask.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 17, 2012, 01:04:01 pm
yeah, the 8700.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 18, 2012, 12:27:47 am
Does anyone ever used PE653RC with other USB stick? such as controlthink.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 18, 2012, 11:40:03 am
On the slightly different topic. Have anyone updated the firmware using a non intermatic usb-stick. I would like to get the controlthink usb-stick. Since I can use it with other PC based control applications. I'm not sure about the intermatic CA8700 and it's usage besides upgrading PE653 firmware.

Great questions.  To make it clear for those who might be able to help us, I think there are 2 questions here:
1) does any other stick work when upgrading PE653 firmware
2) does the Intermatic 8700 USB stick work with other z-wave programs or is it just a firmware upgrade stick?


Title: VS-3050 (011018)
Post by: blueman2 on May 19, 2012, 12:22:16 pm
OK, I installed my VS-3050 (011018) last night.  I had a single speed Pentair before, and the dimensions of the pipes were identical, so the entire install including electrical was less than 90 minutes.  Sweet.  Bottom line: the firmware in the PE653 is quite configurable so I was able to get the system to do everything I wanted.  I do not have a MCV system yet, so cannot comment on the lack of accessibility from that, but the Intelliflo VS and the PE653 work great together.

The details:

As soon as I plugged the RS485 plug into the VS (be careful, as the wire polarity does matter on the PE653, so make sure you read the manual for where green vs yellow goes), the screen on the VS says "inactive" or something like that and the PE653 remote gets a new screen.  However, the VS based features for Priming and Freeze protection remain active, so you continue to get those benefits if you want them.  I turned off the Freeze protection on the VS, but left the Priming function intact. 

On the PE653 remote, each time you press Enter key, you go between the main screen you normally see (time, pool temp, spa temp, etc) and the variable speed pump screen.   Only down side is that my family was used to being able to turn on the pool pump from the main screen by pressing the 1 button.   Now, they have to press Enter to get to the Variable speed screen, and press one of the 4 buttons for speed of pump.  But you can customize the display so that the screen uses words like "Normal Speed" or "High Speed for cleaning" or whatever for each of the 4 buttons. Very nice.  You then can press Enter again to return to the main screen.  Each time you press enter, you toggle between the main screen and the Variable Speed screen.  A bit more complex but OK.  You can customize the speeds for each of the 4 buttons to whatever you want.  Each of the 4 speeds has its own timer function, just like each of the 5 Circuits in the main screen.  You access them the same way.  Go to the Variable Speed Pump screen, press and hold the P/S key, and the time of day on that screen is highlighted.  Press P/S again and you get to the screen for VSP 1 (first variable speed setting used for button 1).  You have 3 on/off times you can set.  Press P/S and you cycle through the 4 VSP settings.  You also change things like VSP speed and screen names by going to the Variable Speed Pump screen, press P/S and Enter for a couple seconds, and you access a set of screens that customize the VSP. 

Now, for those who have booster pumps for pressure side cleaners like the Polaris 380.  Go to the main screen, press both the P/S and Enter keys for a couple seconds.  Press down arrow until you come to the screen for each of the circuits.  Press 3 button for the booster pump.  You will see a setting that WAS set to CIR 1, which meant that when you turn on the booster pump, the system will turn on circuit 1 (relay 1) before starting the booster pump.  Just change that to VSP 1, 2, 3 or 4.  This is how you can customize what speed the main pumps runs at when the booster pump is on.  Very nice. 

With all of that done, I now have Relay 1 (button 1 on the main screen) open for use in something else.  Oddly, in the settings screens for the main screen section, you cannot change Circuit 1 to be anything but a pump.  Only choices are 1 speed pump or 2 speed pump.  No choice for no pump.  You would think that attaching a VSP would make the firmware realize you do not need another main pump on the Circuit section.  But so far, this does not seem to be causing any issues.  Circuit 1 is just a relay you can use for anything you want. 

As for the VS-3050 itself, all I can say is AMAZING!!!  At 1000 rpm, all I hear is the water flowing through the pipes.  You cannot hear the motor!  When not attached to the PE653 you can see how much power it is using in watts.  Very neat feature.  I am now tweaking the speeds for my solar so that it gives just enough pressure to get the water up and over the panels, but not so much that is causes too much pressure on the system. 

Oh, and when this pump is at full speed (3450 rpm), it will make my spa bubble and churn like I have never seen it do!  I guess that is what 3HP will do (vs the 1.5HP I had before).  Of course, I am sure this is using a lot of power when I do it.

Overall, I like this setup.  Highly recommend the VS for those with the PE653.  Mine cost $843 all in (free shipping, no tax here in Ca) and it arrived at my door step less than 48 hours after I ordered it!  Got it from Poolsrfuntoo on ebay.  I would have spent the extra $500 for the VF version if the PE653 supported its functions better.  The VF lets you dial in actual flow rates in GPM.  That would be idea for my solar panels since as my filter becomes clogged over time, a given RPM might no longer provide enough pressure to get the water over my solar panels.  GPM setting would automatically adjust for this pressure change.  However, someone else has mentioned that the GPM feature is not supported by the PE653 at this point.  Really too bad.

EDIT: I found out the hard way that you should not disconnect the RS485 once it is set up with the PE635.  When you do, the PE653 assumes you not longer have a VS pump, and erases all your timers and setup!!!  So when you reconnect the RS485 you have to go back in and set all your timers and settings again.  Pain in the butt. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 19, 2012, 04:07:27 pm
well, I work up this morning to find my pool pump had died. bummer. :D

I'm most likely going to go with the vf. hopefully intermatic can improve their fw to take advantage of the features.

with any luck I'll get it installed this week, but I need to order one.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 21, 2012, 08:53:40 am
Nova,

I'm still on the fence between the vs/vf pump. Do you lose the flow rate features with if you control it with an intellicom 2?

I'm also wondering if it would be possible to insert a microcontroller between the pe653 and the pump to convert the speed requests to flow requests. However I haven't found the protocol documentation. :(
Title: Re: VS-3050 (011018)
Post by: cslee on May 21, 2012, 02:40:27 pm

EDIT: I found out the hard way that you should not disconnect the RS485 once it is set up with the PE635.  When you do, the PE653 assumes you not longer have a VS pump, and erases all your timers and setup!!!  So when you reconnect the RS485 you have to go back in and set all your timers and settings again.  Pain in the butt.

blueman,
   I didn't know that. I'll keep that in mind to check the schedules whenever I unplug the RS485. However, if you power off both the pump and PE653, I think it will not erase the schedules. Do you have a spa-blower connected to the PE653? How did you configure it if you do?
BTW. have you look in to pump rebate from your utility co. I got $200 back from mine for installing the pump.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 21, 2012, 04:18:45 pm
dkeefe,

You do not loose any of the features of the VF Pump when connected to the Intellicom.  The Intellicom sets 4 modes instaed of 4 speed.  Also when connected to the Intellicom the pump display is still active.  When connected to Vera the display is locked out. 

I used 4 GE Light switches, connected to 4 120v coil relays, which connect to the inputs of the Intellicom.  Vera can control the light switches without any problems.  I added a few scenes to connect what happens when you use the 953 remote.  So when the Ladies push the pool / spa button relay 4 status changes to "On" and triggers the pump light switch that runs at spa speed, etc...  You know it works well when its Lady proof...

I beleive the protocol is Modbus.  Allen said they had to reverse engineer it because Pentiar won't provide it.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 21, 2012, 04:21:45 pm
Nova,

Thanks for the response. Do you mean the pump panel is disabled when the multiwave is connected, not vera?

I found some code that talks to the intelliflo stuff. I'll give it a try when I get the pump installed later this week.

Thanks again!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 21, 2012, 04:38:20 pm
Sorry, Yes when you connect the VF to the 653 the Dispaly on the Pump is disabled.  Can I ask where I might find that code?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 21, 2012, 04:40:07 pm
From here:

http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/13548-intelliflow-pump-rs485-protocol/ (http://cocoontech.com/forums/topic/13548-intelliflow-pump-rs485-protocol/)

I can send it to you if you want to avoid signing up to that forum just for the code. send me a pm if interested.
Title: Re: VS-3050 (011018)
Post by: blueman2 on May 21, 2012, 06:12:20 pm

EDIT: I found out the hard way that you should not disconnect the RS485 once it is set up with the PE635.  When you do, the PE653 assumes you not longer have a VS pump, and erases all your timers and setup!!!  So when you reconnect the RS485 you have to go back in and set all your timers and settings again.  Pain in the butt.

blueman,
   I didn't know that. I'll keep that in mind to check the schedules whenever I unplug the RS485. However, if you power off both the pump and PE653, I think it will not erase the schedules. Do you have a spa-blower connected to the PE653? How did you configure it if you do?
BTW. have you look in to pump rebate from your utility co. I got $200 back from mine for installing the pump.

First, on the rebate, I had no idea!!!  Just went to PG&E site and they do indeed offer a $100 rebate.  Thanks!!!!

If you power down the PE653 and VS at the same time (mine share a 240V circuit), then no problem.  It apparently is only a problem when you have the PE653 turned on and no VS.   Only way to solve it is to have the PE653 on its own switch (turn it off before disconnecting the RS485), which is not worth it.

Yes, I have a spa blower.  On relay (Circuit) 2.  On the relay/circuit menu screen (selected by pressing 'p/s' and 'Enter' from the main screen, not the vs screen), I have selected 1 speed pump (which is not used, leaving relay 1 open for other use), booster pump (defaults to circuit 3), pool&spa both active (so uses relay 4 to control valves), and heater on relay 5.  That left relay 2 for the spa blower. 

I am now considering putting my pool light on relay 1, since it is unused.   
Title: Re: VS-3050 (011018)
Post by: cslee on May 21, 2012, 06:30:52 pm

I am now considering putting my pool light on relay 1, since it is unused.   

You might want to use a general purpose z-wave switch to control the pool light. I'm thinking on doing just that. PE953 can control them.
Title: Re: VS-3050 (011018)
Post by: dkeefe on May 22, 2012, 08:28:31 am

I am now considering putting my pool light on relay 1, since it is unused.   

my pool light is controlled by is controlled by multiwave. the wiring was much easier this way.

You might want to use a general purpose z-wave switch to control the pool light. I'm thinking on doing just that. PE953 can control them.

that hasn't been my experience. once you pair multiwave with vera, you lose that functionality. I could be doing it wrong, though.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 24, 2012, 02:50:36 pm
well my vf showed up today from poolsupplyworld.com. it was $1090 shipped. they got it to me pretty quickly. it will be installed tomorrow.

I have a question for you vs owners, though. when the pump is connected to the pe653, does the keypad on the pump get locked out? If yes, how do you turn the pump on and off without the remote.

I can see this as a real problem with the vf when the keypad gets locked out by the pe653 and the pool guy needs to turn the pump on and off for cleaning.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 24, 2012, 03:44:31 pm
well my vf showed up today from poolsupplyworld.com. it was $1090 shipped. they got it to me pretty quickly. it will be installed tomorrow.

I have a question for you vs owners, though. when the pump is connected to the pe653, does the keypad on the pump get locked out? If yes, how do you turn the pump on and off without the remote.

I can see this as a real problem with the vf when the keypad gets locked out by the pe653 and the pool guy needs to turn the pump on and off for cleaning.

You are right, this is a problem.  When the RS485 is plugged in, the controls on the VS are locked out.  No control at all.  So ONLY way to manually turn on the pump is via the remote.  So, for example, if you have pool people come by to service your pool, and you do not leave the remote outside near your pumps, they have NO control!  Of course, they can just disconnect the RS485 which is pretty trivial and easy to do, but then you lose all your saved timer settings for the VS and have to manually re-create them all.

Yes, it is a problem. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 24, 2012, 04:06:39 pm
so the panel gets locked out with the vs, too. that is really annoying.  >:(
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 24, 2012, 04:34:58 pm
those with any intelliflo pumps should let intermatic know that the multiwave is really useless if the pump keypad is locked out when connected to the multiwave.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on May 24, 2012, 04:36:22 pm
those with any intelliflo pumps should let intermatic know that the multiwave is really useless if the pump keypad is locked out when connected to the multiwave.

Is that a MultiWave thing though?  It sounds like Intelliflo is doing that... 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 24, 2012, 04:44:24 pm
those with any intelliflo pumps should let intermatic know that the multiwave is really useless if the pump keypad is locked out when connected to the multiwave.

Is that a MultiWave thing though?  It sounds like Intelliflo is doing that...

when a pentair intellicom is connected to the pump, the panel isn't locked out. this is a multiwave/intermatic problem.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: NovaIceman on May 24, 2012, 08:57:49 pm
dkeefe, you are correct, when I have the Intellicom connected to the Pump the Display is not locked out and you can control the pump with the Display / Keys on the Pump even is the Intellicom is giving it a Mode Command.  Just hit the Manual button and take control.  Its a MultiWave issue.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on May 31, 2012, 04:56:11 pm
My pool-guy uses button "3" on the PE653 to run it vac. He forgets to turn it off. I dont want that to happen again. Is there an egg-timer on button "3", I can set for say 30 mins. So even if he forgets to turn it off, it runs for 30 mins only.


thanks.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on May 31, 2012, 04:58:52 pm
not that I know of in the multiwave, but you can program it to turn off at a fixed time everyday, say at 5:00 pm.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 31, 2012, 09:11:22 pm
My problem is that the pool guy cannot turn OFF my pump when he needs to clean the cartridge filters.   Only option is for him to go to the main electrical panel on my house an find the circuit for the pool shed.  Not ideal at all. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on May 31, 2012, 10:42:32 pm
My pool-guy uses button "3" on the PE653 to run it vac. He forgets to turn it off. I dont want that to happen again. Is there an egg-timer on button "3", I can set for say 30 mins. So even if he forgets to turn it off, it runs for 30 mins only.


thanks.
Make a scene "Vac off" Set it to turn off the VAC speed. Run it every 30 minutes.

Alternately, set a trigger for Vac off, triggered when Vac is turned on. Delay the off by 30 minutes.

I do this with the spa mode and spa blower on rentals. There's no reason to leave the blower on for more than five minutes. It simply cools the spa. I force it off after something like 15 minutes. Renters can turn it back on if they desire.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 01, 2012, 08:17:00 am
My problem is that the pool guy cannot turn OFF my pump when he needs to clean the cartridge filters.   Only option is for him to go to the main electrical panel on my house an find the circuit for the pool shed.  Not ideal at all.

that's why I haven't wired my vf pump to the multiwave yet.

after a week I have mixed feelings about the vf pump. I think it is too smart for its own good. the stupid service system warning is really annoying and the only way I can get it to shut up is to set the filter pressure really high. kind of defeats the purpose...

I do love the silence by the pool with the new pump. the only thing you can hear is the fan and only if you get close to the pump.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on June 01, 2012, 09:08:25 am
Agreed.  The silence of the pump has a huge WAF (wife acceptance factor).  And the ability to tune it down to slow speeds is saving me about 70% on electricity right now.  But the MultiWave control is not working great.  OK, but not great.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on June 01, 2012, 01:08:06 pm
My problem is that the pool guy cannot turn OFF my pump when he needs to clean the cartridge filters.   Only option is for him to go to the main electrical panel on my house an find the circuit for the pool shed.  Not ideal at all.

I left the old clock there so the pool guy can turn it off manually. It turn off both the pump and PE653.
I see that when button 3 is pressed, the remote says VSP "4" is on, so I'll add a schedule to turn OFF/ Can you have a schedule to turn off without a turn on ?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 01, 2012, 01:10:52 pm
Can you have a schedule to turn off without a turn on ?

no. I had to turn the circuit on 1 minute before the off time. I did this with my heater power so I could guarantee that it couldn't get left on.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on June 01, 2012, 06:30:40 pm
Has anyone used another z-wave remote control (like the GE simple remote) with the PE653?  I am wondering if I can buy a cheap z-wave remote and use it to control VSP section of the multiwave.  Then I just leave that remote near the system at all times.  The Multiwave remote is over $150!! ???  But the GE simple z-wave remote is $6.99 shipped on ebay!!!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on June 13, 2012, 06:35:39 pm

no. I had to turn the circuit on 1 minute before the off time. I did this with my heater power so I could guarantee that it couldn't get left on.

I tried but it didn't work. I have a schedule on VS speed 1 ON at 8:00am and OFF at 6:00pm. The I added a VS speed 4 ON at 11:59am and OFF at 12:00pm. The next day I found the pump turned off but didn't go back to VS speed 1 at 12:00pm.
Maybe I just need two schedule for VS speed 1. one from 8:00am to 11:59am and another from 12:00pm to 6:00pm.
That way when my pool guy comes in the morning, and he forgets to turn the cleaner speed off, it will turn off at 11:59am for one minute and back on at low speed at 12:00pm.

Maybe I'll do 3 schedules just in case he comes late sometimes.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: adjohan on July 05, 2012, 12:48:23 pm
I'm trying to implement temp control with vera turning on/off the multiwave switch to the heater.
I'm adding the code as part of the lua code for temp display to the virtual temperature in a scene

Code: [Select]
local targetTemp = 82

local temp1 = luup.variable_get("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:TemperatureSensor1","CurrentTemperature",19)
luup.variable_set("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:TemperatureSensor1","CurrentTemperature",temp1,27)

if temp1 < targetTemp then
  luup.call_action("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1", "SetTarget", {newTargetValue = "1"}, 24)
else
  luup.call_action("urn:upnp-org:serviceId:SwitchPower1", "SetTarget", {newTargetValue = "0"}, 24)
end

I'm finding that the if block never get executed including the else code.
The code works without the if block/else block.
Anyone has idea why? Sorry for the noobie question.
Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on July 10, 2012, 11:31:51 am
Any updates on the MUltiWave (i.e. new firmware?) I am getting ready to really use it (automate the spa/pool mode and heater control).  Does it control both a solar and gas heater setup?  i.e. can I say use Solar if you can then go to gas heater if needed?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 16, 2012, 10:56:03 am
currently there is no support for solar. latest info I got about solar support is the end of the year at the earliest. when I get around to adding solar to our pool, I'll have the same setup as you (gas and solar heat). I'd like the ability to control which is used.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on July 16, 2012, 11:08:06 am
@dkeefe

Thanks for the info...  What is the URL to get the latest firmware?  I went looking for it and couldn't find it.  I have the special USB stick to upgrade.... just waiting...  ;)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 16, 2012, 11:15:19 am
it appears to have vanished. see the other thread I posted in. you can try contacting intermatic about it.

31 was the last version I saw. I have it at home and can send it you you if needed.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on July 16, 2012, 11:18:24 am
it appears to have vanished. see the other thread I posted in. you can try contacting intermatic about it.

31 was the last version I saw. I have it at home and can send it you you if needed.

I think I am on 31...  Just was hoping they had followed through with their updates, but I guess not. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 16, 2012, 11:21:09 am
you can contact allen, but I don't think there has been anything after 31 released. I asked about intelliflo vf support at the end of may, and he didn't indicate that there was a newer firmware available then.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: eddie on July 18, 2012, 11:55:45 pm
Upgraded Vera to 1.5.408.  Now connection to Multiwave is gone.  Had to go back to the Remote.  Anyone else have this problem?  I tried reseting the Multiwave, but it had no effect.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 19, 2012, 08:01:15 am
what version zwave fw are you running? multiwave doesn't work with 3.2.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: eddie on July 19, 2012, 11:45:12 pm
what version zwave fw are you running? multiwave doesn't work with 3.2.

reverted back to 2.8 and life is better.  Weird that it worked before.  Thanks
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 22, 2012, 10:53:35 pm
Okay guys I am getting ready to go to our rental home in 2 weeks. One of my things to do is to get the pool controller to work better. I get tired of the frequent heals that are needed because it loses communications with Vera. First on my list is to relocate the auxiliary antenna to a higher location.

A big question is in regards to Vera software level. I current am at Vera 2, UI4, 3.20. MCV has asked me repeatedly to upgrade to UI5. However I have heard that the Multiwave only works with 2.78 at the installation stage.

Can or should I upgrade to a Vera 3? Note I have about 50 modules in the system and am probably taxing the Vera 2.

Do I need to revert to 2.78, and if so can I upgrade to UI5 with 2.78 or is 3.20 required?

Or should I stay at UI4 and if so should I revert to 2.78, at which time I had fewer communication issues?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on July 23, 2012, 08:29:43 am
Okay guys I am getting ready to go to our rental home in 2 weeks. One of my things to do is to get the pool controller to work better. I get tired of the frequent heals that are needed because it loses communications with Vera. First on my list is to relocate the auxiliary antenna to a higher location.

A big question is in regards to Vera software level. I current am at Vera 2, UI4, 3.20. MCV has asked me repeatedly to upgrade to UI5. However I have heard that the Multiwave only works with 2.78 at the installation stage.

Can or should I upgrade to a Vera 3? Note I have about 50 modules in the system and am probably taxing the Vera 2.

Do I need to revert to 2.78, and if so can I upgrade to UI5 with 2.78 or is 3.20 required?

Or should I stay at UI4 and if so should I revert to 2.78, at which time I had fewer communication issues?

@minnies

I can only answer part of your question... I run a Vera 3 with UI5 and am running 2.78 for compatibility with the MultiWave.  I have read in other forums that you can see significant performance improvement on a Vera 2 if you use an external USB stick for logging.  Must improve swap space which may help if you upgrade.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 23, 2012, 12:56:46 pm
Thanks Aschwalb,

If I do choose to upgrade to Vera3 I should go back to 2.78 before saving and starting a transition? Any other concerns related to Vera3 and UI5? Note I think I need to upgrade to avoid the UI5 pitfalls given how many devices I have installed.

Ron
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on July 23, 2012, 01:02:54 pm
Thanks Aschwalb,

If I do choose to upgrade to Vera3 I should go back to 2.78 before saving and starting a transition? Any other concerns related to Vera3 and UI5? Note I think I need to upgrade to avoid the UI5 pitfalls given how many devices I have installed.

Ron

@Minnies, not sure it matters the order of reverting back to 2.78.  I just know (based on this thread) that you cant include the MultiWave if you are on 3.2.  The only other thing I have notices being on 2.78 is that my Leviton Zone controllers include differently than my 3.2 configured Vera's.  I like UI5 and my Vera 3's.  I would go with a full Vera 3 versus the VeraLite with 50+ devices though.  JMHO...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on August 20, 2012, 11:12:17 pm
Two times, I reverted to 2.78, then re-enabled 3.2. After inclusion, the PE653 works great.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on August 20, 2012, 11:37:21 pm
I completed the upgrade and all seems okay so far.  Pool temp updates seem a bit sluggish but I will give it a while to see if it improves. I also relocated the antenna to what I expect to be a better location.  The pool controller is showing quite a few neighbors now. But unfortunately in autoroute most have an X every time I look at it. I guess that means the links get broken through the day. I am observing nightly heals, though wih IU5 I am not sure how to see the data we used to see in UI4 regarding heals.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: rudholm on August 31, 2012, 02:48:18 pm
What is the state of MCV's compatibility with Intermatic's PE653 receiver and PE953 hand-held controller these days?  I have the "I-Wave" PE650/PE950 product which I know isn't standard Z-Wave compatible (correct me if I'm wrong, please) and was thinking about getting a 653/953 so I can remotely control and monitor pool temp but I wanted to ask folks who are actually using these products how they work before I spend the money.  I've read through this thread and it sounds like the history has been spotty.  Are things working well now?  Anything special I should know?  Does remote temperature monitoring/control work?  Can I log into my Vera 2 and see and set my pool temp?

I'd like to be able to set my pool temperature with my MCV product so I can log in from work or wherever and have the temp where I want it when I get home.  I'm sure this is a pretty common requirement.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on September 11, 2012, 08:07:41 pm
AFAIK, setting pool temp is not possible. Intermatic swears they are waiting for MCV to add support. Reading the temp is possible with some workarounds.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: rudholm on October 09, 2012, 05:14:32 pm
That's unfortunate, and a bit puzzling.  It seems like it would be the same as any thermostat, and I know "Thermostat" is a device type that MCV supports.  I *really* want to be able to use my MCV Vera2 to control my pool temp remotely so I can come home to find the pool/spa pre-heated.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on October 09, 2012, 06:26:07 pm
That's unfortunate, and a bit puzzling.  It seems like it would be the same as any thermostat, and I know "Thermostat" is a device type that MCV supports.  I *really* want to be able to use my MCV Vera2 to control my pool temp remotely so I can come home to find the pool/spa pre-heated.
It is unfortunate and puzzling. I really want that too. Contact MCV. I can understand it if you're frustrated. Many of us who have MCV and MultiWave are frustrated bout this situation. Intermatic is frustrated, too.

Nick
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on October 09, 2012, 07:25:16 pm
Are we sure it is all MCV?  I ask as I cannot change the number for temp setting in the advanced tab (under CurrentSetPoint). When I do it resets back to the previous setting. I have found the only way to change the setting is with the handheld device.  It is the handheld device that MCV would need to mimic. That would then have ambient temp available, which is not even included in the advanced tab.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on October 09, 2012, 07:57:45 pm
I'm not a hardcore programmer type, so I can't answer with certainty. I do know I have an add-in that uses a one-minute scene to update the pool temp. The pool temp is shown in the Adv. tab, but is not settable.

Regardless of who or why, I want to be able to control the pool temp. The barriers preventing getting it done seem small to me.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: rudholm on October 09, 2012, 09:21:10 pm
Is there an open ticket / bug request for this at MCV I can reference?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: rudholm on October 15, 2012, 09:01:34 pm
Has anyone considered modifying a regular thermostat?   It seems to me that the temperature range of standard home thermostats is correct (typically 65F to 105F or so).  Pool heaters just look for contact closure to turn on or off.  You'd have to modify the thermostat so that its temperature sensor is either replaced by one of the Intermatic pipe sensors or you'd have to move the sensor in the thermostat to the plumbing.  You could probably get away with mounting the sensor on a polished bit of your plumbing if your pipes are copper or other metal.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: MarkC on October 16, 2012, 10:35:46 am
Hi Folks,

I have been reading through this thread since I poseted over a year ago but can't see if anyone has yet figured out how to control a VS Intelliflo pump with Vera? Also did anyone find the link to the P653 firmware update?

Thanks for your help,

Mark
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Merlyn on November 04, 2012, 10:35:22 am
hi guys
I have been tryin to follow this for awhile and am a little confused as to what is working and which versons

I have the mutliwave unit PE653 with the Pe953 hanheld
I am running vera3 with UI5 and a 3.2 L:1 ver
the multiwave is currently not connected to vera
I am not sure which version of software is the multiwave but dont think it was ever upgraded

what do I need to do to include it in my system?
I currently have vera 1 and 2 sitting in boxes from upgrades should i use them to talk to the Multiwave? and include them in the network?

Thanks
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on November 04, 2012, 12:43:29 pm
My understanding is you need to revert to 2.8, install the pool controller first, then the handheld. After that you can upgrade to 3.20 and it should be okay. Okay as much as the level of control indicated in this thread. We are still waiting for temperature control and additional data like ambient air, etc. there could be more for those using variable speed, solar/spa control, etc.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on November 12, 2012, 08:21:04 am
+1 for what Minnies says. Revert Z-Wave to 2.78, connect the 953 to VERA, connect the 653 to VERA, then connect the 653 to 953. Then, upgrade to Z-Wave firmware 3.2 again. My earlier post in this thread goes into much more detail.

I have two separate homes running using this configuration and procedure. It is fully repeatable.

Send a message to MCV asking about better control of the MultiWave!

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: rudholm on November 19, 2012, 02:20:27 pm
I'm going to retrofit a z-wave thermostat to use with my pool heater.

Question for the forum.  I need to identify which thermostats have a heat setting up to 104F.  I bought a 2-Gig one, and it's nice but only goes to 90F (which is fine, I'll just use it with the house's HVAC).

User's manuals and tech specs don't always seem to say what the temperature range is, so any info from z-wave thermostat users would be appreciated.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on November 22, 2012, 12:12:16 pm
BREAKING NEWS

MCVDaniel added some software to my Veras. I am now able to read and set the pool heat setpoints.

Note: I'm still working to understand all the settings, etc. The control looks like a thermostat.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on November 22, 2012, 12:40:34 pm
Is this a beta test or available for all users?  This is what I have been looking for.

Does it show ambient temp as well?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on November 22, 2012, 01:10:18 pm
Ask MCV on beta. I suspect it is open to anyone.

It shows as a thermostat device with heat, cool, auto etc.

Current temp shows in the device properties (may not have page title right).
Heat and cool setpoints show. Only heat does anything.

I sped the polling to 20s.

I will test more after lunch, like setpoint limits.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on November 22, 2012, 07:42:07 pm
I've done minor testing. The control works well for what I need. It shows the current pool temp, allows a min and max to be set and, most importantly, allows me to set the current pool temperature.

I now have a schedule that turns the pool heat off. This is very cool, indeed.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on November 24, 2012, 10:03:36 pm
Ndemarco,
That sounds promising.  Maybe this thread will actually be able to close some day since it is having birthdays now :)
However, it won't work for me commercially until the control allows for a dual set point for the Pool/Spa combo settings.  That is the real trick.  I take it your setup is just for a pool?  Let me know how it is working though.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on November 24, 2012, 10:21:18 pm
Correct. The control is exactly like the Thermostat control at the moment.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on December 14, 2012, 12:39:53 pm
Correct. The control is exactly like the Thermostat control at the moment.

Outstanding!  I guess I will take the effort to pair my system now...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mr crewcab on December 26, 2012, 09:18:48 pm
So just to recap, we can now view our pool water temp and have a setpoint, which i gather controls relay5 on the Multiwave.

Can we control the different relay outputs on the MultiWave via Vera? for say lighting or minimum runtimes for different pump speeds.

I know that you can set schedules in the MultiWave but i need to be able to edit them or make separate ones on vera. do you think this is doable?

Thanks for any info

KevinR

So many questions, so little time
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on December 26, 2012, 09:28:13 pm
KevinR,

When you add the MW to the ZWave network (follow the earlier posts carefully!), the 653 panel appears as five switches + a controller. The 953 appears as a Scene Controller.

You can actuate any of the five devices, but the MW firmware will constantly override. So, for example, trying to turn off heat by "forcing" output 5 off will not work very well. The polling nature of the ZWave network (I think) means the 653 controller will turn on the heat more often than you can re-force it off.

At our rentals, I use the MW to turn on and off the pumps for routine filtration. I use Vera to shut down the pools in the evening and to override the pool/spa temperature setpoints. Also, I have automation that turns off the spa after each 1h it has been activated. This emulates the hotel pool with the twist mechanical timer. You get 1h of spa, then it switches off.

Additionally, before I shut the pool down at night, I flash the pool light a few times as a five minute warning.

It's kind of fun to see it in operation. Our energy bills for the rental properties like it a lot, too.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: uskiman on January 02, 2013, 04:10:47 pm
Hello everyone.

We now have the new 3.2 version of the MultiWave software posted on the Intermatic website.  I tested the website and successfully downloaded both the program/firmware and instructions for installing.  Remember, you must have the USB Zwave stick to update your system.  The 3.2 firmware address many issues brought to our attention by our current customer base, however, it does not address the Verde issues which reside on their side of the program.  A 3.3 update will be available later this year along with a new actuator controller that greatly enhances the functionality of the system.  If you have any questions, please let me know. 
Thanks!
Allen
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: cslee on February 08, 2013, 06:27:27 pm
uskiman,
  I'm trying to upgrade PE653 to 3.2. I've a controlthink USB stick. It seems to not see either PE653 or PE953. Does it only work with intermatic usb stick ?

Chin
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: oTi@ on February 15, 2013, 02:31:38 pm
[...]The polling nature of the ZWave network (I think) means the 653 controller will turn on the heat more often than you can re-force it off.
As a workaround, you could create a dedicated poll scene and/or a dedicated scene that keeps turning things off?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: eddie on February 17, 2013, 03:12:10 pm
Chin

I am having the same issue.  Has anyone else been able to upgrade the firmware using another USB stick. 
I tried with both ControlThink and Aeon USB stick.  Nether worked. ???

Eric


uskiman,
  I'm trying to upgrade PE653 to 3.2. I've a controlthink USB stick. It seems to not see either PE653 or PE953. Does it only work with intermatic usb stick ?

Chin
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: eddie on February 21, 2013, 11:14:29 pm
Well, I will answer my own question.

Yes You need a CA8700.   I went a head and got one and the firmware upgrade software found it right away.  NOTE:  THIS IS WINDOWS 32 bit only.
So I had to find us an old XP machine.
Next to takes over an hour to update the firmware! And the dongle does not have very good range so you need to close to your Pool receiver.


Chin

I am having the same issue.  Has anyone else been able to upgrade the firmware using another USB stick. 
I tried with both ControlThink and Aeon USB stick.  Nether worked. ???

Eric


uskiman,
  I'm trying to upgrade PE653 to 3.2. I've a controlthink USB stick. It seems to not see either PE653 or PE953. Does it only work with intermatic usb stick ?

Chin
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mr crewcab on February 23, 2013, 12:15:15 pm
Just a thought,
Most of the problems appear to be with trying to sort out the remote controller, what if the remote was left out of the equation and controlled the pump speed and the extra contacts just by vera. maybe use a different scene controller or something of the sort?
Do you think the vera is reliable enough to control all the operations? the snag is we live 1800 miles away from the pool so resetting anything is more than a little awkward.

Thanks
KevinR
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on February 23, 2013, 01:45:34 pm
Not sure if that is a good proposal for all unless Vera can be used to provide some of the features.  I use the freeze protection routine so if the ambient temp goes below a value the pump is turned on to prevent freezing pipes. I also use the remote to program a minimum pump run time every day as a back-up to Vera. And lastly, the controller is the only way I have been successful to provide a set point for heat pump operation.

Note I have not yet upgraded the Multiwave software as I received the Intermatic memory stick too late for my most recent trip. I was hoping to hear more positive results from others that had made the upgrade and MCV making appropriate revisions to Vera to allow thermostat like control for the pool. Also would really like the ambient temp output.

Note I am also 1200 miles from the pool and not able to visit frequently (darn!)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mr crewcab on February 23, 2013, 02:37:34 pm
Minnies, thanks for the info,

Here are a few question open to everyone

How reliable is your setup and do you like it?

Would you do it this way again if you had the choice?

So you program minimum run times into the 953 for filtering and if you want to run the waterfall, you turn it on with the 953 remote?

Can you turn on your pool light with either the 953 or Vera

Can you turn on your back yard lights with either the 953 or Vera

Does the freeze protection need to have the remote enabled to start the pump?

Can you turn the heat on before you get there?
Sorry for all the questions but they are just starting our pool now and I told them I will supply the controls, getting down to crunch time.

Kevin R

P.S. if anyone else has any good ideas, whether or not they use vera or intermatic, I could sure use them
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on February 23, 2013, 06:09:21 pm
Mine is now reliable. I had problems getting a reliable signal but relocated the antenna and it is now reasonably reliable.

I use the separate breakers to control other features including the heat pump power. You have several available for whatever you want. I also use the temperature sensor for remote heat pump control. Only deficiency is being unable to change the temp set point.

As for the 953 remote I do not think it does anything after programming, and I expect that programming is resident in the multiwave itself.  When I am at the house I use the 953 to control things but that is the only use I have. But without it I am not sure how anyone could set the temp set point.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on February 24, 2013, 07:39:52 am
I cannot believe after all this time, we are still at the same point of having one company with a Z-Wave pool controller and one company that can manage it but still MCV will not work with Intermatic on a full interface to manage the controller.  Due to this, I try to keep my eyes on all other company solutions.  Now Zodiac(Jandy) has the iAuqaLink that works by getting an IP address on your local network and then there is a remote app for the phone and web.  So no Z-Wave.  The cost is still higher but Intermatic's unit seems to be driving the prices lower.  You could be better off having any home controller you want and a separate app to manage the pool.  Not ideal but it might be better than waiting forever for MCV and Intermatic to build a bridge.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on April 08, 2013, 10:11:02 pm
Hello everyone.

We now have the new 3.2 version of the MultiWave software posted on the Intermatic website.  I tested the website and successfully downloaded both the program/firmware and instructions for installing.  Remember, you must have the USB Zwave stick to update your system.  The 3.2 firmware address many issues brought to our attention by our current customer base, however, it does not address the Verde issues which reside on their side of the program.  A 3.3 update will be available later this year along with a new actuator controller that greatly enhances the functionality of the system.  If you have any questions, please let me know. 
Thanks!
Allen

Uskiman, I read your upgrade procedures from the website but have a question.  I have 2 PE953 handheld controllers, one master one slave.  Is the upgrade procedure different when you have 2 handhelds?  Do they both have to be in learn mode?  I am guessing there is something special that is needed.  Any help is appreciated. 


EDIT: Well, it turns out that the program that does the firmware upgrade recognizes all your extra remote controllers.  You just have to 'wake them up' before each one gets its firmware loaded.  It will notify you when you need to press a button to wake them up.  The firmware upgrade went flawlessly, though it took almost an HOUR to load all the firmware!!!!  And the new features, while not helping with micasa issues, are fantastic and long overdue. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on April 12, 2013, 06:09:53 pm
Firmware 3.2 for the PE653RC adds some neat features for users, but there is absolutely NO documentation on how to use or trigger some the features!! 

I did stumble across how to activate one feature.  That is the ability to turn a VSP on and off from the main control panel (receiver box).  With this feature, your pool service people no longer need to ask for your hand held controller.  You activate this feature by pressing and holding button 1 for about 5-10 seconds until it starts blinking.  Press again to turn pump on.  Press again to turn pump off.  I just figured this out by pushing all the buttons in different ways to see what happens since there is no documentation on the new firmware.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 17, 2013, 01:03:18 pm
wow! I go away for 6 months and now it seems like some progress has been made. yeah!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 25, 2013, 02:42:44 pm
Well, I made the mistake of updating both the firmware on my multiwave (to 3.2) and my vera (to 1.5.622), and yes it does seem that vera now treats the multiwave as a thermostat! yeah!

the bad news is had to reset my multiwave system to the defaults before I added it back in vera. I can add both the receiver and the controller back in vera, but it seems the controller can no longer control the multiwave system. All the pool related config items are gone from the controller! Grrrrr.  >:(

I am running zwave fw 2.78 on the vera.

Anyone seen this or have any suggestions?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 25, 2013, 02:45:52 pm
Firmware 3.2 for the PE653RC adds some neat features for users, but there is absolutely NO documentation on how to use or trigger some the features!! 

I did stumble across how to activate one feature.  That is the ability to turn a VSP on and off from the main control panel (receiver box).  With this feature, your pool service people no longer need to ask for your hand held controller.  You activate this feature by pressing and holding button 1 for about 5-10 seconds until it starts blinking.  Press again to turn pump on.  Press again to turn pump off.  I just figured this out by pushing all the buttons in different ways to see what happens since there is no documentation on the new firmware.

nice find! I emailed Allen asking for some release notes, but haven't gotten a response.

I've played around with one new feature and have figured it out: heater safety enable/disable. When enabled, circuit 1 must be on in order for the heater to be turned on. When disabled, the heater can be turned on regardless of circuit 1's state. This is handy if you have a variable speed pump connected via rs485 and don't use circuit 1 to turn the pump on and off.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on April 25, 2013, 03:37:12 pm
I've played around with one new feature and have figured it out: heater safety enable/disable. When enabled, circuit 1 must be on in order for the heater to be turned on. When disabled, the heater can be turned on regardless of circuit 1's state. This is handy if you have a variable speed pump connected via rs485 and don't use circuit 1 to turn the pump on and off.

I was wondering what that feature was for.  My heater has a pressure safety which will not allow the heater to start unless it sees positive pressure above a certain threshold on its inlet.   So there is not need for the additional safety from the PE653RC.  I should also disable this. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 26, 2013, 12:19:09 am
So I made the update today. As stated I was not successful in getting the handheld o work any more. I could add t as a scene controller, but with no capability. I spoke with Intermatic (thanks Dan) but no luck. It appears to be a Vera frame issue. The only solution is to pair the and he'd with the pool controller, program necessary aspects such as freeze mode and remote heater control, then unpaired and repair the controller to Vera. Painful to be sure.

So are the variables for those and maybe ambient temp available through Vera? Any other ideas?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on April 26, 2013, 08:18:49 am
so it is a vera issue? have you filled a report with them?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on April 26, 2013, 09:10:56 am
Yes.

Question can you revert back to the previous firmware on Vera to reinstall the pool controller and remote and then update to the new firmware? That may be my only route at this time. 2 days before leaving the house. And right now I have lost pool heater remote control. :(
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: karmabiker on May 19, 2013, 12:05:18 pm
In the short term (Until I can get a Vera) I am using the 653 as the "brains" and circuit 4 to control my 220V stenner pump.  The rub is that circuit 4 want to spin the whole mess into spa mode.  I don't have an ME4243 installed and cant figure out how to tell the system that Circuit 4 is NOT switching between pool and spa.  Ideas?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 19, 2013, 02:05:43 pm
I believe circuit 4 is forced into Pool/Spa control if you set up the system with Pool/Spa enabled. You can tell the system you only have Pool, and circuit 4 will be left for your own use. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: karmabiker on June 12, 2013, 11:59:17 am
Confirmed on the CIR4 - it is forced into spa actuator mode if you are setup Pool / Spa

For the time being mysetup:
CIR1 - High Speed
CIR2 - Low Speed
CIR3 - Booster for Polaris
CIR4 - Stenner Pump / Chlorinator
CIR5 - Heater

Works like a champ.

I'm ready to get a Vera and a ZWave switch to control the Stenner and install pump actuators for the spa.... hmmm.  When do I have a free weekend.
Title: Temp sensor issues
Post by: dkeefe on July 16, 2013, 08:31:29 am
Off topic, but has anyone here experienced issues with the water temp sensor (part # pa122) failing? I just installed my third one in three years. They seem to last about a year before they fail, which so far is always the same way. The sensor housing that extends into the pipe cracks vertically and water gets into it.

The first one actually leaked water where the wire exits the sensor, which is how I found it. The second failure didn't result in a leak, but the temp reading on the remote was bogus or not showing up.

The air temp has never fallen below 40 degrees since I installed the multiwave, so it isn't a freezing issue. I only snug the cable clamp down just enough to stop any leaks, and even if I did over tighten it I wouldn't expect the housing to crack where it does.

I thought I'd throw it out there to see if anyone else has had this problem. At this rate, I'll have spent more on temp sensors than the unit itself in a few more years! :)

Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on July 16, 2013, 09:52:51 am
No problem with the temp sensor here (knock on wood). I installed the system in 2010 I believe and have not touched the sensor since. I mistakenly purchased a second one so have a spare.

I have noted a strange temperature variation though. That is the temp climbs during the day and then drops off a couple degrees and starts to climb again, at about the same rate. Does it whether there is active heating or not and just about the same temp each time. Somewhere around 85 degrees at the peak and then down to 82 or 83.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 16, 2013, 09:55:51 am
Ha! I had bought a spare too as it wasn't clear that it came with the water temp sensor!

Mine climbs up to 6 degrees a day but I attributed that to the sun. My pool is always cooler in the morning than in the late afternoon.

One other thing I had to do was set the temp offsets for both senors to -2 degrees.

Thanks for the response.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on July 16, 2013, 12:05:45 pm
Make that 3 of us!  I also bought an extra sensor because I did not realize it came with one.  But I ended up using the extra sensor with a solar control unit so no loss. 

As far as sensors failing, not here.  Installed about 3 years ago and not an issue yet.  I have taken them off and replaced them twice due to my desire to change the routing of plumbing in my pool house, but never seen any cracking or issues. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 16, 2013, 01:57:17 pm
I guess I just have some bad luck.

Thanks for the responses!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on July 16, 2013, 02:18:15 pm
Also, are you perhaps tightening them too much?  I am sure you have thought of that, but just to raise it. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 16, 2013, 02:31:12 pm
I don't think so. I only tighten it until the leaking stops. You can still wiggle it a bit.

Plus I don't see how over tightening it would cause the crack where it happens.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on July 16, 2013, 02:58:35 pm
Agreed.  I actually tighten mine probably too tight so doubt that would be the cause, but just had to raise it. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Bb98 on July 18, 2013, 11:02:53 pm
I installed my MultiWave and temperature sensor over the last several days.  Haven't had enough time for it to crack yet. :)

I am seeing some issue with the temperature.  I have a Raypak 266a heater.  When I use the PE953 to control the MW, the temperature reading on the PE953 reads exactly the same as the Raypak's readout.  When I use Vera to control the MW the temperature is just about always 1 degree lower than the Raypak's readout.  It also takes several minutes (5+) for the temperature to update on Vera.

I also see that when the pump is off the sensor is not reporting a good temperature as it is reporting the temperature of the water sitting idle in the plumbing.

My biggest headache though is getting the PE953 working as a secondary controller.  Support just downgraded my Vera to 2.78.  Still, when I add the PE953 it hangs.  I am:
1. Standing by the Vera
2. Go to Add Devices -> Advanced Z wave devices -> Add One
3. On the PE953 I go to the control screen and choose option 3 receive net and config (also tried option 2 recover net only).
With either button I get "successful" but the controller hangs - light wont even go off.
I take the batteries out to reset it.  I did notice the 31P changes to 31s.

What am I doing wrong and what functionality should I expect if I ever get it right.
I like the controller functioning as the primary controller to the MW but I also like Vera controlling and scheduling the MW.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 19, 2013, 08:17:39 am
first of all, there is nothing you can do about the water temp not reflecting the pool temp if the pump isn't running. that's life. in reality, that is ideal in a freezing environment as the water in the pipe will freeze before the pool does, and this will trigger the freeze protection earlier.

as far as the difference in temp between vera and the multiwave, I don't know. as you found out, when the multiwave is joined to vera, the remote doesn't work so I have removed the multiwave from vera as I need the remote to work. It could be a rounding error between the display and what is communicated to vera.

with the older vera software, you could control the multiwave with vera and the remote like you would expect. the temp control didn't work though. at some point they broke this functionality. I'm sure if you file a bug report with vera they'll say it is a multiwave problem. it might be. they both blame each other.

so right now you choice is either control it with vera of with the remote. sorry. :(
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: karmabiker on July 19, 2013, 02:41:14 pm
Now vera here yet...  Just thinking.

How well does the vera interface work to run the pool if I join the 653 to the vera and let the remote sit on the shelf collecting dust until they figure out who broke what?  ...really surprised that vera and intermatic are still pointing fingers.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 19, 2013, 02:42:40 pm
it should work just fine, but if new owners don't complain it will never get fixed.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: karmabiker on July 19, 2013, 02:50:47 pm
Gotcha.

I wonder how many people are holding off on buying a vera (like me) until this gets resolved....
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 19, 2013, 02:51:40 pm
I'd be willing to bet that number isn't very large.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller - Now Working as Expected
Post by: Bb98 on July 26, 2013, 06:38:20 pm
Well happy days, it's working the way I would expect it to  :)

Vera is the primary controller and can control the Multi-Wave.
1) A _Pool Control thermostat shows up in Vera and displays the temperature (CurrentTemperature) - I renamed the control
2) Clicking the +/- buttons on the thermostat sets the set point - eventually, takes awhile to update (CurrentSetpoint and SetpointTarget)
3) When the thermostat showed up so did _Appliance Modules for each of the buttons:
    a) Button 1 - pool pump on/off
    b) Button 2 - pool light on/off
    c) Button 3 - booster pump (sweeper) on/off
    d) Button 4 - not configured
    e) Button 5 - pool heater on/off (fireman switch on pool heater)

The remote (PE953) is a secondary scene controller- each of its buttons controls the corresponding device as listed above.
The button numbers display in the remote's screen when it is pressed and the device turned on.
If the device is turned on/off through vera, the remote's screen is updated to show the status (button number displays or doesn't display)
The remote displays the temperature.

The remote and vera showed a temperature 1 degree less than the pool heater's readout.  Via the remote, I calibrated the Multi-Wave temperature adding 1 degree to the pool - now all three devices show the same temperature (still some lag in the updates and the pump needs to be running for any of the devices to get a good temperature - as expected)

What was the magic to make it work?
1) After getting the MultiWave all wired up, reset the remote and the MutliWave from the remote.
2) Bring the vera to the MultiWave and include the MultiWave as a device
3) Put the vera back in its "home" place - the thermostat and modules should show up in vera.
4) In vera, add the PE953 as a secondary controller
   a) Locate the PE953 close to vera
   b) On the vera goto Devices -> Add Devices -> Advanced Z-Wave devices -> Add One
   c) On the PE953 goto the Cntrl Option screen, select #3 Recv Net and Cfg - after several seconds the remote will display succesful ...
   d) ... and become a brick (stay lit, can't exit menu)
   e) take out a battery to reset the remote
   f) put the battery back in, remote will show 31-S in the upper corner
5) Take the remote close to the MultiWave, enter learn mode and select Include Device
6) Press the include button on the Multiwave
7) Walla - the multiwave is included to the remote and can now be controlled by the remote or vera

It was the last three steps that I was not getting at all (being a newbie and all -  ;) )
Vera support downgraded my vera - not sure that was necessary now that I know the steps (but will test that well after the celebration ends).

For tonight - we're celebrating with some cold suds by the pool and we'll be flipping pumps and lights on and off throughout the night!

Oh and as added bonus, plug for SQRemote HD, - I can do all the above from my iPhone / iPad (but they aren't water proof  :D )
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 27, 2013, 01:14:15 pm
yeah!

I think part of your success is due to the fact that your multiwave is running older fw. version 31 is one version behind. iirc with 32, I don't get those options to include a device after adding it as a secondary controller, but I'd have to do the process again to be sure.

what version of fw are you running on your vera? what do you mean that vera had to downgrade you (zwave fw or regular fw?)?

Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Bb98 on July 30, 2013, 03:43:31 am

Micase Support said ...

"I've downgraded the z-wave firmware on your Vera unit because as far as I know you need to have version 2.78 installed in order for the PE953 to work correctly."
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 30, 2013, 08:09:11 am

Micase Support said ...

"I've downgraded the z-wave firmware on your Vera unit because as far as I know you need to have version 2.78 installed in order for the PE953 to work correctly."

thanks for the clarification. What fw are you running on vera?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Bb98 on August 04, 2013, 08:16:37 am
Sorry for delayed response - been out of the country for the last week.

The verea firmware is 1.5.622
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on August 05, 2013, 07:48:42 am
MultiWave v31 works as described by Bb98. You must downgrade the Z-Wave firmware to 2.78 before including the PE953 remote. Once the 953 is joined, you can revert the firmware. This has to do with Z-Wave's Secondary Inclusion Server (SIS) implementation. v32 has apparently broken this. I am hoping to be proven wrong.

MCV can modify your Vera implementation so the temp control works well.
Title: Update on PE653RC 3.2 Firmeware
Post by: blueman2 on August 05, 2013, 01:27:39 pm
I talked to Intermatic tech support today.  Man, are they ever great!  Their lead support guy on the PE653 spent about 30 minutes talking me though all the features in 3.2.  And it was on his vacation day!  He knew everything!

Here is some more detail on the Service Countdown Timer Mode added in V3.2 firmware.  It allows you to turn a variable speed pump connected to the PE653RC on or off without access to the remote control  Great feature for pool maintenance people.  Press the 1 button on the control box (not the remote) for about 5 seconds.  If the pumps was on, you just press 1 again and it will turn off.   If the pool pump was off, the light will start to blink, then press 1 for 1 hour pump time, 2 for 2 hour pump time, etc.  Up to 5 hours run time can be programmed. 

Also, he said the new 5043 Valve Controller will be coming out end of this year.  It will be controlled by the RS485 port.  It will provide 4 valve actuator connections: 2 for pool/spa controls, 1 for water feature, and 1 for solar control.  This will free up circuit 4 which had been used for pool/spa control.  Also, the unit will add control relay for gas heater.  This will free up circuit 5 which was used for heater control.  If you use a VSP, you now will have 3 completely free relays on your PE653 to use for other features!  (circuit 1 is free since using VSP, circuit 4,5 are free as mentioned above.  Circuit 2 can be used for spa blower, circuit 3 for pool cleaner).  I am definitely going to buy the 5043 when it comes out.


Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on August 05, 2013, 04:22:10 pm
blueman2,

Great report! The new valve controller sounds perfect plus many of us will appreciate getting some of the precious five relays under user control.

Question: Do you have the new firmware working with Vera? Can you still use the PE953 handheld remote while the PE653 is connected to Vera?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mr crewcab on August 29, 2013, 11:53:53 am
Just did the install with version 3.2, everything mated up OK but with a vfd pump usefulness is very limited.

I did not get the thermostat for the heater to show up. has anyone had it show up with version 3.2?

It just gave me a point that is on when the heater is on but no setpoint

Kevin R
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on September 23, 2013, 01:17:17 pm
Since the beginning of my time looking at this solution, I was always first drawn to MCV due to the community and willingness of developers to work to mend these tools together.  The only Z-Wave controller company that I thought was close to competing was HomeSeer but the price point was also a big factor.  Now that HomeSeer has released the HomeTroller Zee, I am wondering if I shouldn't take a harder look at them and how their interface interprets the Pool Commander/Multiwave.  Anyone experience those two together before?

http://www.homeseer.com/support/newsletters/current-promo.htm (http://www.homeseer.com/support/newsletters/current-promo.htm)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on December 06, 2013, 09:11:08 pm
New Firmware V3.3 is out for the PE653RC.  Just put on their website this week.  But they have not updated any of their materials yet to show what is included in v3.3  I am hoping for support of the upcoming 5043 valve controller via RS485.  This will allow solar control and other functions.

I have sent a note to Intermatic and will post when I hear. 

edit: heard back from Intermatic.  This is just a bug fix; no new features.  Now looking like early next year for the 5043 controller support. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mr crewcab on December 15, 2013, 01:30:56 pm
I have never seen any info as to what is available with vera integration. quite disappointing really, maybe there is just not enough vera users that would integrate into their pool control to produce anything useful.

2 phone calls to intermatic came up a bust. zero info as to what their unit is capable of doing with vera. " we are not sure, we have never tried using it with one of those"

Its so frustrating, the potential is huge with a little bit of direction.

If anyone is interested in what we ended up doing for integration with our VS3050 pump let me know and I will go through what we did.

KevinR
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on December 24, 2013, 11:02:16 am
Mr. Crewcab,
It is a shame that someone at Intermatic told you they have never tried it.  I have a long history of working between Intermatic and MCV.  Since the Multiwave first came out, I tried to get Intermatic to understand the value of looking past a controller just for the pool system.  They didn't seem to grasp the big picture.  I had sent their engineers a unit (which I let them keep as a gift of good will) and talked them through the setup over the phone.  Then I talked with someone at MCV who tested my equipment over the phone and tried to collect data to expose the multiswitch and temp controls.  I even met several times face to face with Intermatic engineers, product reps, and sales reps.  I really couldn't get the MCV and Intermatic folks to work directly with each other and I got burned out as a middle man in hopes of getting controls I could resale to customers.  The dream has faded and I have moved on content with limited controls that work but are not intuitive.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: roquej on January 02, 2014, 12:27:29 pm
Used the instructions provided by Bb98 (thank you!!) and got everything connected.  However, the thermostat is not working, as expected based on other comments. Called MCV support and they did not know about the issue.  They asked me to open a ticket. Not sure why is this issue not better understood...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Ndemarco on January 16, 2014, 10:55:31 pm
You'll have to read back a page on this thread. You can get the MultiWave and Vera to work together with some effort and persistence. Unless you have a solid understanding of Vera, opening a ticket with MCV is the fastest way to get the thermostat working. I am on MCV firmware 31 (3.1) and Vera's Z-Wave firmware 2.78. Understand, Z-Wave firmware version is different from the Vera's overall device firmware version.

Unfortunately, you've got a lot of time in front of you reading, sitting on your haunches with a small phillips screwdriver and posting a request to MCV.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: persimmonx on February 14, 2014, 02:22:15 pm
Hi All,

I'm replacing my pool pump and am thinking of inteliflo. I need a pool pump that can be nicely integrated with Vera. Any advice on pool pump and pool controller.

My current pool pump is single speed and I can control running time based on water temperature, heater, spa, etc through X10 and Vera. The pool pump is dead and I need to change it.

Thank you
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: BulldogLowell on February 14, 2014, 02:36:54 pm
get a variable speed for sure.  It saves tons of electricity
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: persimmonx on February 14, 2014, 04:37:09 pm
I'm probably going with variable speed, but which one and how to interface with Vera, as I have my current system nicely integrated with home automation.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: niharmehta on February 16, 2014, 03:58:20 am
Hi All,

I'm replacing my pool pump and am thinking of inteliflo. I need a pool pump that can be nicely integrated with Vera. Any advice on pool pump and pool controller.

My current pool pump is single speed and I can control running time based on water temperature, heater, spa, etc through X10 and Vera. The pool pump is dead and I need to change it.

Thank you

The VS pumps are a no brainer.  I saved about $90/M in electricity when I switched.
I have the Intelliflo and am in the process of upgrading my old Aqualink RS to an iAqualink IQ-900RS. The  newer Aqualink can run in an Pentair emulation mode to natively control the VS without the Intellicom bridge.

  To integrate the Aqualink with Vera, you can use the Autelis systems to connect to the Aqualink from your LAN.

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: bratcliff on February 18, 2014, 09:45:49 pm
@persimmonx- What type of pool controller do you currently use that works with your Vera?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: tzontchev on March 14, 2014, 09:01:19 am
@persimmonx- What type of pool controller do you currently use that works with your Vera?

Is there any other more user friendly pool and pool heater controller available on the market for European z-wave Vera Lite available on the market?  Any help will be greatly appreciated.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: PJJP on March 22, 2014, 06:27:28 pm
  To integrate the Aqualink with Vera, you can use the Autelis systems to connect to the Aqualink from your LAN.

I just ordered the
Pool Control for Jandy/Zodiac
http://www.autelis.com/pool-control-for-jandy-zodiac.html

Thanks for the the info. Been looking for something like this.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: persimmonx on April 08, 2014, 02:42:05 am
@bratcliff sorry for late response.

I use Elk 9100 X10 switch, which I bought years ago. I wouldn't recommend X10 for new systems.

I measure the pool temp using RFXCOM and set the running time accordingly.  I also check the pool pump current to make sure it was actually turned on.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: tzontchev on April 08, 2014, 10:07:21 am
Hi All,

I'm replacing my pool pump and am thinking of inteliflo. I need a pool pump that can be nicely integrated with Vera. Any advice on pool pump and pool controller.

My current pool pump is single speed and I can control running time based on water temperature, heater, spa, etc through X10 and Vera. The pool pump is dead and I need to change it.

Thank you


The VS pumps are a no brainer.  I saved about $90/M in electricity when I switched.
I have the Intelliflo and am in the process of upgrading my old Aqualink RS to an iAqualink IQ-900RS. The  newer Aqualink can run in an Pentair emulation mode to natively control the VS without the Intellicom bridge.

  To integrate the Aqualink with Vera, you can use the Autelis systems to connect to the Aqualink from your LAN.


This very good solution, but I think for the money I will be investing in a sloar DC Pump.  It is still too expensive in US, but I found the whole kit in Spain is around ?1900  http://renovablesdelsur.es/detalle/bombeo-solar/kit-de-bombas-solares/kit-bomba-de-piscina-solar/452/426  There is no filtration during the night, but it could run up to 12 hours a day. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: persimmonx on April 11, 2014, 06:30:32 pm

Solar DC pump is the best. I did research for a while but I didn't find a good solution in US. For some reason, it is very expensive here. I was thinking of ordering from Alibaba. But you never know what you get from China.

If you have more info, I appreciate if you share.

Thanks.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: tzontchev on April 13, 2014, 08:01:21 am

Solar DC pump is the best. I did research for a while but I didn't find a good solution in US. For some reason, it is very expensive here. I was thinking of ordering from Alibaba. But you never know what you get from China.

If you have more info, I appreciate if you share.

Thanks.

I did spend some time on Alibaba, and I see that most of the pumps coming from there are the same that the retailers are offering.  So far I found that Lorentz is the best on the market.  I did contact the representatives and they told me for Canada it will cost me around $8 000- $10 000.  It is crazy.  The biggest problem with Alibaba is that the solar panels are big and cost lots of money for shipping.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: persimmonx on April 13, 2014, 03:09:35 pm

Solar DC pump is the best. I did research for a while but I didn't find a good solution in US. For some reason, it is very expensive here. I was thinking of ordering from Alibaba. But you never know what you get from China.

If you have more info, I appreciate if you share.

Thanks.

I did spend some time on Alibaba, and I see that most of the pumps coming from there are the same that the retailers are offering.  So far I found that Lorentz is the best on the market.  I did contact the representatives and they told me for Canada it will cost me around $8 000- $10 000.  It is crazy.  The biggest problem with Alibaba is that the solar panels are big and cost lots of money for shipping.

you don't need the solar panel. You just need the motor. You can buy solar panels locally.
Wow, I didn't know Lorentz  is so expensive. There is a company in Florida that offers solar pool pumps http://www.sunrayus.com/ (http://www.sunrayus.com/). I don't know how much they cost though. This one sells Lorentz pool pumps http://www.floridasolarpump.com/ (http://www.floridasolarpump.com/)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: tzontchev on April 16, 2014, 11:22:03 am

Solar DC pump is the best. I did research for a while but I didn't find a good solution in US. For some reason, it is very expensive here. I was thinking of ordering from Alibaba. But you never know what you get from China.

If you have more info, I appreciate if you share.

Thanks.

I did spend some time on Alibaba, and I see that most of the pumps coming from there are the same that the retailers are offering.  So far I found that Lorentz is the best on the market.  I did contact the representatives and they told me for Canada it will cost me around $8 000- $10 000.  It is crazy.  The biggest problem with Alibaba is that the solar panels are big and cost lots of money for shipping.

you don't need the solar panel. You just need the motor. You can buy solar panels locally.
Wow, I didn't know Lorentz  is so expensive. There is a company in Florida that offers solar pool pumps http://www.sunrayus.com/ (http://www.sunrayus.com/). I don't know how much they cost though. This one sells Lorentz pool pumps http://www.floridasolarpump.com/ (http://www.floridasolarpump.com/)

I do not need it for North America, but one way or the other it is better than VS pump for the money. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on November 13, 2014, 10:30:34 am
Well, Intermatic has finally release the new P5043ME controller board that provides control of solar, chlorine generator, 2 heaters, and all the valves you want!  In fact, they have renamed and repackaged the entire PE653RC system around it. I no longer see any firmware updates, so I wonder if they have abandoned the older PE653RC hardware?  There seems to be an implication that the PE653RC is somehow newer hardware, but I do not see any physical changes. 

Their old product page is gone now.  here is link to new systems. 

http://www.homesettings.com/en/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Electronic_Controls/MultiWave.aspx (http://www.homesettings.com/en/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Electronic_Controls/MultiWave.aspx)
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on November 13, 2014, 01:27:21 pm
the expansion module is just an addon to the pe653/pe953 so I suspect nothing has really changed.

I'm glad they finally got around to releasing it, though. They promised it 2+ years ago.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on December 03, 2014, 01:07:38 am
new 3.4 Firmware is now up on their site under resources tab. 

http://www.intermatic.com/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Electronic_Controls/MultiWave/MultiWave_Basic.aspx

Still no word on where to buy the p5043ME.  It is not available even on their own online store.  Very odd. 

edit: and here is the updated User Manual with the new features:

http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Intermatic/Documentation/Pool%20and%20Spa/Electronic%20Controls/MultiWave/MultiWave%20Quickstart%20Guide.ashx

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on December 03, 2014, 08:37:53 am
would it kill them to add some release notes?  :(

it is interesting that the p5043me has a usb port on it for updates. that is nice.

as for the availability of the p5043me, just look at the 3.4 fw release date. I think they are waiting for 2014 to release it. :D
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on December 03, 2014, 10:44:12 am
Yeah, I love this controller, but Intermatic appears to be a totally bush league company in terms of their operations.  Also, the guy I was dealing with in the past who was wonderful and extremely knowledgeable is gone.  No longer with the company.  And now no one at the company returns any emails or web form contact requests.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Radjin on January 27, 2015, 09:22:16 pm
I have a 400k heater, two variable-speed pumps, 8 valves and two lights I would like to control. Can anyone describe what control is available with Intermatic's unit. All of this is Pentair equipment that currently runs on the 1st gen i10+3D remote equipment that is failing.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: rstrouse on January 27, 2015, 09:32:08 pm
Autelis makes a unit that will communicate with your i10+3D and I have formulated a plugin that exposes all the devices attached to it.  I assume you got one of the old Mobiletouch controllers.  So far I am pretty happy with it.

http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,30275.msg216314.html#msg216314

Autelis device
http://www.autelis.com/pool-control-for-pentair-intellitouch-easytouch.html
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on January 28, 2015, 08:57:48 am
I have a 400k heater, two variable-speed pumps, 8 valves and two lights I would like to control. Can anyone describe what control is available with Intermatic's unit. All of this is Pentair equipment that currently runs on the 1st gen i10+3D remote equipment that is failing.

the multiwave won't be able to handle all that equipment. it can only control one variable speed pump (poorly), so one of the pumps would only be on/off. the lights are easy, but there aren't enough circuits to handle the eight valves (one would be the limit).

for example:

primary variable speed pump controlled by the serial lines
circuit 1: second pump
circuit 2: pool/spa valve
circuit 3: lights
circuit 4: heat control

and your out of circuits.

you'll need to look elsewhere. sorry.

edit: I forgot about the valve
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: billrector on February 01, 2015, 09:11:16 am
While trying to pair my 953 to my z-wave stick today, the 953 locked up.  All I have now is a backlit handheld.  I have removed the batteries for several minutes and the same thing happens when I reinstall the batteries.

Anyone else have this issue?  While I'm at it, I don't suppose anyone is controlling an Intermatic CA3750 with the 953 in a two switch configuration?  That does not appear to work either.

Has anyone figured out what firmware version 3.4 from Intermatic brings to the table?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on February 01, 2015, 11:43:16 am
I have a 400k heater, two variable-speed pumps, 8 valves and two lights I would like to control. Can anyone describe what control is available with Intermatic's unit. All of this is Pentair equipment that currently runs on the 1st gen i10+3D remote equipment that is failing.

Actually, the new Intermatic system can handle all of this with the newly released P5043ME module. 

http://www.intermatic.com/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Electronic_Controls/MultiWave/MultiWave_ECS.aspx

Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on February 02, 2015, 09:00:08 am
I have a 400k heater, two variable-speed pumps, 8 valves and two lights I would like to control. Can anyone describe what control is available with Intermatic's unit. All of this is Pentair equipment that currently runs on the 1st gen i10+3D remote equipment that is failing.

Actually, the new Intermatic system can handle all of this with the newly released P5043ME module. 

http://www.intermatic.com/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Electronic_Controls/MultiWave/MultiWave_ECS.aspx

I have serious doubts about their claims based on their previous track record. Plus, where can you actually buy the p5043me? I can't find it for sale anywhere.

Additionally, as far I I know you still can't control multiple variable speed pumps with our without the expansion module and their existing support for variable speed pumps isn't that great. Although I haven't tried the 3.4 fw to see if it has been improved.

I still contend that the multiwave was never designed with complex pool systems like Radjin's in mind. But for simpler systems like mine (single pump, one light, one heater, no valves, no solar) it works pretty well and is priced very reasonably.


Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on February 02, 2015, 11:19:39 am

I have serious doubts about their claims based on their previous track record. Plus, where can you actually buy the p5043me? I can't find it for sale anywhere.

Additionally, as far I I know you still can't control multiple variable speed pumps with our without the expansion module and their existing support for variable speed pumps isn't that great. Although I haven't tried the 3.4 fw to see if it has been improved.

I still contend that the multiwave was never designed with complex pool systems like Radjin's in mind. But for simpler systems like mine (single pump, one light, one heater, no valves, no solar) it works pretty well and is priced very reasonably.

Well said.  More to the point, I agree that I would not buy the Intermatic solution for a complex pool if starting from scratch.  But now that I have one and my pool is getting more complex (will be adding a dedicated spa pump rather than sharing with a pool pump), I am going to give the new module a try.  The do CLAIM to be able to now support 2 VSPs.  And I can integrated my Solar better into a single system.  We shall see!!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on February 02, 2015, 11:29:07 am
I was not aware of the support for 2 vsp. If true, that is encouraging as it means they have hopefully put some effort into improving support for them.

But they have been promising support for solar on the multiwave for 3+ years now. :(

Please let us know how your upgrade works out. I'm still trying to find someplace to buy the p5043me...



I have serious doubts about their claims based on their previous track record. Plus, where can you actually buy the p5043me? I can't find it for sale anywhere.

Additionally, as far I I know you still can't control multiple variable speed pumps with our without the expansion module and their existing support for variable speed pumps isn't that great. Although I haven't tried the 3.4 fw to see if it has been improved.

I still contend that the multiwave was never designed with complex pool systems like Radjin's in mind. But for simpler systems like mine (single pump, one light, one heater, no valves, no solar) it works pretty well and is priced very reasonably.

Well said.  More to the point, I agree that I would not buy the Intermatic solution for a complex pool if starting from scratch.  But now that I have one and my pool is getting more complex (will be adding a dedicated spa pump rather than sharing with a pool pump), I am going to give the new module a try.  The do CLAIM to be able to now support 2 VSPs.  And I can integrated my Solar better into a single system.  We shall see!!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on February 02, 2015, 11:40:26 am
Oh, and yes, I have similarly failed to find ANYWHERE that sells the new module.  But it does purportedly support 2 VSPs, solar, chlorine generator (only 1 brand), and many water features and valves. 

Very odd for them to announce this thing yet not to have it available anywhere to buy 2 months later!!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: eddie on March 08, 2015, 07:50:35 pm
Be careful updating to the 3.4 Intermatic Firmware. I did and now I have lost control to the Pool Controller.   ???
The Controller will link with Vera and the devices will show up, but clicking the on/off buttons does nothing. 
I am running the 1.5.622 Vera firmware.



 
new 3.4 Firmware is now up on their site under resources tab. 

http://www.intermatic.com/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Electronic_Controls/MultiWave/MultiWave_Basic.aspx

Still no word on where to buy the p5043ME.  It is not available even on their own online store.  Very odd. 

edit: and here is the updated User Manual with the new features:

http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Intermatic/Documentation/Pool%20and%20Spa/Electronic%20Controls/MultiWave/MultiWave%20Quickstart%20Guide.ashx
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on March 09, 2015, 08:58:57 am
Be careful updating to the 3.4 Intermatic Firmware. I did and now I have lost control to the Pool Controller.   ???
The Controller will link with Vera and the devices will show up, but clicking the on/off buttons does nothing. 
I am running the 1.5.622 Vera firmware.

did you try resetting the multiwave back to the defaults and starting over?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on May 02, 2015, 07:55:29 am
FYI, I've moved my dad's house over to SmartThings from a VeraLite.  The Developer community there is also working out a Pool Commander/MultiWave solution.  SmartThings is more based on phone app control than a web interface.  I kinda like it better.  They don't have full control for Pool/Spa mode or Temp settings but they are already as far along as Vera and the programming seems easier to understand to me.  Again, you would have to dig through the developer community to get the plugin working.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on May 02, 2015, 10:27:55 am
Thanks for the update, mcoulter.  Please do let us know how they progress. I have been curious about SmartThings.  They seem to be the up and coming leader in this space. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dinosinc on May 04, 2015, 02:58:20 pm
Be careful updating to the 3.4 Intermatic Firmware. I did and now I have lost control to the Pool Controller.   ???
The Controller will link with Vera and the devices will show up, but clicking the on/off buttons does nothing. 
I am running the 1.5.622 Vera firmware.



 
new 3.4 Firmware is now up on their site under resources tab. 

http://www.intermatic.com/Products/Pool_and_Spa/Electronic_Controls/MultiWave/MultiWave_Basic.aspx

Still no word on where to buy the p5043ME.  It is not available even on their own online store.  Very odd. 

edit: and here is the updated User Manual with the new features:

http://www.intermatic.com/~/media/Intermatic/Documentation/Pool%20and%20Spa/Electronic%20Controls/MultiWave/MultiWave%20Quickstart%20Guide.ashx

have you gotten 3.4 working ?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dfad1469 on May 13, 2015, 08:59:38 pm
I am curious about this to. I just recently resurrected my Vera, upgraded it to the latest UI7 and upgraded my PE653 and PE953 to firmware 3.4. I can't get everything to work together properly. Here is what I have done:

-I did a full reset of the system, both PE653 and PE953.
-I included the PE653 with my Vera Lite. I could see the PE653 as a thermostat and 5 switches for each of the control ports.
-I then did a controller copy to set the PE953 as a secondary controller. It shows up under the device section.

Here is where I am stuck. The PE953 says "Out of Range" and there seems to be no way to tell it to control the PE653 through the existing network. From previous forum posts, it seems that this used to be possible by an "Include Device" option that is no longer available on the PE953 when it is set as a secondary controller. I do know it is possible for PE953 to talk to the PE653 as I can set scenes on the PE953 and then it will turn the PE653 on. However, there is no way to tell the PE653 that it is in SPA mode instead of Pool, that it has a deadman switch, or that it has a two speed pump. This is dangerous as you can set both high and low speed and burn out the pump!

Am I missing something?  This sucks that it used to work and now no longer does.

Any advice?

Thanks,

-Joe
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: shoeboo on May 18, 2015, 08:50:51 am
I only recently installed the Multiwave, and mine is still on 3.3 but I was getting stuck on the same step as you. Here is how I was able to complete it:
-I did a full reset of the system, both PE653 and PE953.
-I included the PE653 with my Vera Lite. I could see the PE653 as a thermostat and 5 switches for each of the control ports.
-included my PE953 using receive net, I now had a scene controller.

I was also stuck at including device as it disabled on PE953 set as secondary.

I then backed-up my z-wave network from Vera and then shifted my controller to PE953 (receive net again). This made the PE953 primary, which allowed me to include the PE653 to the PE953 and switch the primary screen.

I didn't run into any problems with PE953 as primary, but I was a little afraid I would eventually so I tried to controller shift back to Vera. This cleared all my z-wave devices and was adding them back as new devices which broke the scenes I had created on vera. It did set the PE953 back as secondary so I then restored the z-wave back-up I had just created and everything is working as I hoped.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: JMack89427 on June 04, 2015, 08:40:47 am
I just installed my Multiwave this past weekend, replacing a faulty mechanical timer, and am also very new to Vera.  I have a very simple setup: 1 Single Speed pump, 1 Raypak heater, and 1 pool light.  I have only have the pool pump connected at this point as I'm still finishing up the wiring heater and the light.  My main question is why the Pool Controller device shows up as an HVAC thermostat in the web interface but as a light switch in the app?

I have already figured out that I won't be able to control my heater set point via the Multiwave, but I would like to be able to see the pool temperature from the app.  Is this possible? 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: roquej on June 04, 2015, 08:55:56 am
@JMack89427,

I also have the Multiwave and my temperature control works the same in both the web interface and the mobile application.  You might want to call support.

You can control the heater setpoint temperature, but only if you set the "Fireman SW" parameter to at least 0 minutes.  You find this parameter by pressing P/S and Enter together, then going to the PE653 Option screen.  The default is OFF, which only allows you to turn the heater off/on via circuit #5 (button 5). 

By the way, I was told there is a new PE653/PE953 firmware coming out in the next two week that should make the Multiwave work much better with z-wave controllers.  I hope this is the case, specially the ability to control VS pumps.

Hope this helps.

JP
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: JMack89427 on June 04, 2015, 09:28:22 am
@JMack89427,

I also have the Multiwave and my temperature control works the same in both the web interface and the mobile application.  You might want to call support.

You can control the heater setpoint temperature, but only if you set the "Fireman SW" parameter to at least 0 minutes.  You find this parameter by pressing P/S and Enter together, then going to the PE653 Option screen.  The default is OFF, which only allows you to turn the heater off/on via circuit #5 (button 5). 

By the way, I was told there is a new PE653/PE953 firmware coming out in the next two week that should make the Multiwave work much better with z-wave controllers.  I hope this is the case, specially the ability to control VS pumps.

Hope this helps.

JP

Thanks for the quick response.  My Multiwave is still on 3.1 and I'm unable to get the PE953 to connect as a secondary controller.  It is nice to know that I'll be able to control the temperature once I get it hooked up.  Is it possible that I see the pool controller as a light switch because I don't have the heater wired yet?

I sent a request to Intermatic to figure out how to update the firmware as I don't really want to spend the $50 on the z-wave stick if I don't have to.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: roquej on June 04, 2015, 09:39:38 am
Glad to help.  I had a heck of a time getting it to work, but now it works great.  A few more hints:

- Sorry, but you will find there is no way to update the firmware without their z-wave stick.
- Look at this thread: http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,24372.0.html.  It was very helpful when I was going through my configuration.
- Will suggest you stay with the 3.1 until the new firmware comes out. You will really not gain anything new now.

Good luck.

JP
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on June 05, 2015, 07:02:20 am
According to information I got through some contacts, and supported by this link, Intermatic is working with BeHome247 to have full operation of the Multiwave/Pool Commander.  I'm not sure what the hardware is that BeHome247 is using.  It looks similar to a veralite-g.  So I assume they have their own plug-in?  I'm going to try and contact the new local Intermatic Rep to see what is going on here.

https://www.facebook.com/BeHome247/photos/a.209593852474335.33596.209565549143832/630700873696962/?type=1&theater

Scroll down here to see their controller: http://www.behome247security.com/
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: JMack89427 on June 05, 2015, 11:58:32 am
That's awesome news!  I'm glad to hear Intermatic is still working on this and can't wait to get my setup working the way I expect!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on June 06, 2015, 06:56:48 pm
I'm now being told that Intermatic is working closely to make this work primarily for BeHome247 but the code would be available to all within 30 days.  I'm going to try to make a direct call to the guy from Intermatic that can confirm this for me this week.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: mcoulter on June 09, 2015, 02:36:22 pm
Ok, I talked directly with my Intermatic engineer today and here is what I know (and hopefully I'm allowed to share :) ). 

They are working directly with MIOS to ensure their product will be working and anticipate a software release in early August that will have everything operational via Vera. 

They are also releasing a new actuator controller that will control 3 units so you can have one for solar and two heat pumps.  This frees up circuits 4 and 5 to be used as you wish.

Also the have a nice online tool www.checkfrank.com where you can go through a wizard of the desired use of your pool and it will suggest the proper equipment needed and include wiring diagrams for each circuit. 

And that is what I know for now...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: JMack89427 on June 11, 2015, 08:04:07 am
Thanks for the update!  I can't wait to see what they come up with!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: JMack89427 on July 02, 2015, 02:34:58 pm
So I finally have everything wired and working through the remote for my Multiwave so I decided to configure everything in my Vera Edge.  I am able to successfully add the pool controller itself, getting the 5 switches and 1 pool controller device, and the remote, which gives me the scene controller.  What I'm having an issue with is reconnecting the remote to the Multiwave as per the instructions.  I see the 31S in the top right corner but no longer get the include device option.  I reset the remote after adding it to Vera per the instructions but can't seem to progress.

Any help would be appreciated!!!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: JMack89427 on July 25, 2015, 10:22:35 pm
Well, after spending some time working on this with no luck, and no help from either Intermatic or Vera support, I upgraded the firmware to 3.4.  I'm still having the same problem with not being able to include the remote back to the PE653, I now don't see a current temperature under the device...

Does anyone have any ideas or possibly even still have the 3.3 firmware somewhere?  I can't find it anywhere.  Thanks in advance!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: shoeboo on August 06, 2015, 10:27:07 am
Well, after spending some time working on this with no luck, and no help from either Intermatic or Vera support, I upgraded the firmware to 3.4.  I'm still having the same problem with not being able to include the remote back to the PE653, I now don't see a current temperature under the device...

Does anyone have any ideas or possibly even still have the 3.3 firmware somewhere?  I can't find it anywhere.  Thanks in advance!

I was also stuck at including remote as it disabled on PE953 set as secondary.

I then backed-up my z-wave network from Vera and then shifted my controller to PE953 (receive net again). This made the PE953 primary, which allowed me to include the PE653 to the PE953. I then switched the primary screen on the remote to multiwave (PE653) so it gave me full control of the pool again.

I didn't run into any problems with PE953 as primary and Vera as secondary, but I was a little afraid I would eventually so I tried to controller shift back to Vera. This cleared all my z-wave devices and was adding them back as new devices which broke the scenes I had created on vera. It did set the PE953 back as secondary so I then restored the z-wave back-up I had just created.

It is convoluted, but it is the only way I was able to have multiwave part of vera network and still be able to use handheld remote.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: ssubo on August 10, 2015, 04:09:17 pm
Hi everyone. Any updates on this new release?

Ok, I talked directly with my Intermatic engineer today and here is what I know (and hopefully I'm allowed to share :) ). 

They are working directly with MIOS to ensure their product will be working and anticipate a software release in early August that will have everything operational via Vera. 

They are also releasing a new actuator controller that will control 3 units so you can have one for solar and two heat pumps.  This frees up circuits 4 and 5 to be used as you wish.

Also the have a nice online tool www.checkfrank.com where you can go through a wizard of the desired use of your pool and it will suggest the proper equipment needed and include wiring diagrams for each circuit. 

And that is what I know for now...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: shoeboo on September 13, 2015, 01:05:14 pm
Looks like the newest Vera update recreated/renamed all the Multiwave relays, it also broke my scenes. Not sure if anything was improved.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on November 28, 2015, 11:32:29 am
I've used the procedure earlier in the thread. A bit cumbersome, but it has worked for me.

I also had everything reconfigured with an update. Eventually it all worked out but did require rewriting things.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: atlantauser on December 01, 2015, 01:07:29 pm
I don't want to hijack this thread, but I can't tell if this issue is new or related to how I'm trying to join Vera to the intermatic controller.

I installed the Multi-Wave controller setup a few months ago. For a while I tried to get it working with my home alarm system (Lynx 5200), but that just doesn't want to work at all.. So anyways I got a Vera Edge yesterday.

I had a few scheduled operations for the pump and lights in the PE953 and a bunch of outlets & switches (indoor and outdoor) also included to the PE953. So I did a "Copy from Primary" on Vera, and a "Send Net & Cfg" from the PE953 remote to the Vera and made it Secondary. That seemed to work pretty well and a bunch of stuff came in.

For the PE653/PE953 I got a "Pool Control" item that tries to show temperature (but only shows Air, not Pool temp). I also got 5 switches called "Low Speed Timed", "Hi Speed Timed", "Cleaner Timed", "Lights Timed" and "Spa Jets". None of these work to turn on the relays in the PE653.

What I ran into that was really weird last night and this morning was related to my schedules. Relay #4 controls the Pool Light and some GFCI outlets around the pool. Relay #5 controls the Light Posts on the gates around the pool. Relay #4 comes on from 6:30-8:30pm, and Relay #5 comes on from 6:30-10pm. When these relays were turned on, they started turning on/off randomly. Sometimes every few seconds, and sometimes not for several minutes. I noticed this same behavior on the Main Pump this morning during it's schedule.

It looked to me like the controllers/schedule were fighting for control. Because I didn't want to burn out lights and my pump I disabled all control from Vera.

Has anyone else seen this type of behavior?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on December 02, 2015, 07:40:14 pm
No, the only unusual thing I have is on one system that only includes the pump and pool light, switches 2 and 3 come on with the pool pump. Turning them off is temporary. But nothing is connected to them so no harm.  On my other system with devices connected to all 4 connections plus the pool heater I have no ghost operation at all.

I hesitate to do anything with either controller as long as they operate. Downgrading Vera in order to add the pool controller and remote is a pain in the ass. I certainly hope in a future update they make that process easier.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dinosinc on February 02, 2016, 05:46:15 pm
I wonder if instamatic will ever release an update  ???
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on February 02, 2016, 05:58:36 pm
Who knows. I do plan on installing whatever update is available this summer.  I am now having the ghost operation on both systems. The one using UI7 is not able to control the pool light via Vera, but can via the remote.  Strange functionality.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dinosinc on February 23, 2016, 11:54:33 am
maybe now that the Vera Plus is out the will release a update...
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Hariiesmarrttin on March 19, 2016, 06:10:08 pm
I am interested to buy it . can someone tell me how can i get ?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: 50Pesos on April 02, 2016, 12:39:22 am
So Far I'd say save your money. Total dissappointment
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: JMack89427 on April 05, 2016, 03:51:20 pm
So Far I'd say save your money. Total dissappointment

I don't know about that.  Sure, there are quirks but I'm happy with mine so far.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: atlantauser on March 06, 2017, 07:58:17 pm
So Far I'd say save your money. Total dissappointment

I don't know about that.  Sure, there are quirks but I'm happy with mine so far.

Can you take some screenshots of your configuration and of it working? Perhaps the Advanced Settings of the devices? Mine still doesn't show correctly...
Title: Fix for out of range
Post by: dkeefe on August 06, 2017, 12:29:18 pm
Like others here, my multiwave remote started showing out of range out of the blue a few months ago after years of trouble free operation. Finally I decided I'd had enough and looked into the issue. Changing the batteries didn't fix the problem so I suspected that it was a bad connection somewhere with the zwave module. I have the zwave module (also called the antenna) remote mounted to improve the range so I looked there.

The first test I did was to remove the cable between the antenna and the multiwave control box and plug it back into the control box. This worked! Next I examined the connections but they looked ok but I cleaned them with some rubbing alcohol anyways, plugged them cables back in and turned it on. Lo and behold it was working again! Yay!

I suspect there was a bad connection somewhere with the cables and antenna and merely unplugging them and plugging them back in was enough to clean it up. But contact cleaner or rubbing alcohol certainly won't hurt.

So tl;dr: try unplugging and replugging the antenna. If you don't have a remote mounted antenna, remove the top cover and re-seat it. The zwave module is mounted to the underside of the cover and removing it has the same effect.

Good luck!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on August 07, 2017, 03:48:17 pm
Just had my Veralite fail and upgraded to VeraPlus.  Unfortunately none of the programming would carry over as the VeraLite no longer worked.  Havent updated the pool controller in 3 or 4 years as all was working okay. Anyone have an idea of how to include the pool controller and remote now in UI7 with VeraPlus? One thing is I can no longer move the VeraPlus close to the pool controller.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on August 07, 2017, 04:00:13 pm
I've always had to reset the multiwave to factory defaults in order to get it to connect to the vera.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: JMack89427 on August 09, 2017, 11:45:07 am
I'm removing this at the request of Frank.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on August 09, 2017, 12:56:22 pm
mind posting it?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on August 09, 2017, 01:07:04 pm
Or emailing it? 

Thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 02, 2018, 01:06:17 pm
Another update:

My disappearing multiwave fix (see above) was short lived. I got sick of having to reboot the multiwave every few days to control it with the remote so I bit the bullet and updated it from 3.3 to 3.4. That was about a month ago and I haven't seen the dreaded out of range message since!

However it isn't all good news. I was able to add the receiver to my vera and control it but I was unable to get the remote to connect to either my vera or the receiver. It seems like others have run into this as well. Since I have rarely used the vera to control the pool I have decided to just use the multiwave independently from my vera network and forgo the ability to see and control the pool with my vera. Having the remote work reliably is more important me.

So good news and bad news. 3.4 doesn't require constant reboots to use the remote but it doesn't work with vera.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on June 02, 2018, 01:16:41 pm
Intermatic has a GREAT product, if only they would allow it to be great!  It is not a technical issue.  They have a firmware version 39 that allows full access to all functions of the PE653 by any z-wave controller.  But they have not released this version broadly, and will only install it themselves to avoid the firmware leaking publicly.  I had to send mine into them, wait about 3 weeks, and they sent it back.  They say it is for use use by property managers who need remote control, and it opens up every function of the PE653.  I am using it with an ISY994i, but it should work with any z-wave controller. 

This could be a great product, if only Intermatic would release this firmware broadly. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: Minnies on June 05, 2018, 08:11:49 am
Blue an what did you have to send in?  The entire system (wired in so quite difficult), the remote or something else. This seems to be what I need. Thanks for the insight.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on June 05, 2018, 12:23:40 pm
Had to send entire unit, PE653 and PE953.  I actually just decided to buy a used one off eBay to send in.  That way it was just a 1 day job to replace the entire thing. 

But I do not think they are doing this upgrade anymore.  It was meant for property managers and they used to have this on their pricelist.   But I do not see this anymore.  I was a beta tester, so cannot recall the price for the upgrade.  But it was pretty high.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 21, 2018, 11:26:06 am
blueman,

what version is your intermatic upgraded multiwave showing? does anyone know if 3.7.13 works correctly with vera?

thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on June 21, 2018, 05:48:43 pm
Mine shows V39 on both the controller and the remote. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 22, 2018, 07:55:20 am
thanks!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: GWNorth on June 23, 2018, 03:07:34 am
Intermatic has a GREAT product, if only they would allow it to be great!

If they don't 'allow' it to be great, then it isn't great. Providing a z-wave product without understanding what z-wave is for and how it is used is really pointless. For some reason, they chose to use z-wave as the protocol for communication between their hand-held remote and the main unit, but they never really intended that it play well with the rest of the z-wave universe, which was a massive mistake. Also, the form factor completely sucks. Who wants an exterior device mounted by a plastic bushing on top of an exterior electrical box, with no protection and physical stability for pressing the buttons on it, and no security for it from unwanted handling? It just totally misses the boat in so many ways. But I digress...

They have a firmware version 39 that allows full access to all functions of the PE653 by any z-wave controller.

When you say this, does it mean that one would have full control over the PE653's programming and control of a Pentair variable speed pump? Even when I had the PE653 fully paired with and accessible through my vera, I couldn't see any of the pump functions. It really was just a bad thermostat interface. 'Full access to all functions' would mean full control of the programmable pump, not just on and off. Please explain what you mean by 'full access to all functions'.

In my experience, the only way to control the pump was through the hand-held remote, and not through Vera. Are you saying that this firmware version 39 allows this?

But they have not released this version broadly, and will only install it themselves to avoid the firmware leaking publicly.

Why do they not want the firmware out in the public? This makes no sense. I've never heard of a company that didn't want the most up-to-date version of their software running on all of their devices. If this version of the software makes the unit live up to its potential, why not 'release it broadly' or have a program to get units already out in the field operating to their full potential?

It is this kind of craziness that results in people like myself being unable to recommend (or even use this damn device) and I have two of them!

Thank you for your contributions to this thread. The information so far has been greatly appreciated, even though very frustrating to hear.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on June 23, 2018, 12:28:30 pm
When you say this, does it mean that one would have full control over the PE653's programming and control of a Pentair variable speed pump? Even when I had the PE653 fully paired with and accessible through my vera, I couldn't see any of the pump functions. It really was just a bad thermostat interface. 'Full access to all functions' would mean full control of the programmable pump, not just on and off. Please explain what you mean by 'full access to all functions'.

In my experience, the only way to control the pump was through the hand-held remote, and not through Vera. Are you saying that this firmware version 39 allows this?


In Firmware v39, I have control over everything that can be done with the hand held device.   I can control:
 - turning on each of the 5 relays,
 - turning on each of the 4 speeds of the VSP,
 - what the VSP speeds should be (via z-wave parameters)
 - the schedule (on and off times) for the 5 relays and the 4 VSP speeds,
 - configuration parameters such as freeze control, temperature correction, use of 1 speed pump, 2 speed pump, pool cleaner, etc 
 - see current temperature for air, water, solar
 - set temp settings for Pool and Spa

Most are done via regular z-wave device but some settings are done via z-wave parameter settings.  I use an Insteon ISY to control it and have found there is nothing I cannot do via z-wave. 

There is really only one issue right now I have.  The Relays and Pump Speeds are not correctly updated on my ISY.  If I change a speed using the ISY, I see the change on my ISY.  But if I change speed using the remote control, it does not update on my ISY.  THe data is being sent by the PE653, but for some reason my ISY is not using the data.  The ISY team is working on a fix for this but not sure.  So what I do it poll the device every 5 minutes during the day to keep my ISY controller in synch.  So far, this has worked perfectly for me. 



Why do they not want the firmware out in the public? This makes no sense. I've never heard of a company that didn't want the most up-to-date version of their software running on all of their devices. If this version of the software makes the unit live up to its potential, why not 'release it broadly' or have a program to get units already out in the field operating to their full potential?

It is this kind of craziness that results in people like myself being unable to recommend (or even use this damn device) and I have two of them!

Thank you for your contributions to this thread. The information so far has been greatly appreciated, even though very frustrating to hear.

I really cannot speak for Intermatic, but I think they wanted to sell this firmware to people who manage properties (rental, hotels, etc) and did not want it to be a free upgrade.  So they made it so that you cannot do the upgrade yourself.  Must be done via JTAG interface inside the device. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 24, 2018, 08:17:35 am
blueman,

do the stop/start and mode buttons on the pump work when the multiwave is controlling the pump? earlier versions locked out the pump's control panel which meant if the pool guy wanted to stop the pump he needed the remote. obviously not ideal so I gave up on that idea.

also, I have the variable flow pump and when the multiwave was controlling it you lost the flow rate control and were only able to set the speed. I was ok with this but iirc you also lost the built in safety features in the pump (blocked suction, run dry, etc.).

thanks again!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on June 24, 2018, 11:54:38 am
@dkeefe,

When the multiwave is controlling the pump, you are not able at access any of the options on the pump's panel.  That is true whether using Vera/ISY or not.  Also true if you are using Pentair's own control computers.  That is just the way it works when any external controller is managing the pump. 

HOWEVER, starting with V34, Intermatic added the ability to turn the VSP pump on and off using the buttons on the PE653 (the control panel of the Multiwave, not the remote control) so that pool maintenance people can turn on the VSP without the remote.  To do this, you push button #1 and hold it for about 3-5 seconds.  It will then turn the pump on.  Hold it again for 3-5 seconds and it turns it off again.  As far as I know, this is an undocumented feature. 

As for flow rate pumps, I do not have one.  But since Multiwave only has settings for speed, I bet your are right about no flow rate control. However, Intermatic makes a big point out of saying they do not defeat any safety mode items on the pump, such as suction block.  Not sure about other like run dry.  I am getting out of my knowledge zone in these area.   
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 24, 2018, 02:36:05 pm
can they change the speed pump runs at with the buttons too?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: blueman2 on June 24, 2018, 02:38:09 pm
Good question!  I will have to test this.  I have only used button 1 to test.  But perhaps button 1 is speed 1, button 2 is speed 2, etc.  But I have never tried yet.  I will report back later when I test it.  Again, I think this was added in Firmware 3.4. 
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on June 25, 2018, 08:03:07 am
iirc the 4 buttons were supposed to control the 4 different speeds and that feature was added a long time ago.

give it a shot!
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: kmheid on July 07, 2018, 10:28:15 am
I heard that Frank left Intermatic (http://forum.micasaverde.com/index.php/topic,80897.msg381760.html#msg381760).  Has anyone had any luck getting version 39 of the firmware from Intermatic since Frank left? 
I bought more Intermatic equipment 2 years ago when Frank said the new firmware release was imminent and would unlock all functionality with Vera, but I am afraid now that without Frank there, it will never work right.  Intermatic does not seem to care about this product line, which is unfortunate, because it has so much potential.  If they are going to kill it, I wish they would at least give us an option to upgrade our devices first to get some use out of what we paid for and what they already developed.  Holding back the firmware only makes sense if they provide an option to purchase the upgrade.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 09, 2018, 08:46:08 am
I have a version labeled 3713 that isn't on the intermatic web site but I'm not sure if that is the same as 3.9. I haven't tried to flash it yet because I don't know if you can go back. If I know that it is possible t put 3.4 back on it I'd be willing to give it a shot.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on July 28, 2018, 05:46:33 pm
Hi, I just added a multiwave to my new veraplus.  I had a multiwave from years ago but never included it to my Vera.  I am running 3.4 on the Multiwave unit and all the devices show up in vera, but I cannot turn it on via Vera, but if I hit the button on the unit it turns on and shows up as on in Vera.  Then the unit turns off after 5 min??  @dkeefe can you help?  I also have a handheld remote with old firmware on it (3.1) and need to get it upgraded (was with my other unit).  I assume I need to find my CA87000 USB zwave thing?  THoughts?
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: dkeefe on July 30, 2018, 07:57:46 am
All reports indicate that 3.4 won't work with vera. I used 3.3 with my vera for many years until it stopped working reliably about 1 year ago for no reason. I now run 3.4 and it has been fine but I'm not using it with vera. I've basically given up hope that it will ever work.

If you want to use it with vera, you need to mythical 3.9 fw. sorry.
Title: Re: NEW MultiWave Pool Controller
Post by: aschwalb on July 30, 2018, 09:19:54 am
Thanks @dkeefe, I think I had come to the same conclusion.  I am going to try to go at from both fronts (Vera) and Intermatic (3.9).  Interestingly one of the times I tried to include the Multiwave it was NOT recognized as a pool controller (which didn't give me the thermostat control) but a generic device with 5 switches and it worked!.  I foolishly thought I could replicate this and now it only recognizes it as a Pool controller and fails.  This tells me that the 'normal' z-wave stuff works, but what is broken is special device Vera created for pool control.